Shounen Naruto by Masashi Kishimoto

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Spoiler: this week's chapter spoiler

So if Sasuke still tries to kill them, then he's likely a douche since he knows the truth. At the least, the bijuu being friends with Naruto means that they're good... though I still wouldn't blame Sasuke for trying to kill the bijuu as collateral damage for getting rid of the Juubi. Unless it's possible to save the bijuu without the risk and he still opts to kill.

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Spoiler: this week's chapter spoiler

So if Sasuke still tries to kill them, then he's likely a douche since he knows the truth. At the least, the bijuu being friends with Naruto means that they're good... though I still wouldn't blame Sasuke for trying to kill the bijuu as collateral damage for getting rid of the Juubi. Unless it's possible to save the bijuu without the risk and he still opts to kill.

Spoiler

There you go, now he knows.

---------- Post added at 09:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 AM ----------

It seems that you guys don't care or fail to realize that Bijuus have conscience, feelings and attitude just like humans do. That's why killing them can't be justified if they don't pose threat as themselves. They can be used as weapons, but that's not their fault. That's the fault of humans because they have the intent of killing or making chaos with instruments they're presented with. And that instrument just happens to have a mind like a human does, which is kind enough to understand humans if they're treated the same.

Imagine if Bijuus were humans with the same power and same status in this manga. Would killing them be justified then in your pov?

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Spoiler

There you go, now he knows.

---------- Post added at 09:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 AM ----------

It seems that you guys don't care or fail to realize that Bijuus have conscience, feelings and attitude just like humans do. That's why killing them can't be justified if they don't pose threat as themselves. They can be used as weapons, but that's not their fault. That's the fault of humans because they have the intent of killing or making chaos with instruments they're presented with. And that instrument just happens to have a mind like a human does, which is kind enough to understand humans if they're treated the same.

Imagine if Bijuus were humans with the same power and same status in this manga. Would killing them be justified then in your pov?

I would think it justified, because why risk sacrificing countless of lives? Bijuu did have a choice to not attack or be volatile, but they chose to break free and go on a rampage... at least Hachibi did. It's like saying Sasuke should be pardoned for crashing the Summit and killing Danzou for revenge just because he was mindfucked by Tobi... he still had a choice, and he still chose to pursue revenge despite knowing what Itachi wanted.

I also think that Tsunade should have put Sasuke in Konoha's bingo book rather than let him be free just because Naruto wanted it. Even if she didn't know the truth, Sasuke was still a missing nin who joined the enemy that tried to destroy Konoha. Killing is sometimes necessary. I could go more into this, but I'm pretty sure majority of the people will get offended or be too close minded to even consider.

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

I would think it justified, because why risk sacrificing countless of lives? Bijuu did have a choice to not attack or be volatile, but they chose to break free and go on a rampage... at least Hachibi did. It's like saying Sasuke should be pardoned for crashing the Summit and killing Danzou for revenge just because he was mindfucked by Tobi... he still had a choice, and he still chose to pursue revenge despite knowing what Itachi wanted.

I also think that Tsunade should have put Sasuke in Konoha's bingo book rather than let him be free just because Naruto wanted it. Even if she didn't know the truth, Sasuke was still a missing nin who joined the enemy that tried to destroy Konoha. Killing is sometimes necessary. I could go more into this, but I'm pretty sure majority of the people will get offended or be too close minded to even consider.

And why killing them ruthlessly if the incident can be avoided by getting rid of hatred? They went on a rampage because they were used, because of the status a human dictated them to have - being a weapon, a tool used for wars.

Sasuke is a complicated case and Tsunade indulged Naruto because the whole thing was fishy and had a lot of holes that needed to be filled in order to find the truth. And if Sasuke really stays good, then Naruto and Tsunade made the right choice. Killing without a second thought is just the reason why hatred is spread. Without understanding each other, resorting to violence is the reason of war. That's what Naruto wants to erase. Even if throw out the question of morality, the story wouldn't add up much if Sasuke went into killing mode, specially because it's the end and the Shounen doesn't allow it.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

HOw can one get rid of hatred forever? I only see Naruto being able to get rid of hatred temporarily, but I doubt it'll be forever. Hell, hatred wouldn't even be the motivation - one could be motivated to get more power and dominate. Hatred isn't the only problem here, as long as the bijuu are alive people will covet more power. Whether in fiction or real life, there's always gonna be some selfish douche who want power.

But the bijuu still had a choice to run away or prove that they weren't evil. Did Kyuubi ever try to talk to Kushina or Mito while sealed in them? Hell, despite knowing Naruto it still tried to kill him on at least one count.


What holes? Sasuke wanted revenge against Itachi and was willing to let Orochimaru take over his body to get it. If Orochimaru did that, then he'd have gotten more power than Konoha could possibly deal with, or Sasuke would have been part of Orochimaru's army for all they knew. I don't think Sasuke would have even thought about hurting Konoha, but from Konoha's point of view it was dangerous to let him live.

