Discussion Merlin

[Epic_Rider]

We specifically see the beam piercing through greyroad and then another containing him. If the spells worked exactly like that regardless of PL then they wouldn't merely do that to greyroad but the combined 10 commandments.

You're ignoring the fact that Greyroad would have wanted Merlin to hit her with that spell, in order to trigger her Commandment. Even if it did work on people regardless of their PL, the Ten Commadments could easily dodge or counter with their abilities.

The twister literally overpowered greyroad and got him trapped in the flask, that is by any logic a pl feat.

Endless Whirl is a AoE spell that effects the environment. The winds it created were strong enough to ruin a huge stone castle. Greyroad's physical abilities aren't that high for a Ten Commandment, plus it split apart, so it strength probably split too.

 

[kkck]

You're ignoring the fact that Greyroad would have wanted Merlin to hit her with that spell, in order to trigger her Commandment. Even if it did work on people regardless of their PL, the Ten Commadments could easily dodge or counter with their abilities.

Endless Whirl is a AoE spell that effects the environment. The winds it created were strong enough to ruin a huge stone castle. Greyroad's physical abilities aren't that high for a Ten Commandment, plus it split apart, so it strength probably split too.

My impression was that greyroad intended for merlin to trigger his commandment via the bugs but given her condition, a debilitating chronic lack of fucks to give, she went for greyroad. Of course, my interpretation of that could be wrong. He didn't seem too happy to have one of his heads killed at first at least.

As for greyroad's PL, he has 26.5k in magic and 10k in strength. 10k in strength is obviously far beneath the more physically stronger commandments but it is also not quite low. Considering gloxinia had 0, melas 500, fraudrin had just 15k, and moonspiet had something like 14 k IIRC. And even then, greyroad wouldn't specifically have required physical strength to break free if he could. He flies around to move, his magic would have likely been more relevant. It's not like enduring attacks is a pure strength thing (though it helps). Magic also plays a factor when it comes to enduring attacks. Otherwise a single attack regardless of its magnitude would end king or gloxinia, whose strength is at 0.

 

[Demonspeed]

Galan was able to beat her because Galan's forte is his physical strength, so she's much much more faster to the point where Merlin can't even keep up. GR and Fraudrin didn't showcase any speed on the level of galan's

rofl, its perfect cube that was containing the blows and between Meliodas and Escanor. if its unbreakable due to Merlin's PL then she would've insane PL beyond those 2

Can't keep up with what? Merlin has an arsenal of spells. She could have cast barriers, attacked him or teleported herself if she thought she had a chance of beating Galan. Galan has never been portrayed as some kind of speedster and I don't see why Gray Lord would be unable to keep up with him.

Meliodas and Diane were much weaker and yet they managed to hit him, he allowed them to, they were that weak. In the end Gowther managed to hit him by surprise. If Merlin had enough power to beat him back then she would have done so.

I honestly wouldn't consider Greyroad a magician in the same vein as Merlin, Vivian or Melascula. A magician is someone that can use spells outside of their inherent magic. Haven't seen that from Greyroad.



That's oversimplifying the issue quite a lot. Galan had physical abilities far surpassing anyone there at the time, plus he had counter-magician tactics.

Greyroad is purely a debuff user from what we saw, and Fraudrin's physical abilities while inside Dreyfus are nothing to write home about considering he's a member of the Ten Commandments. He got knocked out by Wayeo, remember?

We don't exactly know the details of Gray Lord's Magic, only the name: Curse. But she still qualifies as a Magician.

What do you mean by counter magician tactics? Galan fights with his weapon and pure physical abilities, that's all.

Yes, Fraudrin got knocked out, but it was after being weakened by the two other Pleaides and he could have left Dreyfus's body if he wanted. What is more important though is that he was not alone, Gray Lord was also here. And she had no handicap.

 

[Epic_Rider]

[QUOTE="Demonspeed, post: 4608710, member: 172142"
[Galan has never been portrayed as some kind of speedster and I don't see why Gray Lord would be unable to keep up with him.[/QUOTE]

Seriously? The same Galan that jumped hundreds of miles in an instant, and causally outpaced Ban, who was basically one of the fastest people in the manga at the time, was never portrayed as a speedster?

