Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2010] - Discussion and TOC Talk
Guys continuing this discussion is useless they are diferent manga with few comon points so there's no use comparing them.
I like both Naruto and OP and even though I like Naruto better I understand that OP is superior and I don't really care as long as both are superior to bleach xD
Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2010] - Discussion and TOC Talk
When it happened? I like to 'read' that, probably funny stuff. Or maybe its just OP tard who doesn't want Naruto tard to defend his/her read manga. Still, funny stuff you say - as far as I'm concerned, those "Naruto fanatics" doesn't even know what OP is. funny.
It happens a lot on livejournal whenever the weekly oricon manga rankings are out (of course especially on a week when the Jump manga are released)... All the Naruto fans say the same thing that goes along the line of "I never got the appeal of One Piece". And the thing is, you're right, most of them have never read One Piece, or think they have after reading like 5 chapters/watching 1 episode :/
I started reading Naruto 7 or 8 years ago, One Piece 4 years ago, and even then One Piece is superior imo. I think both have some degree of forward planning, but neither have a lot of it (at least more than Bleach after the SS arc though). Perhaps moreso for Naruto. At least for One Piece you get the feeling things are coming together. But I disagree that either have plotholes, since both are unfinished and those "plotholes" could be later revisited and taken care of. It's only when it ends when you can talk about plotholes.
Nonetheless imo Oda-sensei's the better storyteller, and Naruto is in no way deeper than any other standard shounen manga. I mean all Naruto (or well he was repeating Nagato) said was "if there's any semblance of peace, I'll grab it with these hands", and how is that philosophical/deep? It doesn't reach a conclusion about what peace is, just that "I don't know what it is but when I find it I'll do whatever I can to get it"? Which was the same thinking he had before the Pain incident anyway. I was looking forward to how Kishimoto-sensei would answer that whole peace debate and then it ended like that :/ I hope at the end of the manga at least he gives a better answer.
Anyway, hurrah for Bakuman cover+CP! \o/ Can't wait to see what sort of visual treat Obata-sensei gives us! ^^
Thx for the info, saladesu. Fortunately for me, I don't "visit" livejournals" xd
About discussing anything related to Naruto vs OP or even vs Bleach <xd>, I suggest going to the other thread - though I'm not a moderator, I think we're going waaaay offtopic with this.
Good heavens this week we have SJ - I missed my weekly dozes of shounen manga *x*
It happens a lot on livejournal whenever the weekly oricon manga rankings are out (of course especially on a week when the Jump manga are released)... All the Naruto fans say the same thing that goes along the line of "I never got the appeal of One Piece". And the thing is, you're right, most of them have never read One Piece, or think they have after reading like 5 chapters/watching 1 episode :/
Actually, I have read OP up until the franky arc. And to be honest, now that I look back at it, there hasn't been any serious plot up until that arc. Which is why I quit reading it. So, suffice to say, I don't regret it at all. But if you wanna convince me, you might as well make a few lists of the "serious plots" (don't worry, I already know most of the story to pull bits & pieces together.
Actually, I have read OP up until the franky arc. And to be honest, now that I look back at it, there hasn't been any serious plot up until that arc. Which is why I quit reading it. So, suffice to say, I don't regret it at all. But if you wanna convince me, you might as well make a few lists of the "serious plots" (don't worry, I already know most of the story to pull bits & pieces together.
what exactly you mean by plot? story depth? or serious plot? i ask you so that you can share with all what you point are and people can give you the right or most suitable answers.
Do forgive me for my lack of brain cells since I am at the moment observing the holy month of Ramadhan (in other words, I'm fasting) & because of that I am unable to make good enough arguments... I hope I can find the time to properly convey my thoughts....
please, i hope you do not misunderstood my post. i actually don't like involve in the argument which manga is better but i like to read what your thought about the mangas that i like or read and in this context refer to naruto, bleach and one piece. in their respective thread or forums, we already have a couple of thread why the fans thought their favorite manga is better than other mangas. but that kind of thread only has fans of that particular manga.this thread we have more than 1 kind of fan. so i like to hear/read people opinion here. and i'm also fasting.. happy fasting sir..
