Discussion Luffy Discussion Thread

[kkck]

So a crackpot theory regarding gear 5, if that will be a thing:

Honestly, I don't see what else luffy could do with his body to further boost himself. So far its either pumping air into his muscles or bones or accelerating his blood flow. And.. that is it. There should be nothing else that determines a person's strength or speed that luffy could manipulate with his ability. I suppose there is haki to increase his hardness and manipulate his elasticity but presumably that is already a factor in his gears, specially gear 4.

So... the question for a future gear would be what luffy could manipulate and how to result in further strength, speed and endurance. A theory I've written before is something like giantman form... Basically luffy just combines all gears and becomes a giant. He has already used techniques which apparently combine gear 3 and 4 so this would be a step further.

And now a new theory... Following the principles of laid before by a hypothetical giantman form. Compression man. Basically rather than inflating everything and turning into a giant luffy pumps air into himself and rather than simply inflating, he uses his haki to remain in a basically human form. Thus increasing his bone and muscles density. Basically the compressed power of gear 3 and 4. And potentially gear 2 could be at play as well. In my head luffy would also be able to simply release his muscles compression on contact with an enemy this his limbs dramatically increasing in size upon contact for extra swagger when fighting. Basically, this would be the culmination of luffy's fighting style, condensing everything he has developed into a single absurdly powerful form. I suppose this form isn't mutually exclusive with my previous idea of giant man so perhaps luffy could switch at his convenient between the two. Since he'd simply have to manipulate his elasticity to switch...

 

[Rmstorm]

Luffy needs Awakening to be on Prime Roger's level, due to the haki bloom he will have acquired by the end of this fight.

Also Conquerors Haki gets stronger by the user getting stronger. So it will grow in this fight and will grow more when gets Awakening.

 

[King Moe]

Luffy needs Awakening to be on Prime Roger's level, due to the haki bloom he will have acquired by the end of this fight.

Also Conquerors Haki gets stronger by the user getting stronger. So it will grow in this fight and will grow more when gets Awakening.

What are new attacks you think Luffy can do now with his Adv. COC?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy needs Awakening to be on Prime Roger's level, due to the haki bloom he will have acquired by the end of this fight.

Also Conquerors Haki gets stronger by the user getting stronger. So it will grow in this fight and will grow more when gets Awakening.

Roger didn't need a DF to be on Prime Roger level.

Anything Luffy gets beyond what he has right now: Advanced CoA, Advanced CoO, Advanced CoC, Gears 2-4.... Put him above Roger.

The onlything stopping us from saying Luffy is Prime Roger Level right now is refinement and mastery of the techniques he already is utilizing.

With the addition of Advanced CoC Oda leveled the playing field of all of the top tiers. With Advanced CoC whatever imagined weakness one has against a particular fighting style is null and void. (Example being the false arguement that Luffy is somehow weaker to sharpness (swords/spears/knives) than a regular human)

Mastery of all Advanced Haki + Awakening puts him solidly above Prime Roger Level

 

[XXGenesis]

We can’t say Luffy is Yonkou lv or above until he solo’s somebody on that lv.

Start of Wano Luffy is High Commander lv
Only a few commanders around his Lv, King, Katakuri, Marco, Beckman etc

Learning advanced CoA he learned he could also use it internally for his attacks. This has allowed him to damage Kaido, but it still wasn’t anywhere enough.

Kaido in his human form traded blows with Luffy, & Luffy was on the losing end...His Beast Form, Luffy was supported by Zoro & other SN then endeavored through a Boro blast to shortly after run out of steam. Hybrid Kaido then brought the pain. But Luffy won’t stay down, & has hit back With advanced CoC .

So yes Luffy has finally cracked Yonkou lv, but he just got there.

 

[King Moe]

Luffy is now reaching more close to Yonko level and could say he is on same tier or more with Macro. Also to think we still haven't seen his full power along with DF's Awakening, so Luffy can really get to a powerful point even beyond what Roger can do.