We don't exactly know the details of Gray Lord's Magic, only the name: Curse. But she still qualifies as a Magician.

Again, a magician is someone that uses spells outside of their inherent magic. I haven't seen Greyroad do that, so I can't call her a magician.

What do you mean by counter magician tactics? Galan fights with his weapon and pure physical abilities, that's all.

Did you not see when he noticed Merlin's magic before she cast it, and instantly chose the most effective way to escape? He knows how magicians work, and how to counter them effectively

Yes, Fraudrin got knocked out, but it was after being weakened by the two other Pleaides and he could have left Dreyfus's body if he wanted.

Arden weakened his magic, not his physical strength, Deldrey's magic addled his mind, so I'm not sure how much of an effect it had on his physical abilities. But the fact remains that letting Wayeo knock him out in one hit, no matter how weakened he was, doesn't speak well to his strength in Fraudrin.

What is more important though is that he was not alone, Gray Lord was also here. And she had no handicap.

She seems to have let it happen to scope out the Pleiades.

 

[Demonspeed]

Seriously? The same Galan that jumped hundreds of miles in an instant, and causally outpaced Ban, who was basically one of the fastest people in the manga at the time, was never portrayed as a speedster?

He was a speedster compared to the Sins from back then. Compared to the other TCs Galan has not been portrayed as particularly fast, but we know is jumping ability is great. Meliodas at 32500 trashed him in absolutely every way. If you say that Galan is a speedster, then what are the other Commandments? The word loses its meaning. He and the other Commandments are fast.

Again, a magician is someone that uses spells outside of their inherent magic. I haven't seen Greyroad do that, so I can't call her a magician.

I am not trying to convince you that she is one. It doesn't matter in this discussion anyway. But I think we can both agree that she is specialized in spell casting.

Did you not see when he noticed Merlin's magic before she cast it, and instantly chose the most effective way to escape? He knows how magicians work, and how to counter them effectively

How does it mean that he is an anti-magician tactician? He felt her magic and dodged it, it's that simple. Of course he fought magicians in the past, but it doesn't mean he counters them or anything.

Arden weakened his magic, not his physical strength, Deldrey's magic addled his mind, so I'm not sure how much of an effect it had on his physical abilities. But the fact remains that letting Wayeo knock him out in one hit, no matter how weakened he was, doesn't speak well to his strength in Fraudrin.

She seems to have let it happen to scope out the Pleiades.

Still, it is a fact that he lost due to teamwork, Wayeo would have lost alone. And, it doesn't change what I said about Merlin, she knew there was a TC in Dreyfus's body and that there was another TC. She came full of confidence, and she beat them easily. She was ready to fight these two. Gray Lord alone had a PL much higher than Galan back then, and yet she was not afraid. She was not the same at Camelot.

Fraudrin, a TC said her power was great before seeing her. He being in Dreyfus's body doesn't matter because he knows how strong he is. Someone in the 4K would not impress him with magic feats. Gray Lord would not run away from an opponent with a PL of 4K just because her spells can last an eternity. If she is weak it doesn't matter. Zeldris would have killed her with one hit if Elizabeth had not saved her and it's because he is much stronger. Infinity didn't help.

 

[kkck]

Honestly, since we saw the demon and we got some context regarding what he is it seems increasingly strange that merlin would have any degree of immunity to the commandments. Where could such a thing come from? Merlin doesn't strike me as a god or superior being of any sort, however powerful she might be. If she is immune to something it must mean her immunity comes from someone or something whose power is comparable to that of the demon king. Belialin is a place rather than a person which makes this even stranger... I get the impression merlin belongs to some other most extinct clan which had a god comparable to the supreme goddess or demon king.

 

[HereNThere]

The only thing I can think of currently is that the Commandment Precepts weren't originated by the Demon King, but someone or something else and she is related to them/it.

 

[Demonspeed]

Extinct clan of Humans similar to the Druids, or maybe she is the only one like that. The fact that she has some resistance to Demon curses(which would be the power of her clan like the Druids who can use Goddess's powers for healing) means there must be a link with the Goddess clan. Arthur's seems linked to the Goddess clan as well so it fits. That theory also works if she is not Human at all, the twins said they didn't know what she was IIRC.

