Rules Mafia Game Rules & Roles

Status
Not open for further replies.

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,219
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
Alright guys, chill out

Wait, when was Farfalla advocating extra time? I thought she stated earlier that she was fine with votelocking determining it from the get-go?

I think the reason why this probably isn't uniform is because different hosts had preference when it comes to the whole "sunk cost" discussion, especially at pivotal points in the game. It's also the reason people feel the need to adjust penalties too.
 

GrySun

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
3,360
Reaction score
33,587
Gender
Male
Country
Earth Kindom
We should really make a standard on dealing with post-edits ingame as well.
Editing should give 1-2 penalties imo. While it's annoying not being to edit on phone, who really cares about a few typos. So it should definitely be punished slightly.
 

Evil3ye

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,276
Reaction score
28,463
Country
Fun Forum
Post edits are in the rules but are hard to monitor. That's all I can say. And when you catch some, it's hasn't been easy to find the right amount of punishment. I had terrible experiences with it too, like really game changing edits (Gantz game last day), what are you gonna do in that situation.
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,219
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
I don't like penalties for edits themselves. You're basically asking people to not take advantage of one of the most useful features in the forum. The issue is what is edited, not whether it's edited itself. Fixing typos or broken bbcode? I don't see why that should be punished just because sometimes someone might actually edit a post in a nefarious way. And if someone does happen to do that, people can witness it and Hosts are given the power to verify it.
 

Riku

Dirty Blonde
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Mangahelper
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
3,735
Reaction score
17,766
Country
Torumekian Empire
First: I agree with the three-strike system. Minor mistakes -> 1 Penalty, 3 Penalties, Hostkill. These include missing vote or missing minimum posts etc. Major mistakes: Claiming a role that is not allowed to be claimed, sharing host pm information (real or fake) etc.

Second: The tie breaking has always been a issue. I'm bit of an hurry, so I'll return to this later. But I don't find the current system written in the rules.

Third: Once you send your action PM, it is sent. No changes imho.

Fourth: Editing posts is sometimes really hard to notice. It's also pain in the ass to go thorough every single edited post, to make sure it is just typos and stuff and nothing game related. Maybe I'm just lazy host, but that's why'd still completly forbid editing. I also don't have an example to present, but I'm afraid of situation where it is unclear wheter the edit is game relevant or not. Like saying the same thing, but changing the choices or words or how the idea is represented.
 

Copy Panda

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Messages
4,532
Reaction score
21,577
Gender
Female
Country
China
A minor edit could change how the entire sentence is interpreted.

Sure, editing is a great feature. And the users can enjoy it literally anywhere else on the forum. But it's kinda inconvenient for a game like the mafia game, tbh.
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,219
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
Sure, editing is a great feature. And the users can enjoy it literally anywhere else on the forum. But it's kinda inconvenient for a game like the mafia game, tbh.
I don't recall it actually being an issue in how a game plays out aside from a few recent times when someone thought to check edit history. My point is that I think forbidding it completely is rather draconian.
 

Copy Panda

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Messages
4,532
Reaction score
21,577
Gender
Female
Country
China
And my point is that in a game as the mafia game being able to change words around, and therefore changing the meaning of your text, is dangerous to permit
 

Evil3ye

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,276
Reaction score
28,463
Country
Fun Forum
Lets start with the easy stuff (@TSPanda FYI, you may or may not apply it in this game, but from Game 52 for sure).

I'm introducing a definition and a unified punishment system for "Minor Violations".

What will change?

Three "Minor Violations" of any kind will lead to a hostkill.

Example 1:
Player X is whole Day 1 offline.
1x Minor Violation for not voting.
1x Minor Violation for not posting three posts.
_____ (yields)
2x Minor Violations = Three Penalty Votes on Day 2.

Example 2:
Player Y is whole Day 1 offline, but talks in the Discussion thread at Night 1 too vividly.
1x Minor Violation for not voting.
1x Minor Violation for not posting three posts.
1x Minor Violation for talking outside the game thread.
_____
3x Minor Violations = Hostkill + Hall of Shame.

