Nurmeedurrp thread.

[Kaiten]

Re: Everything All The Time

So why should one root for Arsenal? Other than being a masochist?

Johnny Rotten was a supporter

Arent they the moneyball team?

We are also the only English team to have never been relegated. So thats something! It might get depressing but it never gets that bad!

Arsenal is the team Kroenke owns, no?

I watched the film but I havent read hte book, the film was quite good. I suppose keeping the players is the most difficult part of it. I think liverpool followed that moneyball approach for a while and that is what led to Downing, Henderson and Carroll. xD I'm guessing baseball is less egalitarian than other american sports?

Moneyball stats are awesome. Stats mean more in baseball than in any other sport though. The moneyball stats actually say a lot more about players than traditional ones. If you ever want to know the best all around baseball players, check wins above replacement (WAR). Never fails.

Baseball only has the barest of redistribution systems. Football has the most. Not only a salary cap, but teams can not even strike their own media distribution deals. Television contracts are worked out by the league, and money distributed evenly between teams. Player contracts are not fully guaranteed either, when players are cut, most of their contract is voided, no different than anyone else laid off or fired. All easier to do when teams only play 16 games a year.

Television contracts for baseball teams have exploded in recent years. Even some of the small market teams have been able to take advantage. Sports is the last refuge of live TV. Advertisers don't have to worry about viewers watching on demand, or DVR, and skipping commercials. Baseball is the most popular sport where the teams strike individual local television contracts. The Los Angeles Dodgers just struck a deal worth between $7 and $8 billion (over the lifetime of the contract), expected to be worth $350 million a year. Most of the big market teams are beginning to cash in. There is a huge discrepancy between the have's and have nots. It's shrunk, to some degree, with smart teams (like Oakland or Tampa Bay) able to identify and sign talent with a small budget. Tampa is even pretty good about keeping their best players, though only a select few.

Is there any significant pressure to introduce a cap? Personally salary caps are the best thing about American sports imo.

During the 1994 season, fearing the owners would insist on a salary cap in their next contract, the players went on strike. The players won. The new contract did not contain a salary cap, and the owners have not dared ask for one ever since. The baseball union is much older, and much stronger than those in other sports.

 

[riki]

Re: Everything All The Time

 

[Doraku]

Re: Everything All The Time

I wish stats based analysis which was used in Moneyball can be successfully applied to soccer. Juergen Klinsmann went to America to do this thing, but unfortunately his effort to bring American sport sciences to Europe was futile.

 

[xi0]

Re: Everything All The Time

I wish stats based analysis which was used in Moneyball can be successfully applied to soccer. Juergen Klinsmann went to America to do this thing, but unfortunately his effort to bring American sport sciences to Europe was futile.

He did? I think I heard something similar. To me, as someone who played a bunch of different sports...I sort of scoff at sabermetrics, because it's a game, not math. However, the business side always takes precedent, and because it "works", and I say "works" because the Oakland A's have never had the ultimate success using this method.

Though I wonder if it could be applied to different sports with the same results as baseball. Who knows really, it's a bit over my head.

 

[Doraku]

Re: Everything All The Time

Considering that I witnessed several sport teams which are using sabermetrics - not professional teams, though - are quite successful, I believe that the usage of statistic in sport is not something I'd hate. So in general I think if the team's budget can be used more efficiently, why not?

---------- Post added at 11:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ----------

on completely unrelated note, Minami-ke is funnier than ever.

 

[Imperium]

Re: Everything All The Time

So how excited is Baltimore getting for this weekend?

Johnny Rotten was a supporter

We've had an eclectic mix of alleged supporters. Ranging from Osama bin laden to the Queen.

Arsenal is the team Kroenke owns, no?

He owns around two thirds of the shares, the rest is owned by a shady soviet uzbek billionaire, Alisher Usmanov.

 

[Charlie]

Re: Everything All The Time

Pfft billions - now that something a percent of what I'd like to see. But regarding the game - I don't feel like Baltimore will win - not to say that cant.
Just a pre game hunch or premonition thing if you will as of right now.

Who is favored?

 

[Imperium]

Re: Everything All The Time

How accurate are you pre game hunches usually?

 

[Charlie]

Re: Everything All The Time

How accurate are you pre game hunches usually?

I would not put much stake in it.

 

[Nuno]

Re: Everything All The Time

That seems to happen to a bunch of players who come to Madrid. Stars becoming roleplayers. Hopefully he'll be in form for the World Cup, would be cool to see him perform well...so we don't have to hear about Neymar for months

Fo'sho. Too bad Arsenal v Liverpool is being played at the same time. Luckily it's being replayed later that night. Coppa Italia is on after the Clasico too, Inter v Roma. It'll be cool to see Michael Bradley play. It would great to see the team get enough points for the Europa League.

