1st page since when has natsu been faster than laxus? laxus>>natsu in speed so he is easily dodge his attacks. lol he was getting dominated by ig natsu and he was able to tank those attacks because of his imortality in which he doesnt have this tournament in anime and manga we have seen people who have immortality/high regeneration get trash by a stronger opponent but the have to power to regenerate. ig natsu>zeref.
2nd page no doesnt work that way 1. he wasnt on guard/surprise attack (kind like brandish did to august) 2. him being injuried does play a factor and he was vulnerable give bisca that chance she would erase lacarde the same way zeref did .
3rd page i got it confused with the 4th page and i already expalin that on the first page.
5th page wasnt instantous because we clearly see makarov able to react . plus this is a tournament where every1 is on their guard. laxus>>>>makarov and easily is dodge that attack. now show me a feat that will put laxus down. also that attack that trap natsu isnt gonna work laxus>>>>>>base natsu without POF
CQC-wise, Laxus isn't much faster than Natsu. Both were able to land hits on each other back in the Fighting Festival Arc. The only time Laxus is faster is when he uses Lightning Body but then he is intangible.
I agree it was a surprise attack. But that doesn't mean your durability goes from 100 to 0. Injury doesn't really factor much into durability than it does to endurance/stamina.
Makarov didn't really react though... Unless you're talking about how he got surprised. As for a feat that will put Laxus down...
What do you mean? Laxus was defeated by that attack from Hades, him not dying from it doesnt mean anything. Larcade didnt die from Zeref's attack either. So tell me, if injury/exhaustion dont matter, why isnt everyone oneshotted in every fight?
Of course it matters that he crawled to the guild, because it means he was too weak to walk. You arent seriously suggesting that defeating someone so incredibly weak that he cant even walk on his own two feet, is remotely comparable to defeating that same person at full strength, are you?
Using R.I.P doesnt mean he wasnt utterly trashed, all it means is that that his already beaten body still has a bit of MP in it.
Besides, like i said, Zeref's attack on Larcade was a surprise attack, less impressive than Brandish stabbing August, less impressive Neinhart nuking Jellal, I could give a ton of examples of surprise attacks accomplishing something like what Zeref did to Larcade. Angel stabbing Jura, Aria draining Makarov, Sting blasting a hole through Jiemma, Cobra tearing out Brain's guts and prob more i cant think of.
Zeref's feat against Larcade isnt a feat of strength, even if Larcade was at full power it'd still only be a Brandish tier feat.
Laxus was defeated because he couldn't continue any longer (endurance/stamina feat). Durability-wise, he didn't receive any major scars nor did he have hole blasted through his body.
I'm not saying exhausted Larcade is comparable to healthy Larcade. But to suggest his durability goes from 100 (blocking Kagura's Archenemy with two fingers) to 0 (having a hole blasted through his body by an unnamed attack) just doesn't make sense. It makes more sense that the attack Zeref used was just that strong. As for R.I.P, Larcade resorts to this attack when all else fails. Kind of like how a dragon slayer uses a secret art. This alone tells me Larcade wasn't that exhausted.
I do agree it was a surprise attack but there are many times where a character was caught off-guard and still didn't have a hole in their body (durability feat).
Honestly, I would just get straight to the point here.
Posting pictures of Zeref's feats are cool and all, but what really matters is the results of those attacks.
Zeref really hasn't beaten anybody who can be considered "Spriggan Level"... Larcade doesn't count because the dude didn't even want to retaliate and was already begging on his knees.
Laxus has shown to match or beat a combined assault of Natsu + Gajeel, Erza, Mystogan, Jura, Tempesta, and Wahl.
Showing pictures of Zeref moving his hands and casting random spells is really pointless to me..
If those feats couldn't help him win a battle, then I see no reason to regard them.
Especially when he was given unlimited magic power and still lost..
Results is what matters, not what happens in between.
But to suggest his durability goes from 100 (blocking Kagura's Archenemy with two fingers) to 0 (having a hole blasted through his body by an unnamed attack) just doesn't make sense. It makes more sense that the attack Zeref used was just that strong.
