Luclec vs Gustang (No Okbi or Flame Spark)

V_TheHiddenAxis

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This is gustang without the Okbi or Eurasia's Flame spark. Lets assume gustang can be killed in this case and his immortality contract is removed.

Luslec was able to hold a restricted urek and made urek use 30% of his reinforcement without luslec himself going all out.

Who do you think wins?
 

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Gustang would win. First, I don't think Luslec spells would be complicated for Gustang to deal, he is a family head, there are means to deal with them like Urek said, and shinwonryu Itself is a very good way to deal with It.

Luslec is not a family head level threat. His best bet is to use the same spell to run away or stall Gustang for a moment. But would It be useful like It was against Urek, knowing Gustang has a lot of experience with spells and the means to deal with them? I doubt.

I think when people look at Gustang these days, they forget the guy's power is basically turning whatever he writes or reads into reality, but beyond that, he is a family head with physical stats of an irregular, flames capable of burning everything he understands, a shield strong enough to defend Vaam attacks, and an limitless arsenal of myths and stories that he can bring out from his library.

Luslec has been fightning mainly as a summoner. And I don't think he is a best summoner than any of Traumerei or Gustang. His two best techiques so far won't be useful against Gustang, which is the Vengeance spell and the space spell. He probably has an ultimate spell, but while we don't know what It does or the cost and contidions It would need to activate, It is useless to try to elevante him towards the same level as the people who are in the same class as his master and god, V.
 
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V_TheHiddenAxis

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Luslec is not a family head level threat. His best bet is to use the same spell to run away or stall Gustang for a moment.
I agree if the above is the extent of luslec's powers but he was able to tango a bit in cqc against urek himself and he is bound to have powerful offensive spells imo.
 

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I agree if the above is the extent of luslec's powers but he was able to tango a bit in cqc against urek himself and he is bound to have powerful offensive spells imo.
He went cqc against a 15% reinforcement Urek. He got speed blitzed when Urek went 25%, and then he started to slow down and pretend to be fighting after that point. Urek's gorgon's which is basically a 30% reinforcement punch completely dwarfed any of Luslec's physical feats.

Anyway, even If you think Luslec can tango with Gustang in CQC, Luslec's not showed any close combat skill that would do anything to Gustang.
 

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I don't think Luslec has shown an answer for Unos' intangibility (which Gustang also gets once he summons it). In general, being a spellcaster sounds like a pretty bad match-up against any FH due to their way of manipulating the Shinsu (Shinwonryu which destroys spells) and their knowledge (Gustang is probably among the ones who know most). Urek mentioned there are sophisticated ways to counter spells; no doubt Gustang would know them too.

Until there's something that shows otherwise, my money is on Gustang convincingly. To be clear, I don't think either has shown his limits yet, so there's room for some change.
 

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I stopped hyping about Gustang's library after Traumerei stopped doing that. Believe me, it was the coolest thing I could imagine, especially when he summoned Prometheus. Nevertheless, Gustang has the obvious advantages as he is an irregular and Luslec is not. Also shinwonryu is another thing.
But at the same time Gustang is terribly inconclusive and indecisive. Even more than how much Luslec is lazy.
Another point that makes this confrontation's result worth speculating is that Luslec has known Gustang and others for a considerable amount of time as well, so he should have developed a strategy against them. It will probably be like an asymmetric warfare imo, hit and run.
If Luslec finds a way to kill, he will, if Gustang finds a way, he won't, and we have seen a lot of such instances lately.
 

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He went cqc against a 15% reinforcement Urek. He got speed blitzed when Urek went 25%, and then he started to slow down and pretend to be fighting after that point. Urek's gorgon's which is basically a 30% reinforcement punch completely dwarfed any of Luslec's physical feats.

