Discussion Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

[mattiaildivino]

the latest chapters say everything:Op is too slow and has got a lot of things that makes the manga not perfect. of course Bleach is worse than them:Naruto is the best.

 

[ArtieBoy]

Villain wise Kisame Has nothing on Arlong.
Development Wise Kisame Has nothing on Arlong.

And yes Naruto will Appeal more to a Mature audience, But only art wise One Piece Talks about more mature subjects that Naruto wont go into.

the latest chapters say everything:Op is too slow and has got a lot of things that makes the manga not perfect. of course Bleach is worse than them:Naruto is the best.

Naruto is only good right now because its @ a really crucial point in the series.

just like how one piece was like 10x greater then bleach & naruto when it was the WB vs WG war

 

[ashher]

Actually naruto is not good at the moment. Its exciting. But its been better at other times, for example when naruto hyperventilated. I'm saying this totally seriously and waiting solemnly to be ridiculed.

 

[Newkerzy]

What counts for you as development?
Let me rephrase the question. Is the following for you development or not?

A young pirate, let's call him crocodile dreams to be the pirate king. He travels the sea and makes a name for himself. He encounters Whitebeard and get's completely crushed. After the loss of an arm and a scar in his face he understands that there are powers far beyond his level and decides to give up on his dream. He tries to take over a country and find a legendary weapon but this plan fails because he encounters our heroes and gets beaten again. After that he finds himself once again completely crushed and doesn't even want to try again and so he ends up in Impel down. Then he hears about the war and thinks this is a good chance to kill whitebeard, the one who destroyed his dream. Our Hero on the quest to rescue his brother crosses his way again and they decide to team up to escape the prison. At the war he tries to kill whitebeard but fails. A lot of stuff happens during the war what I don't want to mention. After the war he finds the resolution to try it again. BTW his story isn't over yet

So is this development or not? So it's not never is it?
Let me ask you another question. Have you noticed the cover stories?
Usually Villains get a cover story where a lot is explained about them and those from the coverstorys come usually back to the story.
Want to bet that I can write something like the story above for nearly every OP villain?
I will give you a list of characters that either got or will get their development later and this includes a circle development like the one from Wapol.
So out of the Head: Hellmeppo,Gin,Kuro,Jango,Fullmetal,Buggy(??might be discussion worthy),Hatchi,Arlong,whole Baroque works especially Mr3,2 and 0, CP9, Enel, Hancock,Moria and all the villains to come.
That's for me a lot more than Naruto even has.




First of all. One Problem that OP has is sometimes the pacing and I don't mean the chapter pacing (which is always filled with a lot of stuff) but the story pacing. You are right, in those two arcs the boss fights got longer than they actually needed to be. BUT yes they needed to be long because the Author tried to build tension. He ends his fights always with a bang and in both arcs, especially during the skypia arc you could feel the helplessness of the characters, the wish for peace which was symbolized by the bell. I don't remember anymore when an arc was properly built up in Naruto. Maybe the pain arc but I shouldn't even start about that arc. However I never felt anything, no emotions at all during the Danzo fight because of the lack of proper built up.

Second of all. I don't know what he means with "potential" but I mean potential. The potential of the Villains is WASTED. Which basically means the characters themselves are wasted? One example would be again Danzo. So much potential for storylines but none of them used.
Another example would be Kisame. Can you show me a page that is supposed to make me hate him? I mean he captured some tailed beast with whom I as a reader have no emotional connection with. What else has he done? Stolen Information? Fought Bee? Maybe I have forgotten something. Could have happened. I like Kisame as a character. Villains are supposed to be hated. You are supposed to celebrate the fist in their face, their death or defeat. For me Kisame is the perfect example of a villian who is there just to get beaten up.

1. Did we even see Croco's POV of his life?? (if we did, mind linking me??)

2. Covers aren't really enough for me. It's only told from a third-person view, not the character themselves. What Naruto outdoes OP in this regard is that you are able to see the character's POV with your own eyes. It's as if you're the character itself.

3. True, Kisame and some others weren't built up enough till the end. But do you SERIOUSLY want a huge-ass LONG explanation of their life?? this is Oda's weakness, he sometimes focuses on the build up of the characters too much that it sometimes derails the story for a bit. In Naruto, we usually get a brief flashback about their lives and yet Kishi masterfully plays them out so well that it defines their character in one fell swoop. (I might agree with you on Danzo, though)

4. As for the big fights in Naruto, it's just about the same with OP. First, the characters are stacked with the odds in the enemy's favour, but the characters get through it. Just that Kishi doesn't prolong it anymore than necessary. (Hidan-Kakuzu was kinda bad, though)

5. As for Kishi not having the guts to enter border-line mature stuff, I'm thinking it could be because Kishi's art style is so realistic that if anything border-line seinen was drawn, he could get a huge amount of backlash from parents in Japan. So I could understand that.

 

[Josl]

1. Did we even see Croco's POV of his life?? (if we did, mind linking me??)

2. Covers aren't really enough for me. It's only told from a third-person view, not the character themselves. What Naruto outdoes OP in this regard is that you are able to see the character's POV with your own eyes. It's as if you're the character itself.
.

1.No there isn’t. But your argument was not that there is no POV type of storytelling but that there is no development and that you can not feel the villains in OP.

Let’s go through the typical story telling of Oda.

First he presents a villain. He makes him you (as a reader) NOT like him. He makes you hate him through the things and evil deeds he has done to character you actually like. Then the villains get beat up.
Until here your argument is kind of legitimate but it looses all it’s truthfulness at the point the cover stories start. Once again on the example of crocodile:
First the Baroque Works tries to free them from the Prison but Crocodile doesn’t feel like it:
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-403/page001.html
After that event we learn about his dream:
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-408/page001.html
Then we learn why he didn’t break out:
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-540/page014.html
He tries to kill Whitebeard:
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-557/page012.html
We learn why:
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-563/page011.html
Thinks happen during the war and after the war we learn that he had a “scar” and that the scar is now healed:
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-593/page018.html

Your average intellect reader can understand what the author tries to tell them and his story doesn’t end here. So the reader can understand him (which basically means FEEL) and he got a lot of development.