For those who think Merlin's PL is not in the 4K anymore, where do you think she stands PL-wise? Do you think she can rival Chandler? I am curious to see what she will do next chapter.

 

[kkck]

The only thing I can think of currently is that the Commandment Precepts weren't originated by the Demon King, but someone or something else and she is related to them/it.

We have been specifically told, repeatedly at that, that it was the demon king who created the commandments as special curses or whatnot. Him not being the one who made the commandments would be the single biggest lie nakaba would have told us. Characters lying is something permissible but there is a point at which it just makes poor writing.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 24, 2017 ---

Extinct clan of Humans similar to the Druids, or maybe she is the only one like that. The fact that she has some resistance to Demon curses(which would be the power of her clan like the Druids who can use Goddess's powers for healing) means there must be a link with the Goddess clan. Arthur's seems linked to the Goddess clan as well so it fits. That theory also works if she is not Human at all, the twins said they didn't know what she was IIRC.

For those who think Merlin's PL is not in the 4K anymore, where do you think she stands PL-wise? Do you think she can rival Chandler? I am curious to see what she will do next chapter.

A human clan would be very strange in this context. Humans are the weakest race we know. They can barely oppose weak demons, let alone high class demons to begin with. Barring escanor or arthur of course. Also, given the goddesses we have seen so far... does it look like goddesses would normally have any degree of immunity to commandments? Merlin did say only the goddess clan could counter a commandment however in context merlin at that point was merely speculating. With all the goddesses we have seen I just can't see the goddesses having any degree of immunity to commandments solely because they are goddesses.

Arthur does seem somehow linked to the goddess clan however the context so far seems to go around his connection to excalibur. I guess the big question is whether arthur's innate magic is somehow connected to the goddess clan... or perhaps something the goddess clan wants to exploit through excalibur.

Chandler so far has shown enough speed to essentially speedblitz king, diane and merlin. Such a feat suggests extremely high PL to put it mildly. Merlin can be pretty much anywhere between 40 and 60 k IMO. I don't expect her to be outside that range for the time being. If she does have a connection to a being who at some point was a match to the supreme goddess or demon king then it would make sense for her to eventually go higher though. Chandler is probably above 60... I don't expect him to be higher than assault mode meliodas though. My guess would be that chandler and cusack clock at around the same level as the archangels which IMO is somewhere around the 70ks.

 

[Kay3795]

For those who think Merlin's PL is not in the 4K anymore, where do you think she stands PL-wise? Do you think she can rival Chandler? I am curious to see what she will do next chapter.

The latest chapters makes it clearer that Ban is the only one still stuck with the same PL. It was implied that only Gowther, King, Diane, Elizabeth & Merlin could mount a reasonable defence against 10C after the "damage" which Meliodas & Escanor suffered...but because Liz & Merlin decided to stay with the 2 damaged ones, that task is left only for those 3. Ban is completely excluded from the equation...so Merlin just can't be 4k anymore.

Also her aura startled Grayroad & Fraudrin, so it's only reasonable to think she had sealed (like with Mel) or restricted (like the glasses on Escanor) her powers all this while, until now. Fraudrin had 13k magic. Grayroad had 26.5k. Her magic might be around 40+K (around Gloxinia lvl though I'm unsure).

I'm still wondering if it's possible to infinity amplify herself with some kind of cheap power amplifier.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 24, 2017 ---

somewhere around the 70ks.

Probably 100+k (they might even be stronger than current Mel or the 2 other Sons at full power but I'm unsure about this). 70k is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low

 

[kkck]

Probably 100+k (they might even be stronger than current Mel or the 2 other Sons at full power but I'm unsure about this). 70k is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low

Well, obviously there isn't a cap to their power given what little we know. However their current feats don't really require them to be THAT high. At around 70k they would clock 30k ahead of the max pl we have seen from king, 22k more than diane and probably a similar amount ahead of merlin. Much smaller differences than that have shown they can make a huge difference in a fight. If anything, unless the sins clock at a lot higher than what they have shown so far then an enemy at around 70k is simply much more than what multiple people between the 40 and 50 k can hope to handle. 70k is low compared to escanor/meliodas but it should be a pretty much unbreakable wall for the lesser sins. At the very least until they all develop their full potential.

