Discussion Merlin

[Aonori]

She'd have to catch them first. We saw with Galan that no matter how powerful the mage, if the spells are incapable of reaching the enemy, the mage is done for.
She's pretty powerful, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she'll win no matter what. Perfect Cube is more often used as a defensive technique due to its "trapping" stationary objects. If it's an opponent who can outrun the initiation period of a teleportation technique, they'll have no problem avoiding Perfect Cube. And besides, even if they were caught, it wouldn't result in Merlin's victory, but rather a temporary stalemate.

Merlin has limited magic, despite her abilities' having unlimited duration. Additionally, she cannot, until proven otherwise, use spells which are inherent to other clans, as in the Goddesses' Ark, the Giants' Creation, the Fairies' nature control, and so on.


Meh, if the Commandments are capable of dodging an Omega Ark from two elite angels, Meliodas won't have any issues with a subpar version of it, even if Merlin had her hands on such abilities, which she (very) likely doesn't.

Fair enough, we saw she could still be hit by commandments, however the fact she just like Mel could end up bypassing the effs of a Commandment like Galan´s commandment is quite a feat honestly.

True, but it would give her time to cast another spell, the hax here is that whatever she casts is endless and we know she´s archmage material with how much magics she has showcased so far, Nakaba, hardly even tries to hide it, Merlin as pretty strong, easily best magician, even the commandments cant keep up and I seriously have doubts that the goddesses except for Goddess queen and Demon King actually have spells that far outweight the capacity + added endless duration, of Merlin´s and I say this because well Mera was kinda dissapointing lol

She´s Belialin´s daughter and the commandments pissed themselves up when they found out, there´s nothing else currently known about Merlin´s spell capacity, aside from she being able to cast a lot of spells lol and it wouldnt be past her to be able to use ark, depending on her lineage, assuming Belialin has goddess ties. Even if she cant do the rest of those kinds of spells, it doesnt seem like she will need them with what she has currently in her arsenal and spells are no joke, in this series, she took out one commandment with one + infinity and Mera could trap Escanor and steal his soul with Dark Cocoon when he was caught off guard, even Mel himself had to be saved by Ban when Mera was about to separate his soul from his body, so Mel and Escanor are definitely not invincible against Spellcasters and much less Merlin, but I do agree any of their losses would depend a lot on the situation at hand.

That wont matter much if she can do things like enchant herself or curse her enemies, so far Merlin showcased to be a proper archmage, she hardly has any competition, Mera still the best conjurer/summoner, but Merlin´s spells are more dangerous lol, limited magic or not, if the spells she casts have a endless Duration Mel and escanor will be at a disadvantage, either they overpower the spells used against them right off the bat or they will have a bad time

Even if she doesnt, a endless duration ark alone would still be doing some decent super eff. on a Demon like Mel, Derriere a high ranked 10 commandment, got damaged by one of those, if Mel or anyother 10 commandment was hit by a omega ark even if by a small amount of time, they would sustain humongous damage. The best way to use the spell though is to surround the user in it, that way is more effective since the Demons have high speed feats they would dodge for the most part.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Fair enough, we saw she could still be hit by commandments, however the fact she just like Mel could end up bypassing the effs of a Commandment like Galan´s commandment is quite a feat honestly.

True, but it would give her time to cast another spell, the hax here is that whatever she casts is endless and we know she´s archmage material with how much magics she has showcased so far, Nakaba, hardly even tries to hide it, Merlin as pretty strong, easily best magician, even the commandments cant keep up and I seriously have doubts that the goddesses except for Goddess queen and Demon King actually have spells that far outweight the capacity + added endless duration, of Merlin´s and I say this because well Mera was kinda dissapointing lol

She´s Belialin´s daughter and the commandments pissed themselves up when they found out, there´s nothing else currently known about Merlin´s spell capacity, aside from she being able to cast a lot of spells lol and it wouldnt be past her to be able to use ark, depending on her lineage, assuming Belialin has goddess ties. Even if she cant do the rest of those kinds of spells, it doesnt seem like she will need them with what she has currently in her arsenal and spells are no joke, in this series, she took out one commandment with one + infinity and Mera could trap Escanor and steal his soul with Dark Cocoon when he was caught off guard, even Mel himself had to be saved by Ban when Mera was about to separate his soul from his body, so Mel and Escanor are definitely not invincible against Spellcasters and much less Merlin, but I do agree any of their losses would depend a lot on the situation at hand.