The story would add up if Sasuke went into killing mode, though. If he turned into a bad guy and started murdering, Naruto would be there, overcoming his final hurdle to establish peace forever and ever.

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

HOw can one get rid of hatred forever? I only see Naruto being able to get rid of hatred temporarily, but I doubt it'll be forever. Hell, hatred wouldn't even be the motivation - one could be motivated to get more power and dominate. Hatred isn't the only problem here, as long as the bijuu are alive people will covet more power. Whether in fiction or real life, there's always gonna be some selfish douche who want power.

But the bijuu still had a choice to run away or prove that they weren't evil. Did Kyuubi ever try to talk to Kushina or Mito while sealed in them? Hell, despite knowing Naruto it still tried to kill him on at least one count.


What holes? Sasuke wanted revenge against Itachi and was willing to let Orochimaru take over his body to get it. If Orochimaru did that, then he'd have gotten more power than Konoha could possibly deal with, or Sasuke would have been part of Orochimaru's army for all they knew. I don't think Sasuke would have even thought about hurting Konoha, but from Konoha's point of view it was dangerous to let him live.

The story would add up if Sasuke went into killing mode, though. If he turned into a bad guy and started murdering, Naruto would be there, overcoming his final hurdle to establish peace forever and ever.

Isn't that the whole point of the manga, as well as the embodiment of Naruto's character? That all may be true, but the point is at least to preserve the world to at least the safe prosperity in which another Madara/Obito don't appear. If Sasuke stays the way he is now, the story succeeded to some degree. There will always be hatred, but the story wants to cope with it and survive it, not to be consumed by it.

No they didn't. How did they have choice if they were forced into human bodies? Why would he? They never talked to him except showing authority and using him. He was surprised that someone like Naruto actually wants to help him rather than use him or manipulate him.

Itachi was also a missing-nin. In Konoha's pov, that could've been two birds shot with one stone because they knew he was going to find Itachi. I think he became more dangerous in Konoha's pov for becoming Oro's student. But in the end Tsuande indulged Naruto because, well, it's Naruto. And like I said, if he stays the same, Tsunade will have made a good decision.

He would, but this seems like it's a done deal, specially now that the ultimate threat arrived.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

End of hatred and start of harmony forever and ever doesn't mean the world will be at peace though. Like I said, even if there have been decades of no hatred, there will be someone who will want power. They could start rounding up the bijuu and imprisoning them or control the bijuu to destroy stuff. I actually have confidence in Naruto, or Part I Naruto at the least, that he'll establish peace, believe it or not.

They could have ran away, they could have complied, or they could have broken out of the body far from the people that could have stopped them. Hachibi could have chosen to escape from his jinchuuriki's body on missions where there was no Raikage, then it could have ran away.

I'm talking about when Sasuke was unknown. Yeah, he'd have likely killed Itachi, but at what cost to Konoha? Seems either way, there was a huge risk in leaving Sasuke alone. Konoha for the most part lucked out with Sasuke.

 

[Dark blood]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Hey Guys, do bijuus regenerate ??? or just their chakra is what regenarate over he passage of time ?

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

I gotta say that a lot of comments in general on this forum are getting annoying. Too much irony, too much sarcasm, but despite that, people still read this shit. They should just have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Hey Guys, do bijuus regenerate ??? or just their chakra is what regenarate over he passage of time ?

Chakra, from what Minato and Kushina said.

I gotta say that a lot of comments in general on this forum are getting annoying. Too much irony, too much sarcasm, but despite that, people still read this shit. They should just have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up.

Now you know why I defend Sasuke and get annoyed with people who don't like Sasuke and with people who like Minato/Naruto. If you don't like the comments though, you don't have to read it. I don't see what's wrong with complaining about the chapter or in the appropriate thread, the manga.

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Now you know why I defend Sasuke and get annoyed with people who don't like Sasuke and with people who like Minato/Naruto. If you don't like the comments though, you don't have to read it. I don't see what's wrong with complaining about the chapter or in the appropriate thread, the manga.

I have no problem with complaining at all. I do, however, have problem with exaggeration. I have to strain my eyes to find posts with reasonable discussion within all the hating posts.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Eh, everyone exaggerates. I do for the most part dislike the direction the story's going, but as long as there's action I'm ignoring the quality for the most part. That and I want to see Naruto and Sasuke work together like they did in Part I, without even needing to talk to each other. Didn't Sasuke understand Naruto's plan completely when Naruto tossed him the demon windmill shuriken to throw against Zabuza? Or the confidence he had that Naruto would arrive to help during the Forest of Death portion of the exam?

Imagine the potential of real Naruto with Sasuke and Sakura... they could far surpass the Sannin, but right now Naruto only surpasses Jiraiya in power. :\ I think he's held back too much to fit the typical shounen stereotype.

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Everyone has their own wishes and predictions on how the story should progress but that's irrelevant. You may like the current story or you may not but that doesn't mean that you have to acknowledge the fact that you don't like it in every post, in every topic. Like I said in previous topic, even if you don't like it, that doesn't mean that you can't analyze and discuss the current story without negative emotions towards the author. When I get that you don't like it, okay, but if you can't contribute anything useful to the discussion at hand, don't post.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

that's a lot of complaining. D: But what can you do? We can't tell them to stop unless it really derails the thread or is off topic.

