Quarterfinal Laxus vs Zeref

[coolerthanzerok]

What is the evidence that Death Pillar is a 100% certain kill with perfect accuracy? All we know is he uses it once and it kills Hades, and neither of the other people in the room. We know that Death Predation was a spell that seemed to kill everything reliably and cast itself while Zeref valued life. It appeared that the danger of his magic diminished the less he cared about life. All it would take was a powerful end-story spell to kill a pre-weakened Hades. I'd claim that Laxus wouldn't even need to tank it. He would dodge it. For all we know Death Pillar is simply a spell that does high damage like Grand Chariot or Sema or any number of other high end spells that would've killed a beaten and weary old man.

I would not say Natsu and Zeref were fighting evenly. Except for the hit that scarred Natsu's face, Natsu hits Zeref with much heavier attacks that send him flying through rocks and crap.

The first time Zeref's death magic went off Natsu, Ever, and Elfman dodge it. That's not when his scarf turns black. No one ever tanks Death Predation, except for Natsu's scarf. However, Zeref hasn't been shown to be able to use that ability at will. He imbues plenty of his attacks with dark magic, sure, but nothing quite that potent.

Wahl told Laxus that Laxus should've been dead as he was. He wasn't "totally fine". He was stoic and toughing it out until his organs started failing, and still put up a fight through that. Laxus could've ramped up his attacks against Wahl if Wahl wasn't completely immune to lightning. (To be fair, I still don't get how "red lightning" works)

I think top tier in the verse consists of August alone. Followed by Natsu, FH Zeref, Irene, and Gildartz. Regardless, even though I think Laxus SHOULD win this round against a nerfed Zeref, I will almost certainly vote against him in the next round based on who's left.

 

[Hermit]

Death Pillar

>Death

Death is the cessation of all biological functions that sustain a living organism. Phenomena which commonly bring about death include biological aging (senescence), predation, malnutrition, disease, suicide, homicide, starvation, dehydration, and accidents or trauma resulting in terminal injury.[1] Bodies of living organisms begin to decompose shortly after death.

The magic itself has the name death in it and we've seen it kill indiscriminately before, even to the extent of plants and even animals alike.
Why is this a question

 

[coolerthanzerok]

>Death

Death is the cessation of all biological functions that sustain a living organism. Phenomena which commonly bring about death include biological aging (senescence), predation, malnutrition, disease, suicide, homicide, starvation, dehydration, and accidents or trauma resulting in terminal injury.[1] Bodies of living organisms begin to decompose shortly after death.

The magic itself has the name death in it and we've seen it kill indiscriminately before, even to the extent of plants and even animals alike.
Why is this a question

Just because things have "death" in the name does not mean they auto-kill. Hell, Mard Geer's ultimate attack was called "Memento Mori" which literally translates to "Remember you must die". Natsu and Grey both tanked it. The only time he used Death Pillar was against worn out Hades. All those other deaths were from Death Predation when Zeref didn't have control of his magic. He didn't use it on Natsu when he decided to fight Natsu seriously. I remain unconvinced that Zeref has a reliable one-shot auto kill against anyone that's not August who automatically nullifies all magic. If Zeref REALLY wanted to win every fight, he would convince himself his opponent's lives were worth something and that he loves them, then his curse would kick in and reliably kill everyone. The only way he can not kill people is by not caring about killing them. That's why it's called the curse of conflict.

 

[Pirate Queen]

This isnt about Laxus being stronger than Zeref, it's about keeping Laxus in as long as they can.

We all know Laxus is the golden boy of this particular fairy tail forum, hell he's my favorite character, but this is just foolishness.

People are even saying Laxus has more experience than zeref lol ya, 400 year old, zeref. The black mage who crated countless demons, subdued an entire continent, created law, eclipse gate, r system and countless other magic

Natsu took out 100,000 alvarez troops with a single assult and used that same power to pummel zeref (who kept coming) and Zeref doesnt have durability feat? Is that a fucking joke?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2017 ---

Natsu's scarf is what saved them from the attack. It's the reason it turned black.

Zeref already stated he held back against Natsu in hopes that Natsu would reach the level needed to kill him. And again that isn't Death Magic. Not all of Zeref's magic is death magic.

Not in the beginning of the fight, and if Wall didn't miss his fireball that would've fudged Laxus up and had he not given Laxus an amp by charging him with lightning then Wall would've easily won the battle. He could've just used Etherion from the start and killed Laxus. The MCBs only stopped him twice. One in the middle and at the very end. That still didn't affect his stats. His speed and attacks that he used on Wall are still the same strength and speed with or without the sickness. The sickness only immobilized him and caused him pain.