Example 3:
Player Z forgets to vote on Day 1. Edits/deletes his posts on Day 2, and claims an unclaimable Role .
1x Minor Violation for not voting.
_____
1x Minor Violations = One Penalty Votes at start of Day 2.
1x Minor Violation during Day 2 = Two additional Penalty Votes during Day 2.
1x Minor Violation during Day 2 = Hostkill + Hall of Shame.

RULE BREAKING, PUNISHMENT & HALL OF SHAME

  • Minor Violations are "small rules violations", which do not result in a hostkill instantly, but are sanctioned with Penalty Votes first. For the first Minor Violation you get 1 Penalty Vote, for the second you get 3 Penalty Votes and the third gets you hostkilled. Three Minor Violation of any kind will lead to a hostkill.
  • If you disobey the rules above that are resulting with you being host killed and/or banned from future games, you will get registered in the Hall of Shame.
  • One violation bans you from the upcoming game.
  • A second violation of the same kind will ban you from the next three game.
  • A third violation and you are out from all upcoming games.
  • No amnesty or prescription until further notice.

--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Adjusted the wording in following rule texts.
Added a new bulletpoint about night talk and concrete punishments in activity rules.
Added a new bulletpoint about host directions such as from Politician and concrete punishment in other game rules.

ACTIVITY RULES

  • Be active in every day phase and post at least three times. It's a Minor Violation if you don't do that and will result in Penalty Vote(s)/Hostkill and ban from future games (Hall of Shame). If you are going to miss out a period of time due to real life events make sure to inform the host, who is going to judge each situation individually and decide whether or not taking the player out of the game is necessary.
  • Place at least one vote every day phase. It's a Minor Violation if you forget to place a vote and will result in Penalty Vote(s)/Hostkill and ban from future games (Hall of Shame).
  • Don't post more than 100 times per day phase. This is to reduce spam and the volume of posts per game. Nobody has time to go through hundreds of one liner posts with the same content over and over again (Imperium Copyright Rule). If you hit the volume restriction, it's a Minor Violation you will get a Penality Vote per 10 additional posts you make.
  • No talking during Night Phases, except for some roles that it is explicitly allowed and encouraged to. The Night phases are only to send in Night Actions. The scale of punishment for players who are caught discussing game content in the night may vary from Minor Violation to instand Hostkill, depending on the seriousness of the comment and/or warnings given before.
  • Dead people can't talk. So don't post once your character is dead; do not help others once you are dead. You can however, lurk the thread. If you post regardlessly, you will be banned from future games (Hall of Shame).

OUTER THREAD RULES
  • Absolutely DO NOT discuss the game outside of the game thread (unless you are Mafia members discussing it with other mafia through pms/piratepad). This is so that people do not reveal their roles and ruin the game. Players violating this rule will be instantly hostkilled and banned from future games (Hall of Shame).
  • Do not directly comment on the current game, once you are dead. This is so you don't influence the players that are still playing. Violator of this rule will be banned from future games (Hall of Shame).

OTHER GAME RULES
  • You are not allowed to post any screenshots, PMs or anything similar that can reveal your role, or the role of others, neither fake host PMs. If you do, you will be hostkilled and banned from future games (Hall of Shame).
  • You are not allowed to pretend being a Daytime Vigilant, Cowboy, or other roles, that have Day Commands. It's a Minor Violation if you do that regardlessly.
  • You are not allowed to ignore directions sent in to you by the host, for example a mandatory vote change by the Politician. It's a Minor Violation if you fail to respond accordingly.
  • You are not allowed to majorly edit the content of your posts, nor delete any of your own or someone else's post without the Host's approval. If you do, you may get a Minor Violation punishment or hostkilled immediately and banned from future games (Hall of Shame).
Please check if everyone agrees with the wordings and if there are doublings that could be removed.
 

Copy Panda

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Messages
4,532
Reaction score
21,577
Gender
Female
Country
China
So what was decided about the rules and roles? What has factually changed about the game?
 

Evil3ye

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,276
Reaction score
28,463
Country
Fun Forum
The post before yours. We didn't progress and settle on tie breaking rule updates.
 

Copy Panda

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Messages
4,532
Reaction score
21,577
Gender
Female
Country
China
So in all that time you only cleaned up the wording of things?
 

