Discussion NNT Pair Battle Royale

Undina

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Elizabeth's Powers aren't exactly useful for a Battle against People that harbor no hatred or Evil inside them,her best feats from my PoV. are her healing feats and saving Diane,Derriere and Monspeet from their respective Troubles. She can use Ark but i doubt an Ark of Elizabeth takes down Escanor nor Merlin given the Perfect Cube. Other than Demon King Meliodas nobody has broken that one yet,and i doubt she can. Merlin has multiple spells up her sleeve so while in the Perfect Cube she could cast a Chrono Coffin onto Elizabeth freezing her movements and by extension make her unable to battle.

Escanor defeated Meliodas on Panel. If Merlin pulls the scenario i just mentioned she can aid Escanor in his Clash and it'll be over.
Elizabeth's powers are Ark based, so far, starting from basic Ark which burns things and people, and Darkness in essence, it doesn't essentially care about emotions, it cares about how they disrupt natural state. Hikari Are eliminates corruption, if we think better of it, PC as a demonic skill should count as that as well, corruption and disruption of natural space. Given her position in the clan and the claims of both Mael and Sariel(the latter about her nerfed form's Ark), nay, even Ludo's reaction as Elizabeth simply came up against the Indura, her full power Ark should burn as all hell by default; what saved Maelstarossa from any burns whatsoever was her nerfed state + his goddess body's resistance(natural, in their case, as their bodies channel the ability); Merlin and Escanor don't have that luxury.
As I said, Escanor should be just as vulnerable to Elizabeth's Ark attacks as he was to Mel's stabs and attacks, or far more, since unlike canon AM Mel, Elizabeth would take Escanor seriously from the beginning, and Escanor is being damaged from within by Sunshine as well. He's human, unlike the rest.
And The One's "invincibility" has long since been put to rest(do we know if Chandler never taught Mel True Night?); cause on panel we only saw AM Mel being a fool in his confrontation with Escanor.

Elizabeth would know about The One and inform AM Mel as well, so, the "on panel" defeat doesn't matter anymore, as the 2 would clearly know they have to dodge his attacks for the 1 minute(if he manages to get there).

I aready explained that it suffices for Mel to fight to take down the PCs, you didn't give any scenario where Elizabeth would truly be left alone going against any PC. Even if she were temporarily isolated in one, do you have any guaranty her purifying skills don't work on it?! Given also the serious power gap between herself and let's say, maybe a 60-70k PL Merlin(now I'm hyping even her power for the sake of the argument).
PC, even slapped with Infinity has been proven faulty when big power gaps come into play, that's why I'm so persistent with AM Mel and Elizabeth being 100k+ or even more in PL, that's why I'm bringing up how DK meliodas broke them with some casual tentacle flail;because while Merlin has some resistance, the huge power gaps often bring out the flaws to her tricks as well.

Meliodas and Elizabeth get to start off very strongly, while Escanor(with AM Mel ignorant of the nature of Sunshine, for some reason) had and still has to strenously get to 100k+. And if it were so simple for Merlin to simply cast individual PCs on very powerful beings and stall it all till The One came out; then she would've tried that solo on AM Mel, without jailing Escanor in as well, while the gang went away to a safe distance till The One neutralised AM Mel; canon disagrees on PC being even nearly as perfect as it was presumed in the beginning when they had to deal with 30k PL characters.
 
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Darky

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If we do not include plot armor, Merlin and Escanor win the BR, first because Escanor is a good tank and DPS, while Merlin can buff him and debuff the enemy duo.
Against Meliodas and Elizabeth, it wouldn't be that hard, as their magic are the opposite/incompatible.
Against, Ban and Elaine, Elaine gets wrecked easily by Escanor, so they lose.
Against King and Diane, the latter might be a problem, as she can tank attack while King heals her, and attacks Merlin/Escanor.But Merlin has surely prepared tactics against King and his SS
 
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Undina

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You dont know that they can break Perfect Cube at all. Even if Mel can break the PC Merlin placed on him, Merlin could just cast another from the safety of the other Perfect Cube she is containing herself, Escanor and Eli in. Or she could just double layer Meliodas and replace as needed. Or go for Mel first.

For Elizabeth's ark barrier, we dont even know if she has one and if she does, we dont know how much defense it has. So you can wait as long as you want, but i'm not really seeing a reason to prove Escanor can penetrate something that has yet to exist.
Merlin's MP is infinite, far beyond Eli's. And as i said, even if Eli can heal through PC, which was never decided, Merlin could still easily prevent it by blocking Elizabeth's view of Meliodas. All Merlin would have to do is place an Icicle Castle on top of PC and Eli would be blind to the whole battle.

No, there is nothing in given canon saying Elizabeth is not vulnerable to any of the 4 elements, Elizabeth doesnt just default to immune to them. Everyone is vulnerable to the 4 elements until they prove they are immune. Double Impact should hit Elizabeth even harder than Chandler and Cusack.