That wont matter much if she can do things like enchant herself or curse her enemies, so far Merlin showcased to be a proper archmage, she hardly has any competition, Mera still the best conjurer/summoner, but Merlin´s spells are more dangerous lol, limited magic or not, if the spells she casts have a endless Duration Mel and escanor will be at a disadvantage, either they overpower the spells used against them right off the bat or they will have a bad time

Even if she doesnt, a endless duration ark alone would still be doing some decent super eff. on a Demon like Mel, Derriere a high ranked 10 commandment, got damaged by one of those, if Mel or anyother 10 commandment was hit by a omega ark even if by a small amount of time, they would sustain humongous damage. The best way to use the spell though is to surround the user in it, that way is more effective since the Demons have high speed feats they would dodge for the most part.

Why do people keep saying saying that Melascula trapped Escanor? Escanor didn't even try to escape, so to say that she trapped him doesn't make sense. Plus it's already been established that her magic is inferior to the demon kings magic. She needed Elizabeth to break her out Zeldris' curse. Plus she can't break Meliodas' curse, only Demon King tier magic can do that by his own admittance. The only reason she really beat Grayroad was because the idiot got scared and separated. Fraudrin isn't even a commandment, he's a stand in who was trapped in Dreyfus' body.

I can't see her beating any of the commandments in a true 1v1. She even said that they would need to train to beat Galand, who wasn't even in his critical over mode yet. Against Estarossa, Zeldris, Drole, Gloxinia, and Derieri she gets speed blitzed before she can do anything. If she's put in the cocoon by Melascula she's trapped unless she can teleport. It doesn't matter if her spells can last forever, she doesn't have anything strong enough that she's shown so far. Plus infinity doesn't make her spells stronger, it just makes them last for a long time. If she had a fire spell and someone had a water spell of the same power, her spell would lose because infinity has only been stated to extend time indefinitely.

In short, Merlin has no feats. Gray road was a sham because she wasn't even whole when she fought Merlin and Fraudrin was in Dreyfus's body, and Dreyfus by default is weaker.

 

[Aonori]

Why do people keep saying saying that Melascula trapped Escanor? Escanor didn't even try to escape, so to say that she trapped him doesn't make sense. Plus it's already been established that her magic is inferior to the demon kings magic. She needed Elizabeth to break her out Zeldris' curse. Plus she can't break Meliodas' curse, only Demon King tier magic can do that by his own admittance. The only reason she really beat Grayroad was because the idiot got scared and separated. Fraudrin isn't even a commandment, he's a stand in who was trapped in Dreyfus' body.

I can't see her beating any of the commandments in a true 1v1. She even said that they would need to train to beat Galand, who wasn't even in his critical over mode yet. Against Estarossa, Zeldris, Drole, Gloxinia, and Derieri she gets speed blitzed before she can do anything. If she's put in the cocoon by Melascula she's trapped unless she can teleport. It doesn't matter if her spells can last forever, she doesn't have anything strong enough that she's shown so far. Plus infinity doesn't make her spells stronger, it just makes them last for a long time. If she had a fire spell and someone had a water spell of the same power, her spell would lose because infinity has only been stated to extend time indefinitely.

BS he said she could escape Mera said fuck it and went for a surprise attack with Dark Cocoon, whether or not he could´ve broken out of it, the thing is Escanor got caught off guard in the moment and would´ve died if it wasnt for his power, the dark cocoon is a good example of how a low power levelled spell caster can take out someone much stronger, Ban was stronger than Mera he got caught in the spell he couldnt do jackshit.

Demon King and godess Queen´s magic output capacity is definitely stronger than Merlin´s but their spells durations arent, they are just powerful enough to keep the duration of said curses.

Please, she said that after she was stroke by a commandment and she said it especifically to the other sins which were weaker or nerfed at the time, they would´ve to meet the druids anyway to get Meliodas full power back anyways, she hardly needed any proper training to beat a commandment.

Lol, Grayroad was fodderized and he had one of the best commandments, which didnt even work against Merlin you kidding me? Estarossa´s power is useless against Merlin, so it´s a bad match up, for him, Dolor and Gloxinia are not capable threats to Merlin lol, Mel and Escanor easily fodderized them both, when they were together, on a one on one they would be fucked against Merlin, not a chance. With Derriere, Merlin wont let her get close to land her combos, and can just use her magic for keeping a distance pure and simple, the idea that she wouldnt keep a distance when fighting the commandments with the most dangerous physical powers, makes no sense and we dont even know how much spells she was actually learned or not, all we know is she´s archmage level and knows a lot, she probably has a higher amount of spells learnt than her aprentice Vivian (which displayed elemental spells, amplifying power output spells, etc...), just a food for thought here. Against Zeldris she had no chance because one, she was caught off guard and he can be powered up by the demon king, which would make him a much more powerful spell caster.

