Discussion NNT versus thread

[Ger]

If ban commented only meliodas would match DK in strength then ban gets stomp here by meliodas in strength and speed ban gets blitzed.

 

[sobreno]

Leaning towards Ban.

Snatch should allow him to significantly drain Mel’s strength, a sacred treasure would only increase his magic, and he has a range advantage over Mel.

Lol, Ban literally stated that Mel has no equal in the Purgatory.

He beat him. As he did far better in Purgatory than him. Good thing that he isn't immortal anymore. He is also more stronger and faster as showed in Purgatory.

And what range? His range is useless against Trillions dark in base Emo Mel form. He became so much more powerful that his base has access to Darkness power on another level compared to before without using Demon Mark to even more powering up.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2019 ---

I agree but take into account he did to mel already and it didn't work too well last time

Wow i am huge idiot, i forgot no bemon mark ok yeah ban has full advantage

Current base Mel which is literally Emo Mel has superior feats.

He still take it as showed in Purgatory.

 

[Shadowlord123]

Current base Mel which is literally Emo Mel has superior feats.

He still take it as showed in Purgatory.

Are we sure that Current Mel is the same as Emo Mel, though? Sure, if you consider both versions to be the same then he has better feats than Ban for sure, but the thing is that Emo Mel also has better feats than Current Base Mel. Emo Mel clashed with Purgatory DK multiple times and made him also block his attacks, meanwhile Current Base Mel was getting slapped by Buff DK Zel. His punches didn't even made him flinch until he activated his demon mark. Purgatory DK should be far above Buff DK Zel who was still in the process of regaining his full 50%. There's also the fact that Emo Mel could use darkness but Current Mel, as far as we know, can't, or at least he hasn't showed it.

Even if it doesn't make much sense, it doesn't look like Current Base Mel is as strong as Emo Mel from a feat standpoint, but that's just my opinion. What do you think?

 

[sobreno]

Are we sure that Current Mel is the same as Emo Mel, though? Sure, if you consider both versions to be the same then he has better feats than Ban for sure, but the thing is that Emo Mel also has better feats than Current Base Mel. Emo Mel clashed with Purgatory DK multiple times and made him also block his attacks, meanwhile Current Base Mel was getting slapped by Buff DK Zel. His punches didn't even made him flinch until he activated his demon mark. Purgatory DK should be far above Buff DK Zel who was still in the process of regaining his full 50%. There's also the fact that Emo Mel could use darkness but Current Mel, as far as we know, can't, or at least he hasn't showed it.

Even if it doesn't make much sense, it doesn't look like Current Base Mel is as strong as Emo Mel from a feat standpoint, but that's just my opinion. What do you think?

They are the same, the Hell? He literally went back into his body as showed that he had his Purgatory clothes lol. He can use Darkness, what is those wings Darkness upon staying normal?

You realize that Purgatory DK still dominated and trashed Emo Mel at the end? And not his 50% but his Original 100%, nowhere he said that he was gaining his 50%, they are already there with the 10 commandments. Now his essence and soul's power is getting back via assimilating completely the host.

Indeed, what you are saying doesn't make any sense at all. That is Emo Mel with his real body now.

 

[Shadowlord123]

They are the same, the Hell? He literally went back into his body as showed that he had his Purgatory clothes lol. He can use Darkness, what is those wings Darkness upon staying normal?

You realize that Purgatory DK still dominated and trashed Emo Mel at the end? And not his 50% but his Original 100%, nowhere he said that he was gaining his 50%, they are already there with the 10 commandments. Now his essence and soul's power is getting back via assimilating completely the host.

Indeed, what you are saying doesn't make any sense at all. That is Emo Mel with his real body now.

Ok, I forgot about the wings of darkness, you're right, my bad, but calm down a little bit, lol.