Once again: Villains aren’t supposed to be liked. They are supposed to be HATED: So Oda presents his villains in that way and gives him development after they are defeated.
He uses all of his character to a maximum and usually doesn’t waste them in any way unlike other mangaka.

POV flashbacks are reserved for people who you shall understand/like/ sympathize with or for characters that are going to die to make their death more dramatic.
POV flashbacks got basically every Strawhat because your are supposed to like them and to understand them (FEEL them).
Then Flashbacks are used to make you understand conflicts and make you like the characters involved with them.
Then POV flashbacks are used to make a characters death more dramatic and make you fell them for you. In OP the death of Whitebeard would be a good example.

Kishi has the habit of getting rid (killing) character without ever using them to their full potential. Killing is good when you have used a character to the full potential or you are using it to progress the story in the best possible way but it is very bad when the character had so much potential for storylines or character development. An example of a good death in Naruto would be the death of Kaku and Zabuza (which got ruined for me after they got summoned)
Another would be the death of Jiraiya and a few more. For bad deaths or character wasting: Kisame. I didn’t feel sad because he died. I felt sad because he was wasted. Danzo and few more would fall in this category.

I’m terrible sorry that for you cover stories aren’t enough but for 95% of the people it is.

3. True, Kisame and some others weren't built up enough till the end. But do you SERIOUSLY want a huge-ass LONG explanation of their life?? this is Oda's weakness, he sometimes focuses on the build up of the characters too much that it sometimes derails the story for a bit. In Naruto, we usually get a brief flashback about their lives and yet Kishi masterfully plays them out so well that it defines their character in one fell swoop. (I might agree with you on Danzo, though)

4. As for the big fights in Naruto, it's just about the same with OP. First, the characters are stacked with the odds in the enemy's favour, but the characters get through it. Just that Kishi doesn't prolong it anymore than necessary. (Hidan-Kakuzu was kinda bad, though)
.

When I spoke about built up I meant the built up of conflicts, A lot of conflicts in the naruto verse aren’t built up/presented enough in a way that when they are resolved you(as a reader) feel satisfied. At least I often don’t feel that way and I’m pretty sure I’m not that alone with my point of view. When conflicts end in OP there is often a party afterwards. It brings the reader down and most readers are very satisfied with the way the conflict was presented and resolved.
I neither need nor want long explanation of their life. I want them used to their fullest potential and built up as villains.

5. As for Kishi not having the guts to enter border-line mature stuff, I'm thinking it could be because Kishi's art style is so realistic that if anything border-line seinen was drawn, he could get a huge amount of backlash from parents in Japan. So I could understand that.

Shonen Manga have certain limits of how brutal they can make it look this is true.

Once again back to the whole maturity discussion even tough I don’t feel like I should

Most people will agree that the first impression you got from OP is childish. The overall feel of Naruto speaks also for Naruto while the overall feel of OP 80% of the time is happy go.
I don’t think that here is any conflict.

The two things that decide (at least for me) if something is mature or not are the themes that are presented and the Drama. Both have them and both are appealing to older audience so who is more mature is not discussion worthy.

What might is discussion worthy is which of those both Manga is “deeper”. The criteria for that are for me pretty much the same as above but for me OP wins in that comparison. Because in those 20% it isn’t happy go it portrays a wider range of themes and presents the drama better.

 

[ameya730]

@josl
really good post. i did not notice this development of croc since i dont pay much attention to the cover stories. my respect for oda went up a notch.

but there is one thing that i have to nitpick on. namely that even though croc has been developed i no longer see him as a villain. i know this might be premature and oda might make him into a villain. right now there are only two people that i consider truly to be villain akainu and blackbeard.
out of which akainu is lawful neutral. his actions dont really feel evil. as far as blackbeard is concerned i dont consider him evil cause till now all he has done is attack pirates and killed marines. this is part of his job profile anyways - fight pirates and kill marines.

thats why for me atleast the villains in naruto seem better as compared to one piece. in naruto i hate them (madara kabuto), pity them (kisame kimimaru) despise the system for creating them (haku) but in one piece i have not felt such kind of emotions with respect to the villains. mind you it might not be the problem with one piece itself but rather my preconcieved notion that pirates are anyways bad people so why feel for them.

 

[benelori]

Villain wise Kisame Has nothing on Arlong.
Development Wise Kisame Has nothing on Arlong.

And yes Naruto will Appeal more to a Mature audience, But only art wise One Piece Talks about more mature subjects that Naruto wont go into.

I'm actually curious about these examples that you didn't give...it's not that you have to give them, but still...don't misunderstand me I'm not saying One Piece doesn't have these subjects...tbh the discrimination subject is one of the earlies and deepest stuff in OP...but I'm not sure about Naruto not going into these subjects as well...for example we have discrimination as well...actually it's one of the premises of the manga

---

@josl
really good post. i did not notice this development of croc since i dont pay much attention to the cover stories. my respect for oda went up a notch.

but there is one thing that i have to nitpick on. namely that even though croc has been developed i no longer see him as a villain. i know this might be premature and oda might make him into a villain. right now there are only two people that i consider truly to be villain akainu and blackbeard.
out of which akainu is lawful neutral. his actions dont really feel evil. as far as blackbeard is concerned i dont consider him evil cause till now all he has done is attack pirates and killed marines. this is part of his job profile anyways - fight pirates and kill marines.

thats why for me atleast the villains in naruto seem better as compared to one piece. in naruto i hate them (madara kabuto), pity them (kisame kimimaru) despise the system for creating them (haku) but in one piece i have not felt such kind of emotions with respect to the villains. mind you it might not be the problem with one piece itself but rather my preconcieved notion that pirates are anyways bad people so why feel for them.