The fact Merlin can just get away from the effs of a commandment alone now, whereas Mel and Escanor, need to watch out, should be a good evidence of how powerful she is, you are clearly downplaying her lol.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

BS he said she could escape Mera said fuck it and went for a surprise attack with Dark Cocoon, whether or not he could´ve broken out of it, the thing is Escanor got caught off guard in the moment and would´ve died if it wasnt for his power, the dark cocoon is a good example of how a low power levelled spell caster can take out someone much stronger, Ban was stronger than Mera he got caught in the spell he couldnt do jackshit.

Demon King and godess Queen´s magic output capacity is definitely stronger than Merlin´s but their spells durations arent, they are just powerful enough to keep the duration of said curses.

Please, she said that after she was stroke by a commandment and she said it especifically to the other sins which were weaker or nerfed at the time, they would´ve to meet the druids anyway to get Meliodas full power back anyways, she hardly needed any proper training to beat a commandment.

Lol, Grayroad was fodderized and he had one of the best commandments, which didnt even work against Merlin you kidding me? Estarossa´s power is useless against Merlin, so it´s a bad match up, for him, Dolor and Gloxinia are not capable threats to Merlin lol, Mel and Escanor easily fodderized them both, when they were together, on a one on one they would be fucked against Merlin, not a chance. With Derriere, Merlin wont let her get close to land her combos, and can just use her magic for keeping a distance pure and simple, the idea that she wouldnt keep a distance when fighting the commandments with the most dangerous physical powers, makes no sense and we dont even know how much spells she was actually learned or not, all we know is she´s archmage level and knows a lot, she probably has a higher amount of spells learnt than her aprentice Vivian (which displayed elemental spells, amplifying power output spells, etc...), just a food for thought here. Against Zeldris she had no chance because one, she was caught off guard and he can be powered up by the demon king, which would make him a much more powerful spell caster.

The fact Merlin can just get away from the effs of a commandment alone now, whereas Mel and Escanor, need to watch out, should be a good evidence of how powerful she is, you are clearly downplaying her lol.

1. Ban is a physical fighter, he has no magic to break out and Melascula has stated that basically only demon king tier magic can break it. Escanor wasn't caught off guard, he simply didn't care. re read the chapter and you'll see that his expression was completely relaxed. He willingly acts reckless because of his pride.

1.5 Melascula is low leveled with spells??? If you have a spell that can only be broken with Demon King tier magic you are arguably one of the strongest in the series. However, Melascual isn't the best fighter, so her magic is moot and she's low tier. Melascula is basically Merlin in this situation so if anything it just proves my point. Also, how could Escanor be caught off guard if he was looking right at her? His face was literally the face that we all have when sitting through a boring school lecture.

2. Power wins the fight, not duration unless you're basically Escanor. Also you cannot train to fight against a commandment's curse... They are absolute and only Merlin can resist them because she has a special resistance that cannot be taught. When she said train she literally meant Galand is stronger than us and we need more power. Don't twist her words.

3. Who cares about the commandment curses? They're just curses that have loopholes. Gray road lost because she's a wimp. If you know what they are there's pretty much loopholes around them.

4. Drole and Gloxinia aren't threats? Are you implying that Merlin is Meliodas and Escanor tier without listing any real feats?!?! I'm sorry but thats far fetched. Estarossa can react and move faster than ban can trace. Merlin cannot create distance when she is outrun and beaten physically. She's not a physical fighter. The last time we saw a magic user vs a physical user it ended very very very poorly for the magical user (Gloxinia). You can have all the magic in the world, but if you can't fight you're screwed.

5. Merlin has a special resistance to commandments that Meliodas and Escanor don't possess. You cannot compare apples to oranges. By that logic I could say Escanor has the strongest soul in the entirety of nanatsu because it cannot be consumed. Merlin did not break out of the curse with her own power. It's just that she has a special loop hole.

6. You're giving Merlin the Estarossa treatment and we all know what happened with the Estarossa treatment... You cannot just say "Well Merlin could keep her distance and go pew pew pew with magic and win." She'd be blitzed or something else. Unless you're going to imply that Merlin has the physical capabilities of Estarossa. We've already seen magic users lose because they cannot keep up in battle.

7. Estarossa would kill Merlin before she could land a single hit. Be realistic. Merlin is nowhere near his level. She hasn't beaten anyone worth talking about. Gray road divided her power when she split up. Dreyfus is low tier. Also, Meliodas cannot bypass the effects of a commandment. Demon King said so himself. We don't even know how Zeldris' commandment fully works either way. There's actually a theory that it takes a while to set in and someone else suggested that he has to give a command of sorts for you to become his servant. And while were at it I'm really curious as to what you think her current power level is. Because so far in these last few chapters she's only been slightly more useful than Ban. She did nothing to weaken Diane, and only beat a few skeletons with divided power. While wanking Meliodas and saying "Oh he was in line to be demon king so you can't win"

 

[HereNThere]

Merlin's Magic is hax, but it's function doesn't equate to power. Same can be said about her resistance to the Commandments Curses. Ban is resistant to death, but it hasn't stopped him from getting his ass handed to him 6 ways to Sunday over the past year.

