Theory Moria in Wano thread

[hokageji]

Now that Wano has already taken place, its time for me to jott down a theory i've had for a long time....


Here's what we know about Moria:
1. Moria wants to be the pirate King
2. He was one of the select few Oda focussed in a flashback to Roger's execution.
3. He loved his crew
4. He aims to take down Kaido...

Now before people talk about how Moria is weak, lets bring up some points which can be considered invalid....
All we've seen about Moria is pre-haki time... Yes, there was a part of the wartime when haki was briefly introduced, but it was to a limited scale... So i wouldnt argue that Moria does or doesnt know Haki...
I am gonna agree that Luffy's loss was quite a big deal... but he easily helped take down Oars Jr... He created an arrow of his shadow which pierced through Oar's jr... That shows about how effectively he uses his DF, which is quite something...


Now regarding his DF, my theory is that the entire construction of his crew was aping Big Mama's crew. I am guessing when Moria lost half his crew to Kaido, Big Mama was considered atleast equal to Kaido, or superior to him. The similarities between the two's are endless...
Big Mama vs Moria
Soul fruit vs Shadow fruit
endless army of homies vs army of zombies..
4 sweet commanders vs mysterious 4....

The only problem is in strength, the mysterious s were hella weak, there isnt any chance they could stand up in comparison..
However, considering that Luffy could gain skills from a forcedin shadow, the strength of some of his commanders could be boosted as well..

About Moria's death escape, there are clearly two possibilites:
1. Absolem used his ability:
2. Moria used his DF ability to escape through a shadow...

Absolem would've been noticed by someone like Doflamingo quite easily. So i bank upon Moria using some special skill of his DF to escape....

What we know of his crew:
Perona is looking for Moria... Absolem is the journalist Absa... Moria has been seen around the new world...
Regarding Hogback, i have written another thread on how Weevil is likely to be a Hogback creation and how his strength is a result of either having whitebeard's body, or some of WB's allied or team member's shadows.

How do we think Moria will feature in this arc:
Moria escaped with an inch of his life and came to the conclusion that he cannot even trust his shichibukai title to serve protection. At the same time, he didnt have the strength to take on Kaido, for which he'd need a special plan, a plan which will serve only in the form of hiding...

Moria is using Absolem / Absa to gather intel across the world... who is managing to do this under the freelance journalist title... Once that happens, Moria is able to extract shadows and strengthen Weevil..

Moria will likely enter Wano, steal shadows of enemies who are taken down by either Kaido's allied army, of the people Luffy and co. defeat to strengthen himself further..
Even if Weevil isnt associated, there is plenty Moria can do with the shadows...

One scenario specially i can think of is Moria taking down Kaido's shadow. WIth that gone and inserted in say Luffy for instance, Kaido will be a bit easier to go down.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Of course he is in Wano.

We need a real "shadow warrior" in one piece-japan.

Anyway when he comes back he better be ripped again since he should have realized that a strong crew isnt enough.

 

[keeper1h]

Moria is the only way to animate Dr. Hogback's creations, so the mad doctor will never betray our favourite shallot-bat.

Since I doubt that Doffy has a strong observation haki, Moria escaped thanks to a combination of shadow substitution and Absalom's invisibilty.
Then, Hogback cured him.

Moria is up to no good, that's sure, and I hope to see him in Wano!

 

[hokageji]

Of course he is in Wano. We need a real "shadow warrior" in one piece-japan.
Anyway when he comes back he better be ripped again since he should have realized that a strong crew isnt enough.

That makes it twice now that he hasn't realized, once against Kaido and the others after the zombie thing.

Moria is the only way to animate Dr. Hogback's creations, so the mad doctor will never betray our favourite shallot-bat.

Since I doubt that Doffy has a strong observation haki, Moria escaped thanks to a combination of shadow substitution and Absalom's invisibilty.
Then, Hogback cured him.

Moria is up to no good, that's sure, and I hope to see him in Wano!

You could say Absolem was a hogback creation, or an upgrade atleast. I highly doubt Absolem had shadows imbued in him....

Doffy surely has great observation haki, he may not have futuresight like Katakuri but we should've detected Absolem… Unless of course absolem's df allows him to mask Haki too.

 

[keeper1h]

Doflamingo never caught the hidden Tontattas.
And he didn't sense that there were powerful guys as Luffy and Kyros, hidden under a window, just a few footsteps from him.
He was only being cautious by using a string clone, because it was obvious that someone was about to attack him, but he never know that they were right under his nose.