Copy Panda

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Messages
4,532
Reaction score
21,577
Gender
Female
Country
China
beforehand it just wasn't written down like that, but rule violation wasn't something that was under-addressed. there wasn't a real consensus on how many penalty votes one has to receive before facing hostkill, that's true I guess. yeah truly the monumental rule update that will make hosting great again
 

GrySun

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
3,360
Reaction score
33,587
Gender
Male
Country
Earth Kindom
4 new roles added to the game:

Martyr(PROTECTING ROLES), Sane/Insane Apprentice(EFFECT ADDING ROLES), Prosecutor(KILLING ROLES) and Mafia Gambler(ANTAGONISTS).

These will be tested out in MG54.
 

Vandred

Plan Deviser
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Mangahelper
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
1,488
Reaction score
7,113
Country
Imperium of Mankind
@Evil3ye, @GrySun, @Hardy, @TSPanda, and whoever feels like offering their thoughts about the discussion;

As some of you have probably noticed - or have heard me complain about it - there have been a few instances as of late where the rules of our Mafia Games have... sparked some discussions on matters of their interpretation. Some more relevant to a game running smoothly and fairly for everyone, others that are mostly questions about "what if".

So as I prepare to co-host a game for the first time with less experience than it would be smart to have, I compiled a list with a few of these questions about the rules. And by a few, I mean sixty-three.

I didn't think they would become this many at first, but as I kept going through the descriptions of all the roles, more and more questions about details and possible interactions would keep coming up, and I thought that every dubious or ambiguous point is the basis for a potential screw-up. Bear in mind that among these questions some are more an issue of how the rules were worded, others I'm almost certain about and included them just to be sure, and a few of them I have already had answered by a host or seen be discussed by various people during previous games, and I included them for the record.


GENERAL RULES

- Could a list of every role's priority group be compiled? Some of them, like Townie/Mafia Bomb Defuser, Barkeeper or Santa Claus, are not easily assigned to one group over another.

- Is the priority of all night actions that would interact decided by a coin flip? For example, if a Mafia Escort decides to block a player and a Prostitute blocks the Escort, does the Escort's target get blocked?

- Can a mafia member other than the Boss send the host a PM with a different target or perpetrator than what was "democratically" decided during the night phase, or is it an infraction punishable by the host? If it's not an infraction, what happens if two mafia members other than the Boss both send the host a PM with the mafia's night actions, but indicating conflicting targets or perpetrators?


INVESTIGATING ROLES

1) Does the Spy receive a result if his target didn't target anyone, or do they receive no result as if the Spy's action was blocked?

2) Does the Paranoid Spy get a result even if the player they target has a passive role or didn't target anyone on the same night?

3) Does the Mortician get to learn every action that was used on his target since the beginning of the game? If so, does the chronological order include the day and night number of the phase when the actions were performed (Example: N1 - investigated, D2 - forced to vote, N2 - blocked, killed)?

4) Following the previous example, how detailed are the results? Example: would a result say "D2 - forced to vote" or "D2 - forced to vote by Politician"? What about "N2 - blocked by Mafia Escort, killed by PGO"?


PROTECTING ROLES

5) Does a Doctor's ability prevent any kill on that night? For example, does using it on a Mafia member who tries to kill a Bomb or PGO save the Mafia member?

6) Does the Naive Doctor still use a night action when he tries to save someone, or is he like a passive Regular Townie? For instance, would they be shot by a PGO if they tried to save him, or would a Spy detect the Naive Doctor's action?

7) If a Strongman uses his ability on a target protected by a Bodyguard, who dies? The target, the Bodyguard or both?

8) Can a Martyr send the host a PM saying he wants to sacrifice himself for more than one possible target (for instance, to circumvent last-minute votechanges from one likely lynch target to another)?


BLOCKING ROLES

9) Does the Hider get killed when the target he's hiding behind is poisoned, or when the target dies from the poison (or in both cases, or in neither)?

10) Does the Hider get shot by the PGO if he tries to hide behind him?

11) If a player with a night action has a temporary (or permanent) Bulletproof role, is he protected from "accidental deaths" such as triggering a Bomb or targeting a PGO?

12) Do daykills work on Bulletproofs?

13) Is the 3-5 limit to the number of players the Barkeeper can invite decided by the Barkeeper himself, or by the host depending, for example, on the game's size?

