Fall NFL Thread

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

Aren't you forgetting Dick LeBeau? I know assistants can't get into the HOF, but it's sort of a joke that it took him so long to get in as a player considering how good he was. Obviously his coaching career had something to do with it though, why else did it take so damn long?

Well Curtis Martin not being a feared player only lends credence to the thought that the Pro Football HOF shouldn't be compared to the strictness of the MLB HOF. He had great numbers, and that was enough. It also helped that he played almost his entire career in NYC.

I was merely saying that trying to plot out scenario for Draft day trades are a lot more speculative than even mock drafts. The experts usually don't even bother with it. That was all I was saying. Everything you said sounds plausible though.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

Normally draft day trades are impossible to predict. Not this year, not for the number 2 pick. This quarterback class is so thin that any team that wants one in the first round has to move ahead of Cleveland. Nor is the top of this quarterback class normal, Andrew Luck and Robert Griffen are among the best prospects I have seen at quarterback. I am not surprised that Griffen is generating the amount o interest he is, the Rams putting the second pick up for auction was inevitable. I expect a trade as early as this week, no later than the first day teams can talk to free agents. As soon as teams can talk to Peyton, Orton, and Matt Flynn the Rams lose leverage. From what I understand the Rams and Dolphins have already put out feelers. According to Mike Jones at the Washington Post the Redskins are prepared to send two first round picks and two additional picks to be negotiated. If the Browns are willing to part with both of their first round picks this year then RG3 is theirs for the taking. If not he is going to be a Redskin. I am already fanboying, already have my hopes up, and will be butthurt if he ends up in Cleveland.

If Cleveland stays at number 4 I am curious what they will do. Taking a wide receiver early is not Holmgrens style ether and the logical pick is Justin Blackmon. I would not be surprised if they trade down again. Any team who wants Blackmon will have to trade with Cleveland, otherwise he is gone by the sixth pick (whether Washington has it or not). Any team that wants Morris Claibourne will be contacting Cleveland too. There is no guarantee Tampa takes him at 5, but there is a very good chance. Either way, Cleveland can move down, stockpile picks and select Trent Richardson or a pass rusher later in the top ten.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

I saw Jason La Canfora's mock draft on the NFL Network this morning...was surprised. He had WAS trading up to number two to draft Griffin III and Cleveland taking Trent Richarson at number 4. The thing that surprised me is that he also had St. Louis trading back AGAIN and Seattle moving up to their spot and taking Ryan Tannehill at number 6 ...I was like, what?

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

I saw his top ten. Not a fan. He is a great reporter but that mock draft was not great. There are a lot of picks I would argue with. Coples had a lousy 2011 season, a great athlete but a risky pick. I expect him to go high but not the first pass rusher off the board. Melvin Ingrim and Nick Perry had better seasons and are as athletic, I think that one of the two will be the first DE/rush linebaker selected. Trent Richardson deserves to be the 4th pick, it is not out of the question, but I still doubt it. Holmgren is savvy enough to trade with a team looking to draft Justin Blackmon, who I do not think Tampa will draft. Not out of the question but Tampa is desperate for a cornerback and the best in the draft is still on the board when they pick. I also do not like the pick for Miami. A lot of mock drafts have them selecting Riley Reiff. I don't get it, who invests a first round pick in right and left tackle? I think he gave them Reiff because right tackle is a need, not because he is the best player in the board. I expect a corner or pass rusher, depending on who is available.

Under different circumstances I could see a team trading into the top ten to grab Tannehill. For better or worse there are always quarterbacks drafted much higher than expected when the college season ends. Flacco is a good example, Christian Ponder comes to mind too. But they both had amazing off seasons, generating a lot of buzz at the Senior Bowl and combine. Tannehill missed both events with an injury. I can imagine a team trading back into the first round to get him, but not into the top ten. If he is drafted in the first round at all I expect it will be in the 20's.