Being one of the strongest on Ishgar does not make you a top tier in the Verse. Ishgar's strongest are sh!t compared to Alvarez's strongest let alone Acno. Laxus was never top tier in the verse, he was only one of the strongest guild member. Only Natsu is top tier in the guild.

only slightly disagee. If Ishgar had a "spriggan 12" equivilent than natsu, gildarts, jellal, and laxus would definitely be members. I this Laxus is top teir, just not zeref tier. Sheert, laxus isnt even Natsu tier now lol

 

[M3J]

Natsu+Gajeel having difficulty to defeat Laxus was indeed decades ago and serves no purpose in measuring their strength. And defeating a Spriggan where he had elemental advantage and had to heal from opponent's power? And to boot, using Fred's rune magic and some lightning that 'isn't a lightning' seems as an equal asspull to me.

It does serve some purpose measuring their strength, especially since we see Laxus has gotten strong, especially being able to beat a Spriggan poisoned. Zeref couldn't even beat Natsu without Fairy Heart, and to date not much has implied Natsu is above Laxus in any way except for an attack or two.

Laxus lost handedly to jellal in the last tounament with the saame feats and suddenly he's zeref tier lol these excuses are hilarious.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 1, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 1, 2017 ---

Thank u. This is ridiculous.

That logic makes no sense, especially when new things are introduced. Despite this manga being bad, it's not static. There can be various reasons why Laxus lost to Jellal, most of which I'm sure are not valid.

 

[coolerthanzerok]

To be clear, I lurk and seriously only logged back in because I honestly think that, given the restriction, Laxus is a more impressive fighter. I think Zeref's curse contributes a degree of durability. I think the nimbleness of Laxus' fighting style would cause him to manhandle a slower Zeref. I mean, sure, Zeref has some good attacks, but they're nothing special. I was really disappointed with Zeref's fighting with Natsu being almost completely non-technical and just plain old fisticuffs. That wasn't impressive enough for a final fight, so my profound disappointment in Zeref's actual combat style as opposed to the consistent flair and dominance of Laxus in his fights just has me imaging Zeref throwing around spells and getting punched in the back of the head a lot and alternately taking some high level nukes from Laxus 'cuz he has them. Frankly, I think plot induced stupidity would cause Laxus to lose the fight if he thought that infighting was the way to go, because that's really the range at which Zeref would be able to hit him with real spells. I begrudgingly agree that Natsu would beat Laxus. I wouldn't call myself a Laxus fan, I just think Zeref doesn't live up to the hype. At all.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

When Laxus was serious he was overwhelmingly superior to Natsu back in FF arc, keeping up with him and Gajeel at the same time.
Laxus can attack in Lightning Body, so his speed give him a big advantage.

Of those 3 attacks you gave only the one on Hades is actually a feat, the rest are featless.
Exploding Flame Blade was incredibly unimpressive with Fairy Heart, and hasnt been seen outside of it, so its featless.
Darkness Orb looked even less impressive, was effortlessly dispersed by IgNatsu without FDK mode. It didnt damage anyone, so again, featless.
Death Pillar only destroyed an already trashed no-heart Hades, so its weaker than Lightning Dragon's Jaw, a mid tier Laxus attack.

Hades' attack and Zeref's attack werent the same, Laxus not getting a hole blasted through him doesnt mean anything if he was still defeated. Makarov had a hole blasted through his body by Hades, Tenrou Laxus' durability>>Makarovs?

Larcade regained some magic power to use R.I.P, but that doesnt change the fact that his body was littered with injuries that left him crippled.
Larcade went from physically powerful enough to block a mountain slicing sword strike with just two fingers, to so physically weak that he couldnt even walk. Yes, Larcade went from 100 to 0 or at least very close to 0.

Well actually surprise attacks do kinda make durability go from 100 to 0.
Look at Makarov and Aria, Makarov was in a totally different league and yet he was oneshotted.
Look at Angel and Jura, Jura was leagues above Angel and yet she oneshotted him.
Brain and Cobra
Minerva and Kagura
Sting and Jiemma
Neinhart and Jellal
Brandish and August
The list goes on and on and on.
So yeah, maybe 100 to 0 isnt entirely accurate, but its in that ballpark, recipients of surprise attacks are at best a 10 of 100. The attack Zeref used on Larcade probably isnt even at a level that could put Elfman/Lissana down.

Okay, I do acknowledge Laxus' speed. But again, if he gets slowed or even caught by one of Zeref's spells, he is definitely vulnerable to losing.

"Exploding Flame Blade of Darkness" and "Death Orb" are featless in a sense that they didn't actually damage Natsu. But they are not featless in that it required a strong attack to dispel/counter it like Igneel-Powered Natsu's flames and "FDK Demolition Fist". There is no way someone can sell it to me that these attacks wouldn't damage Laxus.

Again, whether you're defeated or not depends on endurance/stamina. Durability is a test of how much damage you take when tanking an attack. Someone like Erza is easily cut, bruised, and damaged but can still fight for long periods of time due to her endurance (skewed by PoF). Meanwhile, someone like Jacob is really durable but can be defeated quite easily. As for Laxus' durability on Tenrou, yes, I would say it's higher than Makarov when he isn't using his Titan Form.

I guess we'll just have to disagree about Larcade. He was standing perfectly fine to me and even had the ability to immobilize Natsu. I don't really call that crippled.