 

[XXGenesis]

Luffy is now reaching more close to Yonko level and could say he is on same tier or more with Macro. Also to think we still haven't seen his full power along with DF's Awakening, so Luffy can really get to a powerful point even beyond what Roger can do.

Yes Luffy will be stronger than Roger. Of course.

Luffy With internal CoA attacks & Marco on the same tier. The Luffy we just saw Kaido defeat. I’ll say

Luffy with CoC attacks is Yonkou lv. He’s there, just that his entire fight with Kaido wasn’t 1 vs 1 & Kaido did sustain accumulative damage from all SN besides Luffy.....There’s Law Gamna Knife & Injection Shot, Killers Sound attack; Zoro’s Asura.

So Luffy with CoC can handle a Yonkou 1 vs 1. It’s semantics to say he’s mid or low lv. He’s Yonkou lv screw it. The end of the Kaido battle will show us he can take them down by himself from now on

*Yes I changed my mind. ^last paragraphh sums it

 

[King Moe]

Yes Luffy will be stronger than Roger. Of course.

Luffy With internal CoA attacks & Marco on the same tier. The Luffy we just saw Kaido defeat. I’ll say

Luffy with CoC attacks is Yonkou lv. He’s there, just that his entire fight with Kaido wasn’t 1 vs 1 & Kaido did sustain accumulative damage from all SN besides Luffy.....There’s Law Gamna Knife & Injection Shot, Killers Sound attack; Zoro’s Asura.

So Luffy with CoC can handle a Yonkou 1 vs 1. It’s semantics to say he’s mid or low lv. He’s Yonkou lv screw it. The end of the Kaido battle will show us he can take them down by himself from now on

*Yes I changed my mind. ^last paragraphh sums it

Yeah, it pretty obvious Luffy and his crew will reach new level on their power if they want surpass old Legends. Also don't forget Kidd and his attacks. Makes me wonder if Kidd will soon start doing COC attacks given he is COC as well and feel Law can do so on his side too.

 

[catagon87]

Unpopular opinions:
Luffy vs Doflamingo was a fair / even fight.
Doflamingo front-loaded Luffy's battle forcing him to fight through armies of his soldiers to reach the top of Dressrosa.
The fight was not Law and Luffy vs Doflamingo. It was Law and Luffy vs. Doflamingo, Trebol and Bellamy.
The help Luffy received from citizens is fine because Doflamingo had help from his soldiers wearing Luffy down initially, as well as the Corrida Coliseum.

Luffy vs Cracker was a shitty way to judge Luffy's capabilities for the better part of 2 years.
Cracker's abilities heavily favor combatting multiple enemies. People will argue up and down that Nami is weak as hell, but as soon as she's in a position of use, assisting Luffy against his first Yonko Commander, people are all up Oda's ass about it.
Pirate battles are those with no rules, and using deceit and unfair tactics to win is completely acceptable, just like when Luffy brushed off the attack he received from Katakuri due to unknown aid from the latter's sister. Even the strongest creature, Kaido, attacked Oden from behind.

 

[Ellenate]

Luffy vs Doflamingo was a fair / even fight.

In the sense that if there wasn't some sort of balancing luffy would've/should've lost... yeah.

Doflamingo front-loaded Luffy's battle forcing him to fight through armies of his soldiers to reach the top of Dressrosa.

That's what comes when attacking someone of Dof's stature...

When you talk about heavy hitters in this world, a bulk of their actual power comes from their crews.

If you can't overcome their forces, you can't legitimately "fight" them.

The help Luffy received from citizens...

Luffy having to constantly rely on forces outside of his own for victories, illustrates the gap in power between him, and the upper echelon of the world.

-even if he can swing at em, he'll never be on their level without a competent crew (the SH fleet should've been in wano, i don't care what anyone says).

Luffy vs Cracker was a shitty way to judge Luffy's capabilities for the better part of 2 years.