 

[Demonspeed]

A human clan would be very strange in this context. Humans are the weakest race we know. They can barely oppose weak demons, let alone high class demons to begin with. Barring escanor or arthur of course. Also, given the goddesses we have seen so far... does it look like goddesses would normally have any degree of immunity to commandments? Merlin did say only the goddess clan could counter a commandment however in context merlin at that point was merely speculating. With all the goddesses we have seen I just can't see the goddesses having any degree of immunity to commandments solely because they are goddesses.

Arthur does seem somehow linked to the goddess clan however the context so far seems to go around his connection to excalibur. I guess the big question is whether arthur's innate magic is somehow connected to the goddess clan... or perhaps something the goddess clan wants to exploit through excalibur.

Chandler so far has shown enough speed to essentially speedblitz king, diane and merlin. Such a feat suggests extremely high PL to put it mildly. Merlin can be pretty much anywhere between 40 and 60 k IMO. I don't expect her to be outside that range for the time being. If she does have a connection to a being who at some point was a match to the supreme goddess or demon king then it would make sense for her to eventually go higher though. Chandler is probably above 60... I don't expect him to be higher than assault mode meliodas though. My guess would be that chandler and cusack clock at around the same level as the archangels which IMO is somewhere around the 70ks.

Well, she is called Beliaruin's daughter and they say she is a survivor so I think it could make sense if she was part of a clan like that since Demons believed they had annihilated them. Besides Goddesses there is no one with anti Demon abilities, Druids have it and it's because of the Goddess themselves, I can see some Goddesses being immune to the Commandments but even Merlin is not immune to it, she is more resistant, Elizabeth also said that anyone other than her would have not lasted this long after being cursed by Zeldris.

I am not sure that Chandler's feat qualify as a pure speed one. The night he brought probably played a role. I think Merlin is above 60K, Chandler definitely is above that, but he could be much stronger than her. Chandler might be able to power up too and maybe he has some kind of unique transformation. Of all the High Class Demons he is the only one with such visible animal features after Mera(acidic saliva and fangs).

 

[kkck]

Well, she is called Beliaruin's daughter and they say she is a survivor so I think it could make sense if she was part of a clan like that since Demons believed they had annihilated them. Besides Goddesses there is no one with anti Demon abilities, Druids have it and it's because of the Goddess themselves, I can see some Goddesses being immune to the Commandments but even Merlin is not immune to it, she is more resistant, Elizabeth also said that anyone other than her would have not lasted this long after being cursed by Zeldris.

I am not sure that Chandler's feat qualify as a pure speed one. The night he brought probably played a role. I think Merlin is above 60K, Chandler definitely is above that, but he could be much stronger than her. Chandler might be able to power up too and maybe he has some kind of unique transformation. Of all the High Class Demons he is the only one with such visible animal features after Mera(acidic saliva and fangs).

Merlin said she was immune to them though. And she did free herself from galand's commandment. Anyways, the implication when it comes to curses dealt by the demon king is that it takes a comparable being to deal with them. Which I would argue applies to his commandments as well as the curses he placed on elizabeth/meliodas (I think he said he cursed elizabeth which would suggest the SG cursed meliodas). With that in mind directly countering a commandment should be a SG class feat. Perhaps

My take on the darkness that came with him was more along the lines of it being a consequence of his vastly powerful magic power in general. Kinda like when meliodas regained his own power. That said, you could be right. However if you are right I would argue it was at the most a stealth thing as we saw him literally fly there.

As for mera, I am not sure if the comparison to her is relevant. From what I can tell her transformation merely returned her true form. Meanwhile her general appearance was just something she found cuter. It's not similar to indura or what meliodas/zeldris do. It's not impossible for chandler to be doing the same though plotwise it wouldn't be too interesting. I am not sure if it would make sense either if there were alternate transformation paths introduced this late in the story either. I mean, demons so far have the demon marks and however far they advance along with indura. To me it would make more sense if the animal like traits we are seeing from chandler were building towards indura rather than some other arbitrary transformation.