So, you're saying that the DK's soul contains also half of his power, the half that is sealed in Purgatory, and that by completely assimilating the host+commandments he will regain his 100%? Could be the case. Now that I think about it, the dialogue of him regaining his full power makes more sense. I always assumed that he could only gain 50% of his power and in order to regain his full 100%, the seal had to be broken and fuse with the other half composed by the commandments or some shit.

But if the soul contains the power he had on Purgatory (it is what you're implying) shouldn't Emo Mel have been trashed when they fought inside of him? Instead, the DK was the one that got demolished. Probably that's due to the lack of time he had to adapt as well, but I find that a little bit odd.

 

[sobreno]

Ok, I forgot about the wings of darkness, you're right, my bad, but calm down a little bit, lol.

So, you're saying that the DK's soul contains also half of his power, the half that is sealed in Purgatory, and that by completely assimilating the host+commandments he will regain his 100%? Could be the case. Now that I think about it, the dialogue of him regaining his full power makes more sense. I always assumed that he could only gain 50% of his power and in order to regain his full 100%, the seal had to be broken and fuse with the other half composed by the commandments or some shit.

But if the soul contains the power he had on Purgatory (it is what you're implying) shouldn't Emo Mel have been trashed when they fought inside of him? Instead, the DK was the one that got demolished. Probably that's due to the lack of time he had to adapt as well, but I find that a little bit odd.

Obviously, otherwise he wouldn't said his " Original " power as the DK. But yeah.

Emo Mel had awakened his Original power already, and he became the DK too.

He still need time to completely assimilate the vessel and with just 50%, he didn't stand a chance against Emo Mel who awakened that power as he got trashed on both occasion.

Purgatory and the spirit world where they were both souls.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Lol, Ban literally stated that Mel has no equal in the Purgatory.

He beat him. As he did far better in Purgatory than him. Good thing that he isn't immortal anymore. He is also more stronger and faster as showed in Purgatory.

And what range? His range is useless against Trillions dark in base Emo Mel form. He became so much more powerful that his base has access to Darkness power on another level compared to before without using Demon Mark to even more powering up.

Ban saying Mel is stronger does not mean base Mel is stronger than Ban. Merlin has said Escanor is the strongest of the sins but that doesn’t make his night form stronger than any of them just because he was called the stronger. Same way how Mael is called the strongest AA, however before noon Ludo is able to still compete with him

Also far better in purgatory was because he used his DK magic. Also Ban was able to struggle against the DK’s grip as noted by him. Mel was not and had to resort to DK magic. Mel trading blows with the DK is something even wild can do.
This is a base battle. And if we’re going by the recent chapters Ban has better feats.

Ban vs DK Mel after Mel was temporarily subdued and DK had control of the body: was only able to be stabbed a few centimeters and wasn’t slowed down.
Mel vs DK Zel who is still powering up: Mel has to use his demon mark to equal him again after having blood splattered across that page. Sure he can heal fast, but demons have already shown that unless the damage remains even if fully healed.

Last point, Bans range covers nearly an entire valley. Trillion dark has shown no such reach. It damaged the DK, but that entire battle was in Mel’s mind and was a spirit battle. Damage was determined by whoever had a better control of Mel’s mind. Which is why once Mel lost hope he got one shotted by DK even though outside of his mind he’s never been one shotted by the DK. Even in a weaker form against the supreme deity as well.

 

[sobreno]

Ban saying Mel is stronger does not mean base Mel is stronger than Ban. Merlin has said Escanor is the strongest of the sins but that doesn’t make his night form stronger than any of them just because he was called the stronger. Same way how Mael is called the strongest AA, however before noon Ludo is able to still compete with him

Also far better in purgatory was because he used his DK magic. Also Ban was able to struggle against the DK’s grip as noted by him. Mel was not and had to resort to DK magic. Mel trading blows with the DK is something even wild can do.
This is a base battle. And if we’re going by the recent chapters Ban has better feats.