Actually, I have read OP up until the franky arc. And to be honest, now that I look back at it, there hasn't been any serious plot up until that arc. Which is why I quit reading it. So, suffice to say, I don't regret it at all. But if you wanna convince me, you might as well make a few lists of the "serious plots" (don't worry, I already know most of the story to pull bits & pieces together.
Good luck on ur fast. I'm fasting too here, but way off the equator, so I'm doing it for about 18 hours and don't have the piety to stay off this forum for that longXD.
When it comes to preference there is nothing that one can do. It's like food. But I do believe "best" food/diet exist. Some may not like or need the "best". And frankly I am OK with them. For instance I prefer naruto (mcdonald) than death note (uber high class cuisine). But I will admit that death note is more of a master piece compared to naruto in aspects that they share. And I disagree, we can always compare manga especially when they share many genre.
OP is a lot more easy going than naruto. Naruto feels serious because it's written in a darker atmosphere/tone. However, if you are referring serious to "huge" revelation, OP is only halfway done and could be more. SH crew is only consist of 9 people. Some may not like the way it progresses or the pace, but after reading almost 600 chapters, there hasn't been a useless arc or consecutive chapters that doesn't lead/related to OP.
Unlike naruto, OP is also manga about the SH crews not just about luffy and finding OP. Naruto as it states is only about naruto, so the plot progress faster as it only revolve around him being the strongest ninja in history. Sasuke unbelievable screentime is required as a build up for final sasuke vs naruto fight. So, kishi is only capable of writing about 2 characters at most.
But in OP each crew always have their separate challenges and goals. OP have more than one important giant plots in progress. And they are all connected by a string, OP. If you are referring serious to the "big" plots in the future, they're not only related to luffy, however as a captain he is the banner that everyone stood for. Robin is finding tablets to reveal the true history, Shiki the Lion's plan, drawing the world map, finding all blue, WG, revolutionary army etc. OP universe expands as Luffy is getting closer to his goal.
And readers are not forced to swallow the "whole" idea or expansion of the manga in one/couple of chapters. Through SH adventure from one island to another, new plots, characters and settings are often introduced as a steady progress towards the final destination. So, in a while I'm just sitting back and enjoying the ride. Those who can't enjoy is are welcome to leave the ship.
Many previous posts has actually say OP superiority in some aspects and Naruto superiority in others. So I hope my post is relevant to your request.
Yes, you could be right. But its still to be seen, and sometimes fans blindly see for their mangakas and their manga. Till now OP didn't had any "huge" revelation because of being only "the beginning" <I think its not even halfway through > The only thing which lately came to be huge revelation <even if its not huge revelation in literal sense> would be
erm, spoilers are needed in such topic?
death of Ace
hibar90 said:
OP universe expands as Luffy is getting closer to his goal.
The same goes for Naruto manga. Who would have thought we will see so much more about other villages than Konoha in part 2 especially. Suna, Kumo <even some "crappy" Ame>, and the manga reaches its end - I didn't think Kishi would show so much more, and yet.. so my hopes are for seeing much more about Kiri/Iwa now, its just a style of Kishi. By this we also can say that "Narutoverse expands as Naruto is getting closer to his goal/s" and its nothing wrong with saying this to Naruto as well.
hibar90, as I agree with your post, I would like to make 2 points:
Yes, you could be right. But its still to be seen, and sometimes fans blindly see for their mangakas and their manga. Till now OP didn't had any "huge" revelation because of being only "the beginning" <I think its not even halfway through > The only thing which lately came to be huge revelation <even if its not huge revelation in literal sense> would be
The same goes for Naruto manga. Who would have thought we will see so much more about other villages than Konoha in part 2 especially. Suna, Kumo <even some "crappy" Ame>, and the manga reaches its end - I didn't think Kishi would show so much more, and yet.. so my hopes are for seeing much more about Kiri/Iwa now, its just a style of Kishi. By this we also can say that "Narutoverse expands as Naruto is getting closer to his goal/s" and its nothing wrong with saying this to Naruto as well.