Dunno about merlin clocking at 60... I mean, 60k is a bit of a benchmark. Base mel along with demon mark zeldris and estarosa clocked at that... Given the current context perhaps it would make sense that at least merlin clocked higher than 60 given that the stakes suddenly went up. The sins have to face zeldris with a more advanced transformation, a recovered estarosa with newfound relevance, the two masters and whichever other arbitrarily powerful bullshit demons nakaba brings in. Given the story's progression up to a few chapters back I would have found it weird if non escanor/meliodas sins clocked higher than 60 but perhaps now that is a bit of a necessity. Of course, It seems like a bit of a certainty that multiple sins will clock higher than that when the time comes. Diane once she shows her full creation, king once his wings fully grow, ban once he stops being worthless... I am inclined to thinking gowther probably won't have a significant PL increase as his magic does not require it though. And he is a doll... How would he grow stronger or weaker? I am inclined to thinking that he could have a different mode of sorts. An overclock if you will though.

 

[Kay3795]

Well, obviously there isn't a cap to their power given what little we know. However their current feats don't really require them to be THAT high. At around 70k they would clock 30k ahead of the max pl we have seen from king, 22k more than diane and probably a similar amount ahead of merlin. Much smaller differences than that have shown they can make a huge difference in a fight. If anything, unless the sins clock at a lot higher than what they have shown so far then an enemy at around 70k is simply much more than what multiple people between the 40 and 50 k can hope to handle. 70k is low compared to escanor/meliodas but it should be a pretty much unbreakable wall for the lesser sins. At the very least until they all develop their full potential.

For one, I don't think the masters suitable opponents for any SDS character not just because I think they're easily 100+k but because of the masters personality & place in the demon clan (they're not 10C).

At the same time, I can't begin to ignore the possibility of all the SINs having roughly equal power EoS; meaning King, Diane, Gowther etc having a PL that is 100+k. Right now I think Diane the equivalent of King, meaning when King's wings bloom & develop properly (this should be a significant power up, say 60+k), Diane would've reached another lvl with her connection with nature to match his lover. Now how & why I see this 100+k happening? First of all, Nakaba is an Author (of an action comic) & I think he'd want to create extremely epic final fights... so somehow, King would reach a point where he could handle all of the Secret Tree, Diane a point where she could tap into greater resource in nature,. Gowther a point were he would surpass his creator (whom at full power could've easily been 100+k too). The only problem would be Ban... I have no Idea how Nakaba is gonna make it happen.

 

[Demonspeed]

Merlin said she was immune to them though. And she did free herself from galand's commandment. Anyways, the implication when it comes to curses dealt by the demon king is that it takes a comparable being to deal with them. Which I would argue applies to his commandments as well as the curses he placed on elizabeth/meliodas (I think he said he cursed elizabeth which would suggest the SG cursed meliodas). With that in mind directly countering a commandment should be a SG class feat. Perhaps

My take on the darkness that came with him was more along the lines of it being a consequence of his vastly powerful magic power in general. Kinda like when meliodas regained his own power. That said, you could be right. However if you are right I would argue it was at the most a stealth thing as we saw him literally fly there.

If she was immune to them the Truth would have not affected her in the first place. I reread it and she said she was immune to the Pacifism because of Infinity. The Truth affected her but she cancelled its effects because she has a natural resistance to the Commandments. It reminded me of what she said about her true name and it indicates that she can't be Human at all. Maybe she is some kind of anti-Demon being? An artificial being created with a blessing allowing her to resist Demons. Even the Goddess clan don't scare them. Assuming Beliaruin is also a person(Belial could be his name) maybe he was a being comparable to the DK and SG.

I think it worked as a radar he used to find Meliodas's location rather than a stealth tool. He doesn't seem to care about the others and it was a flashy move. The night distracted the Sins and they didn't notice him at all because of his incredible speed.

As for mera, I am not sure if the comparison to her is relevant. From what I can tell her transformation merely returned her true form. Meanwhile her general appearance was just something she found cuter. It's not similar to indura or what meliodas/zeldris do. It's not impossible for chandler to be doing the same though plotwise it wouldn't be too interesting. I am not sure if it would make sense either if there were alternate transformation paths introduced this late in the story either. I mean, demons so far have the demon marks and however far they advance along with indura. To me it would make more sense if the animal like traits we are seeing from chandler were building towards indura rather than some other arbitrary transformation.