Most of your examples about surprise attacks involve a knife/sword stab which isn't comparable to an energy blast. Whether you expect a sword stab or not, it's going to go through you. Irene knew she was going to stab herself and the sword went through her. Now I acknowledge that she doesn't have the best durability, but would it be weaker than someone like Neinhart? As for Makarov and Aria, that didn't really have anything to do with durability. Sting and Jiemma was fueled by PoF after Lector supposedly "died". And Jellal received no injuries from Neinhart's blast. Don't remember much about Brain and Cobra.

 

[Seven777]

Okay, I do acknowledge Laxus' speed. But again, if he gets slowed or even caught by one of Zeref's spells, he is definitely vulnerable to losing.

"Exploding Flame Blade of Darkness" and "Death Orb" are featless in a sense that they didn't actually damage Natsu. But they are not featless in that it required a strong attack to dispel/counter it like Igneel-Powered Natsu's flames and "FDK Demolition Fist". There is no way someone can sell it to me that these attacks wouldn't damage Laxus.

Again, whether you're defeated or not depends on endurance/stamina. Durability is a test of how much damage you take when tanking an attack. Someone like Erza is easily cut, bruised, and damaged but can still fight for long periods of time due to her endurance (skewed by PoF). Meanwhile, someone like Jacob is really durable but can be defeated quite easily. As for Laxus' durability on Tenrou, yes, I would say it's higher than Makarov when he isn't using his Titan Form.

I guess we'll just have to disagree about Larcade. He was standing perfectly fine to me and even had the ability to immobilize Natsu. I don't really call that crippled.

Most of your examples about surprise attacks involve a knife/sword stab which isn't comparable to an energy blast. Whether you expect a sword stab or not, it's going to go through you. Irene knew she was going to stab herself and the sword went through her. Now I acknowledge that she doesn't have the best durability, but would it be weaker than someone like Neinhart? As for Makarov and Aria, that didn't really have anything to do with durability. Sting and Jiemma was fueled by PoF after Lector supposedly "died". And Jellal received no injuries from Neinhart's blast. Don't remember much about Brain and Cobra.

Not saying Laxus' winning is a sure thing, but for now im betting on him.

But we have no idea how dangerous those attacks are, they havent damaged anyone, visually they're pretty mediocre.
Flame Blade of Darkness has some hype behind it, but nothing that really describes how deadly it is, and it performed pretty terribly.
"Dark Orb" doesnt have hype, feats or visual impact, seems like a fodder blast to me, no better than Zeref's "Dark Fists" he uses to engage Natsu in CQC.

I'd have to disagree. Some attacks have a piercing effect, some dont, simple as that. The attack Hades used on Makarov had such an affect, the attack he used on Laxus was more of a exploding "nuke" kinda spell. Should we considered Mard's thorn curse>Over Skelter cause the thorns pierced Gajeel while Bloodman's "Ultimate Curse" didnt?

Yeah, i guess we just disagree. For me, i view someone so weak, they have to slowly crawl through the street despite desperately trying to go save their father as fast as they can, as crippled.

So what if some of the example involve a knife? Why is it different? Weapons>Magic?
Eileen stabbing herself with a sword that previously could barely scratch her is a perfect example of how easily durability can go from 100 to 0
Sting and Jiemma was literally the exact same thing as Larcade and Zeref. PoF doesnt put Sting on oneshot tier, even Natsu wasnt close to that powerful.
Aria still oneshotted him, something he'd never be able to accomplish outside a surprise attack.
Brain was thanking Cobra and talking about the OS return to glory, Cobra interrupted him by ripping out his insides.
Jellal was knocked out by Neinhart's attack.
There are plenty of other examples too.
Silver oneshotting Natsu.
Sting oneshotting Bacchus
Ichiya oneshotting Bacchus
Mest taking control of Brandish
Kana oneshotting Brandish
Its classic "Goku Syndrome" when their guard is down even someone with planet tier durability can easily be taken down by a simple laser.

 

[Jko]

This isnt about Laxus being stronger than Zeref, it's about keeping Laxus in as long as they can.

We all know Laxus is the golden boy of this particular fairy tail forum, hell he's my favorite character, but this is just foolishness.

People are even saying Laxus has more experience than zeref lol ya, 400 year old, zeref. The black mage who crated countless demons, subdued an entire continent, created law, eclipse gate, r system and countless other magic

Natsu took out 100,000 alvarez troops with a single assult and used that same power to pummel zeref (who kept coming) and Zeref doesnt have durability feat? Is that a fucking joke?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2017 ---

only slightly disagee. If Ishgar had a "spriggan 12" equivilent than natsu, gildarts, jellal, and laxus would definitely be members. I this Laxus is top teir, just not zeref tier. Sheert, laxus isnt even Natsu tier now lol

Laxus, Gildarts, Erza, Jellal, and Mira could all be S12 but they wouldn't be top tier S12. August, or Irene would stomp them in a battle. Only person from the list who could maybe beat a high tier S12 is Gildarts. The others are mid tiers at best. Natsu is the only top tier of the Ishgar forces. A lot of Non PIS High tier S12s could solo Ishgar (w/o Natsu).