I guess that's just a point of view...for example I did like Arlong, and The Celestial Dragons are impressive characters and when their secret will be revelead everybody will go nuts...or Magellan even if he was just an episodic villain...

By personal opinion is that in OP the villains are not so impressive, because the fine line between villains and goodies is very-very thin...even thinner than in Naruto

---

However I agree that the villains in Naruto have a more personal approach to them in their characterization than the ones in OP...except Arlong probably and that mad guy(forgot his name) the leader of CP

 

[Josl]

but there is one thing that i have to nitpick on. namely that even though croc has been developed i no longer see him as a villain. i know this might be premature and oda might make him into a villain. right now there are only two people that i consider truly to be villain akainu and blackbeard.

That's because Crocodile is no longer a villain. He is now a rival
In OP the villains are villains as long as they are not beat up.
You can’t tell me that you didn’t hate Arlong. Even if for some reason you didn’t hate him the author tried everything in his power to make him hated by the audience. This applies to the most main villains (Croc,Enel,Lucci) during the arcs. Only AFTER they are defeated they got development. I did already mention Croc so this time let’s go with Arlong.
Typical racist villain gets beat up.
Hundreds chapter later we learn that the sun tattoo that everyone had was a symbol of freedom and that he might have been a slave. Now you could already pity him but I bet that there will be a flashback of some characters and that we will get the confirmation that he was a slave. He just can’t return because that what he did is unredeemable unlike Crocodile.
Villains are portrayed as villains as long as they are villains. Another example would be Mr.2. First make the readers not like him by killing(beating) up a child and after that he becomes an ally. CP9 can also be pitted and Moria (all of his crew got killed by Kaido, got lazy and fat afterwards with a big scar) as well. After they got beat up they get development and become either allies or rivals but the hate is usually gone by that time. This is why OP villains are for me the better ones. As long as they are villains they are not liked and after that Oda makes us(readers) understand them and they become likeable.

 

[Newkerzy]

@josl:

You've brought up very good points. But I can't help but feel you're insulting my intelligence.

Your average intellect reader can understand what the author tries to tell them and his story doesn’t end here. So the reader can understand him (which basically means FEEL) and he got a lot of development.

Anyways, as for Kisame and a lot of the other villains, Yes, wasted build-up. I'll agree with you on that, but I do like how Kishi creates their flashbacks. For me, the fact that he usually plays it out well, makes up for the lack of development.

Once again: Villains aren’t supposed to be liked. They are supposed to be HATED: So Oda presents his villains in that way and gives him development after they are defeated.
He uses all of his character to a maximum and usually doesn’t waste them in any way unlike other mangaka.

I disagree. I'll ask you this question. Have you ever thought WHY some people choose the wrong path?? have you ever asked why there are suicide bombers?? have you ever wondered why, in their right mind they would want to do that.

That's pretty much how Kishi plays out his villains, he actually makes them "human" and not only that, it makes the characterization that much more realistic. If there's any villain that Kishi's done a good job on so far, it would be Pain, Kabuto, Orochimaru and Zabuza and Haku. Just to clarify it a bit, Most of the villains' are only underlings who really don't have much impact on the plot and yet they each get flashbacks of their lives to help us understand them. To clarify it more, the villains, to be precise, don't have much impact on the main character, so I can see why Kishi doesn't have much qualms over it.

As for other characters, I'll agree that some of them are extremely wasted. (Like Danzo) but I'll have to disagree with you on Jiraiya, before he marched on to his death, Kishi gave him a bit of development, he even tried to confess to Tsunade, but was too cowardly to do so. Not only that, I remember a bit of his character development back in Part I when he fought Orochimaru.

As for Zabuza and Haku, even after they were brought back, Kishi still gave them a bit of development (unless you were too blind to see it)

I'll agree ET is a cheap way out to give more character development to the deceased. But hey, if Kishi can make the character development worthwhile, I don't mind.

The build-up of conflicts is better in OP, I'll grant you that, I guess.

As for me feeling the build-up of villains not being enough, that's only because their built-up is only mentioned in passing. So, I'm not satisfied.

 

[ashher]

Wow josl...after reading that story about crocodile, i'm getting worked up to read OP. One 'but' that nags me though is somehow it seems more like a popular character being brought back at times for the sake of making plot, and the plot not actually moving to show the development in the character. If i sum up things like that, quite a few other characters from different mangas may seem to have good development, whereas in actual manga it wasn't really well-conveyed or focused. I'll try OP again in any case. Oh about kisame, he wasn't wasted. He showed a side of the shinobi world. That is all its needed to satisfy me. It would've been way much easier to write an arc on him and one for all the named characters, but what's the point really? This way narutoverse seems to have better integration and cohesion...not just random arcs after arcs.

---

About themes and maturity and depth stuff, i dunno about one piece, but naruto is much advanced considered that its a shonen. Judging from the 1st 250 chapters of OP, luffy's way seemed pretty much similar to naruto and many other shonen heroes. Thing is Naruto is the one shonen that actually dared showing that such ways are pretty much impractical in life. Starting from power levels to interpretation of the characters...almost everything varies from reader to reader in naruto. Even such a common theme as 'destiny' is ambiguous in naruto, and readers would debate on and on about what exactly it means in narutoverse. Its not a mere difference on liking and disliking a character, as its in OP. Or take a 'wasted' character sakura...her confession was crazy stuff. Was she a bitch,or was she one with a golden heart? This is why i value characterization in naruto highly...just like real ppl...you can't just have one single opinion about them, or any theme of this manga. Who was right hiruzen or danzo...no way to tell for sure.This is depth to me. Naruto has much grittier tone really.

 

[Josl]

@josl:
You've brought up very good points. But I can't help but feel you're insulting my intelligence.
.