If you are implying that the big stuff doesn't exist or may never come, I have to disagree as I already wrote the few to mention. When it's revealed it may be disappointing or not well written as it should. But it's there. The spoiler itself is not a revelation, but it's a drive for character/plot development. The only new things that readers wasn't generally expecting/forseen was ace being roger's son. For example this was not only to develop luffy as a potential major threat to WG and their future conflicts, but a good material to write about ace (I'm not gonna say what it is, read it and weep yourself:P). So Oda can write about multiple characters w/o being side track from the main's development.
Of course it will eventually expand, it's an adventure genre anyway. All 3 are typical DBZ shounen. DBZ expanded from earth to universal scale. Naruto being strongest/hokage is going to impact the world eventually. But what we see most of the time in panels in bleach is white and naruto huge facial shot. Naruto has occasional landscape shot, but it's either scenery or face, they never blend in or at least blend well. The setting in bleach and naruto has little to do in the art and plot. They exist for the sake of existing. The place itself doesn't contribute anything to the plot.
Things may be happening in suna, kumo and kiri (part I), but they are just stage where "another" battle can happen and make naruto stronger. The place itself isn't important. Apart from being there and look around the occasional shot of scenery what good/progression does it make?
For example: Why kumo able to have such training ground where it's not possible for other villages? Who built such temple? Most of the time we're in naruto conscious anyway. When suna get some screentime, what relevant things did the setting revealed? Gaara getting his ass kicked by unfully prepared deidara in his own turf? Therefore I have to disagree with you again. Ame is not crappy, but most well written IMHO. From its geographical location we understand why shitty things happen there. And those things develop the antagonist, and later work well with the protagonist. Most other related clan to naruto for possible settings such as whirlpool is shown in one panel. In bleach I never expect anything to be explained to make sense (in their universe sense) anymore.
In OP they're not only another battle stage. The setting is one of OP strong point. They are usually related to the introduced villain and the protagonist character. Brook being skeleton in thriller bark vs moria shadow power and zombies. Franky and co. shipwright experty in water 7 vs aqua laguna and Robin past history with justice/law in ennies lobby. The setting in OP is heavily related to character, thus lead to plot/character progression.
I agree with the both of you, especially hibar90 ^^
But the thing that stands out to me about OP when it comes to characters is that there are few 'wasted' characters or 'background' characters or characters that fade to obscurity, save maybe for the villains (but hey, even Crocodile, and a whole bunch of the Mr <insert number>s, all of whom were villains, return later). You get to see everyone as they strive to reach their goals, not just Luffy. As for Naruto, I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know more about the rest of Konoha 11 (and the Sand siblings) in particular, but all we get are Naruto and Sasuke and a little of Sakura and Shikamaru while Kishimoto-sensei goes on to introduce other new characters like Bee :/
Well, in spite of all that, I do love both manga and eagerly look forward to them every week XD I guess at the end of the day, neither Kishimoto-sensei nor Oda-sensei are Shakespeares, and ultimately this is entertainment, not literature, so we should just enjoy the ride~
Bleach, on the other hand, since this is a OP vs Naruto vs Bleach topic... Well, it's ceasing even being entertaining when every week more or less the same thing happens and Aizen just gloats at us readers and the rest of the Bleachverse
Of course it will eventually expand, it's an adventure genre anyway. All 3 are typical DBZ shounen. DBZ expanded from earth to universal scale. Naruto being strongest/hokage is going to impact the world eventually. But what we see most of the time in panels in bleach is white and naruto huge facial shot. Naruto has occasional landscape shot, but it's either scenery or face, they never blend in or at least blend well. The setting in bleach and naruto has little to do in the art and plot. They exist for the sake of existing. The place itself doesn't contribute anything to the plot.
