Discussion NNT versus thread

[sobreno]

When did I ever say Gowther have another magic and again saying invasion can't be measured same goes for others magic ability. You can measure their magic capacity but not their ability.

Could be but Its not proven anywhere so i won't say anything more.


I said "as long as you don't fight Gowther" cause he's the only Person in the entire manga who has the power to affect someones spirit.

Did I say that you said that? I said that 1300 represents his Invasion since it is only his magic power.

Yeah, it " could " be.

He can affect people who have a weak spirit, as he showed with Blackout, someone with high enough spirit, has the chance to resist it. For example, Cath who is the best in that domain here.

 

[Demonspeed]

Yeah, it is a possibility, spirit power never had a huge impact in fight or power in general anyways.

For example, you have a dude with 5K in strength and 100 in spirit against a dude with 100 in strength and 5K in spirit, both 0 in magic.

The 5K in strength dude one shot the other dude here in combat, no matter how high his spirit is.

Impossible. There is no way Nakaba would give 26K Escanor a Spirit level so low that Gowther's Blackout would be enough to beat him. It doesn't make sense at all.

 

[sobreno]

Impossible. There is no way Nakaba would give 26K Escanor a Spirit level so low that Gowther's Blackout would be enough to beat him. It doesn't make sense at all.

Lol how it is impossible? How doesn't it make sense? You talk like spirit power is something very important and relevant in the hierarchy of power between the characters.

 

[Raiyan]

Did I say that you said that? I said that 1300 represents his Invasion since it is only his magic power.

Yeah, it " could " be.

He can affect people who have a weak spirit, as he showed with Blackout, someone with high enough spirit, has the chance to resist it. For example, Cath who is the best in that domain here.

You countered my post by saying this ↓ so thats why I protested

Nope, Gowther only has Invasion as magic power

You're saying that Invasions overall power was 1300 that time??

Ofcourse higher spirit has the chance to resist... if I recall cath has over 4/5k and he won't be knocked out by Blackout or the arrow by gowther.

 

[sobreno]

You countered my post by saying this ↓ so thats why I protested

You're saying that Invasions overall power was 1300 that time??

Ofcourse higher spirit has the chance to resist... if I recall cath has over 4/5k and he won't be knocked out by Blackout or the arrow by gowther.

?

I don't understand your first sentence, elaborate, please.

Yes, 1300 was the power of Invasion from the Doll Gowther at the beginning of the series.


I agree with the last sentence tho.

 

[Raiyan]

Lol how it is impossible? How doesn't it make sense? You talk like spirit power is something very important and relevant in the hierarchy of power between the characters.

It is important when You fight with Gowther but when you fight against others its not that relevant.

 

[Raiyan]

?

I don't understand your first sentence, elaborate, please.

*Sigh*Lets make it simple -->

*I said gowthers 1300 isn't Invasion its his magic stat

*And you said "Nope, Gowther only has Invasion as magic power"

*I said countering what you said "When did i said Gowther had another magic other than invasion"

*And lastly you said "Did I say that you said that?"

You know what lets forget it

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 6, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 6, 2018 ---

Yes, 1300 was the power of Invasion from the Doll Gowther at the beginning of the series.

And why Merlins Magic was 3,540 when she had Infinty

 

[Demonspeed]

Lol how it is impossible? How doesn't it make sense? You talk like spirit power is something very important and relevant in the hierarchy of power between the characters.

Spirit is important, it is not about raw power but it affects how you fight and act in battle, how you use your skills. It doesn't exist just because of Gowther. Before the TC arc, when 3K was still considered OP, Spirit was Meliodas's highest stat(2010) and he was clearly the strongest of his group.

The AoE Blackout is a technique to get rid of fodder. Thinking that 26K Escanor would have lost consciousness at Liones while Gowther and Diane were fighting, because of an attack which can be resisted by even Slader and Dreyfus doesn't make sense to me.

Clearly all the Sins, when they are able to fight well, must have a Spirit level above 400. Diane was the one with the lowest Spirit level and it was 480.

 

[sobreno]

*Sigh*Lets make it simple -->

*I said gowthers 1300 isn't Invasion its his magic stat

*And you said "Nope, Gowther only has Invasion as magic power"

*I said countering what you said "When did i said Gowther had another magic other than invasion"

*And lastly you said "Did I say that you said that?"

You know what lets forget it

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 6, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 6, 2018 ---

And why Merlins Magic was 3,540 when she had Infinty

Oh, okay then, I still maintain what I said, I believe that it is the case yeah.

