Discussion Monster Trio

deprince69

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i am wondering what other people think about the luffy, zoro, and sanji when it comes to strength... because i been arguing with some friends lately and they say that zoro is much more stornger than sanji... i disagree on that because zoro might be better swordsman than sanji but when it comes to stamina, attack, speed and defense i would say that they are all equal. and i am wondering what others think about this.
 

HereNThere

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I've always believed that they are and always will be equal. Zoro just has more badass moments than the rest of the crew. I love Zoro, but there are times when I feel like people overate him to much.
 

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Personally, I think Zori is to Sanji like Kaku is to Jyabura. At least that's the scale I've always used (in proportion of whose stronger) because CP9 actually introduced the scale to rate those kinds of things back then. Even as they advance and grow I think their proportional strength will always be the same. Even there, Jyabura and Kaku had a competitive type rivalry going because their actual power ratings were close together.

There has also been a trend to compare Luffy's crew to Gol D. Roger's crew; and I've always seen Zori in the strawhat crew the same way Rayleigh was in the roger pirates. For one, when they showed in the flashback how Roger invited Rayleigh to join him (probably the 1st crewmate he recruited) it reminded me directly how Zori was the 1st crewmate Luffy recruited. Also, I think Lord Rayleigh (the guy on this forum, not the One Piece character :)) have a theory about how Rayleigh was the greatest swordsman of his time being Roger's 1st mate (when Mihawk was still young) and would be the same as Zori being the greatest swordsman as Luffy's right hand man.

Though I'm no expert in these kinds of details, I believe it was also said in some SBS or something that the strawhats will run in to the 3rd in line in the roger pirates later on in the story. I'm sure this will also be used as a way to compare the Roger Pirates to the Strawhats. Who knows that guy might turn out to be more like Sanji (maybe it was also the cook?).

Anyways most of this who's stronger business is subjective and speculative and I'm sure different people will come up with all kinds of evidence for why one is stronger than the other or why theyre perfectly equal in one way or another (or in general). But for the sake of having the strawhat crew's setup and growth be meaningfully comparable to the roger pirates (one pirate king to the next) I like to think that Zori is stronger.
 

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Yeah there's just no possible way I could ever agree Sanji is anywhere near as powerful as Zoro. Zoro has trained to be the best swordsman in the world from birth. Sanji on the other hand wants to be a great cook and just does fighting on the side. Don't get me wrong, I believe Sanji is in a whole other league above all the rest of the Straw Hats, but honestly he's no where near Luffy's or Zoro's level.

I believe if Sanji focused more on fighting, training, bothered using his hands, and stopped smoking then he could definitely be a force to be reckoned with. They're rivalry is more akin to Gimli and Legolas from Lord of the Rings. Yeah I'm saying Sanji is Gimli. Congrats he's part of the monster trio, but he ain't no Legolas. The rivalry is simply there to keep the manga interesting.

Although I know this thread is titled for the monster tio, it's obvious that it's more related to Sanji. I'm not gonna lie, I like Zoro more and I'm sure that's apparent to all of the readers. That being said I really like Sanji too, but he has his place in the manga. Is he the funniest Straw Hat? I think so. Is he the most clever? Well I think he gives Robin a good run for her money. Does he have a really likeable personality? Fuck yeah he does, the manga wouldn't be the same without him or his alter ego Mr. Prince was one of the best moments. Is his strength comparable to Zoro's.....in my opinion, no.
 

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Well, I always believed that the hierarchy between them is clearly stablished. Luffy is the strongest, zoro follows and sanji is the weakest. Now, I do believe that the actual difference between them is at any given point marginal at best. Basically luffy is marginally stronger than zoro and zoro is marginally stronger than sanji. If any 2 of them were going to fight the battle itself would be long and drawn out with both of them ending exhausted. If I were to put it in numbers it would be like this:

Luffy would win against zoro 55 out of 100 times.
Zoro would win against sanji 55 out of 100 times.
 

deprince69

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Well, I always believed that the hierarchy between them is clearly stablished. Luffy is the strongest, zoro follows and sanji is the weakest. Now, I do believe that the actual difference between them is at any given point marginal at best. Basically luffy is marginally stronger than zoro and zoro is marginally stronger than sanji. If any 2 of them were going to fight the battle itself would be long and drawn out with both of them ending exhausted. If I were to put it in numbers it would be like this:

Luffy would win against zoro 55 out of 100 times.
Zoro would win against sanji 55 out of 100 times.
i totally agree with you but there is one thing also to mention that the reason luffy and zoro would have advantage over sanji would be due to the fact that luffy has a devil fruit, and zoro is a swordsman
 

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Well, the extent to which luffy would have an advantage due to a fruit is limited. Sanji is a haki user, he would be able to hurt luffy rather normally. More so, sanji has also learned how to use fire somehow. I don't think he would be at such an overwhelming disadvantage against other ability users by now. Same thing can be said against zoro.
 

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Fantasy fights are not allowed in the Tree of Knowledge forum. Please start a thread in Davey Back Fight to discuss who would win a fight between Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji. This forum is for canon character discussion only. In One Piece canon a power hierarchy has clearly been established while an actual decisive fight between the three is completely inconceivable.
 
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chess4

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luffy


zoro
sanji

this is how it will always be. the enemies they fought at ennies lobby was the same. the 2 guys zoro and sanji fought were almost identical in strength and lucci was almost double. Everyone wants to say zoro is close to luffy in strength, when that just aint facts.
 

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To me their all close to equal, even though Luffy is the captain, They all fight the highest enemy, Luffy beats the number one, Zoro beats the number two and Sanji three. It doesn't make anything difference, Luffy Zoro and Sanji will never get in a fight to the point it shows who stronger and weaker. But if we go by how Oda rank their strength it's: Luffy, Zoro and then Sanji. So really judging one over another is useless, unless you seen "All" of there powers after 2 years.
 

Mr. Arashi

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Considering that Luffy will be Pirate King and Zoro the best Swordman in the world. They are close each other. Mihawk and Shanks were always match a tie, so the Swordman is in Yonko level. Surpassing that title, it will means that are close to the power of a pirate king.

In other words, Luffy's just a little above Zoro. Sanji is beneath Franky so doesn't matter.
 

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Considering that Luffy will be Pirate King and Zoro the best Swordman in the world. They are close each other. Mihawk and Shanks were always match a tie, so the Swordman is in Yonko level. Surpassing that title, it will means that are close to the power of a pirate king.

In other words, Luffy's just a little above Zoro. Sanji is beneath Franky so doesn't matter.
I was agreeing with everything you said intel you said Sanji is beneath Franky, which is not. Oda already stated that Sanji, Luffy and Zoro are the monster trio, meaning that their the 3 strongest. In truth everybody has their own strength and weaknesses, so if we make another group in the crew it would be: Franky, Brook and Chopper, all of them has a lot of strength. But as for Luffy, Zoro and Sanji they are the strongest in there art.
 

Mr. Arashi

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I was agreeing with everything you said intel you said Sanji is beneath Franky, which is not. Oda already stated that Sanji, Luffy and Zoro are the monster trio, meaning that their the 3 strongest. In truth everybody has their own strength and weaknesses, so if we make another group in the crew it would be: Franky, Brook and Chopper, all of them has a lot of strength. But as for Luffy, Zoro and Sanji they are the strongest in there art.
Strange. I've never see Oda talking about trio except here

But if you're basing your stats by CP9's Douriki Level, then i have to argue that. Franky fought Fukurou without spend to much cola and therefore stamina. Instead of Sanji who fight in full capacity with Jabura till he had to use Diable Jamble at the end. Jabura and Fukurou were apart just for the Inu Inu no Mi in strength.

Actually, Sanji's Hell Memories are his strongest attack. Burning entirely the opponent... and just that. Franky can pierce everything with Radical Beam, and i'm sure it has more under the sleeve... just by looking his body.
 

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this thread doesnt matter luffy is the strongest and zoro and sanji are weaker than him. they will never fight each other seriously so its a moot point.....
 

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Zoro and Sanji are most likely equal, but Luffy stands above them, in my opinion. Luffy's rubber body is probably why, but he's still stronger than Sanji and Zoro.

though, I'm assuming Zoro and Sanji are near the same level mostly because of Davy Back fight when they fought together. Of course, either way, I still think Zoro's somewhat better than Sanji.
 