Things may be happening in suna, kumo and kiri (part I), but they are just stage where "another" battle can happen and make naruto stronger. The place itself isn't important. Apart from being there and look around the occasional shot of scenery what good/progression does it make?
For example: Why kumo able to have such training ground where it's not possible for other villages? Who built such temple? Most of the time we're in naruto conscious anyway. When suna get some screentime, what relevant things did the setting revealed? Gaara getting his ass kicked by unfully prepared deidara in his own turf? Therefore I have to disagree with you again. Ame is not crappy, but most well written IMHO. From its geographical location we understand why shitty things happen there. And those things develop the antagonist, and later work well with the protagonist. Most other related clan to naruto for possible settings such as whirlpool is shown in one panel. In bleach I never expect anything to be explained to make sense (in their universe sense) anymore.
In OP they're not only another battle stage. The setting is one of OP strong point. They are usually related to the introduced villain and the protagonist character. Brook being skeleton in thriller bark vs moria shadow power and zombies. Franky and co. shipwright experty in water 7 vs aqua laguna and Robin past history with justice/law in ennies lobby. The setting in OP is heavily related to character, thus lead to plot/character progression.
wow.. this is the first time i read someone comment something like this about naruto and one piece.. and this is why i always thinking that actually naruto part.1 consist of much bidder world setting than in part2.. part2, yes kishimoto show us some battle in other country but it just a battle in other country.. the country itself does not important to the story anymore.. but in part1, although most of the battle is in konoha or fire country but we(readers) still see different kind of culture. for example the town where naruto and jiraiya looking for tsunade.. when reading that part of the story, it is really feel the fire country is big.. outside of konoha and fire country, kishi shows us that bridge country(forgot the name) with different type of culture.. other example is suna village and its political interaction with konoha..
No, I'm not saying "the big stuff" doesn't exist, I'm saying that saying <xd> "it will come" is just your speculation on the matter. What if sth like that didn't happen at all? <of course its Oda we're talkibg about, he's gonna do it sometime, but I'm showing you how "blind" a fan can be> This was irrelevant to the discussion, as anybody can say "sth big will happen in Naruto/Bleach" as well. We're going with what we have xd
Nice post. I started quoting right away without reading it all and didn't catch what you were implying by scenery's, but after the examples I think I got the picture: I misunderstood you - by expanding I meant "showing the places which were introduced at the very beginning of the manga", like: Kakashi explains the world to Naruto, there's a map, and later on through the manga you learn more and more about the places. That's what I refer by expanding, not relation to the plot. But I did wrote a reply before I read you're whole post, so let's continue the discussion <I may be very inpolite in questioning your questions, and if that's the case: I'm sorry, but to me they seem out of place when talking about shounen genre mangas ^^> Of course be harsh to me as well if I'm bashing or sth
hibar90 said:
But what we see most of the time in panels in bleach is white and naruto huge facial shot. Naruto has occasional landscape shot, but it's either scenery or face, they never blend in or at least blend well. The setting in bleach and naruto has little to do in the art and plot. They exist for the sake of existing. The place itself doesn't contribute anything to the plot.