And he didn't noticed that Law switched himself with another guy, or even a corpse.
And he wasn't able to track Luffy at all, when he was unable to fight him for those infamous 10 minutes.

When Caribou attacked Shirahoshi, Luffy and Zoro sensed the event and tracked the guy instantly, and they were far away from Shirahoshi's room.

So, no.
Doffy is not good with Observation Haki.

Absalom has no shadow powers, but Moria can do that to escape in a nearby location, and Absalom then can extend his invisibility to both of them, securing their escape.

 

[hokageji]

@keeper1h
OK, those are some good arguments... plot plot no mi can always be a reason, but i somewhat agree to this point.

 

[keeper1h]

@hokageji
This is one of the few mistakes made by oda: Sometimes he won't state something, leaving his readers to guess something that for him is obvious, but for all the others... well.
Until you made me think about it, for me it was obvious that Doffy was also an haki monster, but his nearly total lack of empathy seems to have rendered him... blind towards others.
(He's a total psychopath, so he won't blame his underlings, but that's only because he consider them as his tools, and it's childlish to blame an hammer about something.)

 

[hokageji]

I think Oda has been blurry so far on the haki explanation. The other thing is Oda wont detail things because he means to explain it later...
like Garp pinching Luffy hurt him or sentomaru punching Luffy...

Anyways the point stays, even by not noticing tontattas or something, presence of another person right in front should've been detected, his observation is not that weak.
So most likely it was Moria escaping on his own more likely than Absolem's rescue...

 

[afromarco005]

Now that Wano has already taken place, its time for me to jott down a theory i've had for a long time....


Here's what we know about Moria:
1. Moria wants to be the pirate King
2. He was one of the select few Oda focussed in a flashback to Roger's execution.
3. He loved his crew
4. He aims to take down Kaido...

Now before people talk about how Moria is weak, lets bring up some points which can be considered invalid....
All we've seen about Moria is pre-haki time... Yes, there was a part of the wartime when haki was briefly introduced, but it was to a limited scale... So i wouldnt argue that Moria does or doesnt know Haki...
I am gonna agree that Luffy's loss was quite a big deal... but he easily helped take down Oars Jr... He created an arrow of his shadow which pierced through Oar's jr... That shows about how effectively he uses his DF, which is quite something...


Now regarding his DF, my theory is that the entire construction of his crew was aping Big Mama's crew. I am guessing when Moria lost half his crew to Kaido, Big Mama was considered atleast equal to Kaido, or superior to him. The similarities between the two's are endless...
Big Mama vs Moria
Soul fruit vs Shadow fruit
endless army of homies vs army of zombies..
4 sweet commanders vs mysterious 4....

The only problem is in strength, the mysterious s were hella weak, there isnt any chance they could stand up in comparison..
However, considering that Luffy could gain skills from a forcedin shadow, the strength of some of his commanders could be boosted as well..

About Moria's death escape, there are clearly two possibilites:
1. Absolem used his ability:
2. Moria used his DF ability to escape through a shadow...

Absolem would've been noticed by someone like Doflamingo quite easily. So i bank upon Moria using some special skill of his DF to escape....

What we know of his crew:
Perona is looking for Moria... Absolem is the journalist Absa... Moria has been seen around the new world...
Regarding Hogback, i have written another thread on how Weevil is likely to be a Hogback creation and how his strength is a result of either having whitebeard's body, or some of WB's allied or team member's shadows.

How do we think Moria will feature in this arc:
Moria escaped with an inch of his life and came to the conclusion that he cannot even trust his shichibukai title to serve protection. At the same time, he didnt have the strength to take on Kaido, for which he'd need a special plan, a plan which will serve only in the form of hiding...

Moria is using Absolem / Absa to gather intel across the world... who is managing to do this under the freelance journalist title... Once that happens, Moria is able to extract shadows and strengthen Weevil..

Moria will likely enter Wano, steal shadows of enemies who are taken down by either Kaido's allied army, of the people Luffy and co. defeat to strengthen himself further..
Even if Weevil isnt associated, there is plenty Moria can do with the shadows...

One scenario specially i can think of is Moria taking down Kaido's shadow. WIth that gone and inserted in say Luffy for instance, Kaido will be a bit easier to go down.

to be honest I dont want moria to have that much screentime during the arc unless he joins the straw hat alliance.

