Misc Attempt My first try at cleaning

[vildogvold]

Hi guys

just almost finished my first try at cleaning a manga page and would just like some inputs on what I could do better.

the raw page look like this

What I have got until now is this

hope to get some good comments

 

[[Cross]]

hm...was the raw page really that size when you worked on it?
Well one thing I can see is that the whites on your cleaned page should be completely white. The blacks seem fine, though if it were resized down, it would be hard to tell, the image should be bigger.

 

[ciMpul]

That seems to be a very very small raw page >_<
Seems to be good though on the blacks/whites. Determining they gray's on this was quite difficult however, if you can retouch the gray's then I recommend you do it.

 

[GGpX]

+ 5 points for not using any shitty filters to make the greys look like mud.

 

[vildogvold]

Thanks for the comments so far.
i did change the size to fit forum pages, im going out right now. but later on I will make links to the full sized ones.

 

[The Ama]

To fix the grays I would recommend that perhaps you brush the over the greys with a low opacity gray (enough to match the current results*, clone the on the grays, burn it, or replace it somehow. :\
Not really an expert so I'm sure others may know of other ways.

Edit: Filters could also work. (never exactly tried it myslef)

 

[vildogvold]

well here is the full size image.


But thx for the idea for the gray, im going to work on that now

 

[DrPepperPro]

It's too overleveld on the blacks. Level those less, and fix the messed up black areas with brush and/or burn tools.

 

[ciMpul]

You know it's over leveled when you can see some noise/grains on the blacks and sometimes on the white.

You have to manually burn the blacks (for speed scans) or you can go into more detail by filling it manually with black.

Also if your going for a MQ-HQ scan, the borders need to be filled with black about 1-2px to make it nice and solid. Also in the right side of the page, it seems to have bent lines on the 2nd box and a dirt speck.

 

[ddadain]

Overleveled.

@ciMpul

You never BURN stuff nor use MAGIC WAND [Contrary to its name, you don't just swish it to make your problems go away].

The ONLY way to go about doing a PROPER cleaning job is to MANUALLY fill in the blacks by using the LASSO TOOL or PEN TOOL.

Filtering messes up the greys so much, so don't even think of using them not unless your experienced enough to know what you're doing.

Fixing greys can be a problem. There's only really 2 options, leave them alone or replace them. That's it. That's that. Either you don't touch them and keep things uniform, or butcher them by using clone... I've yet to see a good cloned grey background...

Leveling should be done sparingly because it's the same as filtering. Too much and you ruin the lineart, too little and you're stuck with brownish blacks. But, LESS is MORE!

There are no MQ/HQ scans for Kekkaishi. All current releases are sLQ or LQ quality only since they base them from magazine scan raws. It's a waste of effort to make MQ or HQ Edited Mangas from a magazine scan when you'll just have to wait for about 3 months for the tankoubon to come out.

 

[DrPepperPro]

The only proper way is to print out the pages on good paper and re ink them yourself, obviously.

Really though, burn tool can work. You only dismiss it because so many people use it incorrectly.

 

[ddadain]

Burn tool is massacre PERIOD.

 

[wade69]

Burn tool works fine, you just have to know how to use it.

 

[fxu]

Burn tool is massacre PERIOD.

It's actually a very time-saving tool instead of having to brush every black patch. You never burn the edges, just the inside, otherwise too much burning will leave it aliased. Put it to Shadow and about 30%

Burn tool works fine, you just have to know how to use it.

What he said ^^^^

 

[ddadain]

Lols,

I'm sorry if I'm stubborn, but there's no proper way of using burn tool.

For one, if you burn the edges of lineart even just a little bit, it becomes sharp. The contrast becomes too striking.

Besides, with proper leveling, the need to burn is nullified.

Another thing is burn tool is what makes LQ releases sLQ. I don't know with you guys, but I'd much rather see grey dust rather than overleveled and/or overburned sh*t (Censored for the kiddies ).

Learning how to properly use the Lasso tool and the Pen tool EFFICIENTLY, unlike most people here who finds them kind of difficult to use, you can surely IMPROVE your overall Edited Manga skills and Edited Manga quality all at the same time. Using the shortcut (cough*massacre*cough) of the burn tool is NOT the way to go.

Well, IMO at least.

Although, I believe many HQ Manga Editors will agree with me.