Oh, its good that you pointed out about that - recently I talked about it in the pl thread <with "3 big shounenes"> and that's one of the things Naruto is proud of: art <and I will always defend that>. Because you say about "huge facial expression" - could you elaborate more? I don't quite get what you're talkibg about. When Kishi puts a big panel, its ALWAYS to portray sth relevant, sth "big", sth to "show off". The same goes for Oda and Kubo <though the difference between Naruto/OP and Bleach is.. yesh, Bleach doesn't have background, blank space.. yet characters are beautifully drawn> I expect someone to say sth about backgrounds in Bleach, BUT I didn't saw it coming towards Naruto. I can discuss the art, bring it on xD
I don't quite get what you say by "it blend well"? One of the <in the objective point of view> strongest point in Naruto manga are backgrounds and scenery. I think you're not trying to say that Naruto's backgrounds are poor ; > If that's what you're implying, I will make my reply trying to be very obecjective <because I think we're trying to be objective here >
hibar90 said:
Things may be happening in suna, kumo and kiri (part I), but they are just stage where "another" battle can happen and make naruto stronger. The place itself isn't important. Apart from being there and look around the occasional shot of scenery what good/progression does it make?
For example: Why kumo able to have such training ground where it's not possible for other villages? Who built such temple? Most of the time we're in naruto conscious anyway. When suna get some screentime, what relevant things did the setting revealed? Gaara getting his ass kicked by unfully prepared deidara in his own turf? Therefore I have to disagree with you again. Ame is not crappy, but most well written IMHO. From its geographical location we understand why shitty things happen there. And those things develop the antagonist, and later work well with the protagonist. Most other related clan to naruto for possible settings such as whirlpool is shown in one panel. In bleach I never expect anything to be explained to make sense (in their universe sense) anymore.
In OP they're not only another battle stage. The setting is one of OP strong point. They are usually related to the introduced villain and the protagonist character. Brook being skeleton in thriller bark vs moria shadow power and zombies. Franky and co. shipwright experty in water 7 vs aqua laguna and Robin past history with justice/law in ennies lobby. The setting in OP is heavily related to character, thus lead to plot/character progression.
<that's the part I understood you point of view about "expansion of the world" and thought: what the hell, I'm talking about sth entirely different xP>
First I would like to address your first question: battles. Even if its not relevant to the plot, its relevant to the enjoment of the fight <not some blank spaces like in Bleach> I do like a lot backgrounds, even its just a simple tree. That's why I enjoy it in OP, that's why I enjoy it in Naruto, that's why I enjoy it in Ble.. I mean, in SS arc of Bleach xd
Second of all: for the examples you ask silly questions <I'm serious> I will try to answer what I mean for each:
1. Because its KumoGakure we're talkibg about? Its pretty obvious that its villages property, why to let other villages go there and train there jinchuuriki? I think Kishi pretty well did on kage summit giving as an interpretation of Cloud Village? Bah, what I'm talking about: any other village would probably not let any other jinchuuriki than their own train there. really lame question to prove you point
2. Man, are you serious? All 3 big titles are fighting shounens, its like saying: why the hell characters aren't shown to pee in the toilet? .. really lame question to prove you point
3. How it looks like, that's the point.
4. Ekhem, I could go on and on why Gaara lost and DeiDei-chan won, but I won't. I can just answer: because Deidara is stronger..
About Ame - I wrote it in ", therefore I put is as irony: there are 5 big villages with 5 big countries. Ame is small village in small country therefore it should be irrelevant, but Kishi shown it.. why.. Nagato was from there. It doesn't affect a plot.. not. But yeah, you wrote about that until I read that part xd
About OP: yes, that's why I say we misunderstood each other <or I didn't catch what you were referring by expansion". I thought you're saying: showing more of the universe of the manga. BUT<!> I will be fair: I don't like what you imply, I find it very cliche. For one, it seems more like a cartoon rather than fighting shounen <srsly, all ppl are connected to the place?> Like, Brook in Thriller Bark showing off to became at the end the next member of SH? I think its not even good for my tastes. Moria being the Shichibukai boss in Thriller Bark arc? Wow, its to me like saying: Naruto should fight Gaara in SunaGakure for the sake of the "scenery" becoming part of the plot? Its really cliche to me and very cartoonish <hell, I don't know how to tell this, but it makes the story seem more unrealistic <funny, but maybe that's the point of fighting shounens, especially OP> - that's why the last arc of OP was f*cking great - and what, the place was just a setting for execution of Ace. Its cool.
hisoga said:
part2, yes kishimoto show us some battle in other country but it just a battle in other country.. the country itself does not important to the story anymore..
