Battle Meryem vs Every Hunter Survival match

[mrsticky005]

Meryem has been poisoned by the Poor Man's Rose (Viz translation also it's named after a song interestingly enough). Let's say he has...3 hours left to live.

Meryem must kill every single Hunter in the world before he dies.

The Hunters must survive.

Who wins?

 

[Phantron]

Novu can just hide in his pocket dimension. Meryem presumably can't detect where the entrance is.

But assuming he knows the Hunters are located in a particular location (can be big, but not arbitarily big) and you don't have something like Novu's ability, he can easily scan the whole area and just blast the areas he can't detect and nobody is going to survive that.

 

[mrsticky005]

Novu can just hide in his pocket dimension. Meryem presumably can't detect where the entrance is.

But assuming he knows the Hunters are located in a particular location (can be big, but not arbitarily big) and you don't have something like Novu's ability, he can easily scan the whole area and just blast the areas he can't detect and nobody is going to survive that.

the whole area of the entire planet? For the sake of simplicity Outside won't be included.

 

[Phantron]

the whole area of the entire planet? For the sake of simplicity Outside won't be included.

It took him a few minutes to cover from presumably outskirts of the capital back to his palace so there's no way he can cover the entire world in 3 hours so whoever happens to be physically further away then the distance Meryem can cover in 3 hours will easily survive. He's fast but we're not talking about 'I came back from a trip around the world' DBZ kind of fast.

But if you assume that he only has to cover an area that he can physically get across in 3 hours then there's no way the Hunters will survive. His En can detect everything that isn't covered, and he can just throw aura blast down from air if he sees an obstruction. For that matter, he can just start by destroying everything until there's nothing left.

 

[mrsticky005]

It took him a few minutes to cover from presumably outskirts of the capital back to his palace so there's no way he can cover the entire world in 3 hours so whoever happens to be physically further away then the distance Meryem can cover in 3 hours will easily survive. He's fast but we're not talking about 'I came back from a trip around the world' DBZ kind of fast.

But if you assume that he only has to cover an area that he can physically get across in 3 hours then there's no way the Hunters will survive. His En can detect everything that isn't covered, and he can just throw aura blast down from air if he sees an obstruction. For that matter, he can just start by destroying everything until there's nothing left.

Yes...but wouldn't the Hunters also be trying to kill him? Not to mention the world military and all that. Poor Man's Rose was a small bomb after all
and it took Pouf to revive him from what was likely immediate death. Of course due to the poison Meryem died anyways despite him stronger than ever.

What's to stop the Hunters from nuking the crap out of him?

 

[Phantron]

Yes...but wouldn't the Hunters also be trying to kill him? Not to mention the world military and all that. Poor Man's Rose was a small bomb after all
and it took Pouf to revive him from what was likely immediate death. Of course due to the poison Meryem died anyways despite him stronger than ever.

What's to stop the Hunters from nuking the crap out of him?

Hunters don't have access to that kind of technology. Netero got one because he had the backing of whatever the world government is in HXH. I mean Hunters as a group of people aren't exactly stable. You got basically a psycho as Vice Chairman (Pariston), and you don't have to look very far to see other crazy guys they let in (Ilumi, Hisoka, and probably a lot more we don't know about). Why on earth would you give a technology that can easily start a world war to these guys?

So if you're talking about Hunters, Meryem can just nuke them from air because Hunters don't have anything to deal with flying foe, and even if some of them could somehow fly it's not like any of them possibly have a chance of beating Meryem in air combat or any other kind of combat. I suppose you can always say some Hunter might have some ultra cheap ability but that'd just be pure speculation.