Yeah, let's forget it.

Well, Infinity is nothing but pure hax, it is still 3540 but she is obviously stronger in magic power when she faced Grayroad and Fraudin.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 6, 2018 ---

Spirit is important, it is not about raw power but it affects how you fight and act in battle, how you use your skills. It doesn't exist just because of Gowther. Before the TC arc, when 3K was still considered OP, Spirit was Meliodas's highest stat(2010) and he was clearly the strongest of his group.

The AoE Blackout is a technique to get rid of fodder. Thinking that 26K Escanor would have lost consciousness at Liones while Gowther and Diane were fighting, because of an attack which can be resisted by even Slader and Dreyfus doesn't make sense to me.

Well, that is because Meliodas's strength was ridiculous compared to the rest ( he has the best feat of physical strength back then ) and his magic signature protects him from magic attack, he could still power up to 4400 with demon mark.

Even back then, he had the means to remains one of the strongest of his group.

So you are saying that the AoE of the same move considerably decreases the power of the technique?

 

[Demonspeed]

Well, that is because Meliodas's strength was ridiculous compared to the rest ( he has the best feat of physical strength back then ) and his magic signature protects him from magic attack, he could still power up to 4400 with demon mark.

Even back then, he had the means to remains one of the strongest of his group.

So you are saying that the AoE of the same move considerably decreases the power of the technique?

The one with the highest Strength was not him, it was Diane(1870) and she had 900 in Magic, Meliodas had 960 in Strength and 400 in Magic. Ban had 930 In Strength and 1380 in Magic. Physically, Diane was much stronger. And yet Meliodas was the best fighter.

I am saying that the AoE Blackout is weaker and it is clearly a move he used to get rid of fodder. Nakaba made sure to give the Sins a Spirit level higher than 400 and even the likes of Dreyfus and Slader can resist it(these two are among the strongest Humans of the kingdom but they were still fodder to the Sins). So, I can't imagine 26K Escanor losing consciousnesses because of such a technique.

Since Blackout Arrow worked on that Escanor and works on a single target, to me it is obviously more powerful.

 

[sobreno]

The one with the highest Strength was not him, it was Diane(1870) and she had 900 in Magic, Meliodas had 960 in Strength and 400 in Magic. Ban had 930 In Strength and 1380 in Magic. Physically, Diane was much stronger. And yet Meliodas was the best fighter.

I am saying that the AoE Blackout is weaker and it is clearly a move he used to get rid of fodder. Nakaba made sure to give the Sins a Spirit level higher than 400 and even the likes of Dreyfus and Slader can resist it(these two are among the strongest Humans of the kingdom but they were still fodder to the Sins). So, I can't imagine 26K Escanor losing consciousnesses because of such a technique.

Since Blackout Arrow worked on that Escanor and works on a single target, to me it is obviously more powerful.

Yeah but Mel was lucky to have FC who has the mechanics to reflect back any magic attack, regardless of their power, that was his hax. I agree that he was ( and still is ) the best fighter overall.

Okay, you convinced me with Blackout arrow, it is indeed strange for some like Escanor ( where fodders like Dreyfus and Slader has more than 400 ) to have a spirit power lower than 400, he should be at the very least in 1000.

 

[Raiyan]

Well, Infinity is nothing but pure hax, it is still 3540 but she is obviously stronger in magic power when she faced Grayroad and Fraudin.

If you measured Gowthers Invasion as 1300 at magic then Merlins Infinty is measured 3540 ?? [Forget the whole TC arc let just just talk about the Hendrickson arc]

 

[sobreno]

If you measured Gowthers Invasion as 1300 at magic then Merlins Infinty is measured 3540 ?? [Forget the whole TC arc let just just talk about the Hendrickson arc]

Yes, since the databook is canon and legit.

 

[Mythoclast]

King vs Gowther
Merlin vs Ban
Merlin, King, Diane, Gowther, Ban vs Sariel and Tarmiel
Misfits vs Albion
Zaratras, Hendrickson, Dreyfus, Misfits vs Edinburgh Vampires

-King more often than not.
-Merlin
-The Archangels probably
-Albion
-The Holy Knights

As for the powerlevel discussion,the number on your magic pool has never really determined how potent an ability is.So whether or not Gowther has a 3000 powerlevel or a 30000 powerlevel,certain Invasion abilities will have the same potency.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Here's a few more:

Current King vs Gloxinia
Current Diane vs Drole
2 Indura (Phase 2) vs Assault Meliodas
Gowther Senior vs Zeldris
Goddess Elizabeth vs Merlin
Everyone in the series regardless of clan vs 50% Gods
Permanent 114k Escanor vs Ludoshel (with flash)
Ludoshel + Sariel + Tarmiel (With Graces) vs Chandler, Cusack and Zeldris.
Entire Goddess Clan (minus SD) vs Demon King (50%)
Entire Demon Clan (minus DK) vs Supreme Goddess (50%)

If have been asked or responded to before, ignore them please.