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Not saying Laxus' winning is a sure thing, but for now im betting on him.

But we have no idea how dangerous those attacks are, they havent damaged anyone, visually they're pretty mediocre.
Flame Blade of Darkness has some hype behind it, but nothing that really describes how deadly it is, and it performed pretty terribly.
"Dark Orb" doesnt have hype, feats or visual impact, seems like a fodder blast to me, no better than Zeref's "Dark Fists" he uses to engage Natsu in CQC.

I'd have to disagree. Some attacks have a piercing effect, some dont, simple as that. The attack Hades used on Makarov had such an affect, the attack he used on Laxus was more of a exploding "nuke" kinda spell. Should we considered Mard's thorn curse>Over Skelter cause the thorns pierced Gajeel while Bloodman's "Ultimate Curse" didnt?

Yeah, i guess we just disagree. For me, i view someone so weak, they have to slowly crawl through the street despite desperately trying to go save their father as fast as they can, as crippled.

So what if some of the example involve a knife? Why is it different? Weapons>Magic?
Eileen stabbing herself with a sword that previously could barely scratch her is a perfect example of how easily durability can go from 100 to 0
Sting and Jiemma was literally the exact same thing as Larcade and Zeref. PoF doesnt put Sting on oneshot tier, even Natsu wasnt close to that powerful.
Aria still oneshotted him, something he'd never be able to accomplish outside a surprise attack.
Brain was thanking Cobra and talking about the OS return to glory, Cobra interrupted him by ripping out his insides.
Jellal was knocked out by Neinhart's attack.
There are plenty of other examples too.
Silver oneshotting Natsu.
Sting oneshotting Bacchus
Ichiya oneshotting Bacchus
Mest taking control of Brandish
Kana oneshotting Brandish
Its classic "Goku Syndrome" when their guard is down even someone with planet tier durability can easily be taken down by a simple laser.

Fair enough. I'll let you have the last word here.

I guess the main difference between us is that I don't put much emphasis on what an attack visually looks like, when determining its power. It's for this very reason why I don't think flashier attacks like Natsu's fire or Laxus' lightning are necessarily superior to Gray's ice, for example. Likewise, I rarely correlate bigger attacks with stronger attacks. With that said, I don't consider an attack like "Death Orb" to be a fodder blast. Especially since Natsu chose to incinerate it using Igneel's flames rather than just tanking it. I do agree that its power isn't solidly determined though.

You're right. I concede on the point about some attacks having a piercing effect. That is true. But I still think Makarov's durability is lower than Laxus when he isn't using his Titan Form.

As for your examples involving a knife/sword, it's not that weapons are stronger than magic. It's that they have a piercing effect (like you mentioned earlier). That isn't really comparable to Zeref's attack which seemingly had no piercing effect whatsoever (at least not more than swords, knives, laser beams, etc.).

 

[Tirl]

Natsu took out 100,000 alvarez troops with a single assult

Natsu took out only around 1000 soldiers.

 

[Seven777]

Fair enough. I'll let you have the last word here.

I guess the main difference between us is that I don't put much emphasis on what an attack visually looks like, when determining its power. It's for this very reason why I don't think flashier attacks like Natsu's fire or Laxus' lightning are necessarily superior to Gray's ice, for example. Likewise, I rarely correlate bigger attacks with stronger attacks. , I don't consider an attack like "Death Orb" to be a fodder blast. Especially since Natsu chose to incinerate it using Igneel's flames rather than just tanking it. Having said all that, I do agree that its power isn't solidly determined.

You're right. I concede on the point about some attacks having a piercing effect. That is true. But I still think Makarov's durability is lower than Laxus when he isn't using his Titan Form.

As for your examples involving a knife/sword, it's not that weapons are stronger than magic. It's that they have a piercing effect (like you mentioned earlier). That isn't really comparable to Zeref's attack which seemingly had no piercing effect whatsoever (at least not more than swords, knives, laser beams, etc.).

I dont put much stock in size or visuals either, but if a spell has nothing else going for it thats what i go by. Zeref's spells dont really have a lot going for them, Exploding Darkness Blade has the hype for being powerful, but it was used by FH Zeref, and even then its deadliness was never really specified.
Dont see Natsu destroying an attack as proof the attack is strong, no fighter should be willingly tanking attacks they are capable of avoiding unless it is gonna somehow benefit them(maybe create an opening or something). Natsu casually swiping it aside instead of just dodging it makes it look nonthreatening, like a basic nameless attack, like Zeref's punches. Imo the "Death Pillar" on Hades was a lot stronger.

The attack Zeref used on Larcade was piercing(we saw it pierce him). It didnt shoot out of Zeref's hand, it formed at Larcade's stomach and was blasted point blank through it.

 

[coolerthanzerok]

I think the really important thing here is that, regarding quality of discussion, conclusions need to be based on feats, otherwise it's just us throwing speculation at each other. That's why Zeref is a mess for this kind of setting, because after the hype he hasn't really done very much. I mean, theoretically, the greatest mage in history, black mage Zeref, should out hype effectively anyone. All we witnessed though was him killing Hades that one time and throwing sound a bunch of nameless attacks while inexplicably pushing Natsu, whose actual degree of strength also seems to be in flux.