Dunno about merlin clocking at 60... I mean, 60k is a bit of a benchmark. Base mel along with demon mark zeldris and estarosa clocked at that... Given the current context perhaps it would make sense that at least merlin clocked higher than 60 given that the stakes suddenly went up. The sins have to face zeldris with a more advanced transformation, a recovered estarosa with newfound relevance, the two masters and whichever other arbitrarily powerful bullshit demons nakaba brings in. Given the story's progression up to a few chapters back I would have found it weird if non escanor/meliodas sins clocked higher than 60 but perhaps now that is a bit of a necessity. Of course, It seems like a bit of a certainty that multiple sins will clock higher than that when the time comes. Diane once she shows her full creation, king once his wings fully grow, ban once he stops being worthless... I am inclined to thinking gowther probably won't have a significant PL increase as his magic does not require it though. And he is a doll... How would he grow stronger or weaker? I am inclined to thinking that he could have a different mode of sorts. An overclock if you will though.

Well, Indura is considered as returning to their true form but maybe original is more fitting, Demons need to be at a certain level to use this. Merascylla was originally a little snake before becoming a Demon, I consider her humanoid form as the normal one and the giant snake one as an unpractical transformation. She can't even use Hell Gate like that. But yes Chandler's appearance might be related to Indura.

Considering the strength of the opponents I think being above 60K will be necessary in the future. I had said this before in the Ranking the Sins thread I believe, but with King being at 40K even with his tiny wings I am even more convinced that it will be the case. An increase of about 10K for King with full wings seems too little to me. I think Merlin and Gowther are already at such level and it's probably why Nakaba is not revealing it, unlike the two others who are currently growing. Gowther's PL should be comparable or equal to his father's, and he is implied to be pretty strong. Once they revealed that he was Papa Gowther's proxy, who was a great magician and Demon, I wondered if he had the ability to use the PoD or other magic spells as well. Maybe it's possible.

 

[kkck]

If she was immune to them the Truth would have not affected her in the first place. I reread it and she said she was immune to the Pacifism because of Infinity. The Truth affected her but she cancelled its effects because she has a natural resistance to the Commandments. It reminded me of what she said about her true name and it indicates that she can't be Human at all. Maybe she is some kind of anti-Demon being? An artificial being created with a blessing allowing her to resist Demons. Even the Goddess clan don't scare them. Assuming Beliaruin is also a person(Belial could be his name) maybe he was a being comparable to the DK and SG.

I think it worked as a radar he used to find Meliodas's location rather than a stealth tool. He doesn't seem to care about the others and it was a flashy move. The night distracted the Sins and they didn't notice him at all because of his incredible speed.

Well, Indura is considered as returning to their true form but maybe original is more fitting, Demons need to be at a certain level to use this. Merascylla was originally a little snake before becoming a Demon, I consider her humanoid form as the normal one and the giant snake one as an unpractical transformation. She can't even use Hell Gate like that. But yes Chandler's appearance might be related to Indura.

Considering the strength of the opponents I think being above 60K will be necessary in the future. I had said this before in the Ranking the Sins thread I believe, but with King being at 40K even with his tiny wings I am even more convinced that it will be the case. An increase of about 10K for King with full wings seems too little to me. I think Merlin and Gowther are already at such level and it's probably why Nakaba is not revealing it, unlike the two others who are currently growing. Gowther's PL should be comparable or equal to his father's, and he is implied to be pretty strong. Once they revealed that he was Papa Gowther's proxy, who was a great magician and Demon, I wondered if he had the ability to use the PoD or other magic spells as well. Maybe it's possible.

Based on her explanation it seemed like she was only affected by galand's commandment because she forgot she had an immunity or resistance to them to begin with. And then when she remembered she got rid of the commandment's effect.

I don't know about artificial or created (that sounds like gowther) however it does not seem to be a stretch that whoever the belialin folk were could have some sort of power demons fear. It would justify greyroad's reaction to merlin. However I still think the key behind this is a great power behind that race as a great power is what is required to resist or deal with curses from the DK/SG.

The manga described indura as releasing their true nature. But that seems fairly different from "true form" as that is not a form they ever had to begin with. When it comes to melascula, her snake form is her actual true form. That is her unadulterated form. Which in context means that her humanoid form, however practical it might be, is an.... adulterated form.