Not Merlin's only tricks, but stalling is a brilliant tactic for Merlin with Escanor on her team. I dont know what time of the day this battle starts, but stalling alone could win this fight. Also if this is a tournament then Merlin will know its coming and be able to prepare specifically for Mel and Eli like she did for Chandler and Cusack. Escanor will be able to prepare as well, which may be even more dangerous.
I do know they can, the physical breaking claimed by Galand was proven by DK Meliodas and reinforced by Merlin's own doubt at letting AM Mel alone in one to exhaust himself while persuading Escanor(which she clearly can) that that was not the right time to test his power on the midget and he should save it for the truly bad opponents.

We don't know a great deal of many things, but an Ark barrier is a logical basic employment for defense of the element against powerful opponents, just as PC comes in handy for the demonic skills users. We don't know the actual defense level of PC either, we don't know the power gap between a serious AM Mel and Dayscanor or Merlin, nor between full power Elizabeth and the same people, yet you dare claim PC would resist Mel's direct attacks till The One came around. And you also assume The One would still manage to get his attacks in on an Elizabeth and Meliodas taking Escanor seriously from the start and aware of its 1 minute/day existence. AM Mel's downfall in canon was in not knocking Escanor out before noon(he'd know better in this case)
What is this BS about Merlin blocking Elizabeth's view of Mel?! Since when "view" is part of enabling healing?! Are you saying Elizabeth was looking at each and every person she wave healed against Hendy?! Even those behind the walls of the city?! Or in the S&D fight with the fodders?! This is getting ridiculous:XD
Merlin's MP is "infinite"?!?!?! Are you going debate-suicidal?!? it's the same as saying that Escanor's power being "immeasurable" makes it infinite as well:disappoint
WTH is even this "blind" crap?!
EDIT: I just realised that goddesses, even small fries like Jelamet, similarly to Grayroad, have skills that can literally take away the senses, which should stall Merlin/Escanor/The One till Merlin managed to dispel that .

There is nothing in canon saying Elizabeth is vulnerable to any of the 4 elements, instead there is implication to her more likely invulnerability due to genetic heritage. My theory is by canon more likely to be proven right and your counter is getting more redundant with each repeat.

Stalling doesn't win anything, if The One gets avoided then defeated by serious AM Mel and Elizabeth. I'm not even going clearly into the realm of imaginary with overlayered Ark shields, but you go on exaggerating Merlin's abilities in doing that with PC, when she clearly has limits to using it as well. If it were possible for Merlin to simply cast PCs and stall, then the AT would've been able to at least temporarily get Chandler busy with AC-ing her spammed ones on him and his teammates:facepalm. She never even tried.

It's alot easier to down Merlin and Escanor with their faultier resistance(than Mel and Ellie's) and lack of healing skills, proven faulty shields(PC can be physically taken down, it's simply not guaranteed to be as fast as DK Meliodas', with AM Mel's KG). What is your guarantee against Ice Castle being swiftly melted with Ark from within?! What is your guaranty PC can't be purified with Elizabeth's Goddess skills?

How would Merlin and Escanor prepare for Elizabeth who not only has a goddess body perfect at channeling her power unlike Dayscanor who gets shafted even by his Grace?! Or unlike Merlin who may even be perceived by Ellie's Ark as impure/corrupted and far more strongly burned than it would be natural for her people?! Her blessing against GC powers only protects her from brainwashing, something Elizabeth doesn't rely on with serious fighters anyway.
 
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MrSchmitty7

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If I recall chandler and Cusack aren’t vulnerable to any elements. They just have the least amount of resistance to lightning and wind respectively.
 

Undina

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If I recall chandler and Cusack aren’t vulnerable to any elements. They just have the least amount of resistance to lightning and wind respectively.
Yes, but that makes them more vulnerable to those attacks and part 2 of DI showed how they took more and more damage from hidden elemental traps since they both did damage and lowered the resistance to them even more, for the next hidden attacks/bombs charged with the same elements.
 

Seven777

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I do know they can, the physical breaking claimed by Galand was proven by DK Meliodas and reinforced by Merlin's own doubt at letting AM Mel alone in one to exhaust himself while persuading Escanor(which she clearly can) that that was not the right time to test his power on the midget and he should save it for the truly bad opponents.

We don't know a great deal of many things, but an Ark barrier is a logical basic employment for defense of the element against powerful opponents, just as PC comes in handy for the demonic skills users. We don't know the actual defense level of PC either, we don't know the power gap between a serious AM Mel and Dayscanor or Merlin, nor between full power Elizabeth and the same people, yet you dare claim PC would resist Mel's direct attacks till The One came around. And you also assume The One would still manage to get his attacks in on an Elizabeth and Meliodas taking Escanor seriously from the start and aware of its 1 minute/day existence. AM Mel's downfall in canon was in not knocking Escanor out before noon(he'd know better in this case)
What is this BS about Merlin blocking Elizabeth's view of Mel?! Since when "view" is part of enabling healing?! Are you saying Elizabeth was looking at each and every person she wave healed against Hendy?! Even those behind the walls of the city?! Or in the S&D fight with the fodders?! This is getting ridiculous:XD
Merlin's MP is "infinite"?!?!?! Are you going debate-suicidal?!? it's the same as saying that Escanor's power being "immeasurable" makes it infinite as well:disappoint
WTH is even this "blind" crap?!