He is kinda irrelevant now, he did nothing noteworthy during the whitebeard war, got destroyed by jimbei, lost mid dif to luffy and was left for dead by DD if I remember correctly.
In the new world he wont do any better and I even think that even post skip sanji and Franky tier fighters can handle him with ease.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Well impaling Oars Jr. with his ability was not bad at all. Also with him, we can infuse Luffy/Zoro again with shadows for a real powerboost. Combine that with Hawkins Ability, which probably strenghtens people according to the card he drawed... it can really make a difference for overcoming Kaido in a battle.

post skip sanji and Franky tier fighters

 

[keeper1h]

post skip sanji and Franky tier fighters

*"Sanji is weaker than zoro" debate intensifies*

 

[King Moe]

*"Sanji is weaker than zoro" debate intensifies*

Ikr? Good thing we have people with sense with a mind on websites on Youtube, Reddit, Twitter, etc. to clear things on how strong Sanji is, but always bad apples with their logic "If he struggles with a character, he must be very weak" without taking the regard on how strong the opponent is compare to another's opponent.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 14, 2018 ---

to be honest I dont want moria to have that much screentime during the arc unless he joins the straw hat alliance.

He is kinda irrelevant now, he did nothing noteworthy during the whitebeard war, got destroyed by jimbei, lost mid dif to luffy and was left for dead by DD if I remember correctly.
In the new world he wont do any better and I even think that even post skip sanji and Franky tier fighters can handle him with ease.

He probably going to as Oda wouldn't just waste him like that as if he didn't have need for him, why did he left Moria lived a few times especially when Doflamingo and Pacifistas try to kill him, but still escape. That means Oda is planning on using him for this arc and allied with Luffy and the others which they will need all the help they can get especially with Big Mom and Kaido working together to fight them.

Also again, your thinking the wrong way. Just because we haven't seen much on the character, doesn't mean he be weakling or can't keep up. Look at Hawkins when confronted by Luffy and Zoro as everyone was thinking the mentality he will get crushed hard due to seeing his only combat against Kizaru, but who was a Admiral that no one can defeat against (Even Luffy and Zoro in pre-timeskip), but in the end, He was about to show more worth and action in the end and left Zoro with injuries which took a lot of people by surprise. If Hawkins can show how strong he got after 2 years, pretty sure Moria got stronger years later too as why would Oda don't kill him if he was truly done with his character? Pretty sure there will be use of him in Wano.

Wow, you really can't stop talking on Sanji and now Franky just because they haven't show much more. Sanji and Franky on different lvls especially Sanji still close to Luffy and Zoro as their top fighters. Oda is setting up on everyone getting major fights as this is to be domination category to a next lvl with Big Mom's and Kaido's unholy alliance in the end. Don't underestimate others just by past actions as Oda could surprise everyone in chapters you thinking that person will lose, but won't.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 14, 2018 ---

Well impaling Oars Jr. with his ability was not bad at all. Also with him, we can infuse Luffy/Zoro again with shadows for a real powerboost. Combine that with Hawkins Ability, which probably strenghtens people according to the card he drawed... it can really make a difference for overcoming Kaido in a battle.

Man, you also seem to have a hatred for Sanji and Franky too? Man got to learn to put aside feelings and think like Oda to understand his writing than thinking the worse on characters especially when those two are still hell of strong especially Sanji from what we seen in his clashes in anime/manga.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Oh no i like and enjoy franky. Just sayin that i like the thought that sanji is more a frankytier instead of a zorotier.

 

[King Moe]

Oh no i like and enjoy franky. Just sayin that i like the thought that sanji is more a frankytier instead of a zorotier.

Tell that to his bounty above Zoro to say he is Franky lvl. Pretty sure these two rivalry together enforce more Zoro and Sanji are equals in the end.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

U mean the bountyraise that skipped zoro, so Sanji is is on equal ground there? Even then Chopper vs. Usopp who is stronger?

 

[afromarco005]

I know moria will have a role in the upcoming arcs, I just am not that hyped about him is all.

On Frankys defense, he did blow up a Bulletproof steel door that sanji could not break with just one laser back in punk hasard...

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

I know moria will have a role in the upcoming arcs, I just am not that hyped about him is all.

On Frankys defense, he did blow up a Bulletproof steel door that sanji could break with just one laser back in punk hasard...

Yeah, and Zoro got injured by nails while Franky is able to tank bullets and cannon balls with not so much as a scratch...