Anyway, even If you think Luslec can tango with Gustang in CQC, Luslec's not showed any close combat skill that would do anything to Gustang.
It was nice firework attack by Urek, but like shown on panel, it had 0 damage. Luslec came out without a scratch on his body
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I stopped hyping about Gustang's library after Traumerei stopped doing that. Believe me, it was the coolest thing I could imagine, especially when he summoned Prometheus. Nevertheless, Gustang has the obvious advantages as he is an irregular and Luslec is not. Also shinwonryu is another thing.
But at the same time Gustang is terribly inconclusive and indecisive. Even more than how much Luslec is lazy.
Another point that makes this confrontation's result worth speculating is that Luslec has known Gustang and others for a considerable amount of time as well, so he should have developed a strategy against them. It will probably be like an asymmetric warfare imo, hit and run.
If Luslec finds a way to kill, he will, if Gustang finds a way, he won't, and we have seen a lot of such instances lately.
Another point to consider. Yes, Luslec knows everything about Gustang and the rest, just like Gustang claims to know all about V's tricks. They were all together for a long time. However...It might not necessarily be true that Gustang knows all about Luslec's tricks, because let's face it. The luslec we have "currently" is not the same "luslec" that fought against Arie Hon all that years ago. A lot has changed and I think that includes his fighting style, the type of power he uses etc.

Now of course most would argue that none of that matters as Luslec is still a towerborn and can't compete with a FH...but I'll stick with my "He'll win easily" just because he's way cooler.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

 

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It was nice firework attack by Urek, but like shown on panel, it had 0 damage. Luslec came out without a scratch on his body

Interesting, didn't know Urek hit Luslec with Gorgons fist.

Musta missed it ngl.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Eitherway Gustang wins easy, every famy head is the worst enemy of spells, especially Gustang.
 

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Urek is really a convenient plot device. The fact that there are people who seem to genuinely believe that Luslec could win is insane.
 

maverickframe_19

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You know I love Luslec; he's my guy, but essentially this is an irregular vs. tower-born.

You would be crazy to place your bets on a tower born to win against an irregular. This is just the facts of the matter for now. Unless SIU shows us convincingly that towerborns have a method to kill an irregular, I will hold my hands up, but irregulars are special. In a way, they are an anomaly in the tower's system.

But this fight will be close essentially because current Luslec have been planning for a lot of time, plus what is that other half of that body that has Arlene's eyes?

I remember when fighting urek, there is a line where he says it's not very easy to injure this body of mine. Maybe because part of his body is irregular?

I think Gustang wins, but this is no means to say that Luslec won't give Gustang some lifelong scars.

But shout-out to Luslec. Clean mf. I like him a lot.
 

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This is not fair fight tbh, if it was Gustang vs Yiwha in that case it would be hard to predict the outcome...
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I remember when fighting urek, there is a line where he says it's not very easy to injure this body of mine. Maybe because part of his body is irregular?

I think Gustang wins, but this is no means to say that Luslec won't give Gustang some lifelong scars.

But shout-out to Luslec. Clean mf. I like him a lot.
Watch Luslec being Arlene reincarnated and we get rematch of : V+Arlene vs Zahard + FHs
 

arrowofsky

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This is not fair fight tbh, if it was Gustang vs Yiwha in that case it would be hard to predict the outcome...
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Of courses you can just belittle him without any argument other than "he was towerborn". I would not be surprised if he suddenly be declared to be another hidden irregular at some point.

At the very least, though, you can elaborate on your easy to predict outcome and contribute something to the discussion :)


Watch Luslec being Arlene reincarnated and we get rematch of : V+Arlene vs Zahard + FHs
People think similar to the Naruto case where the Hashimara Senju parts were being used like crazy. It might be similar, but Luslec was not nothing before this "new body" anyway. I believe some good amount of Arlene-related information is only few chapters away, so we will see soon.
 

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Of courses you can just belittle him without any argument other than "he was towerborn". I would not be surprised if he suddenly be declared to be another hidden irregular at some point.

At the very least, though, you can elaborate on your easy to predict outcome and contribute something to the discussion :)




People think similar to the Naruto case where the Hashimara Senju parts were being used like crazy. It might be similar, but Luslec was not nothing before this "new body" anyway. I believe some good amount of Arlene-related information is only few chapters away, so we will see soon.
If I really need to be serious in a discussion of Tower Borns vs Irregulars I’m afraid that’s really going too far.
 