Not saying she isn't currently powerful, but from what we've seen currently, she isn't taking on Escanor or Mel.

 

[ShadowHeart]

Why do people keep saying saying that Melascula trapped Escanor? Escanor didn't even try to escape, so to say that she trapped him doesn't make sense. Plus it's already been established that her magic is inferior to the demon kings magic. She needed Elizabeth to break her out Zeldris' curse. Plus she can't break Meliodas' curse, only Demon King tier magic can do that by his own admittance. The only reason she really beat Grayroad was because the idiot got scared and separated. Fraudrin isn't even a commandment, he's a stand in who was trapped in Dreyfus' body.

I can't see her beating any of the commandments in a true 1v1. She even said that they would need to train to beat Galand, who wasn't even in his critical over mode yet. Against Estarossa, Zeldris, Drole, Gloxinia, and Derieri she gets speed blitzed before she can do anything. If she's put in the cocoon by Melascula she's trapped unless she can teleport. It doesn't matter if her spells can last forever, she doesn't have anything strong enough that she's shown so far. Plus infinity doesn't make her spells stronger, it just makes them last for a long time. If she had a fire spell and someone had a water spell of the same power, her spell would lose because infinity has only been stated to extend time indefinitely.

In short, Merlin has no feats. Gray road was a sham because she wasn't even whole when she fought Merlin and Fraudrin was in Dreyfus's body, and Dreyfus by default is weaker.

Your vastly underestimate Merlin here she's easily above low/mid-tier Commandments level. The fact she easily capture Greyroad proves it no matter how you spin that fight.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Your vastly underestimate Merlin here she's easily above low/mid-tier Commandments level. The fact she easily capture Greyroad proves it no matter how you spin that fight.

She captured a weakened Gray Road... She's never fought a commandment at full power so how can you even say that? If anything characters that only win under handicapped terms make me dislike them even more.

Can you provide any feats that would suggest she's "mid tier", because fact of the matter is the only reason people are calling Merlin special is because of infinity, (which doesn't guarantee that she won't get speed blitzed or killed by a stronger magic user) and because she's got a hyped up dad. I'll call her strong when she proves her worth, but she really hasn't done much. She only has one fight that she fought alone and that's against a weakened Gray Road. Where is this mindless hype coming from???

 

[ShadowHeart]

She captured a weakened Gray Road... She's never fought a commandment at full power so how can you even say that? If anything characters that only win under handicapped terms make me dislike them even more.

Can you provide any feats that would suggest she's "mid tier", because fact of the matter is the only reason people are calling Merlin special is because of infinity, (which doesn't guarantee that she won't get speed blitzed or killed by a stronger magic user) and because she's got a hyped up dad. I'll call her strong when she proves her worth, but she really hasn't done much. She only has one fight that she fought alone and that's against a weakened Gray Road. Where is this mindless hype coming from???

Where's your proof Merlin beat a weakened Greyroad? As for proof Merlin "mid tier" how about the fact she easily beat a Commandment. A Commandment that had a power level of 39,000 mind you. Greyroad couldn't touch Merlin that's why she fled. Merlin easily and casually undid Greyroad "Curse magic" and destroyed one of her faces. Where did you get she's has a hyped dad? Because Belialuin is her birthplace not parent.

 

[Gallon]

Grayroad's probably the weakest Commandment. Her magic spells are barely offensive, and the way she utilizes her decree's ability makes up for most of her fighting. Once you bypass that, like Merlin did, you get rid of her biggest advantage and put her in a massive disadvantage - she will not be able to kill you, restricting her options even further than her already limited set of offensive skills.
None of the other Commandments rely on their decrees nearly as much.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Where's your proof Merlin beat a weakened Greyroad? As for proof Merlin "mid tier" how about the fact she easily beat a Commandment. A Commandment that had a power level of 39,000 mind you. Greyroad couldn't touch Merlin that's why she fled. Merlin easily and casually undid Greyroad "Curse magic" and destroyed one of her faces. Where did you get she's has a hyped dad? Because Belialuin is her birthplace not parent.