Yeah, well, KumoGakure doesn't exist in Narutoverse and its not important to the story anymore.. Raikage is not the leader of the alliance of 5 big villages, and Killer B isn't a jinchuuriki who trains Naruto. Heck, even Omoi and Karui didn't have impact on the main protagonist.. I'm speechless.
Yeah, well, KumoGakure doesn't exist in Narutoverse and its not important to the story anymore.. Raikage is not the leader of the alliance of 5 big villages, and Killer B isn't a jinchuuriki who trains Naruto. Heck, even Omoi and Karui didn't have impact on the main protagonist.. I'm speechless.
well, i guest you don't understand what i'm trying to say. any other kages actually can become the leader of the alliance. they just voluntarily pick raikage to do the job even when they know raikage failed to kill/stop sasuke, also mindlessly lost his arm to sasuke, lost 2 jinchuuriki under his nose(sort of), very aggressive attitude and easy to lost his temper. what exactly omoi and karui impact on the story? another background character? a walking radar?
to me, in the end, anybody can do what these characters do and what they do right now don't actually related with their country and culture. maybe except for jinchuuriki's training. but still kishi doesn't explain why cloud country is the only one with that kind of knowledge. why not konoha because of konoha relationship with some people born with a special chakra to surpress bijuu?
The same goes for Naruto manga. Who would have thought we will see so much more about other villages than Konoha in part 2 especially. Suna, Kumo <even some "crappy" Ame>, and the manga reaches its end - I didn't think Kishi would show so much more, and yet.. so my hopes are for seeing much more about Kiri/Iwa now, its just a style of Kishi. By this we also can say that "Narutoverse expands as Naruto is getting closer to his goal/s" and its nothing wrong with saying this to Naruto as well.
To be honest, I'm not really satisfied with that. Sungakure has no relevance whatsover right now, and probably won't have anymore (hell, even in that colorspread featuring the shinobi from different villages, Kishi didn't bother showing any Suna-nins).
Iwagakure... well, Onoki is the only one who actually matters. We don't really know much about the village.
Kirigakure is interesting, there's still so much more we don't know about it. Hopefully Kishi will explore more about its past Mizukage.
Kumogakure is awesome, but still not enough. The whole temple thing doesn't even make any sense, but whatever.
Bleach's world is the least developed among the three manga.
And I don't see any problem with One Piece not having any big plot twists. Unlike Naruto or Bleach, it has many different plot lines and happens in many layers. None of them were fully explored, there's still time for that. The plot is revealed little by little.
Just an observation... there were a lot of Naruto and Bleach fans who had switched sides to One Piece, while I have yet to see (there may be some) devoted One Piece fans who turned to Naruto or Bleach. This argument is pretty illogical to say which one is the best as preferences can be pretty subjective but I'm one of those who had been a previous fan of Naruto and Bleach before turning into a 'Piece-tard'. XD
Naruto and Bleach had started out real great. Their initial plots had shown great potential and had easily caught the interest of many. Cool-looking characters, great fighting scenes, these two mangas had pulled the readers into its world through a series of epic arcs. But I guess people just began to expect too much that when the mangaka failed to meet those expectations, interests began to dwindle.
In comparison, One Piece started out real slow that I think most of its readers did not really have any kind of expections on it except for the laughs it delivers. The initial plot is nothing really special - rubber boy wants to travel the world and become Pirate King. But as the story progresses, the world of One Piece slowly takes its form showing conflicts that may be fiction but truly exist in reality - corrupt government, distorted history, crimes, discrimination, rebellion, clash of the ideas of justice, etc. The plot thickens, mysteries unfolds, random people previously introduced began to play major roles, relationships between characters gets connected. I think it made more impact on readers as there was little expection from it at the beginning and it just continues to get better and better. Sure, it's not perfect and it has its dragging moments but the humor just compensates for it.