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If I really need to be serious in a discussion of Tower Borns vs Irregulars I’m afraid that’s really going too far.
I think part of the problem is how Siu writes and his inability to properly explain things. The biggest problem of course being the immortality contracts.

If the Family Heads and jahad was so invincible and godlike compared to the rest of the "vermin" in the Tower, why would they need contracts to guarantee that nobody can kill them?

Used to believe that the contracts were that none of them could kill each other or themselves(as shown by Arlene) but then Traumerei killed Gustang and Gustang is trying to kill Traumerei. The entire fight made it seem like they could still kill each other for some reason, but they can't kill themselves(Arlene). Unless the administrator himself approved of the entire thing and made the adjustments just for the fight etc but it's siu...he doesn't think that far.

So what do they need the contracts for? Why would they need contracts that can protect them from dying at the hands of tower born, since it's obvious that the contracts is not to protect themselves from each other? That's kind of like saying that tower born are powerful enough to kill them. Or at the very least there used to be a lot more towerborn capable of killing them. Perhaps with their immortality and their "ganging up" they managed to gnaw away at those that were stronger than them over time. Even Yirang said that there's hardly anyone stronger than them now. As if to suggest that there are at least a few...

And if there were a few stronger than them in the past, why can't there be in the present? Or the future? Why can't Luslec(WIth the help of V and Arlene perhaps) have figured out a way for him to become at least as powerful as the family leaders? It should be obvious for anyone reading that the luslec of today is not the same as the luslec that fought Arie Hon.

I just look at the facts of Jahad and the rest of the people's actions:

Would there have been a need to eradicate an entire specie if that specie did not pose a threat?
Would there have been a need to curse an entire specie to not be able to reproduce, if the descendants of that specie could not pose a threat?
Was it perhaps true that none of them could have posed any real problem to the Family Heads if it wasn't for V? ie V sharing his power and enabling everyone in the tower to evolve made it so that there were people in there that became even more powerful than the irregulars themselves?

What was it that the family heads tried to protect themselves from where they had to gain immortality?

I think we can't rule out all of the tower born completely and I also think we cannot rule out Luslec completely as He, and some others might possibly really be at least Family Head level. Else those contracts are meaningless.

Hell, I was more impressed by the scale and magnitude of Luslec just entering Dark Twist than anything shown from Gustang/Traumerei in their battle.
 

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I think part of the problem is how Siu writes and his inability to properly explain things. The biggest problem of course being the immortality contracts.

If the Family Heads and jahad was so invincible and godlike compared to the rest of the "vermin" in the Tower, why would they need contracts to guarantee that nobody can kill them?

Used to believe that the contracts were that none of them could kill each other or themselves(as shown by Arlene) but then Traumerei killed Gustang and Gustang is trying to kill Traumerei. The entire fight made it seem like they could still kill each other for some reason, but they can't kill themselves(Arlene). Unless the administrator himself approved of the entire thing and made the adjustments just for the fight etc but it's siu...he doesn't think that far.

So what do they need the contracts for? Why would they need contracts that can protect them from dying at the hands of tower born, since it's obvious that the contracts is not to protect themselves from each other? That's kind of like saying that tower born are powerful enough to kill them. Or at the very least there used to be a lot more towerborn capable of killing them. Perhaps with their immortality and their "ganging up" they managed to gnaw away at those that were stronger than them over time. Even Yirang said that there's hardly anyone stronger than them now. As if to suggest that there are at least a few...

And if there were a few stronger than them in the past, why can't there be in the present? Or the future? Why can't Luslec(WIth the help of V and Arlene perhaps) have figured out a way for him to become at least as powerful as the family leaders? It should be obvious for anyone reading that the luslec of today is not the same as the luslec that fought Arie Hon.