Was it the average intellect comment? I reread my post and it does seem offensive. However I meant to say that not only hardcore fans but also casual readers should be able to follow the development.
If I offended you or anyone else with this comment I apologize.

@josl:
I disagree. I'll ask you this question. Have you ever thought WHY some people choose the wrong path?? have you ever asked why there are suicide bombers?? have you ever wondered why, in their right mind they would want to do that.
.

Doflamnigo said it best
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-556/page008.html
Kids who never have seen peace and kids who never have seen war have different values
Everybody likes three dimensional characters. Oda does make his villains seem two dimensional with a few exceptions. Only after they are defeated he starts to make them three dimensional. OP has a lot of bad villains, especially underlings of main villains get often the short straw but it has also a lot of good hated villains. Naruto has also a lot of good villains but some characters just seem so wasted, especially when you would like to see more of them.

@josl:
To clarify it more, the villains, to be precise, don't have much impact on the main character, so I can see why Kishi doesn't have much qualms over it.
.

It’s the author job to make them important or use them to their fullest if he has them written in the story.

@josl:
As for other characters, I'll agree that some of them are extremely wasted. (Like Danzo) but I'll have to disagree with you on Jiraiya, before he marched on to his death, Kishi gave him a bit of development, he even tried to confess to Tsunade, but was too cowardly to do so. Not only that, I remember a bit of his character development back in Part I when he fought Orochimaru.

I think you have misunderstood me. I mentioned Jiraiya as a good used character and a good death.

Wow josl...after reading that story about crocodile, i'm getting worked up to read OP..

If you do start the Manga again then start at chapter 319:
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-319/page001.html
The water 7 arc is loved by the whole OP community and is somewhere in their individual top3. This arc goes from 319-365 and goes over in big fighting arc. If you don’t like OP after Water 7 then you will never like it.
A lot of people have stopped reading at skypia and started again successfully with the water 7 arc:

Spoiler

But truthfully I don’t know if you are belonging to those people. Your taste is anti mainstream with which I mean you like what most people don’t like. An example would be that you like the naruto hyperventilated while most people don’t and a few other things.

One 'but' that nags me though is somehow it seems more like a popular character being brought back at times for the sake of making plot, and the plot not actually moving to show the development in the character
.

It’s not only popular characters that are brought back but characters needed for the plot or have still a story to tell. But overall you are right. They are brought back for the sake of the story and get the development alongside. The development of characters in OP is subtle. I will try to explain what I mean. Take Zoro for example. When he met Luffy he said to him that if he stands in the way of his dream he will kill him. 600 chapters later he kneels to his arch enemy and begs him to make him stronger for the sake of Luffy. It’s through adventures they experienced together that do make their bond that strong. That can be said about every strawhat especially ussop who gets the most development. They are thinks that technically don’t even count as development such as sanjis. He was for 2 years on an Island full of transvestites and gets as a consequence nosebleed when he gets too exited. The flashbacks count more as characterisation.

There is also a lot of deep stuff in OP like the question:“ Is it ok to kill 100 people to protect 1000?" and other ones.

 

[Newkerzy]

Hmmm..... you bring up very valid points, I'll applaud you for that. Except just one little thing I don't really like...... When Doflamingo said that, there were way too much going on IMO. I mean, Oda had too many things going on in that chapter (the War), so for me, it felt like there wasn't enough focus on Oda's message in that chapter. I'll admit, after reading it a couple more times. I really like it. But like I said, Oda had too many things going on in that chapter, as a result, it felt kind of lacking for me. The Pain Speech is better IMO. Because Kishi made the transition very well from fighting to focusing on Kishi's message. Not only that, it felt more provocative for me. Of course, just my opinion.

Naruto has also a lot of good villains but some characters just seem so wasted, especially when you would like to see more of them.

Well, be happy. With the ET spam going on, and from what we saw from the ET shinobis, we had quite a LOT of developments. (although Kishi is doing it in a such a cheap way) but hey, if the character development is going to be worthwhile, I'm all for it.

 

[Kaiten]

Please remember this is a subjective topic, everyone is welcome to their opinion. Disagreeing is no reason to get personal. Bashing, flaming and name calling will not be tolerated. If it does not stop the thread will be closed permanently

 

[jorped]

Re: NARUTO vs.Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

I think both are very different styles of writing, and I'm sure that OP is WAY easier to write than Naruto. I mean, you have the Naruto fans in their forum discussing that the elemental composition of the chakra proves in fact that X character is able to learn a certain jutsu, there's even a thread discussing psychiatric illnesses of the characters, the culture, values and moral conflicts. I can imagine Kishimoto having headaches on whether his character can learn a jutsu because his blodline limit will allow it or if a raiton bunshin will use half of your chakra. The only people I've seen discussing stuff with so much frenzy by comparing it to the script are Jehova's witnesses with a bible.

Now, compare it to OP, where Oda can write something like this: "This time Luffy will go to a village where... there are... people that walk backwards, the villain will be able to convert anything into cottage cheese". You have an indestructible character made of rubber --rubber with no yield strenght nor plastic deformation whatsoever-- which usually gets powerups out of nowhere whenever he needs them, with no moral code but rather a life built upon a whim, and so many logical inconsistencies that you can't possibly have any plot hole as long as you have enough imagination. Does a sandman get beaten by using 20 liters of water? Great idea! Makes Marvel's Hydro looks stupid. Having a gigantic golden ball melted over your hand is nothing: rubber is indestructible.