Who else has gone from so godly to so average? I can't think of any... Maybe my mind is dull. Kaka got destroyed by injuries and never finding back to his form. It's not Madrid's fault. It's not like Madrid has forced him to stay for so long. Kaka hasn't used the transfer windows because he loves the club and its players.

Who cares about Arsenal v Pool, the latter is a joke of a team. I hope Arsenal keeps a clean sheet and keeps Suarez at bay, so I get good stats in the fantasy league.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: Everything All The Time

He did? I think I heard something similar. To me, as someone who played a bunch of different sports...I sort of scoff at sabermetrics, because it's a game, not math. However, the business side always takes precedent, and because it "works", and I say "works" because the Oakland A's have never had the ultimate success using this method.

Though I wonder if it could be applied to different sports with the same results as baseball. Who knows really, it's a bit over my head.

Every action in baseball can be quantified numerically. Stats mean everything in baseball, always have, always will. Batting average, ERA, runs batted in, and other traditional stats are still math. Sabrmetrics are simply better math, accounting for more variables, and allowing a better understanding of performance.

Advanced statistics only work for baseball. Baseball is the only sport that can be completely expressed by numbers. There is no way to numerically quantify how well basketball players set screens, route running in football, etc. In most sports there are to many things happening away from the play, that can not be computed statistically. In baseball everything can, including fielding.

Baseball teams can not be judged based on titles. Playoffs did not even exist until 1969. Franchise success is best measured by division titles (league titles before 1969) and number of winning seasons. By that measure the A's have been an incredibly successful franchise under Billy Beane.

Trading star players, or allowing them to leave as free agents, is nothing new for the Athletics. That's how they've operated for 100 years, since Connie Mack broke up the first dynasty in 1914.

He owns around two thirds of the shares, the rest is owned by a shady soviet uzbek billionaire, Alisher Usmanov.

Would I be wrong to say that shady billionaires from former Soviet Republics and Middle Eastern oil billionaires have major financial stakes in European Football?

 

[gnut]

Re: Everything All The Time

5 1/2 more dayz...keep it together bro...

 

[Kaiten]

Re: Everything All The Time

I've already moved on to basketball, and Spring Training's right around the corner.

 

[xi0]

Re: Everything All The Time

Considering that I witnessed several sport teams which are using sabermetrics - not professional teams, though - are quite successful, I believe that the usage of statistic in sport is not something I'd hate. So in general I think if the team's budget can be used more efficiently, why not?

---------- Post added at 11:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ----------

on completely unrelated note, Minami-ke is funnier than ever.

It's best applied in those cases. When you have more money than god, it's not really necessary to run a team that way.

Ah cool!

So how excited is Baltimore getting for this weekend?

There was a send-off parade for the team today down in the harbor before they caught their flight to New Orleans. My brother actually asked if I wanted to go, and then I slapped him around a bit for being stupid. It coincided with some icy weather, so that made it even worse of an idea.

Who else has gone from so godly to so average? I can't think of any... Maybe my mind is dull. Kaka got destroyed by injuries and never finding back to his form. It's not Madrid's fault. It's not like Madrid has forced him to stay for so long. Kaka hasn't used the transfer windows because he loves the club and its players.

Who cares about Arsenal v Pool, the latter is a joke of a team. I hope Arsenal keeps a clean sheet and keeps Suarez at bay, so I get good stats in the fantasy league.

Well yeah, that's injuries playing a part as well I guess. Just coincidence I guess?

Oh yes, I'll make sure I cater my viewing habits to your fantasy team. Sure.

Every action in baseball can be quantified numerically. Stats mean everything in baseball, always have, always will. Batting average, ERA, runs batted in, and other traditional stats are still math. Sabrmetrics are simply better math, accounting for more variables, and allowing a better understanding of performance.

Advanced statistics only work for baseball. Baseball is the only sport that can be completely expressed by numbers. There is no way to numerically quantify how well basketball players set screens, route running in football, etc. In most sports there are to many things happening away from the play, that can not be computed statistically. In baseball everything can, including fielding.

Baseball teams can not be judged based on titles. Playoffs did not even exist until 1969. Franchise success is best measured by division titles (league titles before 1969) and number of winning seasons. By that measure the A's have been an incredibly successful franchise under Billy Beane.

Trading star players, or allowing them to leave as free agents, is nothing new for the Athletics. That's how they've operated for 100 years, since Connie Mack broke up the first dynasty in 1914.