I'd say it was a very clear look at his capabilities or lack thereof.

It was largely a missed opportunity to showcase (expand on) luffy's battle prowess...

In pre there were glimpses of it but...

Timeskip? He's bruteforce or bust.

as soon as she's in a position of use, assisting Luffy against his first Yonko Commander

They're a pirate crew, they SHOULD fight together. They never do though...

Half the crew didn't even show up to Wci (which, even given the rational of already having prior obligations. if luffy were to have died, everything would've been for naught.) Really an absurd moment, along with half the crew leaving mid Dressorosa.

but-

Back to the cracker fight...


Luffy did his own thing in that battle, until he was incapacitated, and nami was left protecting him (much like the rooftop battle with kaido). She would later find out cracker's weakness but there was never really any teamwork between the two.

To hit on the brute-force thing again...

There was a river in the forest he was fighting in, he didn't need nami. If he would've thought, for even a second, he could've figured out the water weakness for himself. He's done such thinking with enimes like crocodile.

The fight would've been a great way of showcasing his growth, that even when faced with such a harsh mismatch, he can still come out on top-

but nope...

Even with nami support, the best he came up with was to f***ing eating them.


*sigh*


In conclusion.. Luffy is an idiot.

 

[XXGenesis]

I think the manga has made it a point many of times. Luffy doesn’t care if he is assisted because he knows there are things he cannot do; So he leaves it up to his Nakama to be capable when he isn’t.

All of Luffy’s win, he’s has some type of odd luck or assistance from friends or acquaintance

 

[M3J]

Both of those are part of Luffy's traits and skills though. Hasn't it been mentioned how luck has played a part in Roger's success as well? And Luffy getting assistance shows his ability to make friends and allies, people who are willing to put their lives on the line for him, like that announcer on Dressrosa.

 

[Ellenate]

shows his ability to make friends and allies, people who are willing to put their lives on the line for him, like that announcer on Dressrosa.

Which has always been a big whoop for me-

If you see the guy that has beaten the crap out of you, for the past decade, getting jumped-

You're likely to cheer it on.

It's not a skill, ANYONE doing what he does/did, would get the same reception.

Also, these "allies" have nothing to lose, and everything to gain by helping him. *cough* X Drake *cough*

Hasn't it been mentioned how luck has played a part in Roger's success as well?

Luck doesn't play a part in Luffy's success; it's the determining factor.

You look at his ally making, there's little skill, or conscious effort involved.

Take a character like Naruto. He has the ability to make friends/allies.

Luffy though, no. It's all just by chance.


---

Don't get it f***ed though. The manga obviously TRIES to portray him as such... I just think it's done poorly.

There's a dissonance between what Oda wants (...i assume) to portray and what he makes.

...I assume Oda wanted us to have faith in luffy, given that recent scene between Sanji/chooper, but all i got from it was "death cult". I remember people being upset that Chopper broke free from Luffy's hypnosis, that he finally saw the emperor had no clothes. His crew should be worried- he lead them all to their deaths, with little to no plan. *cough* whitebeard *cough*

 

[Pirate Queen]

Even the WSS knows to fear Luffy


Haters just don't get it.

He possess a quality that makes people WANT to help him. A true King among the peasants who doubt him!

(only half joking)

 

[M3J]

Which has always been a big whoop for me-

If you see the guy that has beaten the crap out of you, for the past decade, getting jumped-

You're likely to cheer it on.

It's not a skill, ANYONE doing what he does/did, would get the same reception.

Also, these "allies" have nothing to lose, and everything to gain by helping him. *cough* X Drake *cough*

But you're also not likely to risk your life to help the enemy's enemy, are you? Or even cheer for the guy beating up your enemy in case he loses. Not everyone would get the same reaction or reception, otherwise Oda wouldn't point out that trait of Luffy's to gather allies to his cause. Buggy wouldn't help Luffy if Luffy didn't have that charisma to him.