GrayRoad was weakened because she was in a divided state. Nanatsu already established that clones are weaker than the original and plus look at Diane, when she isn't in her whole size she is weaker. Also, it's funny how Fraudrin wasn't sucked in despite the fact that he too felt the effects of Merlin's attack. Is fraudrin/Dreyfus stronger than GrayRoad??? As a matter of fact everyone else felt the sucking effects but they weren't dragged in. GrayRoad couldn't touch Merlin??? Re read the chapter. She tried running because she heard Merlin's true name and got scared. Plus Not to mention grayroad isn't durable because she's basically just a clump of gray demons. I'd consider Merlin weak if she couldn't damage grayroad and I'm also considering it sad that people assume that a divided gray demon is a threat in the slightest.

Only GrayRoad fell victim to Merlin's attack, despite the fact that everyone else around felt the vortex. Even Fraudrin had to hang onto something. And a holy knight noted that she wasn't holding back, so yeah grayroad was weak and Merlin's attack isn't one of her deadliest ones.

The only thing I will give her credit for is breaking GrayRoad's lost five curse. Other than that her whirlspell couldn't even trap Fraudrin, the holy knights also resisted it while it was at full power, and by basic evidence GrayRoad was weakened when she divided. Technically by using math she had to be weaker because she's a clump of gray demons, so if you take away one she loses power as they all add up when they are joined.

Again, she's only had one fight against a weakened GrayRoad. GrayRoad ran from her and her spell couldn't even lift Fraudrin or any of the weaker holy knights up off the ground despite it being at full power... tbh she doesn't deserve this hype where people are going around saying that Derier, Drole, and Gloxinia aren't threats to her because "muh infinity!!!! and muh teleport!!!" The last time a mage tried teleporting away from the commands they flat out said it wouldn't work because they aren't fast enough to escape from the 10C.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

She captured a weakened Gray Road... She's never fought a commandment at full power so how can you even say that? If anything characters that only win under handicapped terms make me dislike them even more.

Can you provide any feats that would suggest she's "mid tier", because fact of the matter is the only reason people are calling Merlin special is because of infinity, (which doesn't guarantee that she won't get speed blitzed or killed by a stronger magic user) and because she's got a hyped up dad. I'll call her strong when she proves her worth, but she really hasn't done much. She only has one fight that she fought alone and that's against a weakened Gray Road. Where is this mindless hype coming from???

Meliodas is most scared of her. How about that. This comes from either an SbS or Q&A column in the manga

 

[Piety]

Meliodas is most scared of her. How about that. This comes from either an SbS or Q&A column in the manga

It says the one person he doesn't want to make an enemy of is Merlin. It could mean two things. He doesn't want her as an enemy because they are really close friends or because she is scary. Mel has no fear against her tbh. He can probably attack her before she has time to react but I can't say that 100% because we never seen it yet

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Meliodas is most scared of her. How about that. This comes from either an SbS or Q&A column in the manga

And she's afraid of him, your point. I doubt their mutual fear has anything to do with power. Plus there's no clear evidence to use that as a point to merlins power, there's only speculation which isn't worth the time.

 

[Aonori]

Grayroad's probably the weakest Commandment. Her magic spells are barely offensive, and the way she utilizes her decree's ability makes up for most of her fighting. Once you bypass that, like Merlin did, you get rid of her biggest advantage and put her in a massive disadvantage - she will not be able to kill you, restricting her options even further than her already limited set of offensive skills.
None of the other Commandments rely on their decrees nearly as much.

Probably is not certainly and even so Grayroad would´ve compensated for this weakness with his commandment, he was paired off with Fraudrin who was way weaker than him and had to come in and save his ass many times in the manga lol, his commandment is easily top 3, or simply the best one we´ve seen thus far, you kill someone in his presence you die, pure and simple the other commandments arent nearly as powerful as this one, yet, Merlin can just hax her way out of it, no way Escanor could do something like this, for instance and most of the sins is nowhere near Merlin when it comes to counter commandments that target her, she was targetted twice, one time it landed and she had to come up with a way to counter it, the next time the commandment being used against her was worthless.

I think taking the commandments out of the equation when thinking of a character´s overal threat level and danger in a fight in general is bad, because just by power level logic Meliodas and Escanor can take out most of the commandments, but if they get targetted by the right commandment they are done, like we´ve seen with Estarossa´s.

And it´s not about the commandments relying on their decrees much, but rather the conditions for activating the decrees arent nearly as convenient as Grayroad´s, Estarossa´s wont work on Escanor, Mera´s will only work on fodder, Galan´s can simply be countered by keeping your mouth shut, etc... these arent as nearly useful commandments as Grayroad´s, being able to kill someone who kills in your presence is a great commandment to have and using it is a good form of strategy to take out stronger enemies.