Sanji isn't Franky level and neither is Zoro because one bad feat can't define a character. Sanji has been somewhat lackluster this time skip feat wise, but he's still clearly proven to be well above Franky.

 

[King Moe]

U mean the bountyraise that skipped zoro, so Sanji is is on equal ground there? Even then Chopper vs. Usopp who is stronger?

Bounty isn't always discard in what you can do though as some have shown their worth with their bounty and if Oda knew Sanji and Zoro weren't equal, why keep pushing it? He been pushing it since the beginning, so he does cherish and have them be equals and close to Luffy in strength.

As for Usopp vs Chopper....Well it can easily go either way as Usopp is not a 'weakling' he was before since he now has Observation Haki and we have yet to see all of his planets or stuff he got from training with Hercule-sama and the same with Chopper as he might have new forms too. So you it's not like pre-timeskip with their lvl as they both gotten stronger over the timeskip and we haven't seen them in full out fights with people on their lvl or give them a good fight just the same. You can't denied that.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 15, 2018 ---

I know moria will have a role in the upcoming arcs, I just am not that hyped about him is all.

On Frankys defense, he did blow up a Bulletproof steel door that sanji could break with just one laser back in punk hasard...

I see, but just saying don't think he is still the same weakling as you never know what Oda will do with his writing for him or how he been two years later. Just don't underestimate too much or dislike him when you see him as Oda is planning to push him more.

He did, but we still haven't seen much of his strength so it remain to be seen unlike Sanji who took on much tougher threats as his strength against Semi-Commnaders like Daifuku, Oven, and Perospero (Didn't confront him face to face, but he broke the candy that was holding the Vinsmokes with flames. Of a guy who is worth 700 million, that is kinda impressive for Sanji to be able to break harden candy with ease). Franky will probably have his moment to shine facing someone more tougher as well as Sanji, but I doubt their opponents will be same lvl since Oda is preparing Sanji to face someone much tougher from the looks of it.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2018 ---

Yeah, and Zoro got injured by nails while Franky is able to tank bullets and cannon balls with not so much as a scratch...

Sanji isn't Franky level and neither is Zoro because one bad feat can't define a character. Sanji has been somewhat lackluster this time skip feat wise, but he's still clearly proven to be well above Franky.

Well that because Franky has advantage since his robot body is able to tank bullets and other things while Zoro is still flesh and blood. Don't think that means Franky is tougher than Zoro, but it's their abilities and body dynamic is different out of it and also Zoro seem to be slower a bit in deflecting since he couldn't against nails despite he could on Hody shooting water bullets at him, but Hody isn't Hawkins's lvl, so I guess Zoro will be in more of a struggle this time around if he got injured by a Supernova. Just think if a Calamity or Shogun he will fight or higher up member this point on xD.

Well in defense, Sanji has situations that hold him back except the Doflamingo one as I accept that as a lost for Sanji, but others are pointing the Vergo case with broken bones, but pretend broken bones mean something when it doesn't as look at Usopp and Harjudan with their opponents. They got harder fracture than Sanji, but still won, so I don't get why others say he would have lost if it continue with Vergo. Yes he fight with his legs, but he still kept fighting with both legs and Vergo was the one to leave. He even ran with the same leg in the end too. Also not even going to count Vinsmokes encounters since you can see he held back and was blackmail on occasion not to strike them with more power. Oda is proving he is much tougher than he is, it's just that something is holding him back and more.

Sanji is still quite tough as he got his victories in New World too and Wano is prepping not just him, but others for their own individual fights for majority part since this will be a all out war with Kaido and Big Mom forces after them.

 

[Infinity Edge]

Isn't Moria dead? There literally was an episode where I remember Doflamingo chasing him down with pacifistas after marineford, and Doflamingo saying that he (Moria) is too weak to be warlord and he got orders to execute Moria...That to me, strongly implied that Moria was killed off by Doffy...

Perona also has also moved on and stays with Mihawk on his ship symbolizing that she is now under his wing because Moria is no more

 

[TitaniumOxide]

Infinity Edge you have to go reread that chapter. I'm pretty sure Doflamingo said Moriah somehow got away. It's why everyone here is speculating where the hell he is hiding right now and also why people think weevil is a hogback creation. No Moriah, no reason for hogback to reappear and if the theory is correct, certainly no reason to have weevil either (at least not his current stitched up character design).