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

We can't. I just can't understand that state of mind. Anyway, I want Naruto in full RM. I hope Kurama gathered enough chakra already because Sasuke and Minato didn't see him in that state.

 

[Rikudou King]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

It seems that he asked him and got his answer in the current chapter.

Likely cause Naruto actually said something last chapter, despite it being after it was too late.

It seems that you guys don't care or fail to realize that Bijuus have conscience, feelings and attitude just like humans do. That's why killing them can't be justified if they don't pose threat as themselves. They can be used as weapons, but that's not their fault. That's the fault of humans because they have the intent of killing or making chaos with instruments they're presented with. And that instrument just happens to have a mind like a human does, which is kind enough to understand humans if they're treated the same.

Imagine if Bijuus were humans with the same power and same status in this manga. Would killing them be justified then in your pov?

There's a clear problem with your reasoning. We're talking about a society where it's standard teaching to protect one's village by any means, even if it means killing innocent people, and assassination is a legitimate job. Kisame was ordered to wipe out the entire squad he was assigned to in order to protect the village, and Itachi was forced to wipe out his entire clan for the safety of the village. The main house of the Hyuuga clan uses a seal on their branch members to control them, in addition to protecting their bloodline secrets. Heck, the entire concept of the Jinchuuriki is basically forcing innocent children to harbor dangerous weapons that would more then likely end up causing their deaths. If ninjas don't have a problem killing innocent humans for the greater good, why would there be a problem with them killing the Bijuus, who are much more dangerous?

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

We can't. I just can't understand that state of mind. Anyway, I want Naruto in full RM. I hope Kurama gathered enough chakra already because Sasuke and Minato didn't see him in that state.

Tobi and Madara will still own all, unless Tobi loses the Juubi.

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

There's a clear problem with your reasoning. We're talking about a society where it's standard teaching to protect one's village by any means, even if it means killing innocent people, and assassination is a legitimate job. Kisame was ordered to wipe out the entire squad he was assigned to in order to protect the village, and Itachi was forced to wipe out his entire clan for the safety of the village. The main house of the Hyuuga clan uses a seal on their branch members to control them, in addition to protecting their bloodline secrets. Heck, the entire concept of the Jinchuuriki is basically forcing innocent children to harbor dangerous weapons that would more then likely end up causing their deaths. If ninjas don't have a problem killing innocent humans for the greater good, why would there be a problem with them killing the Bijuus, who are much more dangerous?

My reasoning is perfect, just like Kishimoto's. Your reasoning is the continuation of hatred spreading through the society you just described. And clearly, that society has to change in order to stop mindless wars. That's the point of the manga actually, to erase the cold , emotionless perception towards your enemy and try to understand them before attacking them for your own gain. Instead of pursuing your own wishes through killing another, why not try and understand another and accomplish something even greater through mutual understanding? The main problem with the shinobi world.

 

[Rikudou King]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

My reasoning is perfect, just like Kishimoto's. Your reasoning is the continuation of hatred spreading through the society you just described. And clearly, that society has to change in order to stop mindless wars. That's the point of the manga actually, to erase the cold , emotionless perception towards your enemy and try to understand them before attacking them for your own gain. Instead of pursuing your own wishes through killing another, why not try and understand another and accomplish something even greater through mutual understanding? The main problem with the shinobi world.

Your reasoning relies upon the belief that every single person in the world will change and they will stay change long after generations have passed. You're ignoring that some people are just inherently bad, who won't change no matter what, and that generations from now the people aren't gonna have the lessons or belief of the current generation. There isn't any surefire means to ensure that the Bijuus will never be used as weapons again as long as they exist, especially since the knowledge of Jinchuuriki is so widespread. And we have rarely seen any cold and emotionless perceptions as being the reason ninjas do what they do, or mindless reasons for war.

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Your reasoning relies upon the belief that every single person in the world will change and they will stay change long after generations have passed. You're ignoring that some people are just inherently bad, who won't change no matter what, and that generations from now the people aren't gonna have the lessons or belief of the current generation. There isn't any surefire means to ensure that the Bijuus will never be used as weapons again as long as they exist, especially since the knowledge of Jinchuuriki is so widespread. And we have rarely seen any cold and emotionless perceptions as being the reason ninjas do what they do, or mindless reasons for war.

People aren't really born bad. They become bad because they're influenced by their surroundings. Madara wasn't always bad, Obito wasn't always bad, Nagato wasn't always bad, etc. They were all victims of war and were mentally weak to sustain the psychological impact of losing a loved one. Which is to say that it is a mindless act of losing a loved one to start a war on a world-wide scale. People don't have to change, they need to understand one another. Madara and Obito are special cases which is why the war on this scale started, but Nagato was back to his senses when he was listened to and vice versa.