Personally, I'll give more credit to Naruto because of the effort to create a "realistic" manga, on its own way; however I read One Piece and enjoy it dearly: it's funny, it's unexpected and exciting. But to me, comparing whether Naruto or One Piece are one better than the other is a matter of asking yourself what will make you consider something as "better". Is it that it makes you laugh? Is it that you don't have to think too much? If you cook dinner yourself isn't it more likely to get it wrong? Will you enjoy it if you order it delivered? Does it make it better? I, for instance, can be honest to you: One Piece has stupid characters, with ridiculous powers. But I love them, and enjoy them. Are they good? Yes. Better than Naruto? I don't think so.

yeah thats exactly what i think !!!! glad that at least one person think the same as i do.

i dont get why people say that one piece is so much better than naruto cuz in my oppinion it isnt. already saw someone that said this and i agree with with , in the beggining naruto was a way better than OP but in my oppinion OP since water7 ( not counting with thriller bark lol) became away better and for me naruto is still awesome but nowadays the 2 of them dont have the gap that they had in the beggining.

but one think still continues and that is that OP is more easy to understand , it is more simple. as you said kishi must have much more trouble to write the history than oda, kishi job in my oppinion is much more difficult , not that the difficult is a category to evaluate the mangas, but i can see that it must be difficult for kishi and until now i recognize his awesome work.

but the people that like more OP have to recognize that naruto villains are better , the history is better , the characters are better, we know much more about them that we know about OP characters and by that i cant undertsand this huge gap between the 2 oO.

in my oppinion both are great, both of them have categories that they are better than the other, i think naruto is better for the reasons i say but i never will say that naruto is >>>>>>> OP cuz that isnt truth , Naruto maybe a bit better but never "that". And for that i dont understand people say that OP>>>>>>naruto, when if you have read naruto you cant possible say that naruto doesnt win any categories against op

 

[ArtieBoy]

Re: NARUTO vs.Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

i dont get why people say that one piece is so much better than naruto cuz in my oppinion it isnt.

its clearly there OPINION! I think one piece is a lot better then Naruto but will i go running around trying to force my opinion on people? No. The only thing i will do is try to get the person to read the Manga to a CERTAIN point. if they like it cool if the don't not my lose.

already saw someone that said this and i agree with with , in the beggining naruto was a way better than OP

Clearly Biased opinion. If this was a fact I would of like narutos beginning as much as u did if not more. If anything I liked One Pieces Beginning a little more then Naruto because i liked that it had Adventure & action.

but one think still continues and that is that OP is more easy to understand, it is more simple.

Please elaborate? The most simple thing to understand in One Piece is You Eat a fruit & you get a power that varies in 3 different categories. but the downside is you cant swim.

as you said kishi must have much more trouble to write the history than oda,

how can the history in the world of Naruto be big if the Kishimoto only focus on a few sections of the Narutoverse @ a time? Whereas One Piece is centered around the whole world I can easily start naming crucial parts of the history that hasn't been explained yet that will play major roles in the story later to come.

kishi job in my oppinion is much more difficult , not that the difficult is a category to evaluate the mangas, but i can see that it must be difficult for kishi and until now i recognize his awesome work.

& i ask again Please Elaborate.

but the people that like more OP have to recognize that naruto villains are better , the history is better , the characters are better, we know much more about them that we know about OP characters and by that i cant undertsand this huge gap between the 2 oO.

most of the things you post is just pure biased.
How is naruto Villains better?
Because they have a back story? A lot of the mangas i read The villains Don't have a back story Do that make it Bad? no.
the history is better- Have you really payed attention the the History of one piece & just the story as a whole because if you did you wouldn't be making this assumption?
the characters are better - Name some Developed naruto characters along with there developments

when if you have read naruto you cant possible say that naruto doesnt win any categories against op

I would say naruto wins in a few categories but not the ones u named above

 

[jorped]

Re: NARUTO vs.Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

its clearly there OPINION! I think one piece is a lot better then Naruto but will i go running around trying to force my opinion on people? No. The only thing i will do is try to get the person to read the Manga to a CERTAIN point. if they like it cool if the don't not my lose.

okay i get it , you like more OP and that is completely understandable, we are all different, we have different side of views and thats why we have the different oppinions. For me i love OP but in my mind i clearly see Naruto has the better, and i try to be imparcial, and in the end the conclusion that i get is that Naruto beats OP. they are both shonen so its easy to compare both , cuz they are similiar. we can compare the cast , we can compare the story , we can comapre the all the all world of both of them and althought we can like more of one of those 2 in some categories its going to be impossible to say that one isnt better than the other on that specific category.

Clearly Biased opinion. if this was a fact i would of like narutos beginning as much as u did. if anything i liked one pieces a little more then Naruto because i liked that it had Adventure & action

i read both of them and i think that most of the people if they read both of them will think this way , cuz although One Piece was interesting on the beggining, seeing Luffy searching for crewmates, i think that everyone will think that at least comparing OP since the water7 arc ( not counting with thriller bark) is awy better than the beggining , and few people i think will say that buggy , or kuro, or arlong,....... cant beat the awesome beggining that Naruto had. The beggining of Naruto is clearly much better and this altought its based on a personall opinion i think i am not making any mistake , cuz naruto had everything that one piece had and more , the history was much more interesting. Naruto , someone that is not understand, nobody liked , and because of that he hated everyone. on school he was always the clown and his rival was sasuke , we was always training so hard but his progress was almost none cuz Sasuke was always so far away from him. And then the school ends and we somehow managed to graduate and he was placed on team with sasuke and sakura and since the begginig another awesome charcater appears , kakashi! the leader of team 7. the all idea of the missions divided on ranks , based on this difficulty to perform , arcs as zabuza and haku was what made me fall him love for Naruto , since the beggining that i love naruto , and since the beggining that naruto has everything that i like , it has action, it has awesome battles , it is original , that world seemed to be very well created, i loved naruto charcater , its the type of one that doesnt give ( the same as luffy) and he wants to protect those friends above everything.
Alot of thinks happened and one of the best thinks of Naruto part and that happened on the beggining was chunin exam , everything about it was just awesome , the introduction of orchimaru , we get to know abilities of ninjas of other villages as gaara was so amazing. zo based on what i see i can clearly say that the start of naruto beats clearly the start of OP , cuz it is much more interesting than when luffy found zoro , or when he managed to defeat kuro , i think that it isnt any comparation, cuz naruto story was much more interesting than OP one.