---------- Post added at 11:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 PM ----------

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/user_mock_drafts.cfm?mock_id=9681

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

Wow, so you have the Center from Wisconsin dropping out of the first round? Did something happen at the Combine? Because I haven't really been following it. I can see us drafting an Inside Linebacker, but it's not like we're completely devoid of talent behind Ray Lewis. Jameel McClain and Danelle Ellerbe are decent players. They both started in Lewis' absence due to injury this year and the defense didn't really miss and beat.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

Konz could only lift 18 reps at the combine, an awful showing for a dude that big. Centers generally do not go in the first round unless they are outstanding prospects, like Pouncy from the Steelers. Between the poor combine, a dislocated ankle late in 2011, and low positional value I think he will drop out of the first round. I expect the Ravens will take the best player available, they rarely reach to meet need. I happen to like Kendricks, a little undersized but he seems like the type of player the Ravens would like. They really need an outside linebacker opposite Suggs but I do not think anyone worth a first round pick will be available when they pick.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

Konz could only lift 18 reps at the combine, an awful showing for a dude that big. Centers generally do not go in the first round unless they are outstanding prospects, like Pouncy from the Steelers. Between the poor combine, a dislocated ankle late in 2011, and low positional value I think he will drop out of the first round. I expect the Ravens will take the best player available, they rarely reach to meet need. I happen to like Kendricks, a little undersized but he seems like the type of player the Ravens would like. They really need an outside linebacker opposite Suggs but I do not think anyone worth a first round pick will be available when they pick.

Forget how big he is, that's an awful showing for any Offensive Linemen...any Linemen really. I'm sure we'll have scouts checking him out at his Pro Day though. Matt Birk apparently isn't retiring, so who knows.

The cupboard is sort of bare as far as someone who can rush the passer from the LB spot opposite of Suggs. I like Paul Kruger, but he was drafted with the expectation that he'd replace Jarret Johnson, but he really only excels consistently at rushing the passer. He isn't quite the all-around player yet. Pernell McPhee had a really decent rookie year with 6 sacks, but he's not that hybrid like Suggs is. He's more of what Trevor Pryce was for us the first few years. Well regardless of how our young pass rushers turn out, you can never have too many of them. Just look at the Giants.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

If he were a tackle it would not matter as much. Someone always reaches for a tackle late in the first round. Riley Reiff did not have a great combine but he'll probably go somewhere in top 15 anyway.

Maybe the Ravens go after Mario Williams. 6"8', almost 300 pounds and can play with his hand down or as a 34 Linebacker. Pretty ridiculous. I doubt the Ravens will spend that type of money on a free agent but he'd be a great fit. Honestly, I'm kind of expecting the Ravens to trade out of the first round this year. What's really the difference between drafting 29th in the first round and a high second round pick? Trading up is not out of the question either, if the right player is available mid-round. The Ravens could be a wild card this year.

Nobody evaluates 43 defensive ends like the Giants. How long have they been doing this for now? They always seem to find new guys and always have a great rotation.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

If he were a tackle it would not matter as much. Someone always reaches for a tackle late in the first round. Riley Reiff did not have a great combine but he'll probably go somewhere in top 15 anyway.

Maybe the Ravens go after Mario Williams. 6"8', almost 300 pounds and can play with his hand down or as a 34 Linebacker. Pretty ridiculous. I doubt the Ravens will spend that type of money on a free agent but he'd be a great fit. Honestly, I'm kind of expecting the Ravens to trade out of the first round this year. What's really the difference between drafting 29th in the first round and a high second round pick? Trading up is not out of the question either, if the right player is available mid-round. The Ravens could be a wild card this year.

Nobody evaluates 43 defensive ends like the Giants. How long have they been doing this for now? They always seem to find new guys and always have a great rotation.

Justin Blackmon would be dreamy in the Black and Purple, but the Ravens have only ever traded up for QBs (Boller and Flacco) and Flacco wasn't even up too many places. After getting burned on Boller I'm not sure Newsome will ever trade next year's first rounder again.

Mario Williams isn't that big and I can't see us having the cap space to bring in a player with that big a salary in free agency. The Ravens never do that. Too much money tied up in Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, Ngata, and Suggs to spend that much more on the defensive side of the ball.