As for where Laxus matches up against the Spriggans, he's pretty certainly somewhere above Ajeel, Neinhart, Invel, Jacob, Bloodman, Larcade, and Wahl, leaving God Serena, the two strongest and characters with various hax that one could argue he would resist due to potentially having higher MP. Or not. He's in the same tier as DiMaria, Brandish, and Serena. Theye's even an argument to be made that maybe due to dragonslaying advantages he could beat Irene. I guess the point is that Laxus isn't merely mid-tier, he's just not God tier, and I don't think Zeref ever demonstrated feats that let him rise out of High-tier either, even if it canonically stands to reason that he would be because of hype. After hasn't won any straight up fights without using Fairy Heart. Period. He's only killed people who didn't defend themselves. His only feat, thus, is put up a good fight and lost against Natsu, which is certainly a good feat, but otherwise doesn't seem all that amazing. Natsu is certainly crazy strong, especially in their first fight, but I see no reason he would have less difficulty with Laxus than Zeref. Zeref simply hasn't done what he needs to to prove otherwise, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[LaGOAT]

CQC-wise, Laxus isn't much faster than Natsu. Both were able to land hits on each other back in the Fighting Festival Arc. The only time Laxus is faster is when he uses Lightning Body but then he is intangible.

I agree it was a surprise attack. But that doesn't mean your durability goes from 100 to 0. Injury doesn't really factor much into durability than it does to endurance/stamina.

Makarov didn't really react though... Unless you're talking about how he got surprised. As for a feat that will put Laxus down...

Spoiler: Exploding Flame Blade of Darkness (Without FH of course)

Spoiler: Death Pillar

Spoiler: Death Orb

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 1, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 1, 2017 ---

Laxus was defeated because he couldn't continue any longer (endurance/stamina feat). Durability-wise, he didn't receive any major scars nor did he have hole blasted through his body.

I'm not saying exhausted Larcade is comparable to healthy Larcade. But to suggest his durability goes from 100 (blocking Kagura's Archenemy with two fingers) to 0 (having a hole blasted through his body by an unnamed attack) just doesn't make sense. It makes more sense that the attack Zeref used was just that strong. As for R.I.P, Larcade resorts to this attack when all else fails. Kind of like how a dragon slayer uses a secret art. This alone tells me Larcade wasn't that exhausted.

I do agree it was a surprise attack but there are many times where a character was caught off-guard and still didn't have a hole in their body (durability feat).

sorry i hear cqc alot in this forums what does that even mean? 2. he was going toe to toe with an unserious laxus (and laxus till had the upper hand)

lol yes it does u literally saw him crawling to the guild plus he wasnt on his guard just like @Seven777 gave u example are u saying that brandish>august aria>makarov?.

giving zeref feats lol i can give laxus feats if u want to play that game too.

death pillar beat a weaken hades how is that impressive? weaken laxus beat a historia hades. and historia hades>weakened hades that more impressive.

death orb something that a tenrou ultear can dodge? lol


@Emperor Spriggan how do u know that??? plus laxus beat a historia hades while he wasnt 100% that more impressive than beating an already weaken character that wasnt trying to fight him in the first place. historia hades>weaken powerless hades. so whats ur logic with aria vs makarov and brandish vs august do u think that if they on their guard that would work on them??

@Jko laxus isnt top tier in the verse??

 

[Seven777]

sorry i hear cqc alot in this forums what does that even mean? 2. he was going toe to toe with an unserious laxus (and laxus till had the upper hand)

lol yes it does u literally saw him crawling to the guild plus he wasnt on his guard just like @Seven777 gave u example are u saying that brandish>august aria>makarov?.

giving zeref feats lol i can give laxus feats if u want to play that game too.

death pillar beat a weaken hades how is that impressive? weaken laxus beat a historia hades. and historia hades>weakened hades that more impressive.

death orb something that a tenrou ultear can dodge? lol


@Emperor Spriggan how do u know that??? plus laxus beat a historia hades while he wasnt 100% that more impressive than beating an already weaken character that wasnt trying to fight him in the first place. historia hades>weaken powerless hades. so whats ur logic with aria vs makarov and brandish vs august do u think that if they on their guard that would work on them??

@Jko laxus is top tier in the verse??

CQC=Close Quarters Combat. Basically how good you are in a fist fight

 

[Biri Biri]

Fairy Heart doesn't really boost Zeref's attack power. It just gives him an unlimited supply of magic.

Spoiler

Come on now mate, you cannot be serious.

It was only explained recently the main reason why Zeref truly fears Acnologia is because Zeref himself knows he will suffer a fate worse than death. While Acnologia cannot kill him due to his immortality, neither can Zeref kill Acnologia due to the gap in their powers, and Acnologia's ability to eat magic. As such, Acnologia can essentially turn Zeref and Mavis into his stress ball/chew toy while he wipes out the rest of humanity. For eternity.