An attack doesn't even need to be that strong to put a hole through an unsuspecting spriggan though. Brandish accomplished that feat with a simple knife stab. Replace August with Larcade in that scenario and Larcade would be in just as bad shape as when he got blasted by Zeref.
CQC-wise, Laxus isn't much faster than Natsu. Both were able to land hits on each other back in the Fighting Festival Arc. The only time Laxus is faster is when he uses Lightning Body but then he is intangible.
I agree it was a surprise attack. But that doesn't mean your durability goes from 100 to 0. Injury doesn't really factor much into durability than it does to endurance/stamina.
Makarov didn't really react though... Unless you're talking about how he got surprised. As for a feat that will put Laxus down...
I don't find any of those abilities to be particularly dooming for Laxus, due to his sheer strength and mobility. There's not even an estimation of how strong Ankoku Bakuenjin is without Fairy Heart, so it's functionally featless. We can presume that it is a strong attack that Laxus probably doesn't want to block with his chest, but it is just a punch that Natsu countered with a plot reinforced Demolition Fist. So, presumably, if we assume Natsu and Laxus are similar, that's a move he can counter with one of his myriad strong attacks.
Death Pillar killed a weakened Hades, but neither of his companions who were in the vicinity, so it's not particularly clear that it's a highly accurate AoE besides killing a stationary tired old man that just got his ass beat.
Death orb got scattered just by Natsu punching it. Zeref's attacks, as executed, simply haven't shown to do all that much damage to his opponents, except for scarring Natsu's face and killing pre-weakened characters. He's shown good hand-to-hand combat, but nothing that actually puts him demonstrably above anyone else. I think Zeref would have a hard time coping with Lightning Body. I believe Lightning Body would be a working hard counter to Zeref's binding spell he used on Natsu. I just don't see Zeref having any convincing feats that trump anything Laxus can output, while I believe Zeref's true durability is unquantified, we know Laxus can tank attacks and keep fighting through hardship without losing his sharpness for battle.
An attack doesn't even need to be that strong to put a hole through an unsuspecting spriggan though. Brandish accomplished that feat with a simple knife stab. Replace August with Larcade in that scenario and Larcade would be in just as bad shape as when he got blasted by Zeref.
These situations aren't even comparable though. You're comparing a sword stab to a blast. It doesn't matter whether you're expecting the attack or not, a sword stab will go through you.
These situations aren't even comparable though. You're comparing a sword stab to a blast. It doesn't matter whether you're expecting the attack or not, a sword stab will go through you.
Even so, the WSD mode Sting also managed to put several holes in Larcade with his magic too. All Zeref managed to hit with that attack was a weakened , unsuspecting Larcade, so it seems like a very large assumption to say that he could manage to do that or anything similar to someone as fast as Laxus
And what makes you say that??? When did Laxus tank dragon level attacks? Because Zeref feats of tanking Dragon level attacks far exceed anything Laxus has ever had to endure.
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True POF doesnt count, but true translation reveals that it wasnt pof that felled FH Zeref. Come off it. Zeref revealed Natsu defeated him with his own power.
This is ridiculous. This forum is full of so much natsu hate that they cant stand the fact that Natsu can defeat zeref but Laxus cant. Natsu can burn Zeref's Magic, Laxus cant. This is a very simple battle middled by bias lol
This is why these tournaments are bs.
I seriously cant wait for Laxus vs August to see what imaginary feats people give Laxus to give him the edge over the Magic King.
Again, if Laxus cant defeat August, he sure as gell isnt defeating zeref.
Obviously Laxus wins this round by levels of Laxus wank i havent seen since the last tournament where he surprisingly fell to jellal
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And? The only reason laxus beat wahl is because freed randomly taught him a barrier seal and used pof to learn redl lightning for a grandfather he had never met, which makes less sense than Natsu being end which was established. Long ago
It really easy bro... Laxus still has a curse from fighting one of Tartarus demon but he still can fight, and fighting two strong opponet countiously on this Arc. And you are overrated Igneel power too much, Igneel power is not that strong, because Zeref can tank them, Zeref has low durability, he never showed to really have high durability, he is great wizard because he is smart, he can create demons, turn irene into human, etc, but as i said before intelect people tend to have weak physical body. That's why in the manga it never shown that Zeref fighting other opponet which make him tanked their attacks (all of them one shotted), except for Natsu. If he has high durability Hiro should have show us like what Acnologia did in Tenrou Arc, Acnologia tanked guild magic power but he is still fine, but on the other hand... Zeref got knock out by Ultear is a proof that Zeref has very low durability, even he value human, but that's not the excusses for why he got unconsious. Hiro himself make Zeref has low durability... it was proven far away in the begining of the series......