Saying that OP is easier to understand , its not a bad think cuz and its not something that can be used to judge on this case, cuz smarter doesnt mean better. i meant only to say that kishi work is harder than oda, kishi since the beggining he was much more bold than oda , alot more , and his story is clearly neeeded much more attention to understand and by that we know much more thinks about it.
I am not going to give examples cuz if someone read both they will easily understand what i am saying, in this case we can clearly be sure that it isnt personal thought it is a fact , at least until what both oda and kishi showed to us.

most of the things you post is just pure biased.
How is naruto Villains better?
Because they have a back story? A lot of the mangas i read The villains Don't have a back story Do that make it Bad? no.
the history is better- Have you really payed attention the the History of one piece & just the story as a whole because if you did you wouldn't be making this assumption?
the characters are better - Name some Developed naruto characters along with there developments

how is naruto villains better????

have you read Naruto? i think that its very unlikely for someone that did being saying that. i dont mind about back story, the only feeling in the end that matters is what i feel about this charcater presence. and i can say for sure that kabuto , or madara and especialy orochimaru beat who ever villain has appear until now on OP. blkackbeard for me although i get is "paper" comapring to orochimaru is a nothing lol. and that is a personal thought but also a fact i think , everything that blackbeard did orochimaru did . when we look to blackbeard we think that that guy is kinda pathetic, its much more difficult to get that feeling looking to naruto villains.

One Piece charcaters will never beat Naruto´s at least not for the gap that most of you think it has. in my oppinion the cast of naruto is much better, as i already said the villains are better , naruto for me wins against luffy , cuz they both are very look like but naruto is a more deep character, and he is a character that shows everything good that a human can be, althought the fact that his parent died , so he was alone on this world and plus that fact no one liked him because of the fact that he has the 9 tails inside of himself. his life wasnt easy , most of the person with a life like that would on the "dark side", but with the help of friends he managed to be "save" and for that the think that he most want to do his protect his friends, never giving up and he also wants wants to be the hokage so that everyone can respect him.

Plus the fights of Naruto are much more interesting than OP one, no chance that any fight of OP beats the classic that are for example, lee vs gaara ; sasuke vs naruto ( valley of end) ; naruto vs pain , ..........

the only think that for me OP clearly wins against Naruto is the fact that it is more fun, with those scenes ,that since the begging happen , that it is seeing luffy asking stupid questions, or seeing sanji always with his super obcession with the ladies , also seeing ussop being always scared ( but it seems now that it changed a bit ) ,.......

so for me i think that naruto is better than OP , altough the fact OP is also great.

 

[ArtieBoy]

Re: NARUTO vs.Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

okay i get it , you like more OP and that is completely understandable, we are all different,

Me & 300 other people lol

we have different side of views and thats why we have the different oppinions.

clearly

For me i love OP but in my mind i clearly see Naruto has the better,

I mean obviously,
1. U never answered any of my main questions
2. every time you compare the 2 you mainly talk about Narutos serious side to One piece Comical side (which is very unfair)

and i try to be imparcial, and in the end the conclusion that i get is that Naruto beats OP.

don't look that way to me. Just look @ this post & u can see how much u go into detail about naruto but you give a quick 2 or 3 sentences for one piece side.

they are both shonen so its easy to compare both , cuz they are similiar. we can compare the cast , we can compare the story , we can comapre the all the all world of both of them and althought we can like more of one of those 2 in some categories its going to be impossible to say that one isnt better than the other on that specific category.

so by your logic we can compare any manga with any manga because
1. Just about every manga has a story,
2. Most action/adventure mangas has a world
3. every manga out there has a cast
so why just compare the Shonen demographic with the Shonen demographic?

i read both of them and i think that most of the people if they read both of them will think this way,

Maybe, maybe not. naruto start was good, Flashy & action pack, but we got a little to much with not enough insight. so IMO i think the execution wasn't all there.

cuz although One Piece was interesting on the beggining, seeing Luffy searching for crewmates, i think that everyone will think that at least comparing OP since the water7 arc ( not counting with thriller bark) is awy better than the beggining ,

you say you try to be *impartial* but you compare climatic arcs to *beginning* arcs? Once Again not a fair comparison on your part.

and few people i think will say that buggy , or kuro, or arlong,....... can beat the awesome beggining that Naruto had.

in the beginning we had a Money Hungry Buffoon

I care taker who was once a pirate who deceived the the richest girl in the village to try to take her wealth because he was tired of the pirate life.

and a Fish man crew take over a village because they don't like the human race because the humans discriminated against them in one point in time (& still does now) to make them feel there pain in suffering

Might i add none of these arcs took place in the same town or Village

sounds exciting to me

cuz naruto had everything that one piece had and more ,

And that was?

the history was much more interesting.

& i ask again, How so?

Naruto , someone that is not understand, nobody liked ,nobody liked ,

the miss understood main character. that nobody liked How original

and because of that he hated everyone.

Naruto didn't hate anyone He was a delinquent who wanted to prove himself to the world

on school he was always the clown

why would he be a class clown if he hates everyone?

and his rival was sasuke , we was always training so hard but his progress was almost none cuz Sasuke was always so far away from him. And then the school ends and we somehow managed to graduate and he was placed on team with sasuke and sakura and since the begginig another awesome charcater appears , kakashi! the leader of team 7. the all idea of the missions divided on ranks , based on this difficulty to perform , arcs as zabuza and haku was what made me fall him love for Naruto , since the beggining that i love naruto , and since the beggining that naruto has everything that i like , it has action, it has awesome battles , it is original , that world seemed to be very well created, i loved naruto charcater , its the type of one that doesnt give ( the same as luffy) and he wants to protect those friends above everything.
Alot of thinks happened and one of the best thinks of Naruto part and that happened on the beggining was chunin exam , everything about it was just awesome , the introduction of orchimaru , we get to know abilities of ninjas of other villages as gaara was so amazing. zo based on what i see i can clearly say that the start of naruto beats clearly the start of OP , cuz it is much more interesting than when luffy found zoro , or when he managed to defeat kuro , i think that it isnt any comparation, cuz naruto story was much more interesting than OP one.