14) Can the Barkeeper redirect a night action on himself? Even a kill?


EFFECT-ADDING ROLES


15) If a Freeman dies and makes the game skip a day phase, are any abilities that would have taken place in that day phase (like a Restless Spirit's vote) postponed to the next available day phase, or are they nullified?

16) In order to determine the last person who cast his vote on a Bomb, if Player A votes on a Bomb, then Player B votes after him, and then Player A locks his vote, who is considered to have voted last?

17) Is a Miller or Death Miller always guilty upon a Detective's investigation, or is the result adapted to the Detective's sanity (so that Sane and Paranoid Dets will get a "guilty" result, and Insane and Naive Dets will get an "innocent" result)?

18) Can an Investigator detect a Death Miller's true role and affiliation by investigating his body? If not, if a Death Miller is killed by a Janitor and an Investigator investigates his body, does he learn the fake result or the Death Miller's real role?

19) Is a player who dies from a Witch's curse able to use a night action on the night of his death? Also, does the Witch's curse work as a normal nightkill, thus being avoidable by a Bulletproof or with a Doctor's protection (and thus belonging to the "killing and recruiting" priority group, which means the cursed player can use an ability from the same priority group if he wins a coin flip)? Or does it override the target's protection and abilities as a Lover's suicide does?

20) Is the Apprentice notified of his progression every time he tries to learn from someone? Are previous progressions overwritten if he chooses a new teacher halfway? If his teacher gets blocked, does he learn nothing even if his teacher has a passive role?

21) If he targets a Third Party (Serial Killer, Mentor, Mentee), does the Sane Apprentice die upon his third try just as if he had targeted a Mafia member? If so, does the Insane Apprentice learn the Third Party player's role instead (and join the Mentor and Mentee couple if he learns from the Mentee, like a Threesome Candidate)?

22) What happens to the Apprentice if he tries to learn a recruitable role (Traitor, Naive Traitor, Sleeper, Threesome Candidate)? What about a Recruiting Mason (and does he join the existing Masons if he learns from a non-recruiting Mason)?

23) If an Apprentice learns from a player with a single-use action that's already been used or nullified (such as a Daytime Vigilante who has already daykilled someone, a PGO who has already been targeted, or a defused Bomb), can he use the ability normally or does the Apprentice learn a worthless role?

24) When it's said that the Insane Apprentice "becomes an unskilled Mafia Member", does it mean that his role become "Unskilled Mafia" (so with a 50% chance to fail at killing), or that he becomes a "Regular Mafia" with no additional skills?


VOTING-RELATED ROLES


25) Does a player who gets forced to vote by the Politician have to lock his vote right away, or is it sufficient for him to "soft-vote" as long as he doesn't change it until the end of the day phase?

26) Can a Politician force a player to change his vote even if the player has already locked his vote?

27) If the day phase gets a time extension because of a lynch draw, can a player whose vote was corrupted by the Politician change his vote like every other player who had locked their votes in order to break the tie? If so, in the same scenario, could the Politician choose another player (or the same one) to corrupt a vote a second time?


KILLING ROLES


28) Does the Paranoid Gun Owner kill anyone who targets him at night, regardless of the action (so even a Spy, Doctor, Barkeeper, Recruiting Mason, Santa, or an Apprentice on his first try)?


RECRUITABLE ROLES

29) If a mafia has a Traitor working for them in the game, are they made aware of this at the start of the game?

30) In order to determine when a game ends, does a Traitor who didn't get recruited count as a townie or as a mafia member? For example, if at the start of D4 there are three mafia members alive, three townies and an unrecruited Traitor, does the mafia win right away? Conversely, if every mafia member is killed but an unrecruited Traitor is still alive, does the town win?

31) If more than one mafia target a Sleeper on the same night, does he die? If so, once the following day phase starts, is his role revealed as a townie Sleeper, or belonging to the mafia who won or lost the coin flip for the priority conflict?


MAFIA ROLES

32) Is the Mafia Boss always innocent upon a Detective's investigation, or is the result adapted to the Detective's sanity (so innocent for Sane and Naive Dets, and guilty for Insane and Paranoid Dets)?