Spoiler

By absorbing FH, it gives Zeref the chance to compete against Acnologia. A fighting chance to defeat him, and avoid the fate he fears so. What good does it do if FH only supplies Zeref with purely unlimited supply of magic power? It would only serve to prolong his suffering. It is because we have seen that this source of magic power granted from FH enables Zeref additional powers and abilities, which actually translates into greater strength, for him to threaten Acnologia's reign. That was what Zeref and his empire was banking on since day one. Otherwise, FH is redundant.

Death Pillar killed Hades pre-timeskip. So I'm sure it can do some major damage even now. One thing we have to all keep in mind is that Zeref is fighting on par with the top tiers in this arc. That means either he improved or he was always this strong. Nonetheless, his spells scale with his overall power so Death Pillar should be effective regardless of when he used it.

Yes, indeed it did. Killing is an emphatic term, but it should be applied within context as to who it killed. Hades was already out of magic power, and by then was physically obsolete to put up a fight. We have no clue how it would perform against someone ready to thrown down the gauntlet. And I disagree with you to use power scaling, as we are all aware by now how screwed up it is in this series.

Natsu didn't just scatter Death Orb with a punch. He incinerated it which is something Laxus will have to get around, either by dodging it or tanking it.

Spoiler

I've given my arguments. And I truly believe that these attacks are capable of taking Laxus down, knowing his durability. But what about Laxus' attacks? Which ones can take Zeref down, while keeping in mind that he tanked attacks from Igneel-Powered Natsu?

Again I beg to differ. Base on what was displayed during the exchange, Zeref's attacks were effortlessly intercepted and dispelled by Natsu. We have seen how Laxus can maneuvre his attacks from various angles, ranging from summoning them from external sources such as the skies, or the ground, expelling it from his body, for melee and from a distance, with rapid succession and little to no gestures which implies requiring time to charge or gather energy.

Some of us seem to have preconceived notions regarding the power level amongst the characters. However Laxus is one of the strongest base on both feats and portrayal. In his introduction, he completely resisted Mystogan's sleeping magic, while everyone else succumbed to it. Only Makarov was capable of withstanding it to an extent, but still affected him enough to cause drowsiness. During his fight with Mystogan, Laxus was hit with a spell that took so long to set up that Mystogan needed to use illusions to keep him occupied and buy himself sufficient time to cast it. When Laxus figured this out, he dispelled the illusion and just fired off an equally powerful attack instantly.

Laxus toyed with Erza, who was already strong enough to be a Wizard Saint then, and completely overwhelmed both Natsu and Gajeel in a handicap fight, once he unleashed his dragon slayer magic. Laxus arrogance was what led to his defeat. He was casting ridiculously powerful and costly spells when he never actually needed to. It caused him to wear himself out, and made it even possible, for Natsu to beat him.

However, he's since grown out of this and got rid of his teenage angst. In his fight with Hades, it was clear Mashima has already portrayed his fighting style to improve and became a lot more grounded and sensible in his approach and mentality. Laxus' performance against Hades was certainly more impressive than Makarov's. He was the one who fought Hades, while Gildarts fought his second in command in Bluenote. Laxus was also the one who used his body as the medium for FT in the encounter with Acnologia. While Gildarts remained a bystander throughout.

Despite being suspended in frozen animation for seven years with the rest, Laxus defeated Jura in the GMG. The Jura who was the fifth WS, and favourite pastime is actually dedicating himself to training.

Spoiler

And the same Jura whose fight with Jellal was unconcluded with an ambiguous ending. Who knew with seven years of training, or obliterating dark guilds like Oracion Seis, how much of an improvement would Laxus have over his peers?

In addition, apart from the lightning dragon slayer lacrima in his body, Laxus never received any form of power up from anything. He did not have to unlock his Second Origin to make up for lost time and even the playing field. The same which cannot be said of these guys.

Spoiler

Laxus only gave, but didn't receive any power, aside from one handicap after another. Even other side characters such as Gajeel and Levy acquired shadow dragon slayer magic and second origin release respectively. Laxus obtained magic barrier particles which only cause him sickness and debilitating condition to fight. Doesn't matter though. Laxus is Laxus, so he still survives and win. He was taken out at the beginning because it would make zero sense for Laxus to not beat Mard Geer in Tartaros.

Laxus has came a long way, and matured into one of the strongest and dependable fighters. Not just on Ishgar's side, but the entire series. He has not taken any shortcuts while doing so, his growth rate is steady but constant, and the speed and potential he has blows someone like Jellal out of the water. I do feel Jellal reach the height of his potential far earlier than Laxus did. But from we have seen so far, we have enough reason to believe Laxus will end up the most powerful out of him, Gildarts, Jellal and Jura.

Food for thought, eh?

 

[LaGOAT]

Spoiler

Come on now mate, you cannot be serious.