There is nothing in canon saying Elizabeth is vulnerable to any of the 4 elements, instead there is implication to her more likely invulnerability due to genetic heritage. My theory is by canon more likely to be proven right and your counter is getting more redundant with each repeat.

Stalling doesn't win anything, if The One gets avoided then defeated by serious AM Mel and Elizabeth. I'm not even going clearly into the realm of imaginary with overlayered Ark shields, but you go on exaggerating Merlin's abilities in doing that with PC, when she clearly has limits to using it as well. If it were possible for Merlin to simply cast PCs and stall, then the AT would've been able to at least temporarily get Chandler busy with AC-ing her spammed ones on him and his teammates:facepalm. She never even tried.

It's alot easier to down Merlin and Escanor with their faultier resistance(than Mel and Ellie's) and lack of healing skills, proven faulty shields(PC can be physically taken down, it's simply not guaranteed to be as fast as DK Meliodas', with AM Mel's KG). What is your guarantee against Ice Castle being swiftly melted with Ark from within?! What is your guaranty PC can't be purified with Elizabeth's Goddess skills?

How would Merlin and Escanor prepare for Elizabeth who not only has a goddess body perfect at channeling her power unlike Dayscanor who gets shafted even by his Grace?! Or unlike Merlin who may even be perceived by Ellie's Ark as impure/corrupted and far more strongly burned than it would be natural for her people?! Her blessing against GC powers only protects her from brainwashing, something Elizabeth doesn't rely on with serious fighters anyway.
You know its possible to break it, not that Meliodas can do it. Escanor made his choice, Merlin told him not to initially. She could have persuaded him, but in the end that was the right choice too. Merlin also intended to encase Mel in perfect cube after the fight was done, and did so.
Yes I dare claim PC could resist Mel, because PC actually exists. Ark barrier might be in Eli's arsenal, might not, not every demon has Perfect Cube.
Right, blocking visibility wouldnt be an option then, no need to be rude about it.
Yes, Merlin's MP is infinite, no i'm not committing "debate suicide", whatever that is. It was confirmed by Chandler that she has Infinite magic power.
No, you're theory has no basis whatsoever. Even the SD herself isnt by default invulnerable to all elements, let alone Elizabeth. You saying Elizabeth is immune to Icicle Castle? Ocean? Tornado? Wrath of Enlil? Cruel Sun? Elizabeth doesnt default to immune to elements, no one does, this is wank to the highest degree.
My use of Perfect Cube is better than all your made up properties for ark. Extra damage on Merlin lol? Random as hell.
Stalling guarantees victory. Toss Eli and Mel in separate Perfect Cubes and send the One after them one at a time, easy win.
For one, Merlin could prepare a Sunshine bomb, for another Escanor could charge Rhitta with The One the day before.
Dont know why you are bringing up Dayscanor getting shafted by his grace, its never actually hindered him in combat.
 

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It's either King and Diane or Escanor and Merlin( but more because of Merlin rather than Escanor), the former more than the latter . Escanor himself isn't such a threat now unless he is in his prime. King's feats put him above AM Meliodas, he can destroy any of the fighters there with ease one on one(besides The One).

Even assuming that Ban is currently at his level(I think he is), Elaine is far too weak.
 

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Yes, but that makes them more vulnerable to those attacks and part 2 of DI showed how they took more and more damage from hidden elemental traps since they both did damage and lowered the resistance to them even more, for the next hidden attacks/bombs charged with the same elements.
Double impact casts a separate spell that lowers resistance any time you get hit by anything. After Merlin saw what they had the least resistance to she only made spells of lightning and wind. It’s not really a vulnerability when you’re not naturally weak to them. A fire spell would’ve done the exact same thing as a wind/lightning spell. It just would’ve taken longer to effect their bodies
 

eefrit

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What do you mean? 3C Estarossa? She didnt really get a chance to boost anyone, but her dance did a pretty good job during her, King and Gowther's trio attack against 4C Mael.
Against 4C Mael. Her power was only confirmed to currently only reach around 50k with the dance in the Pair Sin Book. So at the most, King's power was probably around 90k or so.

If he couldn't, they may have just as well locked him up all alone in the PC and left him there to bang himself on the walls till he exhausted himself and passed out, it's not like Escanor defeating him at the cost of plenty of his health fixed any of his emotional problems and it was pretty clear Merlin had already figured as much even before the fight; are you telling me she was purposefully wasteful with their meagre resources?!
Yeah, I'm sure they could've spared the time. It's not like any of them were going to die in three days, lol. Seriously though, there is no telling how long it would've taken for that to happen, if it happened at all. I assume Mel knows the power of PC, so I doubt he'd waste power to break out of it. Of course, another possible solution would've been for Merlin to amplify Gowther's power to knock Mel out, but I guess, in story, things were happening fast and they still had to deal with Merascylla, so Merlin opted for Escanor's plan.
 

OtakuFreak

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I don't know why there is any debate about this? Meliodas & Elizabeth take it home and have the hardest trouble against Merlin/Escanor but will still win.