 

[Gallon]

Probably is not certainly and even so Grayroad would´ve compensated for this weakness with his commandment, he was paired off with Fraudrin who was way weaker than him and had to come in and save his ass many times in the manga lol, his commandment is easily top 3, or simply the best one we´ve seen thus far, you kill someone in his presence you die, pure and simple the other commandments arent nearly as powerful as this one, yet, Merlin can just hax her way out of it, no way Escanor could do something like this, for instance and most of the sins is nowhere near Merlin when it comes to counter commandments that target her, she was targetted twice, one time it landed and she had to come up with a way to counter it, the next time the commandment being used against her was worthless.

I think taking the commandments out of the equation when thinking of a character´s overal threat level and danger in a fight in general is bad, because just by power level logic Meliodas and Escanor can take out most of the commandments, but if they get targetted by the right commandment they are done, like we´ve seen with Estarossa´s.

And it´s not about the commandments relying on their decrees much, but rather the conditions for activating the decrees arent nearly as convenient as Grayroad´s, Estarossa´s wont work on Escanor, Mera´s will only work on fodder, Galan´s can simply be countered by keeping your mouth shut, etc... these arent as nearly useful commandments as Grayroad´s, being able to kill someone who kills in your presence is a great commandment to have and using it is a good form of strategy to take out stronger enemies.

That proves even more that she relies on her decree far too much. Pacifism is not an inherent ability of hers, it's one bequeathed to her by the Demon King. Once you bypass it, Grayroad is the weakest Commandment.
And I said she relies on it a bit too much, not the rest.

 

[LYEL]

I wouldn't say Merlin is the strongest, but I dare to say she is the one with the biggest potential between the sins to be one of the strongest. The fact that Meliodas and Merlin "fear" each other has nothing to do with power alone, but in the recent chapters we could see that both share the longest friendship and probably know each other more than anyone else (That's what Meliodas said after she was pulverized by Zeldris' curse) and because of this they can imagine what they are thinking (Like in the special chapter "Sin on vacation" where Merlin was the only one who suspected Meliodas was trying to use them to gain some money to buy a gift for Elizabeth and in the recents chapters when Meliodas comments on her true intentions about protect Arthur and no intention in save Kamelot or defeat the 10C).

"knowledge is power" and when you know too much about an andversary you learn to respect him. But first things first... Why Meliodas and Merlin would fight against each other when they are companions for more than 3k years? In an imaginary scenario where they would have to fight each other, the mage wouldn't be crazy enough to fight him head on, like she did previously before the manga started, when she stole Meliodas powers, Merlin would wait for the best chance to attack and take him down and steal his powers, looking at the flashback I could see that Merlin put him to sleep since he was in a berserk state destroying everything around after someone almost killed the young Liz.

It's hard to speculate who would win or lose, but Meliodas is the protagonist, is the most powerful being in the plot and this is enough cheating in a character to make him win any battle. Merlin on the other hand is a complete mystery to us atm, i can't say she is the strongest or the weakest because we don't know what she can really do, Nakaba made Merlin only fight against enemies she had the upper hand in the first moment of the battle, that's why it looked like she was op, i have no doubts she is strong or the others sins woudn't treat her with respect, even Meliodas talk in a different tone when they are alone, just that is enough to make me wonder her potential as a character.

Nakaba is making us wait too much to learn more about her and about Escanor. These 2 sins are the ones we have almost zero info in the story, but if I had to bet between Meliodas x Escanor x Merlin I have no doubt Meliodas is the strongest for obvious reasons, second I would say Escanor because even the sins recognize his potential and after him Merlin because we are talking about a manga for male readers and there's no way they would make a female character as the strongest when the readers identify themselves with male characters and brute force.

 

[kkck]

I would still think it is a bit of a stretch to say merlin is the strongest sin. Her magic "infinity" is insane for a number of reasons but it does not necessarily make her OP. Infinity does not affect how powerful her attacks, it affects how long they last. So her spells can only be as powerful as her PL allows... exactly as anyone else. The best case scenario would be something like using a spell as if she was going to do an short burst of it at full power and instantly applying infinity to it. Assuming of course activating infinity consumes more magic than otherwise using a spell normally. I wonder if perhaps infinity's true nature is actually tapping into an otherwise unlimited source of power which powers up merlin's spells indefinitely... Sins using other things as power sources is not unheard of after all. Escanor with the sun, king with the sacred tree, diane with the earth...

 

[Aonori]

I would still think it is a bit of a stretch to say merlin is the strongest sin. Her magic "infinity" is insane for a number of reasons but it does not necessarily make her OP. Infinity does not affect how powerful her attacks, it affects how long they last. So her spells can only be as powerful as her PL allows... exactly as anyone else. The best case scenario would be something like using a spell as if she was going to do an short burst of it at full power and instantly applying infinity to it. Assuming of course activating infinity consumes more magic than otherwise using a spell normally. I wonder if perhaps infinity's true nature is actually tapping into an otherwise unlimited source of power which powers up merlin's spells indefinitely... Sins using other things as power sources is not unheard of after all. Escanor with the sun, king with the sacred tree, diane with the earth...