It was only explained recently the main reason why Zeref truly fears Acnologia is because Zeref himself knows he will suffer a fate worse than death. While Acnologia cannot kill him due to his immortality, neither can Zeref kill Acnologia due to the gap in their powers, and Acnologia's ability to eat magic. As such, Acnologia can essentially turn Zeref and Mavis into his stress ball/chew toy while he wipes out the rest of humanity. For eternity.

Spoiler

By absorbing FH, it gives Zeref the chance to compete against Acnologia. A fighting chance to defeat him, and avoid the fate he fears so. What good does it do if FH only supplies Zeref with purely unlimited supply of magic power? It would only serve to prolong his suffering. It is because we have seen that this source of magic power granted from FH enables Zeref additional powers and abilities, which actually translates into greater strength, for him to threaten Acnologia's reign. That was what Zeref and his empire was banking on since day one. Otherwise, FH is redundant.



Yes, indeed it did. Killing is an emphatic term, but it should be applied within context as to who it killed. Hades was already out of magic power, and by then was physically obsolete to put up a fight. We have no clue how it would perform against someone ready to thrown down the gauntlet. And I disagree with you to use power scaling, as we are all aware by now how screwed up it is in this series.



Again I beg to differ. Base on what was displayed during the exchange, Zeref's attacks were effortlessly intercepted and dispelled by Natsu. We have seen how Laxus can maneuvre his attacks from various angles, ranging from summoning them from external sources such as the skies, or the ground, expelling it from his body, for melee and from a distance, with rapid succession and little to no gestures which implies requiring time to charge or gather energy.

Some of us seem to have preconceived notions regarding the power level amongst the characters. However Laxus is one of the strongest base on both feats and portrayal. In his introduction, he completely resisted Mystogan's sleeping magic, while everyone else succumbed to it. Only Makarov was capable of withstanding it to an extent, but still affected him enough to cause drowsiness. During his fight with Mystogan, Laxus was hit with a spell that took so long to set up that Mystogan needed to use illusions to keep him occupied and buy himself sufficient time to cast it. When Laxus figured this out, he dispelled the illusion and just fired off an equally powerful attack instantly.

Laxus toyed with Erza, who was already strong enough to be a Wizard Saint then, and completely overwhelmed both Natsu and Gajeel in a handicap fight, once he unleashed his dragon slayer magic. Laxus arrogance was what led to his defeat. He was casting ridiculously powerful and costly spells when he never actually needed to. It caused him to wear himself out, and made it even possible, for Natsu to beat him.

However, he's since grown out of this and got rid of his teenage angst. In his fight with Hades, it was clear Mashima has already portrayed his fighting style to improve and became a lot more grounded and sensible in his approach and mentality. Laxus' performance against Hades was certainly more impressive than Makarov's. He was the one who fought Hades, while Gildarts fought his second in command in Bluenote. Laxus was also the one who used his body as the medium for FT in the encounter with Acnologia. While Gildarts remained a bystander throughout.

Despite being suspended in frozen animation for seven years with the rest, Laxus defeated Jura in the GMG. The Jura who was the fifth WS, and favourite pastime is actually dedicating himself to training.

Spoiler

And the same Jura whose fight with Jellal was unconcluded with an ambiguous ending. Who knew with seven years of training, or obliterating dark guilds like Oracion Seis, how much of an improvement would Laxus have over his peers?

In addition, apart from the lightning dragon slayer lacrima in his body, Laxus never received any form of power up from anything. He did not have to unlock his Second Origin to make up for lost time and even the playing field. The same which cannot be said of these guys.

Spoiler

Laxus only gave, but didn't receive any power, aside from one handicap after another. Even other side characters such as Gajeel and Levy acquired shadow dragon slayer magic and second origin release respectively. Laxus obtained magic barrier particles which only cause him sickness and debilitating condition to fight. Doesn't matter though. Laxus is Laxus, so he still survives and win. He was taken out at the beginning because it would make zero sense for Laxus to not beat Mard Geer in Tartaros.

Laxus has came a long way, and matured into one of the strongest and dependable fighters. Not just on Ishgar's side, but the entire series. He has not taken any shortcuts while doing so, his growth rate is steady but constant, and the speed and potential he has blows someone like Jellal out of the water. I do feel Jellal reach the height of his potential far earlier than Laxus did. But from we have seen so far, we have enough reason to believe Laxus will end up the most powerful out of him, Gildarts, Jellal and Jura.

Food for thought, eh?

Great post my friend laxus is laxus people think we wank him because we admire him a lot when it was proven time and time again that laxus is just that powerful even hiro said he has trouble giving him decent fights because he just stomp hence why he needed to be handicap. Now I'm not saying he would beat all the top tier in the verse but he is definitely up there.

 

[Laxus chan-yo]

Spoiler

Come on now mate, you cannot be serious.

It was only explained recently the main reason why Zeref truly fears Acnologia is because Zeref himself knows he will suffer a fate worse than death. While Acnologia cannot kill him due to his immortality, neither can Zeref kill Acnologia due to the gap in their powers, and Acnologia's ability to eat magic. As such, Acnologia can essentially turn Zeref and Mavis into his stress ball/chew toy while he wipes out the rest of humanity. For eternity.