& the rest is just a synopsis on the first major arc which doesn't prove anything about Naruto being better because of your inability to compare things.
But look @ what we have here?! After you give a huge summery about naruto you then give two brief & short examples of how one piece is lacking. Is this you trying to be impartial?

Saying that OP is easy to understand , its not a bad think cuz and its not something that can be used to judge on this case, cuz smarter doesnt mean better.

All i want to know is HOW is one piece easy to understand. I never assumed you meant that i thought U was saying one piece was bad because its easy to understand. I just want you to elaborate on how is it easy to understand.

i meant only to say that kishi work is harder than oda, kishi since the beggining he was much more bold than oda ,alot more

& i ask Again How so?

and his story is clearly neeeded much more attention to understand and by that we know much more thinks about it.

I would say they need just about the same attention. Because if you miss a important note Like the straw hats saying they want to go to fishman island & then you end up confused about why are they at this place it might as well be filler thats them failing to pay attention to key notes. & if some one says This 4th world war is retarded in naruto they would look just as stupid because they failed to pay attention. Just like how i failed to pay attention to how the power system works in Hunter x Hunter. now i need to go back & read it slowly because i tried to speed read that series

I am not going to give examples cuz if someone read both they will easily understand what i am saying, in this case we can clearly be sure that it isnt personal thought it is a fact , at least until what both oda and kishi showed to us.

if you wanted to back up your claims better then you should be able to give examples no problem. I read Naruto & One Piece faithfully on a week to week bases, & i was a narutard @ 1 point in time. but i don't think naruto is better, which is why examples would be good. this makes me question whether or not you've read One Piece throughly.

how is naruto villains better????

have you read Naruto?

Yea I've read it but if someones ask you a question you answer it. Thats how debates work

i think that its very likely for someone that did being saying that.

what? seriously what is this suppose to mean I'm highly confused.

I dont mind about back story,

Neither do i its just icing on the cake

the only feeling in the end that matters is what i feel about this charcater presence.

so how do you feel towards the characters?

and i can say for sure that kabuto , or madara and especialy orochimaru beat who ever villain has appear until now on OP. blkackbeard for me although i get is "paper" comapring to orochimaru is a nothing lol.

How so?

and that is a personal thought but also a fact i think ,

just like how i think its a fact how One Piece is better then Naruto Lol

everything that blackbeard did orochimaru did.

they did the same things? Orochimaru didn't have to bring anyone to the Akatsuki to become a Akatsuki member. BB on the other hand had to Capture Ace also BB Left the shichibukai & from what i remember Orochimaru was kicked out. so with that being said Orochimaru did nothing BB did.

when we look to blackbeard we think that that guy is kinda pathetic,

A cowardly villain In one piece sounds bold one Odas part & he looks ugly too.
its much more difficult to get that feeling looking to naruto villains. which isn't very bold now is it?

One Piece charcaters will never beat Naruto´s at least not for the gao that most of you think it has.

Elaborate

in my oppinion the cast of naruto is much better

Elaborate

as i already said the villains are better ,

Elaborate

naruto for me wins against luffy , cuz they both are very look like but naruto is a more deep character,

IDK what to make of the bold part. how are the characters Deeper?

and he is a character that shows everything good that a human can be, althought the fact that his parent died ,

He didn't know his parents up until recently tho that part is irrelevant Theres many good people out there who don't know there parents. you can also say Luffy Is a character that shows everything good that a human can be although the fact that he don't know his parents & he WATCHED his Brother get killed on the battlefield

so he was alone on this world and plus that fact no one liked him because of the fact that he has the 9 tails inside of himself. his life wasnt easy ,

Luffy dont like being alone which is why he latches on to people which in itself is a deep character trait

Plus the fights of Naruto are much more interesting than OP one, no chance that any fight of OP beats the classic that are for example, lee vs gaara ; sasuke vs naruto ( valley of end) ; naruto vs pain , ..........

Opinion


If you dont feel like answering any of my questions you might as well not respond @ all & if you do reply to my post without making some decent points & comparisons i wont respond @ all. it was i was even debating with myself whether or not to reply to this.

 

[jorped]

lol i am not going to answer to all that cuz i dont need to , to make you understand my point.

first you say that naruto didnt hated everyone, and i will say to you look here:

http://www.mangareader.net/93-137-8/naruto/chapter-132.html

the reason why i i say much more sentences about Naruto than OP cuz i really connect with Naruto history and Naruto has much more to say than OP.

First of all lets see the history , i will try to compare both :

One Piece:

there is a little kid that wants to be a pirate , that his is dream. He admire Shanks and wanna to join his crew. But Shanks as a great man he is and has a man that knows the danger of the seas doesnt want him on his crew. One day some bandits come to the village where luffy lives and they went to the bar where luffy and the pirates were and they started messing with the pirates but shanks letted them continue doing that , despite the fact that if he wanted he could end with that in seconds. Luffy was very dissapointed and didnt realize why shanks didnt fight back and was very dissapointed. but thats when they realize that luffy had oponned the treasure box and that he ate the devil fruit that changed luffy body into a rubber, so from no one he turned into a rubberman. another day those bandits return to the bar and there is only luffy and the barman , luffy started a fight with the bandits cuz they were calling names to shanks crew, and obviously luffy lost , but after sometime shanks crew appear again at the village and when they know what happened to luffy they go save him, and they this time are serious, when they find the bandits , they say to the to stop , cuz if they dont they are going to be killed. shanks wasnt kidding but the leader of the bandits somehow managed to get away with luffy, and they went to the sea, nobody would suspect that they went to the sea, but shanks managed to find them and saves luffy but he ends lossing his arm. luffy that they learnt a very precious lesson, and shanks gave to him his hat , and say before he leaving that when he managed to become a great pirate he would want his hat back, so shanks and his crew left the village and luffy decided to wait more time , until he becomes stronger.