Now if Meryem was assaulting the nation the Hunter HQ happened to be in, you still have problem because Meryem has a long detection range + high speed, so since he knows what the Rose does now he can just fly away before it exploded. He'd still get caught in the explosion but if you assume the explosive power drops off quickly as you get away from the center then he shouldn't suffer fatal damage, and meanwhile anybody anywhere near him when the Rose go off is totally dead. He'd probably get poisoned again but since he's already poisoned it's not a huge deal. Sure each time you drop a Rose near him it'd definitely do some damage to him but you also wouldn't have much of a country left after a few of these things. You can probably stop him but it'd probably ruin an entire nation with the amount of explosives you got to use.

 

[mrsticky005]

Hunters don't have access to that kind of technology. Netero got one because he had the backing of whatever the world government is in HXH. I mean Hunters as a group of people aren't exactly stable. You got basically a psycho as Vice Chairman (Pariston), and you don't have to look very far to see other crazy guys they let in (Ilumi, Hisoka, and probably a lot more we don't know about). Why on earth would you give a technology that can easily start a world war to these guys?

So if you're talking about Hunters, Meryem can just nuke them from air because Hunters don't have anything to deal with flying foe, and even if some of them could somehow fly it's not like any of them possibly have a chance of beating Meryem in air combat or any other kind of combat. I suppose you can always say some Hunter might have some ultra cheap ability but that'd just be pure speculation.

Now if Meryem was assaulting the nation the Hunter HQ happened to be in, you still have problem because Meryem has a long detection range + high speed, so since he knows what the Rose does now he can just fly away before it exploded. He'd still get caught in the explosion but if you assume the explosive power drops off quickly as you get away from the center then he shouldn't suffer fatal damage, and meanwhile anybody anywhere near him when the Rose go off is totally dead. He'd probably get poisoned again but since he's already poisoned it's not a huge deal. Sure each time you drop a Rose near him it'd definitely do some damage to him but you also wouldn't have much of a country left after a few of these things. You can probably stop him but it'd probably ruin an entire nation with the amount of explosives you got to use.

I'm assuming the Hunters DO get the backing from the world government due to
the threat that Meryem poses.

 

[Phantron]

I'm assuming the Hunters DO get the backing from the world government due to
the threat that Meryem poses.

Knuckles stated that a world level military can defeat Meryem and I see no reason to question that. I don't think they'd use Rose even with the world level military just because throwing one of those down in the middle of a populated area means pretty much everyone is dead and you also risk the poison spreading and wiping out an entire nation.

Pufu referred to Rose as 'strong explosives' so it's not like the power output of the Rose is something he cannot imagine humans have. Yes there was a blurb about bombs don't work on the Ants but I assume they mean like suicide bombers who only have cheap explosives. Military grade bombs/explosives ought to affect Meryem even in his second form. It won't do much damage to him but it'll eventually add up. It'd be a really bloody mess at the end though. It'd probably be like Naruto where the Raikage with super offense/defense fought against ten thousand ninjas. You'd probably have to use enough conventional weapon to level several cities before you can stop Meryem, and in such a fight the Hunters really wouldn't have much of a place. After all, any explosives strong enough to hurt Meryem will blow up whatever Hunters that are fighting near him, and you don't even want Hunters around really because Meryem can just eat them and get even more powerful.

 

[mrsticky005]

Knuckles stated that a world level military can defeat Meryem and I see no reason to question that. I don't think they'd use Rose even with the world level military just because throwing one of those down in the middle of a populated area means pretty much everyone is dead and you also risk the poison spreading and wiping out an entire nation.

Pufu referred to Rose as 'strong explosives' so it's not like the power output of the Rose is something he cannot imagine humans have. Yes there was a blurb about bombs don't work on the Ants but I assume they mean like suicide bombers who only have cheap explosives. Military grade bombs/explosives ought to affect Meryem even in his second form. It won't do much damage to him but it'll eventually add up. It'd be a really bloody mess at the end though. It'd probably be like Naruto where the Raikage with super offense/defense fought against ten thousand ninjas. You'd probably have to use enough conventional weapon to level several cities before you can stop Meryem, and in such a fight the Hunters really wouldn't have much of a place. After all, any explosives strong enough to hurt Meryem will blow up whatever Hunters that are fighting near him, and you don't even want Hunters around really because Meryem can just eat them and get even more powerful.