Zeref's immortality only boosted his regen it does not affect his durability.
Laxus CANNOT replicate Natsu's feats against Zeref. Natsu was outright stronger than Laxus before the Zeref fight as he had DF. Laxus is not on Natsu's level. Stop living in the past, Natsu was bound to become the strongest of the guild. Laxus cannot burn through time itself which is what Natsu did to beat Zeref into submission. Laxus cannot burn through Zeref's magic which is what stopped Zeref's death magic. Laxus does not have the physicals of Natsu who literally two shotted an enhanced Neinhart and practically ended Jacob in one hit when he went FDKM. He has only been exhausted in his fight with Zeref while Laxus was KOed for aday and did nothing the rest of the war. Laxus isn't Natsu so use Laxus' OWN feats rather than mooch off of Natsu's feats.
Current Natsu would rekt Laxus anyone who thinks otherwise is a blatant Laxus' fanboy. Laxus is mid S12 tier while Natsu is legit God S12 tier. No comparison between the two anymore.
Zeref ain't losing to a guy who gets oneshotted by Natsu just turning on Igneel's magic lol.
To be fair (again(,If Ankhseram's Black Magic can kill ppl instantly, then why did Natsu survive attacks from Zeref ? And Larcade didn't die when he got blasted by a full attack in a surprise attack ? I don't think just black flashy magic that, so far in the series worked only on fodders can kill Laxus that easily. If Larcade, in a state where he can barely stand, was able to take a direct blast through him and live, then I don't see why a healthy Laxus wouldn't take the hits. :>
Natsu survived due to Igneel's scarf, and the second time was due to burning death magic. Zeref didn't use death magic against Larcade. A healthy Laxus durability was the same as the one who got beat up by Wall. The sickness doesn't decrease durability nor stats. He only gets chest pain, and then gets immobilized by the pain after a while.
That Black Magic has killed everyone it was shown to hit. Only ones surviving is the top tiers of the verse which Laxus isn't. Zeref even w/o immortality is still among the strongest of the verse. His power dwarfs Laxus by a lot.
My point was that he was able to dodge it and save Elfman and Evergreen, if Tenrou Natsu with his speed can dodge them when he tries, then why can't Laxus at this point ?
And do you know who was doing that ? Base Natsu, unless you believe Base Natsu > Laxus, then I don't see why Laxus can't do the same.
But I don't understand one thing,
Natsu got hit directly by Ankhseram black magic, but he didn't die, the scarf didn't absorb it as it isn't black, then how did he survive this ?
A healthy Laxus durability was the same as the one who got beat up by Wall. The sickness doesn't decrease durability nor stats. He only gets chest pain, and then gets immobilized by the pain after a while.
He wasn't just immobilized for a while, against Wahl he was crippled where he couldn't act until he tricked Wahl into ridding him of the MBPs. Wahl stated that its a miracle that he is still living. If that doesn't affect some of his battle abilities (physical power, stamina,defense and speed), then I don't know what does.
Ice Hunter is right, Zeref from Tenrou island arc did get whooped by Urtear. That's a good litmus test for his durability. Obviously he was offensively hampered, but his durability by no reason should've changed. I don't understand the assumption that Natsu would waste Laxus easily. I mean, based on which feats in particular?
Zeref also says "These are Natsu's flames. These are the guild's flames." His tattoo legitimately shines before he throws that final demolition fist, so it seem that BDKM Natsu was drawing on power besides just his own. Regardless, this isn't about Natsu vs. Laxus. Natsu is definitely stronger than Zeref, even if I personally think it was written poorly. All one needs to prove is that Laxus is stronger than base Zeref, not Fairy Heart Zeref. And I think by demonstrating that Zeref's offensive magic is not well suited to fighting Laxus due to being easily dodged, or overly reliant on his plain CQC it's enough evidence to plausibly believe that a cautious Laxus would win that fight. They obviously both have attack that could subdue the other, I just think it's more likely that Laxus will hit with enough of them before Zeref will due to their styles and the tools at their disposal. It's not like either of them is August who is legit impossible for most characters to KO.