I had thought Ben Grubbs was the odd man out this year, but apparently they're still trying to negotiate a contract with him. After giving that contract to Yanda, I can't see having that much money tied up in Guards, especially when the Left Tackle position down the road is still a big question mark. Rice will probably be franchised tagged and might not get a new deal before this season. He's essential to our offense, but he's still just a running back.

When they drafted JPP, I couldn't understand it. They already had Tuck and Umenyiora and Kiwanuka...it's crazy.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

It appears Mario Williams has shrank

Blackmon would look good with the Ravens, though he may be on the team already, depending on who's opinion you read. He may end up being the next Anquon Boldin, a great underneath receiver who struggles to separate deep. So say his critics, anyway. Having watched him torch Texas A&M and Stanford I happen to be a believer. While I would not compare him to A.J. Green as a prospect, I think he will be a beast in the NFL. Great hands, great route runner, and hard to tackle. Personally I think he plays fast enough to be a deep threat but my opinion seems to be in the minority. He is going to destroy DB's over the middle, especially on intermediate routes. Put him on a team with an offense similar to Green Bay or New Orleans, or a west coast offense team, and he will be unstoppable.

If it makes you feel any better the Ravens will never find a left tackle in free agency. Good ones never hit the open market. They can pay Grubb's all he wants cause they'll be paying your LT of the future rookie money.

I questioned the JPP pick too. Proved me wrong, kid is a beast. I remember he was the talk of the off season two years ago, doing standing back flips on the South Florida football field. The Giants are another team that draft the best player, even if they are deep at that position.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

LOL...I'd imagine you were just going by what color commentators said. That or you were thinking he was a professional wrestler

For some reason I thought Blackmon was bigger than 6'1", he certainly looked like he was. Him not running the 40-yard dash was probably more about that than his injury.

Well a franchise LT no, you have a point there. I guess Oher believes he can still play LT...or at least his agent does. McKinnie had some good games, and some not so good ones, he was better when Grubbs was in there. He's not a long-term solution though.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

6"1' is pretty good size for a receiver. While the trend is for bigger receivers I do believe 6"1' should be right around the average. The big concern with him is that he is going to be a possession receiver with no deep speed. A bad 40 could really hurt him, if his hamy or whatever was even slightly sore he probably did not even want to take a chance. A 4.6 or higher could knock him down a few spots (or more), warranted or not.

I am shocked Mickinnie stayed in shape all year. That reminds me: Jonathan Ogden will be eligible for the Hall of Fame in 2013. A first ballot hall of famer without a doubt and arguably the greatest LT to ever play.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

6"1' is pretty good size for a receiver. While the trend is for bigger receivers I do believe 6"1' should be right around the average. The big concern with him is that he is going to be a possession receiver with no deep speed. A bad 40 could really hurt him, if his hamy or whatever was even slightly sore he probably did not even want to take a chance. A 4.6 or higher could knock him down a few spots (or more), warranted or not.

I am shocked Mickinnie stayed in shape all year. That reminds me: Jonathan Ogden will be eligible for the Hall of Fame in 2013. A first ballot hall of famer without a doubt and arguably the greatest LT to ever play.

I think there were a lot of exaggerations about his condition coming out of Vikings camp for whatever reason.

Yeah without a doubt. It's hard to measure greatness really at the OL position, but he's certainly among the best. The first lifetime Raven to go in as well.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

It could have been a smokescreen on the Vikings part. Most experts predict that the Rams will take him 2nd, if they do not trade. The Vikings may have wanted to make him look undesirable, to further convince St. Louis to trade down. They would be crazy to take Blackmon over Matt Kalil. Considering how inept Minnesota's front office is that is a real possibility.

Without states it is hard to judge lineman, I guess that is why so few are in the Hall. But there is no question Ogden is one of the greatest ever. Isn't it fitting: the first two first round draft picks the Ravens made after moving to Baltimore are both Canton bound. Jonathon Ogden next year, Ray Lewis as soon as he is eligible.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

I was talking about McKinnie's conditioning Wow, you're thinking so draft-ish

Isn't it fitting? As a Ravens fan yes...and it's quite the feat, but I wouldn't have thought you'd feel the same. The dislike is one-sided I suppose.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

I thought you were talking about Blackmon

They may have been overstating Mckinnie's weight but he has a history of being out of shape, so I'm not sure.