Assuming this is Prime Meliodas and Goddess Elizabeth at a state of being bloodthirsty and not hesitant to hurt their sis-sis then they win quite easily.

Escanors only chance to hold up against the pair is through "The One" but this quite the wild card since he has only a minute period with it against someone who's familiar with the blessings strength (Elizabeth being the Supreme Deity daughter should have knowledge about it). Hell, Escanor might not even he able to reach his peak form considering Assault Meliodas at 142k could've easily killed him at any moment prior to noon and he's weaker than Prime Meliodas.. and Mel is going for the kill here.

Elizabeth's ark is second to only the Supreme Deity and is easily the most powerful magic in raw power amongst any of the characters in the series with exception to the Gods and near-noon/noon Mael (doubtful) and as such she would be fully capable of defeating Merlin in a magic duel. Unless Merlin is able to hit Elizabeth with a double impact and have the opportunity to set up the trap to focus on her weakest elemental resistance, she doesn't really have a chance TBH.

Elizabeth & Meliodas have superior self-healing and power to the duo and will only be challenged or defeated by "The One" or Merlin's trap which are inconsistent and unreliable methods of success.

As for King & Diane - since Diane is not really an issue, this comes down to Eliz/Mel ganging up against King - which they take it easily.

Even individually, they both have the capability of taking King, though it wouldn't be easy (and vice-versa)

@Seven777 - It's a safe assumption to make that Elizabeth is fully capable of creating ark barriers for defensive purposes. Her ark has been praised by even Ludoshel; has higher feats in power & versatility and given her heritage I don't see why she shouldn't have access to superior ark abilities.
 

T25

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You know it’s a lot easier to make a case for Merlin and escanor as compared to them, we know nothing of Mel and especially Eli’s abilities at all. Hard to make an accurate assessment of a matchup if info on the extent of half of the matchup’s abilities is unknown.

Seraphs first sentence on the usefulness of elis powers reflects this quite well. We know that Eli has the ability to use ark with the intent to harm but we only have implications as to the extent of the amount of harm she can inflict. She actively chooses not to harm so we’ve seen nothing of her capability to harm and were only made aware of some significant degree of raw power she held in the past due to the only showing of the original Eli’s power at all in this manga so far. We have nothing concrete except for some greater degree of info on her healing prowess.

The original eli and original Mel are matched up with two others in a case where we have much info on the two others and a bare minimum of info, by comparison, of their opponents. The knowledge we have of Mel and Eli’s abilities in the past is still, roughly, in the phase of the intro arc in where we didn’t know anything about their abilities. Far more so for Eli than mel. The only evidence available is an inherently inaccurate representation of the originals capabilities. Merlin and escanor on the other hand don’t have this issue of info.

Of course, there is nothing to do but to work within your means but having to resort to implication and possibility just to make an argument - because you weren’t given evidence at this point in time - won’t hold weight in an argument that seeks answers immediatly when in the face of outright evidence for the opposing side. Whatifs are of limited use in this type of discussion but you can’t exactly make an accurate assessment when evidence hasnt even been procured to bring to the table before you find yourself sitting at the judges throne.

Just my thoughts.
 

Undina

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Against 4C Mael. Her power was only confirmed to currently only reach around 50k with the dance in the Pair Sin Book. So at the most, King's power was probably around 90k or so.



Yeah, I'm sure they could've spared the time. It's not like any of them were going to die in three days, lol. Seriously though, there is no telling how long it would've taken for that to happen, if it happened at all. I assume Mel knows the power of PC, so I doubt he'd waste power to break out of it. Of course, another possible solution would've been for Merlin to amplify Gowther's power to knock Mel out, but I guess, in story, things were happening fast and they still had to deal with Merascylla, so Merlin opted for Escanor's plan.
I'm sorry, but that first part is a hypocritical remark. Merlin had the time to waste by letting Escanor have his way while they stood around and watched him burn himself out along with Mel. If Meliodas couldn't break out of PC, then that means, as I pointed out earlier, that they could've saved Escanor's power and health for assuming risks later on. They were able to deal with Melascula, no sweat, even without Escanor or Mel(again, Escanor's power or at least health could've been spared for bigger fish, they could've still done that while letting Mel bang himself into exhaustion and passing out). Who said they had to wait on Mel to do something about Elizabeth's curse? Merlin seemed already aware they'd lost him as an ally so wasting time and scarce resources to immobilise him and still take him along doesn't seem mindful at all of Elizabeth's curse so I'm not buying it. For someone 3000+ years old, she made some very shody choices then and there and I'm sticking by this opinion.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Double impact casts a separate spell that lowers resistance any time you get hit by anything. After Merlin saw what they had the least resistance to she only made spells of lightning and wind. It’s not really a vulnerability when you’re not naturally weak to them. A fire spell would’ve done the exact same thing as a wind/lightning spell. It just would’ve taken longer to effect their bodies
The very line about them having lower resistance to X and Y elements directly means those points are chinks in their armors that can be worked into vulnerabilities and that is exactly what Merlin did. The whole point of the argument is the likelyhood that Elizabeth has or hasn't got low resistance in any of the 4 elements, and Merlin specifically addressed the 4 elements, which she'd been using in other spells as well, IIRC. That strongly implies that's about as much as she can influence, not Light or Darkness. Now, do tell me, when and where was it ever implied or pointed out that Elizabeth has low resistance in any of those elements? Doesn't that make the supposition that DI is usable on her a complete, 100% "what if"?! How about the opposite? Isn't she the daughter of a physical god who commands said elements? Isn't it more likely for Elizabeth to have instead inherited natural affinity with all the elements her mother commands and therefore, they're not the most plausible chinks in Elizabeth's "armor"?!
 