I just look at the facts of Jahad and the rest of the people's actions:

Would there have been a need to eradicate an entire specie if that specie did not pose a threat?
Would there have been a need to curse an entire specie to not be able to reproduce, if the descendants of that specie could not pose a threat?
Was it perhaps true that none of them could have posed any real problem to the Family Heads if it wasn't for V? ie V sharing his power and enabling everyone in the tower to evolve made it so that there were people in there that became even more powerful than the irregulars themselves?

What was it that the family heads tried to protect themselves from where they had to gain immortality?

I think we can't rule out all of the tower born completely and I also think we cannot rule out Luslec completely as He, and some others might possibly really be at least Family Head level. Else those contracts are meaningless.

Hell, I was more impressed by the scale and magnitude of Luslec just entering Dark Twist than anything shown from Gustang/Traumerei in their battle.
If you want my honest opinion on this...

SIU just retconned it.

He initially wanted all irregulars to be immortal between themselves and therefore there was a need for V (from storytelling perspective) to NOT take a contract, that way it was possible to kill him without need to explain how it happened. Now he just decided they can kill each others and suddenly as you say immortality contract doesn't make a lot of sense.

People came up with the reasoning how "You accept your contract, but others don't so they can kill you" and bunch of other different justifications for why Traum was able to kill Gustang... problem is, SIU should have explained it himself.

If others could kill you all along and Arlene wanted to die so badly she could have just asked from other great warriors to do her a favor and kill her, or just be a total badass and pull an "Enryu" - provoke an administrator to fight you and get killed like that...
 

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If you want my honest opinion on this...

SIU just retconned it.

He initially wanted all irregulars to be immortal between themselves and therefore there was a need for V (from storytelling perspective) to NOT take a contract, that way it was possible to kill him without need to explain how it happened. Now he just decided they can kill each others and suddenly as you say immortality contract doesn't make a lot of sense.

People came up with the reasoning how "You accept your contract, but others don't so they can kill you" and bunch of other different justifications for why Traum was able to kill Gustang... problem is, SIU should have explained it himself.

If others could kill you all along and Arlene wanted to die so badly she could have just asked from other great warriors to do her a favor and kill her, or just be a total badass and pull an "Enryu" - provoke an administrator to fight you and get killed like that...

Nah, don't think there was a retcon, it's been that way for the longest time.

Example.

From season 2 in the FOD we already got clues, when Urek threatened to kill Gustang if he didn't hand over Hell Joe's soul he wasn't joking.

People for the some time were claiming it's not possible for Urek to kill a FH but that situation was much too serious to ignore.

So it goes like this.

Only an irregular can void the immortality contract but FH's can't kill themselves is the whole deal and also can't just attack eachother willy nilly.

That's the reason we have this great match and the administrator sign off in the first place.
 

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Nah, don't think there was a retcon, it's been that way for the longest time.

Example.

From season 2 in the FOD we already got clues, when Urek threatened to kill Gustang if he didn't hand over Hell Joe's soul he wasn't joking.

People for the some time were claiming it's not possible for Urek to kill a FH but that situation was much too serious to ignore.

So it goes like this.

Only an irregular can void the immortality contract but FH's can't kill themselves is the whole deal and also can't just attack eachother willy nilly.

That's the reason we have this great match and the administrator sign off in the first place.
But Urek is an irregular free from the contract as he wasn't part of the group of 13 GW. He CAN kill Family heads same way as Baam can or any other irregular that came after 13 Great warriors. But I'm saying here that 13 GW should not be able to kill each others between themselves.
 

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But Urek is an irregular free from the contract as he wasn't part of the group of 13 GW. He CAN kill Family heads same way as Baam can or any other irregular that came after 13 Great warriors. But I'm saying here that 13 GW should not be able to kill each others between themselves.
Hm, but isn't it precisely because they can't just kill eachother that the great match and administrator sign off was needed?

We know they can't commit suicide at least so self harm is useless to the great warriors, but them being able to kill eachother isn't as easy either is the way I see it
 
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