For me her infinity can be OP depending on how much spells she can cast, if it was a matter of Merlin only being able to cast a few select spells, infinity wouldnt be as dangerous, but one gotta think, about what Merlin as done so far and how hax magicians are in this series, Vivian who was clearly weaker than Merlin could cast elemental spells, multiplier spells, etc... while other characters have a clearly more limited spell acess, Mera as well was capable of doing a lot of strong ass spells on her own and when it comes to Merlin she easily outmatches both, has 3k years of experience, which means she knows even more spells than Vivian, and gave her time to do experiments which makes her just as more dangerous.

Now many can say that she might not be able to pull stronger output spells that bypass her magic limits in poweroutput since she has a actual limit and while I do agree partially on that, what if she is able to cast spells that grow stronger in power over time? It´s not far fetched to assume she could do that, at the very least under the right conditions, and on the subject of shonen elements, isnt it also a shonen thing to do, to have sometimes characters being able to create attacks like these that get stronger over time? I saw it happening on One Piece and Magi already so I dont see how Merlin wouldnt be able to do something like this as well, in fact consideering how Nakaba does his writting, I wouldnt be surprised if we saw Merlin performing something of the sort in the near future.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 15, 2017 ---

That proves even more that she relies on her decree far too much. Pacifism is not an inherent ability of hers, it's one bequeathed to her by the Demon King. Once you bypass it, Grayroad is the weakest Commandment.
And I said she relies on it a bit too much, not the rest.

And the only way to bypass it, is either play strategic very well, or using downright hax, the fact the sins had to find away to bypass Grayroad´s commandment proves she was a mid. tier commandment who actually was a threat, I´m sorry to say this but most of the other "stronger commandments", didnt know what the fuck they were doing in their fights, Estarossa´s commandment for instance came very in handy a lot of times and was showcased, but a lot of the others hardly were, Monspiet and derriere´s way out for instance, Galan´s use of his commandment while drunk and ending up being himself petrified, etc... Grayroad had it the hardest if you ask me, being paired up with Fraudrin the lowest of the lowest and having to save his ass multiple times, was nothing but a way to showcase Grayroad as a actual threat and also was one of the few commandments to actually get casualties done in Liones, in fact he was the one who did the most secondary character casualties, out of all commandments 2 secondary characters killed because of her and I´m yet to see the other commandments do better, than just killing some fodder, so no Grayroad wasnt the weakest commandment and using wits to win in a fight scenario should be looked up upon, she shouldnt be seen as weaker for doing it, but smarter than most of the other commandments actually.

I dont see any sins except Merlin and Gowther being able to deal with the Grayroad threat without dying so yeah, we shouldnt be downplaying her feats, she was one of the most dangerous commandments and her commandment is easily the best we´ve seen so far.

 

[Kay3795]

I wouldn't say Merlin is the strongest, but I dare to say she is the one with the biggest potential between the sins to be one of the strongest. The fact that Meliodas and Merlin "fear" each other has nothing to do with power alone, but in the recent chapters we could see that both share the longest friendship and probably know each other more than anyone else (That's what Meliodas said after she was pulverized by Zeldris' curse) and because of this they can imagine what they are thinking (Like in the special chapter "Sin on vacation" where Merlin was the only one who suspected Meliodas was trying to use them to gain some money to buy a gift for Elizabeth and in the recents chapters when Meliodas comments on her true intentions about protect Arthur and no intention in save Kamelot or defeat the 10C).

"knowledge is power" and when you know too much about an andversary you learn to respect him. But first things first... Why Meliodas and Merlin would fight against each other when they are companions for more than 3k years? In an imaginary scenario where they would have to fight each other, the mage wouldn't be crazy enough to fight him head on, like she did previously before the manga started, when she stole Meliodas powers, Merlin would wait for the best chance to attack and take him down and steal his powers, looking at the flashback I could see that Merlin put him to sleep since he was in a berserk state destroying everything around after someone almost killed the young Liz.

It's hard to speculate who would win or lose, but Meliodas is the protagonist, is the most powerful being in the plot and this is enough cheating in a character to make him win any battle. Merlin on the other hand is a complete mystery to us atm, i can't say she is the strongest or the weakest because we don't know what she can really do, Nakaba made Merlin only fight against enemies she had the upper hand in the first moment of the battle, that's why it looked like she was op, i have no doubts she is strong or the others sins woudn't treat her with respect, even Meliodas talk in a different tone when they are alone, just that is enough to make me wonder her potential as a character.

