Question Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

moonshard · Jun 3, 2012

Rikudou King said:
Are you attempting to argue that they would have had to possess the Sharingan in order to manage against the Senju? That argument only works if you presume the Senju were stronger then regular Uchiha's without the Sharingan, which would then make your argument about the Sharingan's power moot. Both clans gain equal powers from the Rikudou Sennin, and one of the key marks of the Senju was the stamina they got, which is a factor in chakra production. And why would you presume there were so few Senju? It's obvious that the Senju clan would have been as big as the Uchiha clan, given they shared the same ancestral line.

If it was equal, it would've ended there and I wouldn't dispute it here. It was equal when Naruto accessed Kurama's chakra to fight Sasuke's Sharingan for example. It doesn't justify having it evolve even further in response to Senju's massive chakra pool. Sharingan itself has an abundant of overpowering capabilities over the Senju and the only thing that kept them at odds. Saying that it does is like saying the Senju themselves had 1/4 of Kurama's chakra by default. Senju were masters of all skills but then it could be overridden with a blink of an eye. What do you think will happen in the long run? The increase in learning capacity itself would've out done the Senju in a few years after the awakening. Chakra pool does not in anyway makes someone powerful. Knowledge is power, guard it well.

Obvious. We haven't seen any Senju shinobi with massive amount of chakra in the current crisis, only Tsunade. It's the Forth Shinobi World War. Don't expect me to believe they completely forgotten about their lineage when it has only been 3-4 generation. It's like saying an American didn't know they were involved in World War 2. And why is it obvious that they were just as big I wonder. :nerd

Rikudou King said:
Um, no. It says the technique would be instantly memorized, not that they would replicate them in an instant. The memorizing goes right back to their analytical ability. You can't argue that they are instantly copying techniques and then claim that they have to practice in order to prefect it. That's training. When Sasuke was taught the Great Fireball, he could make the signs and blow a little fire, but required training to produce the full effect. When Naruto learn the Rasengan, he could generate the sphere and rotation, but required more training to maintain it. This is called training. So if Sasuke required addition training to actually use the Chidori after learning it, that's training and the opposite of instantly replicating.

How do you know there was no prior training? We know Sasuke was using it while they were in the forest, so he had plenty of time to practice it before using it against Yoroi. And you do realize that merely generating a lightning chakra flow would achieve the same result. It has nothing to do with the Chidori itself. That's not the Chidori itself. Chidori is, as mentioned, a thrusting attack at the highest speed.

Just repetition (ignored): Are you mixing together Suikoudan no Jutsu and Suiryudan no Jutsu? If not, when was the first time we saw Kakashi use it? I couldn't recall.
Again, I couldn't recall Sasuke training in the forest prior to the fight. They were busy fighting for their lives and as I recall, he passed out.

Chidori. Sasuke stabbed Naruto Part I. Sasuke vs Bee Part II. No indication that it was required.
And you do realize that merely generating a lightning chakra flow would achieve the same result.
Just quoting you: Don't forget, the Chidori is derived from the Rasengan, meaning it's likely they would have involved the same learning steps.
You just answered your own question me thinks. And I should mention how even a kekkei genkai jutsu could be copied and used without prior training http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c577/14.html
As Gai said, it's just a simple stab. If taijutsu was required, why wasn't it classified as a nintaijutsu? :nerd

Just as a missile is to a jet. A missile doesn't need a jet to show its offensive nature but a jet does. Ofcourse doesn't hold true if the pilot is going for a Kamikaze attack :^_^