It is a pretty one sided rivalry. There really is no animosity here towards Baltimore. A lot of people, myself included, have gone to school in the Baltimore or worked in the Baltimore area. The Redskins have been bad so long that the Ravens have made pretty big inroads among capitol area sports fan. I know a lot of people who root for the Ravens as the Maryland team, rather than the Redskins. The Orioles still have fans here too, though all but the most dedicated have switched to the Nationals. I have nothing against the Ravens, I'll even root for them as long as they are not playing the Redskins. I loathe the Orioles though, mostly because they blocked DC from getting a new team for so long.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

I thought you were talking about Blackmon

They may have been overstating Mckinnie's weight but he has a history of being out of shape, so I'm not sure.

It is a pretty one sided rivalry. There really is no animosity here towards Baltimore. A lot of people, myself included, have gone to school in the Baltimore or worked in the Baltimore area. The Redskins have been bad so long that the Ravens have made pretty big inroads among capitol area sports fan. I know a lot of people who root for the Ravens as the Maryland team, rather than the Redskins. The Orioles still have fans here too, though all but the most dedicated have switched to the Nationals. I have nothing against the Ravens, I'll even root for them as long as they are not playing the Redskins. I loathe the Orioles though, mostly because they blocked DC from getting a new team for so long.

Well, I feel the same way about Jack Kent Cook's acts of preventing us from getting a team here. The Nationals are already better run than the Orioles have been in the last 15 years. Soon they'll probably sue Angelos over the TV rights deal he got from MLB to allow a DC team.

Don't loathe the Orioles, loathe Peter Angelos. Then you'd be right inline with the majority of Baltimoreans anyway.

---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 PM ----------

And I don't hate the Redskins...their fan's misery is somewhat amusing to me. There's no real reason to hate them, more of a reason to pity them really.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

It is weird to think that a 19 was born after the last Redskins Super Bowl. The Redskins can't even get sympathy for being bad either. We are like the Yankees in the 80's, football fans revel in our mediocrity. The Cowboys and Redskins are not exactly lovable franchises, I suppose.

The Redskins have a proud tradition of preventing other cities from being awarded teams. The only reason the AFL existed was Clark Griffith prevented Lamar Hunt from being awarded a franchise in Dallas. The prospective owners of the Cowboys had to hold "Hail to the Redskins" hostage in order to be awarded an expansion team in 1960. At the time the Redskins were the team of the south. I'm not sure how much power Jack Kent Cooke had in keeping a team out of Baltimore though. By the time the Colts left the NFL was to powerful for one owner to hold a city hostage. Baltimore had to wait twelve years for a team, a long time but not as long as DC had to wait for baseball to come back. If I am not mistaken the only expansion teams awarded in that time were Carolina and Jacksonville, both a year or two before the Ravens moved to Baltimore.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

It had more to do with JKC's influence with Paul Tagliabue, who is a Georgetown Alum and practiced law there.

I wasn't trying to make a comparison in lengths really, just to explain some of the hate we Baltimorons feel. William Donald Schaefer attempted to bring the Rams here as well. The fact that he had to do that is a joke in my opinion, as well as Carolina and Jacksonville getting teams before us, but I digress.

---------- Post added at 08:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 PM ----------

And I think the Cowboys have much more ridicule thrown their way that the Redskins.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

The Cowboys are at least relevant, the Redskins are afterthoughts nationally. While they have not really won anything that matters recently they at least have divisive figures like Jerry and Romo to generate headlines. The Redskins are incredibly anonymous, the reason why everyone here wants RG3 so badly. We need a charismatic, high profile, face of the franchise type of player. The Cowboys were the higher profile franchise in the first place, the NFL equivalent of Duke or the Yankees, America's self styled team.