Spoiler

By absorbing FH, it gives Zeref the chance to compete against Acnologia. A fighting chance to defeat him, and avoid the fate he fears so. What good does it do if FH only supplies Zeref with purely unlimited supply of magic power? It would only serve to prolong his suffering. It is because we have seen that this source of magic power granted from FH enables Zeref additional powers and abilities, which actually translates into greater strength, for him to threaten Acnologia's reign. That was what Zeref and his empire was banking on since day one. Otherwise, FH is redundant.



Yes, indeed it did. Killing is an emphatic term, but it should be applied within context as to who it killed. Hades was already out of magic power, and by then was physically obsolete to put up a fight. We have no clue how it would perform against someone ready to thrown down the gauntlet. And I disagree with you to use power scaling, as we are all aware by now how screwed up it is in this series.



Again I beg to differ. Base on what was displayed during the exchange, Zeref's attacks were effortlessly intercepted and dispelled by Natsu. We have seen how Laxus can maneuvre his attacks from various angles, ranging from summoning them from external sources such as the skies, or the ground, expelling it from his body, for melee and from a distance, with rapid succession and little to no gestures which implies requiring time to charge or gather energy.

Some of us seem to have preconceived notions regarding the power level amongst the characters. However Laxus is one of the strongest base on both feats and portrayal. In his introduction, he completely resisted Mystogan's sleeping magic, while everyone else succumbed to it. Only Makarov was capable of withstanding it to an extent, but still affected him enough to cause drowsiness. During his fight with Mystogan, Laxus was hit with a spell that took so long to set up that Mystogan needed to use illusions to keep him occupied and buy himself sufficient time to cast it. When Laxus figured this out, he dispelled the illusion and just fired off an equally powerful attack instantly.

Laxus toyed with Erza, who was already strong enough to be a Wizard Saint then, and completely overwhelmed both Natsu and Gajeel in a handicap fight, once he unleashed his dragon slayer magic. Laxus arrogance was what led to his defeat. He was casting ridiculously powerful and costly spells when he never actually needed to. It caused him to wear himself out, and made it even possible, for Natsu to beat him.

However, he's since grown out of this and got rid of his teenage angst. In his fight with Hades, it was clear Mashima has already portrayed his fighting style to improve and became a lot more grounded and sensible in his approach and mentality. Laxus' performance against Hades was certainly more impressive than Makarov's. He was the one who fought Hades, while Gildarts fought his second in command in Bluenote. Laxus was also the one who used his body as the medium for FT in the encounter with Acnologia. While Gildarts remained a bystander throughout.

Despite being suspended in frozen animation for seven years with the rest, Laxus defeated Jura in the GMG. The Jura who was the fifth WS, and favourite pastime is actually dedicating himself to training.

Spoiler

And the same Jura whose fight with Jellal was unconcluded with an ambiguous ending. Who knew with seven years of training, or obliterating dark guilds like Oracion Seis, how much of an improvement would Laxus have over his peers?

In addition, apart from the lightning dragon slayer lacrima in his body, Laxus never received any form of power up from anything. He did not have to unlock his Second Origin to make up for lost time and even the playing field. The same which cannot be said of these guys.

Spoiler

Laxus only gave, but didn't receive any power, aside from one handicap after another. Even other side characters such as Gajeel and Levy acquired shadow dragon slayer magic and second origin release respectively. Laxus obtained magic barrier particles which only cause him sickness and debilitating condition to fight. Doesn't matter though. Laxus is Laxus, so he still survives and win. He was taken out at the beginning because it would make zero sense for Laxus to not beat Mard Geer in Tartaros.

Laxus has came a long way, and matured into one of the strongest and dependable fighters. Not just on Ishgar's side, but the entire series. He has not taken any shortcuts while doing so, his growth rate is steady but constant, and the speed and potential he has blows someone like Jellal out of the water. I do feel Jellal reach the height of his potential far earlier than Laxus did. But from we have seen so far, we have enough reason to believe Laxus will end up the most powerful out of him, Gildarts, Jellal and Jura.

Food for thought, eh?

I have no words Sempai

I am going to get a printout of this whole post, hire a calligrapher to inscribe it on high quality parchment, buy a gold plated frame for it, and hang it across my living room to ogle at every day.
Looking at the responses Zeref will win the vote but Laxus's new feats are upcoming. And then you people will see

I'm going to create a Zeref vs Laxus thread afterwards. You just watch.

 

[LaGOAT]

I have no words Sempai

I am going to get a printout of this whole post, hire a calligrapher to inscribe it on high quality parchment, buy a gold plated frame for it, and hang it across my living room to ogle at every day.
Looking at the responses Zeref will win the vote but Laxus's new feats are upcoming. And then you people will see

I'm going to create a Zeref vs Laxus thread afterwards. You just watch.

If laxus get DF and puts damage on acno(if he comes back) that puts him above zeref

 

[Jko]

@Jko laxus is top tier in the verse??

What? When did I say this? I constantly stated Laxus is far from top tier in the verse.