Well the only conditions for the Hunters to win is at least one of them must survive for the next 3 hours until Meryem dies from the Rose poisoning (as mentioned in the OP.)
So it's just a matter of can the Hunters hold Meryem back long enough?

Also the royal guards are already dead.

 

[Phantron]

Well the only conditions for the Hunters to win is at least one of them must survive for the next 3 hours until Meryem dies from the Rose poisoning (as mentioned in the OP.)
So it's just a matter of can the Hunters hold Meryem back long enough?

Also the royal guards are already dead.

There's no way to hold him back in a straight fight because each Hunter killed by Meryem makes him stronger so you can't even try to wear him down. Note that a regular army can actually wear Meryem down because he does not get stronger for eating ordinary humans.

But if you're just trying to stall enough time until Meryem dies from poison I'm sure the Hunters can pull it off. Novu alone can escape really easily. Any kind of deep underground facility would work too.

 

[mrsticky005]

There's no way to hold him back in a straight fight because each Hunter killed by Meryem makes him stronger so you can't even try to wear him down. Note that a regular army can actually wear Meryem down because he does not get stronger for eating ordinary humans.

But if you're just trying to stall enough time until Meryem dies from poison I'm sure the Hunters can pull it off. Novu alone can escape really easily. Any kind of deep underground facility would work too.

This is what I'm aiming for. I did say only one needs to survive for hunters to win
but the goal for the hunters should be all of them alive or many as possible.

So what would be the best outcome?

 

[Phantron]

This is what I'm aiming for. I did say only one needs to survive for hunters to win
but the goal for the hunters should be all of them alive or many as possible.

So what would be the best outcome?

It really depends on how this situation occurred. Is it Meryem going on a rampage and you're just trying to see who manages to escape alive before he dies from the poison? Or are you trying to minimize total collatoral damage to civilians as well? Do the Hunters even know Meryem's about to die from the poison?

Since En cannot cover underground, if the goal is survival you just dig under a deep underground bunker and hide there for three hours.

If the goal is to minimize damage to everything else Meryem might blow up, that'd be better served by the national army because each Hunter killed by Meryem only makes him stronger.

 

[mrsticky005]

It really depends on how this situation occurred. Is it Meryem going on a rampage and you're just trying to see who manages to escape alive before he dies from the poison? Or are you trying to minimize total collatoral damage to civilians as well? Do the Hunters even know Meryem's about to die from the poison?

Since En cannot cover underground, if the goal is survival you just dig under a deep underground bunker and hide there for three hours.

If the goal is to minimize damage to everything else Meryem might blow up, that'd be better served by the national army because each Hunter killed by Meryem only makes him stronger.

Imagine it as if Meryem never had a change of heart in the series and thought
"Well if I'm gonna die. I'm taking them with me."

Both the Hunters and Meryem know he will die.

 

[Phantron]

That still depends on whether the goal for the Hunters is trying to minimize number of their deaths versus number of total collatoral damage.

If the goal is everyone for themselves just start digging holes or at least put yourself inside a cardboard box MGS style. You got to avoid the En if you're supposed to have any hope of survival.

If the goal is protect other ordinary people too, well, they probably have no chance of succeeding and would just die anyway, so maybe it'll turn into the first scenario regardless.

 

[mrsticky005]

That still depends on whether the goal for the Hunters is trying to minimize number of their deaths versus number of total collatoral damage.

If the goal is everyone for themselves just start digging holes or at least put yourself inside a cardboard box MGS style. You got to avoid the En if you're supposed to have any hope of survival.

If the goal is protect other ordinary people too, well, they probably have no chance of succeeding and would just die anyway, so maybe it'll turn into the first scenario regardless.