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MrSchmitty7

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The very line about them having lower resistance to X and Y elements directly means those points are chinks in their armors that can be worked into vulnerabilities and that is exactly what Merlin did. The whole point of the argument is the likelyhood that Elizabeth has or hasn't got low resistance in any of the 4 elements, and Merlin specifically addressed the 4 elements, which she'd been using in other spells as well, IIRC. That strongly implies that's about as much as she can influence, not Light or Darkness. Now, do tell me, when and where was it ever implied or pointed out that Elizabeth has low resistance in any of those elements? Doesn't that make the supposition that DI is usable on her a complete, 100% "what if"?! How about the opposite? Isn't she the daughter of a physical god who commands said elements? Isn't it more likely for Elizabeth to have instead inherited natural affinity with all the elements her mother commands and therefore, they're not the most plausible chinks in Elizabeth's "armor"?!
That’s the problem though. They don’t have low resistance to it. It’s just that compared to every other element their bodies have slightly less resistance. It’s the same way how some people have an easier time dealing with spicy food than other people do. Or how other people have higher resistances to pain. That doesn’t mean that those with a lesser pain tolerance have a specific weakness

As to what element Elizabeth is least resistant to, we don’t know yet because the spell has never been cast on her. Does she have one though, yes. Why else would Merlin spend minutes upon minutes setting up this plan if there was a chance that it could fail. Surely she didn’t win this match by mere chance

Less resistance doesn’t equal a weakness. Breastplates have more resistance to war hammers than gauntlets do, but no one suggests that every gauntlet made was made with a weakness. And speaking of armor, armor is effective at blocking swords but less at war hammers. That doesn’t mean the armor has a weak spot
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Also message from another

"I dont know what is going on here. BUT. Merlin used double impact to find out which element was they weaker too. THEY WERE STILL STRONG TO IT. She then on the second wave lowered their resistance so that SIMPLE BASIC LEVEL ONE LIGHTNING AND WIND SPELLS BEATED THEM TO A PULP. Thats what was great about it, she completely humiliated the top tier demons"
“She did all that and gave them a weakness”

Love, Eternita

#DontShootTheMessenger
 

Undina

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You know its possible to break it, not that Meliodas can do it. Escanor made his choice, Merlin told him not to initially. She could have persuaded him, but in the end that was the right choice too. Merlin also intended to encase Mel in perfect cube after the fight was done, and did so.
Yes I dare claim PC could resist Mel, because PC actually exists. Ark barrier might be in Eli's arsenal, might not, not every demon has Perfect Cube.
Right, blocking visibility wouldnt be an option then, no need to be rude about it.
Yes, Merlin's MP is infinite, no i'm not committing "debate suicide", whatever that is. It was confirmed by Chandler that she has Infinite magic power.
No, you're theory has no basis whatsoever. Even the SD herself isnt by default invulnerable to all elements, let alone Elizabeth. You saying Elizabeth is immune to Icicle Castle? Ocean? Tornado? Wrath of Enlil? Cruel Sun? Elizabeth doesnt default to immune to elements, no one does, this is wank to the highest degree.
My use of Perfect Cube is better than all your made up properties for ark. Extra damage on Merlin lol? Random as hell.
Stalling guarantees victory. Toss Eli and Mel in separate Perfect Cubes and send the One after them one at a time, easy win.
For one, Merlin could prepare a Sunshine bomb, for another Escanor could charge Rhitta with The One the day before.
Dont know why you are bringing up Dayscanor getting shafted by his grace, its never actually hindered him in combat.
Merlin letting Escanor waste precious time with his decision, which wasn't good at all since it:
a) wasted more of their time;
b) got him more vulnerable to Sunshine than before,
is what tells me AM Mel can break PC and return to being sooner, rather than later, a problem for the Sins. At that time Merlin had no idea that Chandler was out of the Seal, nor that he also knew Absolute Cancel, so the only thing she reasonably could've feared for by letting AM Mel stranded there while the looked for other solutions, is that she believed or knew for sure he can break her PC too soon to not be left to his own devices in the PC. Otherwise she's a huge hypocrite about wanting to help Elizabeth out of the curse.

No, Chandler confirmed the impressive resourcefullness Infinity was granting her spell-casting, he spoke about her ability(i.e. "true power", not "magic power"), her MP should still be lower than that of a high ranking goddess. Learn to make the difference between ability and MP, they might rhyme in pronounciation but they're not the same thing.