Many of them have their lives to lose, but Luffy makes them ignore their lives to help him succeed, even if they die.;

Luck doesn't play a part in Luffy's success; it's the determining factor.

You look at his ally making, there's little skill, or conscious effort involved.

Take a character like Naruto. He has the ability to make friends/allies.

Luffy though, no. It's all just by chance.

Potato potahto, it's still a mix of luck, Luffy's charisma (usually), and his willpower.

No, it's all by his own personality.

 

[Ellenate]

But you're also not likely to risk your life to help the enemy's enemy, are you?

Name the circumstance.

Not everyone would get the same reaction or reception

Ok, given an example.

Buggy wouldn't help Luffy if Luffy didn't have that charisma to him.

You mean in Impel Down?
Where they were both imprisoned?

Many of them have their lives to lose, but Luffy makes them ignore their lives to help him succeed, even if they die.

Most of these people have been shown ready to die before luffy showed up-

Potato potahto, it's still a mix of luck, Luffy's charisma (usually), and his willpower.

Luck is the biggest factor with the others playing minor roles.

He has no charisma. He's just in the right place, at the right time.

His willpower means jack if there's nothing to back it. He gets out skilled in almost every match-up and only pulls through due to luck.

No, it's all by his own personality.

and what exactly is that personality?

 

[M3J]

You mean in Impel Down?
Where they were both imprisoned?

No, I mean Marineford, where Buggy could have hid or not even bothered to help. Mr. 3 even protected Ace and made a wax key to free him as well on Luffy's requests.

Luffy even won over Jinbei, who protected Luffy with his life and is probably the main reason why Luffy survived that war.

Most of these people have been shown ready to die before luffy showed up-

Majority barely did anything until Luffy showed up and showed they had a chance. Show me most of these people were taking action before Luffy got there.

Luck is the biggest factor with the others playing minor roles.

He has no charisma. He's just in the right place, at the right time.

His willpower means jack if there's nothing to back it. He gets out skilled in almost every match-up and only pulls through due to luck.

No, either willpower is or luck and willpower, but he wouldn't be winning without his determination to win, and without people helping him because they want to. He gets outskilled in most of his matches, but that's what sets him apart, he just refuses to give up.

Manga shows otherwise when it comes to his charisma and ability to make people his allies.

and what exactly is that personality?

I'm not sure if me explaining will answer that if the manga hasn't.

 

[Ellenate]

No, I mean Marineford, where Buggy could have hid or not even bothered to help.

He was playing the prisoners and ended up finessing a warlord position. He wasn't just there for Luffy's sake.

Luffy even won over Jinbei, who protected Luffy with his life and is probably the main reason why Luffy survived that war.

Whitebeard explicitly told them all to help Luffy...

Majority barely did anything until Luffy showed up

Skypiea. Fighting for years...
Alabasta. Infiltrated Baroque Works...
Arlong park. Luffy wasn't even in the arc until the end...
Dressorosa. Public were oblivious to Doflamingo being bad...
Wano. Everyone that fought back was thrown in prison...
Drum Island. Dolton was defeated...
Thriller bark. collecting shadows, figured out Moria's weakness...

They did plenty and in some cases laid the groundwork for overcoming whatever threat there was.

Manga shows otherwise when it comes to his charisma and ability to make people his allies.

Where that grandfleet of allies at during his back-to-back showdown with yonkos?

The manga might be saying stuff but it ain't showing it. Half of his own crew didn't even bother to help him with Wci.

I'm not sure if me explaining will answer that if the manga hasn't.

You couldn't... cause he doesn't have one.

Perhaps in pre there was some resemblance of a personality but there's nothing there anymore- he's just a mass of instinct, personified by shonen tropes.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

If luffy sees coby fighting with hancock, what would he do? I mean, both of them are his friends

 

[Rein Avara]

He'd help Hancock, he and Coby are from different factions. He owes the amazons a life debt I don't see why he'd bother helping Coby. I'm sure he would ensure that he wasn't killed, but that's about it.