33) When a Mafia Detective investigates a player, does the rest of the mafia he belongs to learn the result of his investigation at the end of the same night, or does only the Mafia Detective learn it?

34) If a player becomes a Bulletproof after getting poisoned by the Poisoner, will he still die the night after the poisoning took place?

35) Does the Assassin choose his day targets in autonomy?

36) Can the mafia "store" a nightkill in order to have the Assassin kill during the next day and be able to kill on the following night? For example, if they decide not to kill anyone on N1 to let the Assassin kill someone on D2, can the mafia send someone to kill on N3?

37) Can the Assassin send a PM to the host with instructions to make his kill happen at a certain time, or does the kill always happen immediately after the PM is sent?

38) If a Burden dies and makes the game skip a night phase, can the Assassin strike on both days or only on one of them?

38) If a Burden dies and makes the game skip a night phase, are any abilities that would have taken place in that night phase (like a Lover's suicide) postponed to the next available night phase, are they nullified, or do they take place between the end of the first day and the start of the next one?

39) Can the Mafia Bomb Defuser only defuse Time Bombs and regular Bombs (so not a Kamikaze Bomb or a Mafia Bomb), or is his role equivalent to the townie Bomb Diffuser? Can he be chosen as his mafia's killer on the same night he uses his ability?

40) Does the Mafia Pirate die if he tries to steal the ability of one of his teammates?

41) Can the Mafia Pirate kill before he steals a role, or is he unable to from the start?


THIRD PARTIES

42) In order to determine when a game with two or more mafias ends, does one mafia need to eliminate every member of the rival mafia before they can win, or is it sufficient for the sum of the townies and rival mafia members to be equivalent or inferior to their own? What about the presence of other Third Parties?

43) Does the Mentor die even if he recruits another Third Party, such as the Serial Killer or Santa?

44) Can the Mentor and his Mentee communicate during the day as well as during the night?

45) If a Mentee's Mentor dies, when does the Mentee die?

46) Even if he cannot choose which ones to hand out, is Santa Claus informed of what his presents are? And when he chooses to hand out a present, is he informed of which present was randomly picked by the host right away (or at any time)?

47) What kind of presents can Santa Claus hand out? Are they only temporary roles, or can they be whatever the host chooses?

48) If Santa Claus has already given a present to every remaining player in the game but not enough to win the game (so less than five presents), is he unable to give any more presents and thus unable to win, or does it count as a victory for him?

49) If Santa Claus successfully delivers his last present on the same night he gets killed, does he win the game (and thus save Christmas)?


LOVERS (yes, they deserve a category all of their own)

50) Does the Lover role influence a Detective's investigation? In other words, does a townie Lover produce a "guilty" result if investigated by a Sane Detective?

51) Does the Lover role get revealed alongside the player's main role upon a Mafia Detective investigation? Does it get revealed by an Investigator's investigation?

52) Does a Lover role get revealed by a Prosecutor's accusation? If so, does a townie Lover get lynched if he's targeted by the Prosecutor, or does the Prosecutor get lynched instead?

53) Can the Lover reveal his Lover role to a Barkeeper? If so, does he reveal both his Lover role and his main one, or is that decided by a coin flip?

54) Does a Mason Recruiter die if he targets a townie Lover? If not, does the townie Lover lose the Lover role upon becoming a Mason?

55) On the night of his suicide, can a Lover perform a night action before dying (thus only being able to perform an action of the "killing and recruiting" priority group if he wins a coin flip)?

56) Is a Lover's suicide preventable in any way, or will he always die on the first night after his Lover's death?

57) Can an Innocent Child be a Lover?

58) Can Jesus be a Lover? If so, can his resurrection prevent his Lover's suicide (for example, if both Jesus and a Burden are killed on N1, thus making Jesus resurrect on D3 before the other Lover has a chance to commit suicide)?

59) Can the townie or mafia Lover be a recruitable role (other than Threesome Candidate)?

60) Are the Lovers always one townie and one mafia, or can they belong to different mafias? Can one of them have a Third Party main role, such as a Serial Killer being paired with a townie (or mafia) Lover?


That's all of them, for now. Anyone who would be willing to offer their opinion is more than welcome - even answering a few would be a great help, and thanks in advance to those who will.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top