I think it would be a combination of the two. Of course you can't save everyone.

 

[mousiehamster]

I suspect there are plenty of debilitating Specialist abilities, or even Conjured abilities, that can severely weaken Meryem. Individuals possessing these abilities will act as support whilst guys with evasive/defensive abilities tank. Imagine Porcupine fighting against Meryem. Yeah sure he'd probably be aura blasted to hell but if he sneaks up close and the King decides to punch him instead...well, I don't know. Guys with abilities that require charge-up time will definitely have time to charge up their abilities. Somebody could probably teleport a rev'd up Sphinx and there that would probably inflict non-negligible damage. The possibilities are endless. I just don't think a being like the King who has brute force can take down every Hunter in the world just like that.

 

[Phantron]

I suspect there are plenty of debilitating Specialist abilities, or even Conjured abilities, that can severely weaken Meryem. Individuals possessing these abilities will act as support whilst guys with evasive/defensive abilities tank. Imagine Porcupine fighting against Meryem. Yeah sure he'd probably be aura blasted to hell but if he sneaks up close and the King decides to punch him instead...well, I don't know. Guys with abilities that require charge-up time will definitely have time to charge up their abilities. Somebody could probably teleport a rev'd up Sphinx and there that would probably inflict non-negligible damage. The possibilities are endless. I just don't think a being like the King who has brute force can take down every Hunter in the world just like that.

The whole point is that Meryem's strength surpasses strategy, tactics, or special abilities. Going way back in the materialization example, you can't just create aura power that affects an entity whose power is far beyond the limit of human technology. Or, put it another way, you're not going to create a damage effect more powerful than the Rose, or a special effect more devastating than the Rose poison. In fact, if anyone can do either of those power they'd already be pretty much undefeatable in the world of HXH. So if you assume Meryem is already poisoned it's pointless to assume another special power could weaken him because he's already weakened by a power that's far beyond the limit of Aura (there's no possible way you can create Rose poison with Aura).

Your specialist guy would pretty much all just die before they even see Meryem since he's just that fast. You woudln't have time to charge up anything, because Meryem would kill you before you're done charging up any attack. Even if you had an ability like Cheetu's, Meryem would immediately catch up to Cheetu in this case and then break out of the artifical dimension, so even artifical dimension can't stop him.

 

[mousiehamster]

The whole point is that Meryem's strength surpasses strategy, tactics, or special abilities. Going way back in the materialization example, you can't just create aura power that affects an entity whose power is far beyond the limit of human technology. Or, put it another way, you're not going to create a damage effect more powerful than the Rose, or a special effect more devastating than the Rose poison.

I think the bit about conjured weapons being at most equivalent to real world ones is dubious. Truth is you can conjure all sorts of strange weapons and gadgets that have effects that are beyond the reach of technology. For example, how do you measure the amount of damage Sphinx does with while revved up? How much can he revv up? What sort of damage are we talking about here? It's basically impossible to compare. What about Gon's transformation condition? Whatever that condition imposes on him is not something technology could reverse or even recognize but, in the end, was cured by Nen. A certain Nen beast has the horrifying ability to fly in the air without wings and keep someone alive whilst consuming their brains.

Of course you could say that it's technologically possible - it just hasn't been discovered/invented yet. But in that case, you are effectively saying that anything is technologically possible. If so, Nen should be the same.

The Rose isn't even the be-all-end-all of explosions anyway. It's a miniature nuke that fit in Netero's chest. Pufu waded into ground zero whilst it was still ablaze and was absolutely fine with the heat.

In fact, if anyone can do either of those power they'd already be pretty much undefeatable in the world of HXH. So if you assume Meryem is already poisoned it's pointless to assume another special power could weaken him because he's already weakened by a power that's far beyond the limit of Aura (there's no possible way you can create Rose poison with Aura).