Ban vs DK Mel after Mel was temporarily subdued and DK had control of the body: was only able to be stabbed a few centimeters and wasn’t slowed down.
Mel vs DK Zel who is still powering up: Mel has to use his demon mark to equal him again

Last point, Bans range covers nearly an entire valley. Trillion dark has shown no such reach. It damaged the DK, but that entire battle was in Mel’s mind and was a spirit battle. Damage was determined by whoever had a better control of Mel’s mind. Which is why once Mel lost hope he got one shotted by DK even though outside of his mind he’s never been one shotted by the DK. Even in a weaker form against the supreme deity as well.

Still, base Mel has far better feat as he literally brushed off that grip and saved him in one go, while the DK didn't noticed him.

That is Purgatory DK in his true OG body.

Same with his sword slash which is the best physical fest the entire manga.

DK Mel wasn't near as powerful as Purgatory DK in his true body as he hadn't assimilated the body completely and he was getting destroyed from the inside by the same Emo Mel again.

Trillions dark as multiple range and can be spread everywhere, it is danmuku move. And it damaged his soul which had a physical form over there as showed by the blood and if Meliodas was killed over there, it was all over.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

That is Purgatory DK in his true OG body

Purgatory DK has stated that he does not have his full 50% back. That’s also why it was said he still had to eat the purgatory animals to regain power if I recall.

DK Mel by default was stronger than purgatory DK since the commandments by default are already 50% of his power added on top of Mel’s base.

Trillion dark again needs to have feats shown outside of Mel’s mind. So far Ban’s sacred treasure has the farther range.

 

[sobreno]

Purgatory DK has stated that he does not have his full 50% back when he was talking with Zel. Thats why Zel said it was not time for him to leave purgatory yet. That’s also why it was said he still had to eat the purgatory animals to regain power.

DK Mel by default was stronger than purgatory DK since the commandments by default are already 50% of his power added on top of Mel’s base.

Trillion dark again needs to have feats shown outside of Mel’s mind. So far Ban’s sacred treasure has the farther range.

That was very long ago lol, you forgot the time difference between Purgatory and the real world?

Nope, he wasn't, far from that, dude need several time to assimilate a vessel completely and channel his Original strength as the DK.

It is feat as showed by how it could damage the very essence of the DK himself as it noted by how it can pierce his body and armor and how Gowther noted that they had incalculable density and power behind it.

So yeah, hard to imagine something having more range and space that Trillions ( literal ) ball of super condensed Darkness on another level compared to anything he had done before.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

That was very long ago lol, you forgot the time difference between Purgatory and the real world?

He wasn’t eating though because Mel and Ban were fighting him. If he doesn’t eat he can’t gain strength regardless of time.

Nope, he wasn't, far from that, dude need several time to assimilate a vessel completely and channel his Original strength as the DK.

That was only said about Zel’s body. DK didn’t have any problems with Mel’s body till Mel started fighting back.

is feat as showed by how it could damage the very essence of the DK himself as it noted by how it can pierce his body and armor and how Gowther noted that they had incalculable density and power behind it.

Again that battle was a spirit battle. That’s not the actual DK. If you think it’s the actual DK, then you also have to acknowledge that Mel gets one shotted by a magic attack from the DK. Even Mel tells the DK that his body in purgatory is lonely. So that’s not his real body

So yeah, hard to imagine something having more range and space that Trillions ( literal ) ball of super condensed Darkness on another level compared to anything he had done before.

That’s just the name of the attack. Same way how holy sword Escanor isn’t actually a sword. It needs range feats, not just interpretations. Provide a manga scan if possible

 

[sobreno]

He wasn’t eating though because Mel and Ban were fighting him. If he doesn’t eat he can’t gain strength regardless of time.


That was only said about Zel’s body. DK didn’t have any problems with Mel’s body till Mel started fighting back.


Again that battle was a spirit battle. That’s not the actual DK. If you think it’s the actual DK, then you also have to acknowledge that Mel gets one shotted by a magic attack from the DK. Even Mel tells the DK that his body in purgatory is lonely. So that’s not his real body


That’s just the name of the attack. Same way how holy sword Escanor isn’t actually a sword. It needs range feats, not just interpretations. Provide a manga scan if possible

He was as stated by Wild, he regained his Original just after that when he met them lol.

