Theory Luffy's Dream

Fox666

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Actually I think what Luffy said defies logic and common sense.

Wasn't for the fact that Roger was not a Devil Fruit user, I would have guessed Luffy said he wanted to learn how to swim.
 

Vanshrimp

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Since luffy seems to be the opposite of teach (light vs darkness), at least according to the first time they met (that pie and drink scene to be more precise) ,can we imply that teach's dream is luffy's worst nightmare and vice-versa ?
 

Hannibal Psyche

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But why Usopp called that "impossible"?

Roger already did it, so it's possible.
Not necessarily, someone doing something doesn't mean another person saying they'll do the same thing is also possible.
I am going to build an online website that's used by everyone in the world.
Just because Jeff Bezos has done it doesn't mean it's necessarily possible for me to do the same thing.
Not all possible things are possible to another person.

In terms of being the greatest pirate, Luffy is already in the top 4 of the world.
No Pirate has surpassed Roger.
Many Pirates have been top 4, Shanks, WB, Shiki, Big Mom, Rocks... none of them were able to surpass Roger.

In fact, I might be inclined to believe Luffy's goal is to surpass Roger.
 

grey matter

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I think we shouldn't complicate things.

It's a dream that a 7 year old Luffy, who should be dumb for even his age, can cook up in his wacky head.

WB was wondering if Roger was retarded when he heard his dream, and called him a child.


Things like opening all borders, destroying red line (Luffy most likely didn't even know of it's existence then), equality or egalitarianism etc. All go out of the window
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Thinking about it, look at what Roger said to WB and Oden, he said he'll be the greatest pirate in the world, and they both laughed at him.



We know Luffy said the same thing as Roger, so it is quite possible Luffy has pretty much said he will become the greatest pirate meaning surpassing Roger.
Shanks gave Luffy Roger's hat only after he said this, and in the previous page, he said he'll find the greatest treasure in the world.
Luffy's dream is supposedly to surpass Roger (the greatest pirate atm) while Roger's goal was to become the greatest Pirate.
 

grey matter

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Thinking about it, look at what Roger said to WB and Oden, he said he'll be the greatest pirate in the world, and they both laughed at him.



We know Luffy said the same thing as Roger, so it is quite possible Luffy has pretty much said he will become the greatest pirate meaning surpassing Roger.
Shanks gave Luffy Roger's hat only after he said this, and in the previous page, he said he'll find the greatest treasure in the world.
Luffy's dream is supposedly to surpass Roger (the greatest pirate atm) while Roger's goal was to become the greatest Pirate.

That's definitely not it.
Roger was already the greatest pirate of his era. It was "Roger's era" for a reason.

WB was the only one capable of challenging him, and he wasn't interested.

Why would WB and Oden laugh at Roger saying he wants to be the greatest pirate, if he was already one (or at least top 2)?
WB specifically thought Roger was a childish bafoon, for whatever dream it was. It should be a dream that a 7 year old Luffy can also cook up, a very childish one.

Luffy's dream is something which apparently necessitates becoming the greatest pirate, not becoming that by itself. I mean, this is confirmed even in the last chapter itself.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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That's definitely not it.
I disagree with you.

It could possibly be it.

Roger was already the greatest pirate of his era. It was "Roger's era" for a reason.
Never said otherwise.

My point was Luffy possibly aims to be greater than Roger.

Becoming the greatest in any era means doing better than what your predecessor did.

Roger's goal was initially believed to be impossible.

Not farfetched to say surpassing what was taught to be impossible to be even more impossible. If Roger's achievement is impossible, then it certainly makes sense to be surprised by Luffy's goal and it also makes sense of Shanks saying Luffy said the same thing Roger said.

Why would WB and Oden laugh at Roger saying he wants to be the greatest pirate, if he was already one (or at least top 2)?


I think you don't understand something.

Finding the One Piece and conquering the Grand line is something that was called impossible for 800 years.

For 800 years, other people had tried to find the One Piece, and they never did. People didn't even believe it was real, they thought it was a joke at some point. That's why Oden and Whitebeard laughed, because the idea of finding this apparently great treasure that hadn't bee found for 800 years seemed absurd.

Whitebeard was only number 2 because Roger did something that no on else had. Roger and WHitebeard were relatively equal in strength, however, in terms of achievement, Roger surpassed every pirate, he found something that wasn't discovered for 800 years.



Furthermore, even 20 years after Roger died, people still do not believe One Piece exists, they think it's a joke.
Bellamy laughed at Luffy for saying he will find the One Piece, he said it was a myth.



When someone says they'll do something impossible, it's deemed as childish and stupid, that's why Kid said when he said he will find OP, people laughed at him, so he killed them.

Remember when Blackbeard said OP really exists? It's because most people don't believe it exists. Like Skypiea Isdland, people called it a myth, One Piece is seen as a myth, a legend that isn't real.