What? How can fielding be accounted for mathematically so precisely? It accounts for every variable? What a player did the night before? Him wearing a new pair of cleats that he hasn't broken in fully yet? Him forgetting to put down his shades of a fly ball lost in the sun? C'mon . The game is played every day for 5+ months essentially. While I don't sneeze at sabermetrics or advanced statistics, I can't accept that it accounts for EVERY variable in a game. It just doesn't sounds reasonable to me. Maybe I'm wrong.

I think I have heard of it being used in other sports though, and considering how many tertiary stats there are in soccer I don't know it's beyond the realm of possibility that it can be applied in some of the same ways. It did come from business after all.

Sure a team can be judged on titles. You just proved my point by pointing out League Pennants and Division titles. That's not the same as that ugly World Series trophy, but it sure accounts for something. The fact that you're playing another month of winning baseball and having a roster deep enough to do so. The Oakland A's have won ONE postseason series under Billy Beane's watch. Most owners and GMs do care about winning, but to stay afloat they have to be solvent, and that is what sabermetrics helps a team to do more than anything. Bill James and Billy Beane have revolutionized the way many front offices do things, especially the ones that can't begin to compete with the wallets of the big-market teams. I just question what the results really are. If you're a GM, your job is to be under budget and win games. Sabermetrics does one of those things quite well, and the other...I mean, if all you care about is winning percentage in the regular season, fine. But if you're a fan of a baseball team, you want to see your team play well into October and for some fanbases, that's all that really matters. So the math-geeks can kneel at the altar of Billy Beane all they want, but it helps when you have the likes of Tim Hudson, Mark Mulder, and Barry Zito taking the ball every fifth day to stop the bleeding. The only thing that REALLY matters is starting pitching and it doesn't take VORP, WAR, or whatever boring acronym for advanced statistics you want to use to figure that out, in my opinion.

 

[Nuno]

Re: Everything All The Time

The fantasy team part wasn't serious. However I wouldn't get hyped over any Liverpool game. Liverpool can play an occasional good match due to the single good and decisive player they have - Suarez, but other than that they are a middle-tier team. Had you said "United vs City" or "Arsenal vs Chelsea" I would have understood the hype. Unless you have some ties to Pool.

I don't know the details surrounding Kaka too well, but why wouldn't it be a coincidence? It's in Madrid's best interest that he recovers his form and plays at his best. That was especially true in the past. Kaka was an expensive signing and is loved by the fans, and has been given high amount of freedom in terms of the transfer windows. Madrid could have sold him in any of the transfer windows, but has given him full decision power, and so far Kaka has chosen to stay, and it looks like it won't change in this window either perhaps.

 

[xi0]

Re: Everything All The Time

I don't know...just saying I would have tuned in...

Well, we started the convo by saying he got swallowed up in the logjam of talent at Madrid. I conveniently forgot about his injuries I guess, so that's something else entirely.

 

[Nuno]

Re: Everything All The Time

Özil's playmaker spot is essentially his main competition, and Özil has overall played really well after coming to Madrid. But there's always room for more, and for rotation. Kaka has struggled to even be substituted when Özil goes off after 70ish minutes. Now we have Modric too, but I'd rather see Kaka get some time on the pitch during less intense games. Lately Özil's a beast in combination with Ronaldo. Looks like they've finally found back to last year's form. The Classico will be really interesting considering Madrid can't use several key players, not ideal.

 

[xi0]

Re: Everything All The Time

Özil's playmaker spot is essentially his main competition, and Özil has overall played really well after coming to Madrid. But there's always room for more, and for rotation. Kaka has struggled to even be substituted when Özil goes off after 70ish minutes. Now we have Modric too, but I'd rather see Kaka get some time on the pitch during less intense games. Lately Özil's a beast in combination with Ronaldo. Looks like they've finally found back to last year's form. The Classico will be really interesting considering Madrid can't use several key players, not ideal.

I wonder why they bought Modric in the first place, to be honest...

 

[Nuno]

Re: Everything All The Time

Not sure either to be honest. I suppose it gives some extra security in case e.g. Özil gets injured. Overall Modric is an inferior Özil type of player, albeit still good. When Kaka doesn't have his form in, you need playmakers. Mourinho probably noticed some minor complications last season when Özil didn't play too well for a few games in a row. If you look at the squad, you see people like Di Maria who often play, but fluctuate a lot. Sometimes he delivers superb games and passes, sometimes his passes plain suck. The two REALLY stable passing machines are Özil and Alonso. In that regard Modric is great as well. However he hasn't fully adapted to the Spanish style of play and Madrid's style yet.

 

[xi0]

Re: Everything All The Time

Madrid's style