First impressions on the main characters:
Naruto - He's going to be a badass character
Ichigo - He is a badass character
Luffy - ???? He is... funny... lol
But as the story progresses, the world of One Piece slowly takes its form showing conflicts that may be fiction but truly exist in reality - corrupt government, distorted history, crimes, discrimination, rebellion, clash of the ideas of justice, etc. The plot thickens, mysteries unfolds, random people previously introduced began to play major roles, relationships between characters gets connected.
juUnior, thank you very much for your posts!!! they've said all I've been trying to say all this time!! my conclusion: I didn't like the fact that people said that OP is #1 when Naruto actually deserves that title just as much as OP. I believe that those two are on the same level. None of those are better than the other but instead just as good as the other one.
@esamarie: ahh.... but that happened during Marineford arc, right?? (which was done after Kishi did Pain arc) that's why it's not fair that OP gets so much praise when Naruto beat it to it regarding bringing up those kind of themes.... I feel it's like Oda is copying Kishi which isn't fair IMHO.
@esamarie: ahh.... but that happened during Marineford arc, right?? (which was done after Kishi did Pain arc) that's why it's not fair that OP gets so much praise when Naruto beat it to it regarding bringing up those kind of themes.... I feel it's like Oda is copying Kishi which isn't fair IMHO.
wait wut?
if you refering to corrupt government, one piece already have that even before luffy enter the grandline when shicibukai was first mention- a group of pirate approved by the government. and this is base on real life privateer. then, that kind of theme is mention again in the manga when the world government trying to cover up arabasta and crocodile incident. then at water seven and enies lobby arc, lost history, ohara incident and many more. if you are refering to distorted history, crimes, discrimination, rebellion, clash of the ideas of justice- maybe i missed them when this kind of plot shows up in naruto. please enlighten me
if you're refer to peace theme, i guess i missed them when i read one piece. all i kunderstand from one piece it's more on family bond and heavily about justice where we see 2 kind of justice upholder. if i missed something please once again help me.:
juUnior, thank you very much for your posts!!! they've said all I've been trying to say all this time!! my conclusion: I didn't like the fact that people said that OP is #1 when Naruto actually deserves that title just as much as OP. I believe that those two are on the same level. None of those are better than the other but instead just as good as the other one.
@esamarie: ahh.... but that happened during Marineford arc, right?? (which was done after Kishi did Pain arc) that's why it's not fair that OP gets so much praise when Naruto beat it to it regarding bringing up those kind of themes.... I feel it's like Oda is copying Kishi which isn't fair IMHO.
No, it did not. We found out about the Ancient Kingdom, the Void Century, the secrets the Government is hiding from the world long before Marineford. Discrimination? happened in Shabondy. Rebellion? well, Dragon appeared first on chapter 100, we didn't know about him much back then. And we still don't know about him much, like his motives.
Clash of ideas of justice, it pretty much always has been there.
And I fail to understand how you can say that neither of OP, Naruto are better than each other, when they're clearly not. How can you say that Naruto is as good as OP when, for example, Kishi completely ignores characters, while in One Piece almost every characters gets to shine. Now you only see Naruto and Sasuke. Danzou's characters wasted for no actuall reason other than satisfying Sasuke's hunger for revenge. He was given Mokuton, a powerful Sharigan, a goal to control the Kyuubi and yet all of this went down the toilet. The horrible conclusion of Pain's arc. That's a few of them. Of course, Naruto has its moments, but saying that it's at the top of the shounen world right now is just... I don't know.
if you're refer to peace theme, i guess i missed them when i read one piece. please once again help me
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I hope I can find the time to properly convey my thoughts....
> The only thing which lately came to be huge revelation <even if its not huge revelation in literal sense> would be