Thus why Whitebeard in his death had to reiterate ONE PIECE Exists. Why say it exists if it's common knowledge? Most of the world don't believe it.

We take it for granted, the claim about OP and being Pirate King, most of the world believe it is a joke and don't believe it exists. We as readers have knowledge the people of OP don't.




Even before Big Mom was defeated, she asked... does it really exist?

So, when Roger said he'll find the greatest treasure (one piece) Whitebeard and Oden laughed because it seemed silly because no one knew it existed. The idea of some fantastic treasure just seemed like a "ROMANTIC IDEA" thus romance dawn.

Even now, people don't know it really exists, only Roger's crew knows that for sure.

It's like someone telling you there is a billion dollars that can be found somewhere, and no one finds it for 100 years. Of course you'd believe it's a lie. This is something that has not been proven for 800 years.
People still don't believe Roger, so the idea of doing something greater than Roger would indeed seem impossible.
 

baditz

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For some reason i think Luffy dream will relate to her mom,,
Like his mom are his inspiration for this dream.
 

Riku

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Honestly, if the dream is just to be bigger pirate that Roger, I don't see why to tease us about it. It's kinda imbued in the "I'm gonna be pirate king!". And it hard to think what the exact same words of Luffy and Roger would have been.

Besides wasn't Aces dream to be the strongest and grandest pirate? How is it different from Luffys "silly" dream?
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Honestly, if the dream is just to be bigger pirate that Roger, I don't see why to tease us about it. It's kinda imbued in the "I'm gonna be pirate king!"
Not really, becoming Pirate King is not the same as surpassing Pirate King.

To surpass the Pirate King, you have to be Pirate King and do something beyond that.

Don't think anyone is even saying that's what Luffy and Roger said, so far, it's the only idea that fits the criteria:
Something both Roger and Luffy said.
Something Childish/Crazy.
And being the greatest pirate who finds the greatest treasure is the 1 thing so far suggested that fits that criteria.

Unless you or anyone can suggest something else that seems more plausible and meets the criteria.

Besides wasn't Aces dream to be the strongest and grandest pirate? How is it different from Luffys "silly" dream?
Not sure if that was his dream, pretty sure it was just to prove his life wasn't worthless by defeating the strongest pirate to get recognised.

Lufy's goal isn't to be the strongest, that's definitely not it. We do know 1 fact for sure is Luffy has said he will find the greatest treasure in the world and become the greatest pirate which is the only thing we know Roger and Luffy have in common so far.
 

Lord Rayleigh

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Thinking about it, look at what Roger said to WB and Oden, he said he'll be the greatest pirate in the world, and they both laughed at him.



We know Luffy said the same thing as Roger, so it is quite possible Luffy has pretty much said he will become the greatest pirate meaning surpassing Roger.
Shanks gave Luffy Roger's hat only after he said this, and in the previous page, he said he'll find the greatest treasure in the world.
Luffy's dream is supposedly to surpass Roger (the greatest pirate atm) while Roger's goal was to become the greatest Pirate.
I am dumbstruck that you could post something with so much lack of sense, evidence and creativity at the same time.

Sense
  • Why would Oda make so much importance of their hidden dreams if it was just that?
  • Why would WB, Oden and SHs say it is impossible to a peak Roger and a Yonko captain Luffy?
Evidence
  • Roger said that once he travels throughout all of the Grand Line and finds the last island the Roger Pirates will become the greatest pirate group in all history (= Pirate King), and that then … = HIDDEN DREAM
  • Luffy said that he had a dream beyond being Pirate King, and SHs commented that it was impossible, and that in the best scenario it would be impossible without being the Pirate King
Creativity
  • Do I really need to comment on how much this is boring for a 2-3 decades manga that has such an amazing and wild world?
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Do I really need to comment on how much this is boring for a 2-3 decades manga that has such an amazing and wild world?
Irrelevant. Oda could give faecal matter about what you think is creative or not, he does what he wants.

Oda doesn't write this story to make you happy or based on what you find interesting, Oda doesn't care about your opinion or your preference. Story doesn't revolve around you bud. Barely knows you remotely even exist.

I am dumbstruck that you could post something with so much lack of sense, evidence and creativity at the same time.
You just lack understanding is all.

Why would Oda make so much importance of their hidden dreams if it was just that?
I never said what it was, I said what it could be, I'm speculating, maybe try to understand the meaning of speculation.

Roger said that once he travels throughout all of the Grand Line and finds the last island the Roger Pirates will become the greatest pirate group in all history (= Pirate King), and that then … = HIDDEN DREAM


Actually, what Roger said was that if he found the greatest treasure in the world, he would become the greatest pirate in the world.

Roger pretty much said he will have the greatest CREW for finding great treasure... and he will be known as what?

Can you read what he said? I'll BE... be what? Doesn't take a genius bud, I'll be Pirate King. That's what Oden and Whitebeard found childish.