True, at this point king reaching 60k doesn't seem quite enough. I had the theory that at some point in the future the demon world's induras were going to be released to fight the sins, somehow... So perhaps that will be where the sins will have to clock at at the endgame. Who knows where indura's clock at though.

Gowther has never evidenced POD... I am not sure if it would make sense for him to have it at this point. of course, conceptuall he could obtain it through other means. Still, he isn't biological son of papa gowther so he shouldn't necessarily share his biological traits.

 

[Demonspeed]

Based on her explanation it seemed like she was only affected by galand's commandment because she forgot she had an immunity or resistance to them to begin with. And then when she remembered she got rid of the commandment's effect.

I don't know about artificial or created (that sounds like gowther) however it does not seem to be a stretch that whoever the belialin folk were could have some sort of power demons fear. It would justify greyroad's reaction to merlin. However I still think the key behind this is a great power behind that race as a great power is what is required to resist or deal with curses from the DK/SG.

The manga described indura as releasing their true nature. But that seems fairly different from "true form" as that is not a form they ever had to begin with. When it comes to melascula, her snake form is her actual true form. That is her unadulterated form. Which in context means that her humanoid form, however practical it might be, is an.... adulterated form.

True, at this point king reaching 60k doesn't seem quite enough. I had the theory that at some point in the future the demon world's induras were going to be released to fight the sins, somehow... So perhaps that will be where the sins will have to clock at at the endgame. Who knows where indura's clock at though.

Gowther has never evidenced POD... I am not sure if it would make sense for him to have it at this point. of course, conceptuall he could obtain it through other means. Still, he isn't biological son of papa gowther so he shouldn't necessarily share his biological traits.

But an immunity should be passive. The way I understood it, she remembered that she had a natural resistance and managed to cancel it thanks to this. If it had been someone else it would have been impossible. I see Mera's snake transformation as something like an inferior Indura. She still has her mind but she can't even use Magic. Considering the power up doesn't even seem to be that big, isn't she inferior to the humanoid form?

As for Gowther, I considered this because he was his creator's proxy. Gowther Sr. was fighting through him and was a Demon. It makes sense in theory.

 

[kkck]

But an immunity should be passive. The way I understood it, she remembered that she had a natural resistance and managed to cancel it thanks to this. If it had been someone else it would have been impossible. I see Mera's snake transformation as something like an inferior Indura. She still has her mind but she can't even use Magic. Considering the power up doesn't even seem to be that big, isn't she inferior to the humanoid form?

As for Gowther, I considered this because he was his creator's proxy. Gowther Sr. was fighting through him and was a Demon. It makes sense in theory.

I am not sure the bit about her immunity makes that big a difference. What she claims happened is that she remembered she had the immunity and then canceled the commandment. So... what's the issue here?

The context difference between indura and melascula's transformation is very large though. Melascula's snake form is simply what she is, her actual true appearance. It's her humanoid form which is the fake one. Which is not to say her humanoid form is without advantages as at worst melascula couldn't even use her magic in her snake form. I do think it is plausible she simply didn't get a chance to use her magic once she confronted the sins in her snake form as she was quickly overwhelmed. Melascula's snake form seems to give her strength a boost. However her magic remains the same and at best her strength increase is relevant against normal giants which next to diane's 48k PL (which should give diane around 30k strength) is just about worthless.

Wouldn't doll gowther have seven hearts if he had POD? Kinda like how even galan, who was presumably an armor before he became a demon, had 7 hearts? It is plausible doll gowther has demon powers though IMO if he had any there should be more evidence than there is by this point. To add to that, doll gowther not eat, drink nor gets drunk from alcohol. Even galan required food. Gowther shouldn't be able to be a full fledged demon and a doll simultaneously.

 

[ShadowHeart]

Anyone find her father design not impressive? Her birthplace looks interesting upside pyramids and Albions too. Definitely a connection between her clan and Demons. In fact wouldn't surprise me if their the demon Druids version.

 

[Demonspeed]

Not really disappointed but surprised. He looks like a Human and I don't think he is one. If he is, then there must be something special about Merlin's mother. Assuming she has one...

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2017 ---

Now that we know that the Commandments are parts of the DK's powers, her resistance to them looks even more impressive. I am not sure that's related to Goddess powers but what else could it be at this point?