He had any problems with Zel body too, he literally stated that it wasn't bad compared to Mel's body but he needed time to regain his Original power as the DK.

That was a soul battle which both could kill each others.

You literally saw it, several multiple if ball of Darkness, that is your assumption lol.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

He was as stated by Wild, he regained his Original just after that when he met them lol.

I don’t think Wild ever said he regained his original power. He said he was eating the monsters to gain power. He never said he stopped doing it which means the DK still was eating and was still trying to gain back power.

He had any problems with Zel body too

Yeah that’s what I said.

You literally saw it, several multiple if ball of Darkness, that is your assumption lol.

Several doesn’t equal 1 trillion. If it was 1 trillion then the DK’s body wouldn’t even be visible. 1 trillion would cover his entire body probably three times over. Not only that but the orbs never span the range of Bans sacred treasure. The ST covers a valley. The balls never went far from Mel and the DK was never a valley distance far from Mel
If you take the word “trillion” out of the spell, no one would even think it had anything to do with a trillion of anything

 

[sobreno]

I don’t think Wild ever said he regained his original power. He said he was eating the monsters to gain power. He never said he stopped doing it which means the DK still was eating and was still trying to gain back power.


Yeah that’s what I said.


Several doesn’t equal 1 trillion. If it was 1 trillion then the DK’s body wouldn’t even be visible. 1 trillion would cover his entire body probably three times over. Not only that but the orbs never span the range of Bans sacred treasure. The ST covers a valley. The balls never went far from Mel and the DK was never a valley distance far from Mel
If you take the word “trillion” out of the spell, no one would even think it had anything to do with a trillion of anything

He literally implied and we saw that he recovered his Original size, meaning that he got stronger via eating enough already.

Well, unless proven wrong, we took the literal number directly as presented.

That is why I said that your stance is just your assumption.

But, the author presented at one Trillions, then it is, he will obviously never draw one Trillions, it is humanly impossible lol.

They easily can, it is one Trillions after all and far larger, just basic logic based on their Ridiculous numbers.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

He literally implied and we saw that he recovered his Original size, meaning that he got stronger via eating enough already.

He didn’t imply though. He said he was continuing to do so. He never said he stopped doing it so the DK probably still has a bit left to grow. Wild flat out says he’s continuing to get bigger. So he didn’t stop

Well, unless proven wrong, we took the literal number directly as presented.

You can’t take it literally though for two reasons
A. If you take numbers literally, then Merlin can literally power up her spells to infinite levels of enchanted power
B. It’s clearly not presented as a trillion as you said.
I mean if you take a billion dollar bills and put them on on top of the other they go into space. And that’s just a billion. The DK in no way covers any area that can compensate for a trillion of anything.

But, the author presented at one Trillions, then it is, he will obviously never draw one Trillions, it is humanly impossible lol.

They easily can, it is one Trillions after all and far larger, just basic logic based on their Ridiculous numbers.

He didn’t present it at one trillion. He just put the world “trillion” in it. Same way how he put “holy sword” into an attack that isn’t a sword and “nebula” into an attack that isn’t a nebula and “lightning king iron hammer” into an attack that is neither a king nor a hammer. None of these are taken literally so why do you take Mel’s literally when literally no math/logic suggest a trillion according to your own words.

If you’re gonna claim that Mel can make a trillion balls, then you also have to claim that Zeldris has the power to create a nebula since his magic is named “ominous nebula”.

 

[sobreno]

He didn’t imply though. He said he was continuing to do so. He never said he stopped doing it so the DK probably still has a bit left to grow. Wild flat out says he’s continuing to get bigger. So he didn’t stop


You can’t take it literally though for two reasons
A. If you take numbers literally, then Merlin can literally power up her spells to infinite levels of enchanted power
B. It’s clearly not presented as a trillion as you said.
I mean if you take a billion dollar bills and put them on on top of the other they go into space. And that’s just a billion. The DK in no way covers any area that can compensate for a trillion of anything.