It really easy bro... Laxus still has a curse from fighting one of Tartarus demon but he still can fight, and fighting two strong opponet countiously on this Arc. And you are overrated Igneel power too much, Igneel power is not that strong, because Zeref can tank them, Zeref has low durability, he never showed to really have high durability, he is great wizard because he is smart, he can create demons, turn irene into human, etc, but as i said before intelect people tend to have weak physical body. That's why in the manga it never shown that Zeref fighting other opponet which make him tanked their attacks (all of them one shotted), except for Natsu. If he has high durability Hiro should have show us like what Acnologia did in Tenrou Arc, Acnologia tanked guild magic power but he is still fine, but on the other hand... Zeref got knock out by Ultear is a proof that Zeref has very low durability, even he value human, but that's not the excusses for why he got unconsious. Hiro himself make Zeref has low durability... it was proven far away in the begining of the series......
As I said, he was incapable of fighting back properly. But she was still able to bludgeon him into submission with her magic, which isn't super impressive on his part. So Zeref without magic got whooped by Ultear, though his defenses would've been the same. I'm arguing that Zeref has, physically, not gotten tougher since his time on Tenrou Island. I'm not arguing that Urtear is stronger than current Zeref. I'm simply arguing that his base physical capabilities and toughness are simply nothing to write home about. I don't think he's a particularly tough customer.
As I said, he was incapable of fighting back properly. But she was still able to bludgeon him into submission with her magic, which isn't super impressive on his part. So Zeref without magic got whooped by Ultear, though his defenses would've been the same. I'm arguing that Zeref has, physically, not gotten tougher since his time on Tenrou Island. I'm not arguing that Urtear is stronger than current Zeref. I'm simply arguing that his base physical capabilities and toughness are simply nothing to write home about. I don't think he's a particularly tough customer.
He literally mentions that he couldn't use magic properly. He tanked Igneels powered attacks from Natsu, when has Laxus tanked something as powerful as that?. Natsu without magic got his ass kicked by a bunch of soldiers in edolas so a super weak Zeref losing to Ultear wasn't really a big deal.
CQC-wise, Laxus isn't much faster than Natsu. Both were able to land hits on each other back in the Fighting Festival Arc. The only time Laxus is faster is when he uses Lightning Body but then he is intangible.
I agree it was a surprise attack. But that doesn't mean your durability goes from 100 to 0. Injury doesn't really factor much into durability than it does to endurance/stamina.
Makarov didn't really react though... Unless you're talking about how he got surprised. As for a feat that will put Laxus down...
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Laxus was defeated because he couldn't continue any longer (endurance/stamina feat). Durability-wise, he didn't receive any major scars nor did he have hole blasted through his body.
I'm not saying exhausted Larcade is comparable to healthy Larcade. But to suggest his durability goes from 100 (blocking Kagura's Archenemy with two fingers) to 0 (having a hole blasted through his body by an unnamed attack) just doesn't make sense. It makes more sense that the attack Zeref used was just that strong. As for R.I.P, Larcade resorts to this attack when all else fails. Kind of like how a dragon slayer uses a secret art. This alone tells me Larcade wasn't that exhausted.
I do agree it was a surprise attack but there are many times where a character was caught off-guard and still didn't have a hole in their body (durability feat).
When Laxus was serious he was overwhelmingly superior to Natsu back in FF arc, keeping up with him and Gajeel at the same time.
Laxus can attack in Lightning Body, so his speed give him a big advantage.
Of those 3 attacks you gave only the one on Hades is actually a feat, the rest are featless.
Exploding Flame Blade was incredibly unimpressive with Fairy Heart, and hasnt been seen outside of it, so its featless.
Darkness Orb looked even less impressive, was effortlessly dispersed by IgNatsu without FDK mode. It didnt damage anyone, so again, featless.