The Everyone/Entire clans vs Gods scenarios include everyone in the series who has been revealed.

Even If the person is dead (e.g Mael) or seems to be shy to fight (e.g Elizabeth) treat it as they are fully alive in their prime and blood thirsty to fight.

This will be interesting

 

[Bøjan]

Here's a few more:

Current King vs Gloxinia
Current Diane vs Drole
2 Indura (Phase 2) vs Assault Meliodas
Gowther Senior vs Zeldris
Goddess Elizabeth vs Merlin
Everyone in the series regardless of clan vs 50% Gods
Permanent 114k Escanor vs Ludoshel (with flash)
Ludoshel + Sariel + Tarmiel (With Graces) vs Chandler, Cusack and Zeldris.
Entire Goddess Clan (minus SD) vs Demon King (50%)
Entire Demon Clan (minus DK) vs Supreme Goddess (50%)

If have been asked or responded to before, ignore them please.

The Everyone/Entire clans vs Gods scenarios include everyone in the series who has been revealed.

Even If the person is dead (e.g Mael) or seems to be shy to fight (e.g Elizabeth) treat it as they are fully alive in their prime and blood thirsty to fight.

This will be interesting

Oh wow those are a lot

King wields the spirit spear on par with Gloxinia, but Gloxinia is still stronger than
him at least for now.

Drole easily, his base is much better than Diane's and he can dance too.

(I estimate Phase 2 indura to be 120k or so) so they'd get oneshotted one by one.

Honestly idk, Gowther had crazy strong magic as we know but Zeldris isn't weak either. I think he'd lose to Gowther unless he uses his 2nd Demon mark and DK power.

If Merlin manages to trap her in a Perfect Cube then it's gg for Elizabeth.

Unless everyone can combine their power in one attack then they'd get oneshotted easily and they can't even hurt the gods individually.

Escanor has more power than Ludociel, but at the same time we don't know how fast Flash makes him go. For now i will say Escanor.

By my estimate they are literally equal, so it could go either way.

Same as the first fight with God/Gods, as i explained with the combined attack, otherwise it's a onesided slaughter.

Same as the first fight with God/Gods, as i explained with the combined attack, otherwise it's a onesided slaughter.

 

[Raiyan]

Here's a few more:

Current King vs Gloxinia
Current Diane vs Drole
2 Indura (Phase 2) vs Assault Meliodas
Gowther Senior vs Zeldris
Goddess Elizabeth vs Merlin
Everyone in the series regardless of clan vs 50% Gods
Permanent 114k Escanor vs Ludoshel (with flash)
Ludoshel + Sariel + Tarmiel (With Graces) vs Chandler, Cusack and Zeldris.
Entire Goddess Clan (minus SD) vs Demon King (50%)
Entire Demon Clan (minus DK) vs Supreme Goddess (50%)

If have been asked or responded to before, ignore them please.

The Everyone/Entire clans vs Gods scenarios include everyone in the series who has been revealed.

Even If the person is dead (e.g Mael) or seems to be shy to fight (e.g Elizabeth) treat it as they are fully alive in their prime and blood thirsty to fight.

This will be interesting

Gloxinia...Like Bojan said he's on par but Glox is 1 step ahead and is more durable than King.

Drole is much more durable and his base is higher than Diane and we never get to see his Gaia form in the series ..So yeah I'll go with him.

AM

Can't say for sure but Gowther isn't a physical fighter like Zel + he's on a Fu*king floating wheelchair but in the other hand he was Confident enough to take Zeldris with "GOD" and DK saw potential on him to make him a 10C. I'll go with Gowther but may change my mind until I see Zel at full power.

Merlin. She got too many things in her arsenal.

Haven't seen SD power yet + we don't know how the ruler works. So both Gods win.

Escanor unitl we get more info about how flash works

Can go either way but I'm betting on the demons cause of True night.

by entire you mean AA also?? Again The Ruler is a broken power until we know more can't say for sure.