Quick question: are you Nakaba to decide that the SD isn't invulnerable to the elements she commands?! And that her daughter couldn't possibly inherit her stellar high resistance to them?! At least my assumption takes into consideration the fact that the SD does command the main elements. I didn't default Elizabeth to immunity, I took into consideration the likelihood(in the positive) that out of most characters in the series, goddess Elizabeth would have among the highest resistances to the main elements, unlike her weakness to plain ol' physical force. Controlling them, going by all that Nakaba has said and done and written into this story seems to be the family business for the royals of the GC.

Also, you're the one who started with the rude attitude by downplaying Elizabeth in the most absurd manner. It's insulting both my intelligence and my memory of her skills and abilties, or of the GC in general.

I never made up properties for Ark, Elizabeth was enclosed in one that burned Meliodas when he was retrieving her after she passed out from Derrieri's punch. Ark physically burns anyone and everyone, the only beings with diverse high levels of resistance to it are the goddesses themselves. Demons, for instance, would have their very high regen to go against Light if anything. You, on the other hand, did completely make up Merlin's nigh pristine resistance to high ranking goddess Ark. Where did her high resistance to Light come from?! Derrieri's arse?! because I understand her honed resistance to demonic spells and skills, since she uses them.,. but Light?! And you accuse others of random claims?!

Stalling doesn't guarantee anything, unless you completely ignore the opponents having powers and brains and a strategy too. In this case, AM Meliodas would know about The One, Elizabeth surely knows about it and The One has been disproved as "invincible", so you're greatly reaching. The Sunshine bomb doesn't secure anything beyond the heavy risk of taking out everyone, including Escanor and Merlin, since the explosion itself should be far stronger that what Fraudrin was planning. Why do you think Nakaba droped it in favour of "chicken soup"?! Also, I don't imagine any fight arena with a 10 mile radius.

Dude, Escanor made it perfectly clear Rhitta can not hold The One's power. It's enchanted to absorb some of his power, but not The One's. Otherwise, it's absurd when you wonder why didn't he have that level of power already stored in Rhitta for other distressing moments, like his attack on Glo and Droll. That hasn't changed yet and it's further proof to how limited is Merlin's ability still in competing with the SD and DK, yet you're trying to wank her into not only having a hax ability, but also "infinite" MP?!?!

Sunshine has Escanor readily dropping into a coma after the use of The One, and since you can't guaranty his "invincibility" over the opposing duo who in this challenge knows what The One is...yeah, the rule of knock-out applies.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

That’s the problem though. They don’t have low resistance to it. It’s just that compared to every other element their bodies have slightly less resistance. It’s the same way how some people have an easier time dealing with spicy food than other people do. Or how other people have higher resistances to pain. That doesn’t mean that those with a lesser pain tolerance have a specific weakness

As to what element Elizabeth is least resistant to, we don’t know yet because the spell has never been cast on her. Does she have one though, yes. Why else would Merlin spend minutes upon minutes setting up this plan if there was a chance that it could fail. Surely she didn’t win this match by mere chance

Less resistance doesn’t equal a weakness. Breastplates have more resistance to war hammers than gauntlets do, but no one suggests that every gauntlet made was made with a weakness. And speaking of armor, armor is effective at blocking swords but less at war hammers. That doesn’t mean the armor has a weak spot
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Also message from another

"I dont know what is going on here. BUT. Merlin used double impact to find out which element was they weaker too. THEY WERE STILL STRONG TO IT. She then on the second wave lowered their resistance so that SIMPLE BASIC LEVEL ONE LIGHTNING AND WIND SPELLS BEATED THEM TO A PULP. Thats what was great about it, she completely humiliated the top tier demons"
“She did all that and gave them a weakness”

Love, Eternita

#DontShootTheMessenger
I was talking about the same thing, when lower than other types of resistance, they're still points of vulnerability, like small holes into an armor you can corrode some way into bigger ones giving you access to vital organs. Still holes. The degree of comparison applied to the concept doesn't change much the overall meaning of the process in this case.

I still don't see how DI can be surely applied, with success, even, to the daughter of an entity that looks like an incarnation of the main elements, by comparison. The fact that is was applicable to 2 of the oldest and most powerful demons and likely the same thing of most living beings doesn't default their flaws, big or small, to all the rest of the beings or all the rest relatively weaker than them.

That's the whole matter with the elemental resistance.
 

MrSchmitty7

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I still don't see how DI can be surely applied, with success, even, to the daughter of an entity that looks like an incarnation of the main elements, by comparison. The fact that is was applicable to 2 of the oldest and most powerful demons and likely the same thing of most living beings doesn't default their flaws, big or small, to all the rest of the beings or all the rest relatively weaker than them.
Being “the daughter of an entity” hasn’t been said that you have universal resistance.

And again these aren’t flaws though. I’m from a warm part of the untied states, so my body isn’t really that affected by hot temperatures, but cold temperatures affect me a bit more. Does that mean I have a weakness to the cold?

As for the holes in the armor that’s different. Holes in the armor are spots where the armor isn’t present. Chandler and Cusack don’t have spots on their bodies where their resistance isn’t present. They just have a body that doesn’t resist in a consistent manner.