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But if you're basing your stats by CP9's Douriki Level, then i have to argue that. Franky fought Fukurou without spend to much cola and therefore stamina. Instead of Sanji who fight in full capacity with Jabura till he had to use Diable Jamble at the end. Jabura and Fukurou were apart just for the Inu Inu no Mi in strength.

Actually, Sanji's Hell Memories are his strongest attack. Burning entirely the opponent... and just that. Franky can pierce everything with Radical Beam, and i'm sure it has more under the sleeve... just by looking his body.
Umm, what? Zoro also had a hard time Kaku before he used Asura and Luffy damn near died in his battle. Does that make Franky stronger than them as well? Franky had an easy foe, while the other two fought opponents who were more than 2 times Fukuro's strength. Yes Franky fought Fukurou without much cola, however he still couldn't beat him until he got the cola. Sanji had already fought and got beat by Kalifa whom he wouldn't hit, so Sanji already went into his fight with Jabura partially injured, though probably not to a high extent. As for Jabura and Fukurou, we don't know how much Jabura's devil fruit counted towards his total Douriki, but it doesn't matter becuase Jabura was still a hell of a lot stronger than Fukurou.

We don't know what Sanji's strongest attack is so you can't use that as a measure of strength, we've barely seen any of the Strawhats fight after the time skip. I could easily say the same about Franky and his Radical Beam. And again going by the logic that Franky is stronger because his beam pierces everything, he is stronger than Luffy right? Luffy probably couldn't have escaped the PH cell. We don't know how many techniques Sanji has up his own sleeve, along with the rest of the crew.

Oda never directly calls them the "Monster Trio", but they fight the three strongest arc antagonist and they are recognized by the crew themselves as the strongest. Add that to the fact that the three seem to be the only haki users in the crew.
 

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I really hope one day Luffy, Sanji and Zoro will all become as strong as the admirals. For me the BB team is boring as hell. I like dynamic battles, where the speed and power are shown at the same time. Kizaru is so much suited to fight Sanji, Akainu is for Luffy ofc and I guess the new admiral will greatly fit Zoro's abilities.
 

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Umm, what? Zoro also had a hard time Kaku before he used Asura and Luffy damn near died in his battle. Does that make Franky stronger than them as well? Franky had an easy foe, while the other two fought opponents who were more than 2 times Fukuro's strength. Yes Franky fought Fukurou without much cola, however he still couldn't beat him until he got the cola. Sanji had already fought and got beat by Kalifa whom he wouldn't hit, so Sanji already went into his fight with Jabura partially injured, though probably not to a high extent. As for Jabura and Fukurou, we don't know how much Jabura's devil fruit counted towards his total Douriki, but it doesn't matter becuase Jabura was still a hell of a lot stronger than Fukurou.

We don't know what Sanji's strongest attack is so you can't use that as a measure of strength, we've barely seen any of the Strawhats fight after the time skip. I could easily say the same about Franky and his Radical Beam. And again going by the logic that Franky is stronger because his beam pierces everything, he is stronger than Luffy right? Luffy probably couldn't have escaped the PH cell. We don't know how many techniques Sanji has up his own sleeve, along with the rest of the crew.

Oda never directly calls them the "Monster Trio", but they fight the three strongest arc antagonist and they are recognized by the crew themselves as the strongest. Add that to the fact that the three seem to be the only haki users in the crew.
Sharp arguments, i like it.
I agreed with many things: Other abilities of the crew, Sanji fight previously with Califa and Zoro had to protect Usopp, injuring themselves. But there's the unique stats of both enemies here. Jabura has the mobile Tekkai, so it means that Sanji had to increase his critical kicks to defeat him. Other hand, Kaku had the agility of a Rankyaku master plus the harder Tekkai rised by the Ushi Ushi no Mi. Hence the resistance of the four was the big deal. Even Luffy had a bad time fighting with Franky because its versatility.
Thinking toughtness is the great wall to the Monster Trio, then exists a number of enemies who they can't crush.

Luffy and Zoro overcome more than Sanji. Gigant Rifle and Shishi Sonson are techniques made to break through steel. They're out of discussion because the other ones can't.

Sanji's Haki really is an advance of the power, but which haki he has? Kenbunshoku should it be, if he can sense Nami screams.