He didn’t present it at one trillion. He just put the world “trillion” in it. Same way how he put “holy sword” into an attack that isn’t a sword and “nebula” into an attack that isn’t a nebula and “lightning king iron hammer” into an attack that is neither a king nor a hammer. None of these are taken literally so why do you take Mel’s literally when literally no math/logic suggest a trillion according to your own words.

If you’re gonna claim that Mel can make a trillion balls, then you also have to claim that Zeldris has the power to create a nebula since his magic is named “ominous nebula”.

He said that he continued getting bigger like that and he reached his Original size 3000 years ago lol, he recovered the same strength as before based on that information.

Naw, false equivalence, infinite isn't a finite number, unlike Trillions which although ridiculously big, is a finite numbers.

The authors use that method to not draw that Ridiculous number by simply stated the actual numbers of that move.

Zeldoris attack work like a nebula, same for those move.
But yet again, there is a difference with numbers and concepts.

We are discussing pure numbers here and it is a fantasy manga.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

He said that he continued getting bigger like that and he reached his Original size 3000 years ago lol, he recovered the same strength as before based on that information.

He never said he reached his original size 3,000 years ago. Where are you getting that information from? On chapter 272 Wild says he continues to grow. That means he’s not back to his original size yet. He might be 20 feet shorter for all we know

Naw, false equivalence, infinite isn't a finite number, unlike Trillions which although ridiculously big, is a finite numbers
It’s not a false equivalence. We’re dealing with numbers and I stuck with numbers. I’m not sure why we’ll draw the line at infinity, but a trillion is cool when both are outrageous for the situation.

The authors use that method to not draw that Ridiculous number by simply stated the actual numbers of that move.

It’s not like that’s a numbers rule though. Even when an author can draw it he won’t. So how can that be used as a reason? He could’ve drawn holy sword as a sword but he didn’t. Doesn’t mean it’s a sword because he “can’t draw it”

Zeldoris attack work like a nebula, same for those move.
But yet again, there is a difference with numbers and concepts.

According to whose rules? Vs battle wiki? Nakaba? Also Zeldris attack works like a vacuum. A nebula is just a cluster of space gas. So again you can’t take names literally.

We are discussing pure numbers here and it is a fantasy manga.

Right and fantasy exaggerates stuff. Like the amount of a trillion

 

[sobreno]

He never said he reached his original size 3,000 years ago. Where are you getting that information from? On chapter 272 Wild says he continues to grow. That means he’s not back to his original size yet. He might be 20 feet shorter for all we know


It’s not like that’s a numbers rule though. Even when an author can draw it he won’t. So how can that be used as a reason? He could’ve drawn holy sword as a sword but he didn’t. Doesn’t mean it’s a sword because he “can’t draw it”


According to whose rules? Vs battle wiki? Nakaba? Also Zeldris attack works like a vacuum. A nebula is just a cluster of space gas. So again you can’t take names literally.


Right and fantasy exaggerates stuff. Like the amount of a trillion

Can you see it yourself how big he is? He is literally at the same size when he killed Meliodas 3000 years ago.

Exactly, that is how numbers work, we take them as face value unlike subjective concepts and words.
For number, you can't be subjective.

Yes, he named his attack after a Nebula which is a concept, doesn't mean that it works like a real one.

Yes, which is why you take it as face value when a clear numbers is given. Like I said, in fantasy, that is possible.

 

[sobreno]

Current Diane vs Dolor.

Zaratras and Dreyfus vs Matrona.

 

[Shadowlord123]

Current Diane vs Dolor.

Zaratras and Dreyfus vs Matrona.

- Dolor takes this hands down. Current Diane can only get to 50K by dancing as far as we know and Drole is 54K without dancing.

- Matrona wins.