In order for there to be “holes” in there armor there has to be a weak point to begin with. However, Merlin said they have no weaknesses, just less resistance towards certain attributes. Like the armor example a again. A breastplate resists swords better than hammers, but armor in and of itself isn’t faulty or weak because of that. If that were the case then no one would develop armor to such a degree over history
 

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Being “the daughter of an entity” hasn’t been said that you have universal resistance.

And again these aren’t flaws though. I’m from a warm part of the untied states, so my body isn’t really that affected by hot temperatures, but cold temperatures affect me a bit more. Does that mean I have a weakness to the cold?

As for the holes in the armor that’s different. Holes in the armor are spots where the armor isn’t present. Chandler and Cusack don’t have spots on their bodies where their resistance isn’t present. They just have a body that doesn’t resist in a consistent manner.

In order for there to be “holes” in there armor there has to be a weak point to begin with. However, Merlin said they have no weaknesses, just less resistance towards certain attributes. Like the armor example a again. A breastplate resists swords better than hammers, but armor in and of itself isn’t faulty or weak because of that. If that were the case then no one would develop armor to such a degree over history
The opposite hasn't been said either, yet as I've said for maybe 5 times already, there is greater likelihood to having extremely high resistance than not having it.

Yes, you have a weakness to cold, if cold temperatures affect you negatively, regardless of its level, it can be better/easier exploited into damaging you than the the heat. I'm talking about temperatures here, not throwing you into a bonfire or a lake in the middle of the mountains in midwinter.

Ok, let me rephrase the armor comparison. Their armors are made of diverse alloys which are respectively weaker in resistance to specific different types of corroding/melting catalysts or accelerants. Does that work for you?
EDIT: I did not add the bit for Elizabeth. If by any chance, Elizabeth's "armor"'s tempering involved using all of the "corrosives" available to Merlin, or even more, shouldn't it be considered natural that Elizabeth's armor would have too impressive a resistance to the corrosives Merlin can use, thus, the use of DI becomes redundant and wastes time and resources Merlin should use otherwise?! It's pretty much the same thing as being given various types of poisons when you're born out of a Poison Eater/Source who still somehow managed the miracle of birthing you. Naturally, you should have superior resistance to those as your DNA was written in a way that recognises the poisons as part of you.
 
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MrSchmitty7

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The opposite hasn't been said either, yet as I've said for maybe 5 times already, there is greater likelihood to having extremely high resistance than not having it.
That’s the burden of proof though. If you make a claim it’s up to you to prove it, not for someone else prove it for you. But regardless of that we do have proof. The sinner, who was created by the demon king, is weak to lightning and wind as chandler and Cusack even though the demon king control lightning, one of his elements.

Yes, you have a weakness to cold, if cold temperatures affect you negatively, regardless of its level, it can be better/easier exploited into damaging you than the the heat. I'm talking about temperatures here, not throwing you into a bonfire or a lake in the middle of the mountains in midwinter.
Or I have higher resistance to the heat maybe and my resistance to cold is just neutral?

Their armors are made of diverse alloys which are respectively weaker in resistance to specific different types of corroding/melting catalysts or accelerants. Does that work for you?
Weakness means their is a fault though. Chandler and Cusack don’t have faults, just things they resist better than others.

Elizabeth's "armor"'s tempering involved using all of the "corrosives" available to Merlin, or even more, shouldn't it be considered natural that Elizabeth's armor would have too impressive a resistance to the corrosives Merlin can use, thus, the use of DI becomes redundant and wastes time and resources Merlin should use otherwise?! It's pretty much the same thing as being given various types of poisons when you're born out of a Poison Eater/Source who still somehow managed the miracle of birthing you. Naturally, you should have superior resistance to those as your DNA was written in a way that recognises the poisons as part of you.
That’s assuming that the elements are even in her dna and not just magical. And again I point to the chandler whose weakness is lightning even though the DK can create storms around himself.

It’s not a matter of having a weakness. It’s just the fact that the body is not uniform in it’s workings. A weakness to an element is something detrimental like a demons weakness to ark. Not a minuscule difference in the case of chandler and Cusack.

Also it doesn’t even matter if Elizabeth doesn’t have anything she’s less resistant to. Double impact would still lower he defenses with any hit that she would take. Any element/ attack would do
 

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Merlin letting Escanor waste precious time with his decision, which wasn't good at all since it:
a) wasted more of their time;
b) got him more vulnerable to Sunshine than before,
is what tells me AM Mel can break PC and return to being sooner, rather than later, a problem for the Sins. At that time Merlin had no idea that Chandler was out of the Seal, nor that he also knew Absolute Cancel, so the only thing she reasonably could've feared for by letting AM Mel stranded there while the looked for other solutions, is that she believed or knew for sure he can break her PC too soon to not be left to his own devices in the PC. Otherwise she's a huge hypocrite about wanting to help Elizabeth out of the curse.