Right now, as i said. Franky could fight even with Hodi Jones, just as Sanji. They are so close indeed. But i'm still thinking that Franky has more tricks to fight with a big spectrum of foes, until Sanji can do Busoshoku obviously.
 

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Sharp arguments, i like it.
I agreed with many things: Other abilities of the crew, Sanji fight previously with Califa and Zoro had to protect Usopp, injuring themselves. But there's the unique stats of both enemies here. Jabura has the mobile Tekkai, so it means that Sanji had to increase his critical kicks to defeat him. Other hand, Kaku had the agility of a Rankyaku master plus the harder Tekkai rised by the Ushi Ushi no Mi. Hence the resistance of the four was the big deal. Even Luffy had a bad time fighting with Franky because its versatility.
You're right about Sanji having to increase his critical strikes against Jabura while he was using his Mobile Tekkai, but for a majority of the fight before Jabura started using his kenpo, he was getting trounced by Sanji while using regular tekkai. I really don't think Kaku's fruit gave him any extra tekkai strength. Nothing like that was never mentioned to my knowledge. We'll get to Franky's versatility later.

Luffy and Zoro overcome more than Sanji. Gigant Rifle and Shishi Sonson are techniques made to break through steel. They're out of discussion because the other ones can't.
Sure I'll give you that Luffy and Zoro are shown to overcome more than Sanji. Shishi Sonson is the only technique in the crew (aside from Radical Beam) that truly pierces steel and the like. Luffy's attacks, like Sanji's are blunt, so they are mostly going to bend, crush, and dent steel and other metals, as shown when Luffy punches a pacifista and Sanji kicked a pacifista at the beginning of the timeskip. Speaking of which, pacifistas are harder than steel. Pre-timeskip Shishi Sonson barely did anything against that type of metal and it was well known by then that Shishi Sonson could cut through steel. So Sanji can indeed crush steel now.

Sanji's Haki really is an advance of the power, but which haki he has? Kenbunshoku should it be, if he can sense Nami screams.
He has Kenbunshoku Haki and Busoshoku Haki. I'm pretty sure Law was specifically referencing hitting logia types and not just haki in general.

Right now, as i said. Franky could fight even with Hodi Jones, just as Sanji. They are so close indeed. But i'm still thinking that Franky has more tricks to fight with a big spectrum of foes, until Sanji can do Busoshoku obviously.
Franky has a wide variety of tricks because he is a cyborg that has a bunch multipurpose tools and weapons. He doesn't have to focus his fighting style around a certain aspect like a devil fruit, swords, or a martial art.
 
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On the matter of the fight against hodi.... I maintain that hodi as a whole was plainly not a threat to the strawhats. For a water fight luffy was actually the worst choice to fight hodi. In itself water weakened luffy and on top of that zoro and sanji would have actually been able to swim underwater if the bubble popped (assuming the pressure didn't kill them). Even then, I see not particular reason for either of them to have been unable to fight from inside the bubble. Luffy did quite a bit and it did not pop after all. Honestly, among the 3 the one that would have the easiest fight against underwater hodi would be sanji. He has a special technique to move under it after all, I doubt even hodi would have been able to keep up speed wise with sanji. Considering hodi was built as a tank (description by luffy) it would make more sense for zoro to be the one to deal damage more easily. A punch by luffy or a kick by sanji can be tanked, a slash would plain mutilate him. To be honest I doubt hodi would have been an enemy against the other strawhats for that matter. As for the others it would have been only franky who could have a chance considering he should be made of pretty sturdy stuff and there is no way hodi can just tank through radical beam. Then there is the consideration that franky could have considered an underwater fight to be a possibility in his long impending ocean trip and incorporated some stuff. None of the others would have a chance underwater though. Still, in a land fight at least brook should be able to win the fight. Speed, freezing and swordsmanship would IMO do the trick. Chopper would lose IMO considering that even his monster form was taken out by one of luffy's gear 3 armored punches but considering his many forms and that he is an analytical fighter when he wants to he could at least put up a fight. Not sure if ussop has anything damaging enough to affect transformed hodi though, I doubt it considering the sheer amount of damage the guy was able to take. Nami and robin should actually be out though. Anyways, hodi is plain weak, I don't see how he could have a chance in a land fight against the monster trio or even franky or brook.
 
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