Death Pillar only destroyed an already trashed no-heart Hades, so its weaker than Lightning Dragon's Jaw, a mid tier Laxus attack.
Hades' attack and Zeref's attack werent the same, Laxus not getting a hole blasted through him doesnt mean anything if he was still defeated. Makarov had a hole blasted through his body by Hades, Tenrou Laxus' durability>>Makarovs?
Larcade regained some magic power to use R.I.P, but that doesnt change the fact that his body was littered with injuries that left him crippled.
Larcade went from physically powerful enough to block a mountain slicing sword strike with just two fingers, to so physically weak that he couldnt even walk. Yes, Larcade went from 100 to 0 or at least very close to 0.
Well actually surprise attacks do kinda make durability go from 100 to 0.
Look at Makarov and Aria, Makarov was in a totally different league and yet he was oneshotted.
Look at Angel and Jura, Jura was leagues above Angel and yet she oneshotted him.
Brain and Cobra
Minerva and Kagura
Sting and Jiemma
Neinhart and Jellal
Brandish and August
The list goes on and on and on.
So yeah, maybe 100 to 0 isnt entirely accurate, but its in that ballpark, recipients of surprise attacks are at best a 10 of 100. The attack Zeref used on Larcade probably isnt even at a level that could put Elfman/Lissana down.
I don't find any of those abilities to be particularly dooming for Laxus, due to his sheer strength and mobility. There's not even an estimation of how strong Ankoku Bakuenjin is without Fairy Heart, so it's functionally featless. We can presume that it is a strong attack that Laxus probably doesn't want to block with his chest, but it is just a punch that Natsu countered with a plot reinforced Demolition Fist. So, presumably, if we assume Natsu and Laxus are similar, that's a move he can counter with one of his myriad strong attacks.
Death Pillar killed a weakened Hades, but neither of his companions who were in the vicinity, so it's not particularly clear that it's a highly accurate AoE besides killing a stationary tired old man that just got his ass beat.
Death orb got scattered just by Natsu punching it. Zeref's attacks, as executed, simply haven't shown to do all that much damage to his opponents, except for scarring Natsu's face and killing pre-weakened characters. He's shown good hand-to-hand combat, but nothing that actually puts him demonstrably above anyone else. I think Zeref would have a hard time coping with Lightning Body. I believe Lightning Body would be a working hard counter to Zeref's binding spell he used on Natsu. I just don't see Zeref having any convincing feats that trump anything Laxus can output, while I believe Zeref's true durability is unquantified, we know Laxus can tank attacks and keep fighting through hardship without losing his sharpness for battle.
Fairy Heart doesn't really boost Zeref's attack power. It just gives him an unlimited supply of magic. So while I agree it's hard to gauge the power of "Exploding Flame Blade of Darkness", I don't think it's something that Laxus can easily defend against.
Death Pillar killed Hades pre-timeskip. So I'm sure it can do some major damage even now. One thing we have to all keep in mind is that Zeref is fighting on par with the top tiers in this arc. That means either he improved or he was always this strong. Nonetheless, his spells scale with his overall power so Death Pillar should be effective regardless of when he used it.
Natsu didn't just scatter Death Orb with a punch. He incinerated it which is something Laxus will have to get around, either by dodging it or tanking it.
I've given my arguments. And I truly believe that these attacks are capable of taking Laxus down, knowing his durability. But what about Laxus' attacks? Which ones can take Zeref down, while keeping in mind that he tanked attacks from Igneel-Powered Natsu?
I mean, he took a pretty rough comboing from Wahl including some rough strikes, a laser, and missiles pretty much without being able to guard. Though you're right. It's a pretty reasonable point that BDKM Natsu's hit packed a wallop, even if they were almost entirely unnamed attacks at the time. I think while the external punishment wasn't as bad, Laxus did it all while undergoing the equivalent of organ failure, so that speaks well enough to his toughness as well. Frankly, I think Laxus CAN put out the same amount of damage as Natsu in BDKM. It might take more attacks, and he might take more damage in the process. But Blaze Dragon King Natsu was kicking Zeref's ass when they fought. Laxus has shown the ability to cause really big explosions.