---

Okay, example:

Here's a typical raw image and clean:

Spoiler: Raw

Spoiler: Clean

Now, case in point Kekkaishi has A LOT of greys. And unlike many Jump mangas, they aren't your typical uniform grey greys... Mostly, they are gradient greys that go softer or harder depending on the shadowing. Fact: that's the Yellow Tanabe's art style.

Another case in point is that many times, magic wanding the blacks will include some grey areas and if you burn them, you mess up all the shadowing effect they were suppose to give off = ruining the art itself.

One more case in point is that LEVELING PROPERLY is ENOUGH for you NOT TO NEED to use the Burn tool at all. You can clearly see from the blown up Raw that there are some greyish specks even in the blacks. FACT: NOT ALL SPECKS ARE DIRT! Sometimes leaving some can act as a good contrast between light areas and dark areas, acting as a buffer in order for the colors to blend together nicely as the cleaned raw shows.

I have to admit that the redraw could use some more touch ups (hehez, find the thing I'm talking about), but it's passable as a good example of the proper way of doing things.

1.) Leveling properly (not too much, not too little)
2.) Blending elements together (aesthetics... lightening up edges so that they don't contrast too much and end up sharp)
3.) Using LAYERS and BRUSH [hardness 100%] ALLOWS for more flexibility and maneuverability rather than using BURN TOOL
4.) Zzzz... want to nap...

Hope this helps...

 

[dosetsu]

lol at HQ Manga Editors and agreeing. Go figure things out on your own and stop co-signing to what another person said.

People who talk down on the burn tool are just that, people who co-sign to what other person has said, which are generally people who just picked up an art program to "scanlate" manga.

Learn the program you're working with, rather than follow tutorials. Trail and Error is pretty much a godlike process, it lets your form your own valid opinion on things rather than speak what other person has said.

For Mr.IHatetheBurnTool, "proper" levels this image for me.

 

[GGpX]

Learn the program you're working with, rather than follow tutorials. Trail and Error is pretty much a godlike process, it lets your form your own valid opinion on things rather than speak what other person has said.

Wrong ordering.

You read the tutorials to learn the basics of manga cleaning, then you explore different possibilities via trial & error.

 

[dosetsu]

More or less I meant to a T. But even so, if you spent time playing around with the tools and learned exactly what they do, what do you need a tutorial to tell you the same?

I'm speaking in general, not just manga (Which is were the majority of this fails).

As for the edit itself, it's fairly decent, consdering what you had to work with.

 

[ddadain]

GGpX is correct.

You don't just start learning how to edit manga on the bat. Even if you knew how to use Photoshop from the very start, it doesn't necessarily mean you automatically know how to edit mangas--editing them is quite different from editing normal things: more nit and grind required.

Reading tutorial from people who've already "done the research" is a better way of doing things as they've already tried and tested their techniques and have had firsthand experience on getting good (HQ) results. Well, this excludes speed-scans because no art is really involved in that (Lols, sorry if I'm blunt, but it's true: Speedscan => Speed >> Quality = Sh*t quality). Reading how HQ groups does things is the best way of honing your skills as a Manga Editor. Once having acquired the editing skills required to do HQ, doing LQ speedscans are a breeze to do.

I don't believe I've seen your work anywhere dosetsu, so either you show me any work that qualifies you to talk as big as you did, or don't comment on the validity of my statements.

And as for your page, there's an easy way of leveling it without hassle. Divide the page into two parts, removing the top non-blacked part from the blacked bottom half. Apply two different sets of leveling into them. This method is called MASKING. Unfortunately I don't have Photoshop installed in my laptop, but that is how I would have tackled that page. And, FYI, I've gone through the self-learning process--I've done the work, so to speak--therefore, assuming your logic is correct, my opinion becomes a valid one.

Besides, I know quite a number of people that would agree with me about the use of the Burn Tool. In fact, they'd probably say using the Burn Tool is Epic Fail. Don't think that I, having been a member of this forum for a very long time now and having released quite a number of Edited Mangas myself, doesn't have the credentials to talk as authoritatively as I did.

Zzz...

Spoiler

General statement: Noobs: they annoy me

---

And GGpX,

Honda cars aren't that bad -.-

 

[illiteracy]

The burn tool has its place in manga editing, although it's mostly limited to redraws. It's extremely helpful for blending colors to match gradients.