Demon wins cause I don't think SD is gonna fight them hand to hand (really wanna see those bouncing beauties )

 

[Shutensatsu]

King is on par with Gloxinia now. Gloxinia would win until he grows the wings fully. That will be the moment he surpasses him officially, not before. Gloxinia wins.

Diane has to dance to get to his base. Drole has his base and can dance on top of that. Drole wins.

Meliodas oneshot punches them both.

Zeldris is stronger, but Gowther can oneshot anyone if he gets the mind control off. Going to go with Zeldris. His mobility is too low to successfully get off a invasion against Zeldris, and Zeldris can arguably counter anything but his strongest invasion attacks with his demon king magic. People forget he had puppet Gowther with him, when he challenged Zeldris in the story.

Merlin. Merlin is basically a weaker Chandler. Insane versatility. All of her spells also last forever. Merlin is not a demon, and Eli isn’t a combatant, not can she purify her. Merlin all day.

The gods wipe them out in seconds.

Leaning torwards Escanor. Ludo said Late Morning Sunshine is supposed to provide enough power to defeat him.

Team demons beat team archangel. Chandler and Cusack are definitely strong enough to escape from the Enlil dimension. You only need 88K, and they can definitely nullify their shield and phasing with their darkness. Zeldris with the second mark should be even stronger than the both of them. Ludo is a ? mark but even if Zeldris can’t beat him on his own once Chandler/Cusack finish beating the wonder duo it’s over.

The Demon King oneshots. Groups of fodder can do nothing against someone overwhelmingly stronger.

The Supreme Deity oneshot s. Groups of fodder can do nothing against someone overwhelmingly stronger.

 

[Mythoclast]

Current King vs Gloxinia

Gloxinia wins with high-extreme diff.

Current Diane vs Drole

Dolor doesn't even need his dance to beat her.

2 Indura (Phase 2) vs Assault Meliodas

AM Mel high diffs

Gowther Senior vs Zeldris

Zeldris.As for the difficulty,idk.

Goddess Elizabeth vs Merlin

Merlin pretty easily.

Everyone in the series regardless of clan vs 50% Gods

The Gods

Permanent 114k Escanor vs Ludoshel (with flash)

Escanor,as of now.That'll probably change future tho.

Ludoshel + Sariel + Tarmiel (With Graces) vs Chandler, Cusack and Zeldris.

I'm leaning towards the Archangels due to their dimension,but it could go either ways with extreme diff.

Entire Goddess Clan (minus SD) vs Demon King (50%)

The Demon King

Entire Demon Clan (minus DK) vs Supreme Goddess (50%)

The Supreme Deity

 

[Shadowlord123]

Current King vs Gloxinia
Current Diane vs Drole
2 Indura (Phase 2) vs Assault Meliodas
Gowther Senior vs Zeldris
Goddess Elizabeth vs Merlin
Everyone in the series regardless of clan vs 50% Gods
Permanent 114k Escanor vs Ludoshel (with flash)
Ludoshel + Sariel + Tarmiel (With Graces) vs Chandler, Cusack and Zeldris.
Entire Goddess Clan (minus SD) vs Demon King (50%)
Entire Demon Clan (minus DK) vs Supreme Goddess (50%)

- King isn't at the same level as Gloxinia for the moment. When his wings fully grow he will surpass him no doubt, but right now King has a 41K power level and Gloxinia has 50K. Gloxinia wins this, high difficulty at most.

- Drole would probably beat her without dancing, tbh. The max Diane has showed with dancing is 48K, Drole has 54K without dancing. Again, in EoS Diane will end up being probably stronger than Drole, but right now Drole takes this with mid difficulty.

- Phase 2 Indura (if we're talking to the likes of Monspiet and Derriere) is more or less on the same league as 114K Escanor for me. Meliodas wins with mid difficulty at most.

- OG Gowther seemed to be pretty confident in fighting him, but I doubt he's 90-100K like what I give to Zeldris with his second stage demon mark+God. Zeldris takes this with high difficulty, he should be faster and stronger than him and if he touches OG Gowther it's probably over because he can seal magic away

- I think Merlin takes this until we get to see more of Eli's feats as a goddess.

- Like it has been said, unless they can somehow combine their attacks all together, the Gods should take this.

- Right now, I'm giving it to Escanor with high difficulty. Even though my opinion could change depending on what Flash does at full power.

- I'm giving it to the demons with probably high to extreme difficulty. They have overall more versatility in their powers and Full Counter and Chibi The Ruler are going to be a pain in the ass to deal for the AA, who are overall magic oriented fighters. Plus, they have True Night, which boosts their power even more.

- Both Gods should be able take the last two versus.