What Roger essentially said is he'll be the greatest pirate.. so the idea that Luffy saying the same can't be what he said is laughable when you can't even suggest something remotely better.

Do your research bud. Just requires reading.
 

kkck

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The implication so far appears to be that roger's and luffy's dream is the same. Luffy has proclaimed way too many times that he is going to be pirate king. And yet its only recently that his crew found out about this. Roger definitely didn't tell WB and oden that his dream is to be the pirate king.
 

Lord Rayleigh

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Irrelevant. Oda could give faecal matter about what you think is creative or not, he does what he wants.

Oda doesn't write this story to make you happy or based on what you find interesting, Oda doesn't care about your opinion or your preference. Story doesn't revolve around you bud. Barely knows you remotely even exist.
Irrelevant indeed. Saying that Oda can write whatever he wants is not a valid way to reject the claim that your theory is a non-creative and boring end goal for Roger and Luffy and that goes against what Oda has been building and teasing for 2 decades.

I never said what it was, I said what it could be, I'm speculating, maybe try to understand the meaning of speculation.
No comment.



Actually, what Roger said was that if he found the greatest treasure in the world, he would become the greatest pirate in the world.

Roger pretty much said he will have the greatest CREW for finding great treasure... and he will be known as what?

Can you read what he said? I'll BE... be what? Doesn't take a genius bud, I'll be Pirate King. That's what Oden and Whitebeard found childish.

What Roger essentially said is he'll be the greatest pirate.. so the idea that Luffy saying the same can't be what he said is laughable when you can't even suggest something remotely better.

Do your research bud. Just requires reading.
You just quoted the page where Roger said exactly what I had written in my post. "We will become the greatest pirate group and then I’ll be …" And not the "I will be known as" that you used for the sake of your argument as it implies that there would be nothing else to accomplish to reach his dream.

In any case, let’s cut the crap here, you "speculated" that Roger said that he wanted to be the Pirate King or an equivalent, and we know that
  • Roger dreamed about something beyond becoming the greatest pirate group
  • Luffy is confirmed to have said the exact same words than Roger
  • Luffy said he had a dream beyond being the Pirate King
  • It is confirmed that Luffy was talking about his true dream when Ace and Sabo laughed about it first exactly like WB and Oden did with Roger
So Roger and Luffy had the same dream

So this theory of yours implies that Luffy’s dream beyond being the Pirate King is to be the Pirate King or a Pirate King equivalent, and it makes no sense at all.

And finally, your theory is contradicted by the FACT that some SHs have just said that Luffy’s dream was impossible and all of them do believe that he will become the Pirate King.
 
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Riku

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Yup. Awful writing aside, even chronology doesnt mand sense either. Luffy proclaimed to Shanks that he'll be the Pirate King right at the Red Hairs departure. Getting a "Huh, so you gonna be even bigger than us?" Prompting that this is new.

The secret dream, in the exact words of Roger, had been told to Shanks earlier in the timeline.

So no, the secret dream is not "I'm going to be the greatest Pirate (King)"

And why would Roger talk about Pirate King-ism when it was pretty blatantly implied that's just what the public started to call him. The term didn't exist before he found Laugh Tail.
 

Fox666

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Can you read what he said? I'll BE... be what? Doesn't take a genius bud, I'll be Pirate King. That's what Oden and Whitebeard found childish.
I think the Japanese version is a bit more vague than "I will be..."


But Roger and Luffy secret dream is not just to be Pirate King

Luffy says he will be Pirate King it all the time, and his crewmates believe 100% he will be Pirate King. However they never heard his secret dream before, and called it impossible

And Road to Laugh Tale has very much confirmed the dream is a secret

 
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Lord Rayleigh

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And why would Roger talk about Pirate King-ism when it was pretty blatantly implied that's just what the public started to call him. The term didn't exist before he found Laugh Tail.
There is also the fact that Rayleigh said that a dying Roger in his end time was simply happy to be called the Pirate King in the newspapers as he had always loved to do big flashy things. Rayleigh would have never said this if being Pirate King was Roger’s child dream. I had this argument in mind but I didn’t use it in my previous post because 1) it was not necessary to reject Hannibal Psyche’s theory 2) I thought Hannibal Psyche would ignore all the rest of my post and use it as a doorway to say that it doesn’t prove that it was not Roger’s dream. My point being that the more we look into the manga the more we will find evidence or clues that Hannibal Psyche’s theory is impossible.
 

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7-year old luffy was a bad swimmer. So, his dream was to unite the world under one continent. One Piece world.

That is simple
 

Lord Rayleigh

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So do you think that Luffy’s and Roger’s dream has something to do with "turning the world upside down"? That’s the only clue we have from Roger when he met Rayleigh for the first time and stated his ambition to recruit him.
 

Fox666

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7-year old luffy was a bad swimmer. So, his dream was to unite the world under one continent. One Piece world.

That is simple
The world of One Piece already has only 1 continent, the Red Line :SOON
 
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