No, Chandler confirmed the impressive resourcefullness Infinity was granting her spell-casting, he spoke about her ability(i.e. "true power", not "magic power"), her MP should still be lower than that of a high ranking goddess. Learn to make the difference between ability and MP, they might rhyme in pronounciation but they're not the same thing.

Quick question: are you Nakaba to decide that the SD isn't invulnerable to the elements she commands?! And that her daughter couldn't possibly inherit her stellar high resistance to them?! At least my assumption takes into consideration the fact that the SD does command the main elements. I didn't default Elizabeth to immunity, I took into consideration the likelihood(in the positive) that out of most characters in the series, goddess Elizabeth would have among the highest resistances to the main elements, unlike her weakness to plain ol' physical force. Controlling them, going by all that Nakaba has said and done and written into this story seems to be the family business for the royals of the GC.

Also, you're the one who started with the rude attitude by downplaying Elizabeth in the most absurd manner. It's insulting both my intelligence and my memory of her skills and abilties, or of the GC in general.

I never made up properties for Ark, Elizabeth was enclosed in one that burned Meliodas when he was retrieving her after she passed out from Derrieri's punch. Ark physically burns anyone and everyone, the only beings with diverse high levels of resistance to it are the goddesses themselves. Demons, for instance, would have their very high regen to go against Light if anything. You, on the other hand, did completely make up Merlin's nigh pristine resistance to high ranking goddess Ark. Where did her high resistance to Light come from?! Derrieri's arse?! because I understand her honed resistance to demonic spells and skills, since she uses them.,. but Light?! And you accuse others of random claims?!

Stalling doesn't guarantee anything, unless you completely ignore the opponents having powers and brains and a strategy too. In this case, AM Meliodas would know about The One, Elizabeth surely knows about it and The One has been disproved as "invincible", so you're greatly reaching. The Sunshine bomb doesn't secure anything beyond the heavy risk of taking out everyone, including Escanor and Merlin, since the explosion itself should be far stronger that what Fraudrin was planning. Why do you think Nakaba droped it in favour of "chicken soup"?! Also, I don't imagine any fight arena with a 10 mile radius.

Dude, Escanor made it perfectly clear Rhitta can not hold The One's power. It's enchanted to absorb some of his power, but not The One's. Otherwise, it's absurd when you wonder why didn't he have that level of power already stored in Rhitta for other distressing moments, like his attack on Glo and Droll. That hasn't changed yet and it's further proof to how limited is Merlin's ability still in competing with the SD and DK, yet you're trying to wank her into not only having a hax ability, but also "infinite" MP?!?!

Sunshine has Escanor readily dropping into a coma after the use of The One, and since you can't guaranty his "invincibility" over the opposing duo who in this challenge knows what The One is...yeah, the rule of knock-out applies.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



I was talking about the same thing, when lower than other types of resistance, they're still points of vulnerability, like small holes into an armor you can corrode some way into bigger ones giving you access to vital organs. Still holes. The degree of comparison applied to the concept doesn't change much the overall meaning of the process in this case.

I still don't see how DI can be surely applied, with success, even, to the daughter of an entity that looks like an incarnation of the main elements, by comparison. The fact that is was applicable to 2 of the oldest and most powerful demons and likely the same thing of most living beings doesn't default their flaws, big or small, to all the rest of the beings or all the rest relatively weaker than them.

That's the whole matter with the elemental resistance.
Was still his decision, she advised against it but he has his pride. Besides, she knew Zeldris was out there, and back then he was hyped able to break the curse
No Chandler said her performance against ON was only possible with Infinite magic. Elizabeth canonically has no where close to Merlin's MP
I didnt say Eli couldnt possibly be invulnerable to them. I said Eli's doesnt default invulnerable to anything, no character does. Youre wanking.
You never made up ark properties lol? So it preventing teleportation is actually in the manga? It doing extra damage to Merlin is in the manga? No.
I didnt say Merlin was resistant to ark, i dont know where you got that from.
After holding Rhitta in the One for 2 seconds, Escanor had enough power stored to fight TOD in his friggin night form, who knows how powerful a Charge & Fire of that would be. As for why he doesnt do this more, to preserve his life, Escanor uses Merlin's glasses to stay in night mode whenever he can.
Escanor also continued to fight TOD directly after using The One... at night. So yeah, stalling is a guaranteed victory. Merlin/Escanor take this, Diane and King will be the true challenge.
 
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OtakuFreak

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Merlin would need to hit Elizabeth with double impact to even figure out what element she is most vulnerable too, but good luck getting through a pristine magical defense or someone who won't allow you to set up nor prepare a strategy to take them down.

It's amusing how the community's gone from downplaying Merlin to completely overhyping her ability now since she defeated the Masters...
 

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Merlin would need to hit Elizabeth with double impact to even figure out what element she is most vulnerable too, but good luck getting through a pristine magical defense or someone who won't allow you to set up nor prepare a strategy to take them down.

It's amusing how the community's gone from downplaying Merlin to completely overhyping her ability now since she defeated the Masters...
The entire debate is inherently flawed to begin with. What one says now could very likely turn out to be a laughable notion in the future by the reality of the circumstance regarding evidence.
 
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