Pretty sure the one that would've roasted Ajeel had August not been there is strong enough to significantly damage Zeref, even if Laxus needs to fire it a couple times. That said, Red Lightning is pretty strong. Fairy Law would probably at least hurt a little.
I don't get why Hades being killed when he was weakened is somehow taking away from Zeref's feats, Larcade aside (since its obvious Zeref wasn't as serious as when he was with Hades), what would a full powered Hades do against Death Pillar? That is LITERAL DEATH MAGIC which takes away the opponent's life, what would it do to a Hades with his heart? Leave him half dead?
That's like saying shooting an injured person on the head with a gun and also shooting a healthy one on the head with the same gun doesn't achieve the same results, it's the SAME damn thing in the end, Hades's physical state is a non factor there.
Laxus gets hit by that then there's no way he's getting out of there alive. And this is just one of the SEVERAL ways Zeref wins this fight.
I mean, he took a pretty rough comboing from Wahl including some rough strikes, a laser, and missiles pretty much without being able to guard. Though you're right. It's a pretty reasonable point that BDKM Natsu's hit packed a wallop, even if they were almost entirely unnamed attacks at the time. I think while the external punishment wasn't as bad, Laxus did it all while undergoing the equivalent of organ failure, so that speaks well enough to his toughness as well. Frankly, I think Laxus CAN put out the same amount of damage as Natsu in BDKM. It might take more attacks, and he might take more damage in the process. But Blaze Dragon King Natsu was kicking Zeref's ass when they fought. Laxus has shown the ability to cause really big explosions.
Pretty sure the one that would've roasted Ajeel had August not been there is strong enough to significantly damage Zeref, even if Laxus needs to fire it a couple times. That said, Red Lightning is pretty strong. Fairy Law would probably at least hurt a little.
Two things. Laxus might be able to match DF Natsu in power but FDKM is in a whole new league. Zeref was not losing they were fighting equally even though Zeref was pretty much uninterested in the fight.
Laxus received 6 hits from wahl (I counted, you can check if you want), he wasn't badly damaged but at the same time it looked like he couldn't take on another spriggan after that. Other mages (Natsu, Gray, Erza) were doing completely fine after taking on a spriggan and receiving more hits than Laxus did. Even if we took his "sickness" into consideration his durability is average at best.
Well, Ajeel himself said that he would've been fine. That said he lost to elfman and lisanna, so even if Laxus did one shot him I wouldn't be impressed. Fairy law? You do realise Zeref invented that spell right?
My point was that he was able to dodge it and save Elfman and Evergreen, if Tenrou Natsu with his speed can dodge them when he tries, then why can't Laxus at this point ?
And do you know who was doing that ? Base Natsu, unless you believe Base Natsu > Laxus, then I don't see why Laxus can't do the same.
But I don't understand one thing,
Natsu got hit directly by Ankhseram black magic, but he didn't die, the scarf didn't absorb it as it isn't black, then how did he survive this ?
what does this look like ?
He wasn't just immobilized for a while, against Wahl he was crippled where he couldn't act until he tricked Wahl into ridding him of the MBPs. Wahl stated that its a miracle that he is still living. If that doesn't affect some of his battle abilities (physical power, stamina,defense and speed), then I don't know what does.
Laxus is one of the strongest Ishgar has to offer, and now he isn't top tier, I'm not even gonna argue on this.
Natsu's scarf is what saved them from the attack. It's the reason it turned black.
Zeref already stated he held back against Natsu in hopes that Natsu would reach the level needed to kill him. And again that isn't Death Magic. Not all of Zeref's magic is death magic.
Not in the beginning of the fight, and if Wall didn't miss his fireball that would've fudged Laxus up and had he not given Laxus an amp by charging him with lightning then Wall would've easily won the battle. He could've just used Etherion from the start and killed Laxus. The MCBs only stopped him twice. One in the middle and at the very end. That still didn't affect his stats. His speed and attacks that he used on Wall are still the same strength and speed with or without the sickness. The sickness only immobilized him and caused him pain.
Being one of the strongest on Ishgar does not make you a top tier in the Verse. Ishgar's strongest are sh!t compared to Alvarez's strongest let alone Acno. Laxus was never top tier in the verse, he was only one of the strongest guild member. Only Natsu is top tier in the guild.