It could be something as simple as "immobilze the target" after fulfilling condition "xyz". Or put the target into a state of Zetsu if you sacrifice a hundred baby infants. Could be anything, really. There's no limit to what Nen could do and what it personally means (which affects how strong it is) to a person.

Your specialist guy would pretty much all just die before they even see Meryem since he's just that fast. You woudln't have time to charge up anything, because Meryem would kill you before you're done charging up any attack. Even if you had an ability like Cheetu's, Meryem would immediately catch up to Cheetu in this case and then break out of the artifical dimension, so even artifical dimension can't stop him.

Or you could be like the Chameleon guy. His ability isn't all that inconceivable. Not sure if you're invisible to En but the King isn't going to be firing off En every second. I personally think his speed is over-rated. Those manga panels don't give a real perspective on the amount of time that transpires between them.

 

[Phantron]

There's nothing in HXH that simply outright violates what can be achieved by humans so it'd stand to reason that Phinx's got an upper limit to his fist. It's not like he can rev up 1000 times and then blow up the world or whatever.

Meleoron is actually a great example of how special abilities are useless against Meryem. It specifically said that the moment Meryem's En touched Meleoron, Meleoron didn't even have the time to think "I got to use my ability" before Meryem knocked him out. Mereym's speed is much faster than the speed of thought so he'll just instantly KO anyone his En touched if he's out to kill, and it doesn't matter what ability you have because you can't even activate it on time. I guess you could have an ability like 'activates when I die' but honestly, who is going to specialize in that kind of stuff?

Aura is not all powerful. You can't have unconditional abilities like 'uncondtionally immobilize' to begin with, the same reason why there isn't an 'unconditionally unbreakable' ability. At most you can do 'immobilize even people with XYZ strength" but since Meryem's physical stat far exceeds the limit of humans, he's likely to simple overcome whatever that may be viewed as impossible with human physical power.

 

[mousiehamster]

There's nothing in HXH that simply outright violates what can be achieved by humans so it'd stand to reason that Phinx's got an upper limit to his fist. It's not like he can rev up 1000 times and then blow up the world or whatever.

What do you mean when you say "achieved by humans"? It's apples and oranges because the mechanisms behind Nen and say, technology are completely different. Furthermore, why are "humans" the benchmark?

Why can't Sphinx blow up the world? Sure it would be absurd and it would make sense for there to be some limit but a nuclear bomb can wipe out a continent. Kite

Spoiler

transferred his soul to another body

.

Meleoron is actually a great example of how special abilities are useless against Meryem. It specifically said that the moment Meryem's En touched Meleoron, Meleoron didn't even have the time to think "I got to use my ability" before Meryem knocked him out. Mereym's speed is much faster than the speed of thought so he'll just instantly KO anyone his En touched if he's out to kill, and it doesn't matter what ability you have because you can't even activate it on time. I guess you could have an ability like 'activates when I die' but honestly, who is going to specialize in that kind of stuff?

We're talking about scores of Hunters here, on the attack and defense, fully cognizant of Meryem's strengths and weaknesses.

Aura is not all powerful. You can't have unconditional abilities like 'uncondtionally immobilize' to begin with, the same reason why there isn't an 'unconditionally unbreakable' ability. At most you can do 'immobilize even people with XYZ strength" but since Meryem's physical stat far exceeds the limit of humans, he's likely to simple overcome whatever that may be viewed as impossible with human physical power.

Again, why is human power the benchmark? There's no theoretical limit to human power anyway, so i'm confused by what you mean. Note also that even in his enlightened form Meryem still got pwned by Komugi at. Meryem himself admits that on his way to the palace he ate a child who had the potential to be greater than him in a certain field. Why assume Meryem is the be-all-and-end-all? I'm not trying to sell him short here - no doubt he'd take down quite a few Hunters by himself - but when Hunters with their myriad of quirky, tricky, highly specialized abilities work together to form a cooperative i suspect the sum is far greater than the whole.