Nakaba is making us wait too much to learn more about her and about Escanor. These 2 sins are the ones we have almost zero info in the story, but if I had to bet between Meliodas x Escanor x Merlin I have no doubt Meliodas is the strongest for obvious reasons, second I would say Escanor because even the sins recognize his potential and after him Merlin because we are talking about a manga for male readers and there's no way they would make a female character as the strongest when the readers identify themselves with male characters and brute force.

An articulate post indeed, full of Wisdom.

Knowledge (information) is a vital resource whose value far surpasses that of Jewelry; and the application of knowledge is what determines true intelligence.

I actually like that little dynamic Nakaba has going on with Meliodas fearing & respecting Merlin as she also does him. It shows that the man fundamentally understands that information has such a value.


When Meliodas first got word of the 10C's revival, his response was to scatter or seperate them (into twos or threes) across the land because he knew exactly how insurmountable of a challenge they'd be as a group (not just numbers advantage but the Decrees) as he's been their military commander before.

People (fans) often complain how the commandment were badly treated; however, many don't think of the reason why. Against Meliodas (one whom they had knowledge of), they made haste to quickly retrieve their magic & they responded as a unit to take him down. That sort of response for Meliodas alone. Everyone else was an unknown, & as far as they were concerned, insignificant detail because they knew Meliodas & Meliodas knew them, & they saw him as the main or chief obstacle. Take off the Head & the rest will fall.

Mera (faith) is back, & she alone is making the SDS work hard because she's utilising her powers well in conjunction with the Knowledge she had received.

So yeah, Merlin is dangerous. Dangerous not just for her magic power (which must be formidable because Graylord said so) but for the Knowledge she has on the SDS & on NNT world in general. She designed the equipments to effectively monitor or shut down Escanor. She made something to depower Gowther if he went crazy. She knocked out Meliodas & took his power away from him......

 

[kkck]

For me her infinity can be OP depending on how much spells she can cast, if it was a matter of Merlin only being able to cast a few select spells, infinity wouldnt be as dangerous, but one gotta think, about what Merlin as done so far and how hax magicians are in this series, Vivian who was clearly weaker than Merlin could cast elemental spells, multiplier spells, etc... while other characters have a clearly more limited spell acess, Mera as well was capable of doing a lot of strong ass spells on her own and when it comes to Merlin she easily outmatches both, has 3k years of experience, which means she knows even more spells than Vivian, and gave her time to do experiments which makes her just as more dangerous.

Now many can say that she might not be able to pull stronger output spells that bypass her magic limits in poweroutput since she has a actual limit and while I do agree partially on that, what if she is able to cast spells that grow stronger in power over time? It´s not far fetched to assume she could do that, at the very least under the right conditions, and on the subject of shonen elements, isnt it also a shonen thing to do, to have sometimes characters being able to create attacks like these that get stronger over time? I saw it happening on One Piece and Magi already so I dont see how Merlin wouldnt be able to do something like this as well, in fact consideering how Nakaba does his writting, I wouldnt be surprised if we saw Merlin performing something of the sort in the near future.

It's usefulness really depends on the specific spell more than anything. And there is also the issue that relatively small PL differences can be the difference between a spell being deadly and it being harmless. If merlin hypothetically clocked at 40k for instance then her spells at that PL would probably just tickle, say, estarosa. Them lasting longer would only mean her spells tickle him for longer, it wouldn't make them deadlier. Well, in some cases it is perhaps possible that an spell becomes deadly but it is a situational thing. Considering how broken and hax infinity is it does have some surprising limitations.

And you are right, merlin should know many more spells than most people around, including viviane. Though I don't think it is fair to compare her to melascula. Melascula is a sort of mage/wizard as well however her area of expertise seems too different from merlin's for them to be comparable. Melascula so far seems to specialize on using her darkness, meaning a comparison to merlin in this regard is moot, her helldoor ability, another point on which merlin will never be able to compare to melascula and then soul manipulation. Which I would guess is plausibly something merlin can plausibly know if she was interested. But that is still a big if.

And then we have the spells which merlin has actually used in the series so far. The bulk of what she has done would not be particularly useful if it was infinity enhanced. Going over a few... Absolute cancel times infinity wouldn't really be useful at all. Powr amplify woudn't be useful with infinity either. Perfect cube could have it's uses. Teleportation with infinity would accomplish very little. Aqua dress would be useful (but none of us wants that). The wave dragon would be useful as the dragons would last forever. But they wouldn't be any stronger for it. If this was an attack then they would disappear the moment they connect meaning adding infinity to them is a waste. The endless whirl would be useful. Fire storm would be useful if the fire remains there. Unless she can cast it and the fire keeps being generated forever. Still, for however powerful infinity actually is the spells she has used so far wouldn't necessarily become broken under it's effects.