Naruto :

There is a kid, his name is naruto and he wants to be a hokage, that is the strongest ninja on the village, cuz he wants to be respected by everyone. since he was child that he is hated by everyone and because of that he also hates them, cuz he doesnt know what he did to be so hated. the reason why he is only going to know sometime later, but the reason is because inside of himslef he has a monster that years ago almost destroyed the village. So nobody likes him and he doesnt have any familiy , they never new his parents so his life is very sad, he doesnt have anyone to support him. he always does stupid thinks to try to get attention, but that doesnt make the thniks better, he still is alone, but with time he managed to get good friends and for him they are important than everything, he will give his life for them.


so they both seem to have a great history, but for me i still would be a bit more interested about the naruto one.

But what oda did after this for me is much less bold and much less interesting than what kishi did. i dont know for me the beggining of naruto is much more interested than the begginig of naruto.

i think theirs no comparation between zabuza arc or exam chunin arcs with buggy arcs , arlong arcs. Naruto was much more interesting at least for me , and One Piece. the fights that Naruto has on the beggining are just epic, i still remember my first time that i thought that naruto was epic , seeing him finding a away of managed to force zabuza to end the jutsu that was letting kakashi prisioned was just epic, nothing that i haver felt in the first 200 chapters of OP. still i liked much more the way that naruto was going than the way OP was cuz for me not counting with the arc that they met frankie , the others that they were island on island trying to find crewmates were nothnig special , it was good but for me it wasnt that good. for me one piece only can be as good as most of you say if you are only counting since water 7 ( except thriller bark) cuz until there we saw nothing special, maybe the best part until them would have been the arlong arc, but arcs as skypea were super boring! and about naruto i never felt that , of course some chapters were not as interesting, thats obvious , but never that boring , at least for me. and the major problem that make people say that naruto is not the same that it was before is the fact that they dont like the way Naruto still is after Sasuke , for me i completely get it and i like much more these way cuz if naruto had give up on sasuke it wouldnt be the same Naruto we know since the beggining.


about me saying that is easier to understand his cause naruto has much more behind it , and by that if someone wants to understand it they will be force to have a good knowledge about the all history behind, and about one piece is not exaclty the same , at least it isnt needed the same ammount of concentration.

And i didnt never say that we could compare any manga with any manga, but on these case i think we can compare naruto and op cuz they both are shonen and by that they are similiar in some aspects.

as you have read naruto , and you still think that op villains are better i will not say anything cuz if the work of kishi didnt gave that idea so is not me with simple words that am going to change that.


About me saying that Naruto is deeper than Luffy i am not saying any mistake a think , they both are very similiar, but Naruto manages to have more concerns , he has much more troubles than luffy and we already saw that he doesnt solve everything by fighting. if you saw naruto vs pain you will get what i mean. at least until these time luffy havent shown that , but its still possible that luffy does , OP is only half made.


About the charcaters i like much more of Naruto ones , maybe thats cuz we have much more info about naruto`s but i think that characters like shikamaru, gaara, kakashi , naruto ,orochimaro, .... are much more stronger than the ones that OP has.


The fights are much more interesting , the fights of OP only became interesting until the fight of luffy vs lucci until them it was very boring, and in naruto fights i dont feel that , we see naruto and others characters winning crazy plans, in naruto we see much more teamwork than in one piece that is almost all the times each of them fighting against another guy.

 

[DLord.Van.Buuren]

i read both of them and i think that most of the people if they read both of them will think this way,

I in fact read all three of them

And I say to you that OP is much more larger and open on a zillion plot possibilities than naruto.

Naruto is heading in a clear direction which is Naruto becoming hokage and surpassing the last generation and we can almost predict whats gonna happent in between while in OP you can't even predict whats gonna happen next chapter.

 

[jorped]

I in fact read all three of them

And I say to you that OP is much more larger and open on a zillion plot possibilities than naruto.

Naruto is heading in a clear direction which is Naruto becoming hokage and surpassing the last generation and we can almost predict whats gonna happent in between while in OP you can't even predict whats gonna happen next chapter.

lol thats funny to say , cuz naruto is almost at his end and op is half of his history.

if you want me also to predict what is going to happen for one piece, i can say:

one piece is also goin in a clear direction to luffy and his crew find one piece LOL and luffy become the pirate king

still despite the fact that naruto is almost in the end , more thinks are going to be revealed than in one piece on this last half, at least if oda does the same think he did on the first half

 

[DLord.Van.Buuren]

Well, I have to agree that adult people may not like how OP and naruto are handled and the way characters are being drawn, and I think you might be right on how bleach should appeal to seinen audience, however, bleach doesn't meet the standards for a seinen manga, its basically trash, why ? people bleed to the death but don't actually die, I've seen seinen characters getting hit by a train and did actually die as well as a load of rape scenes, and bleach doesn't have that, its a safe manga and thats how kubo intended it to be. Its meant for shounen audience.Heck even OP is more likely to be called violent than the other two.

I'm a fan of bleach despite being a trash manga and I argue from my experience with the manga unlike some of you guys who read a couple of chapters from OP and then coming here just for the sake of arguing which is irrational and doesn't make sense btw.

OP has a solid fan base who actually do read the other two which is not the case for bleach fans or narufans.

@BleachOD,We may have diffrent views since you consider bleach your passion in life, so its only natural for you to defend it with all your might and I respect that as well as I respect how people defend what they believe in.As for me its just an amusement and fun thing to do on my free time.