On Break One Piece Chapter 1142 Discussion

[electricmastro]

At this point I think Luffy knows his allies before actually knowing them. He literally felt this man’s energy and said I’m freeing him. I’m sorry but it’s obvious maybe Luffy is seeing into a far future ? Something has to be giving him hints on how to treat Loki .

at this point in IRL what would luffy’s dreams be like ? That would be something interesting to see

If Luffy is seeing far into the future, then how come he was surprised by what Loki just did

 

[Boagrious]

If Luffy is seeing far into the future, then how come he was surprised by what Loki just did

Luffy seems to be destined to "wing it" through sheer will, and with his devil fruit anything is possible.

The whole Loki situation is a very interesting one because Loki didn't attack anyone specifically, or attempted to kill someone so-to-speak. It was mostly a display of power to show Loki means business. Prime healthy and unbound Loki definitely constitutes a threat, and Oda just showed us a glimpse of what it could represent.

The issue lies in the choice Luffy will make based on this. There's no way I would release him fully if he's a "bad" guy. I'd have to see if I can put Loki in his place and subdue him to a certain degree with a little piece of fisted humble pie, and for Loki to cooperate. If there's no cooperation, I'd just knock him out—assuming it's possible—and shackle him up again. I mean, we just saw Luffy handle a renowned Navy Admiral into a psychologically passive state and to somehow run into a stalemate with the Gorosei. I see the picture.

Edit: But Luffy is Luffy, and we know he runs into danger head first.

 

[Idkwhatanameis]

Luffy seems to be destined to "wing it" through sheer will, and with his devil fruit anything is possible.

The whole Loki situation is a very interesting one because Loki didn't attack anyone specifically, or attempted to kill someone so-to-speak. It was mostly a display of power to show Loki means business. Prime healthy and unbound Loki definitely constitutes a threat, and Oda just showed us a glimpse of what it could represent.

The issue lies in the choice Luffy will make based on this. There's no way I would release him fully if he's a "bad" guy. I'd have to see if I can put Loki in his place and subdue him to a certain degree with a little piece of fisted humble pie, and for Loki to cooperate. If there's no cooperation, I'd just knock him out—assuming it's possible—and shackle him up again. I mean, we just saw Luffy handle a renowned Navy Admiral into a psychologically passive state and to somehow run into a stalemate with the Gorosei. I see the picture.

Edit: But Luffy is Luffy, and we know he runs into danger head first.

And with this I say Luffy will still release him. There must be some stipulation. Holy Knights are running amok and shamrock is definitely coming back. My guess is he tries to come in last minute and leave then Luffy gets to see him…. Maybe a clash or maybe he sneaks Luffy after a big fight but no one on the island compares to Luffy besides Loki I feel so it’s weird.

also remember Loki had every chance to hit Luffy but he didn’t. Chained or not I still think if he was truly evil he would still attack but maybe this is where his tricks come into play even for the reader

 

[electricmastro]

And with this I say Luffy will still release him. There must be some stipulation. Holy Knights are running amok and shamrock is definitely coming back. My guess is he tries to come in last minute and leave then Luffy gets to see him…. Maybe a clash or maybe he sneaks Luffy after a big fight but no one on the island compares to Luffy besides Loki I feel so it’s weird.

also remember Loki had every chance to hit Luffy but he didn’t. Chained or not I still think if he was truly evil he would still attack but maybe this is where his tricks come into play even for the reader

Loki is prob as evil as Kid was.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

Loki is prob as evil as Kid was.

Was there any evidence yet that Loki did actually attack / kill civilians?

 

[electricmastro]

Was there any evidence yet that Loki did actually attack / kill civilians?

I think Loki reported as having killed the king, risk Elbaf getting burnt down, and his brother describing how bad of a guy he is might suffice.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

I think Loki reported as having killed the king, risk Elbaf getting burnt down, and his brother describing how bad of a guy he is might suffice.

You know what you say about Loki could have been said about Doflamingo as well, except that he did not just risk to burn down a whole country, he actually pulled through with it (and yes Doffy‘s dad was just a former royal).

 

[electricmastro]

You know what you say about Loki could have been said about Doflamingo as well, except that he did not just risk to burn down a whole country, he actually pulled through with it (and yes Doffy‘s dad was just a former royal).

Doflamingo ended up killing two family members though, so I guess it will have to take a flashback or at least some in-depth explanation before we can give a final conclusion about Loki once and for all.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

Doflamingo ended up killing two family members though, so I guess it will have to take a flashback or at least some in-depth explanation before we can give a final conclusion about Loki once and for all.

I think it‘s just too early to rank Loki as a villain at Kid‘s level, as we currently know too little about what crimes the former actually did commit. IMO Kid is an actual villain, as he did kill people for being weak or for laughing at him / his dream. Regarding Loki, I wait a bit more before deciding if I am going to call him a villain or not.

 

[electricmastro]

I think it‘s just too early to rank Loki as a villain at Kid‘s level, as we currently know too little about what crimes the former actually did commit. IMO Kid is an actual villain, as he did kill people for being weak or for laughing at him / his dream. Regarding Loki, I wait a bit more before deciding if I am going to call him a villain or not.

That's prob the thing, Kid himself prob can't be classified as a traditional villain since he was willing to ally with Luffy, the hero, despite what he did later.

I dunno, I guess I'm saying that if Oda is trying to write Loki with Kid in mind, then I think it would make more sense why Oda is writing things this way.

 

[Boagrious]

I think Loki reported as having killed the king, risk Elbaf getting burnt down, and his brother describing how bad of a guy he is might suffice.

With the exception of commiting arson, aren't those allegations though?

The GK went directly towards Loki in order to recruit him, I think it's because of his devil fruit. Something happened where the fruit almost fell into the wrong hands and Loki took questionable actions in order to protect Elbaf's Legacy and throne. He ate the fruit. And if he did kill his father, maybe it was an accident or maybe Harald did deserve it. Maybe the World Government killed Harald for the fruit and Loki snatched it before they could, which would explain why they're trying to recruit him so intentionally.

On the subject of murder allegations:
Sabo was reportedly King Cobra's killer, Luffy was reportedly Vegapunks' killer. See the pattern? We need to hear from Loki that he didn't or did kill his father.

Loki is mischievous, like a grown adult with a toxic attention seeking disorder. He's the perfect example of a privileged kid growing up in an abusive relationship with his parents, in this case his father.

From the very beginning, Oda has been very intentional describing parent and child relationships. And lately we've seen extreme cases where the relationships are so toxic that someone ends up dying or in the verge of death.

Dragon and Luffy
Judge and Sanji
Big Mom and her children
Kaido and Yamato
Kuma and Bonney
Garp and Aokiji (sort of)
Cobra and Vivi
Imu and Gorosei
Garling and Shanks/Shamrock
Harald and Loki/Hajrudin

I'm probably missing some, but they are there.

All of that to say that it is too early to come to a conclusion and that instead of judging Loki maybe we should practice good old curiosity.

 

[zetsu banned]

At this point I think Luffy knows his allies before actually knowing them. He literally felt this man’s energy and said I’m freeing him. I’m sorry but it’s obvious maybe Luffy is seeing into a far future ? Something has to be giving him hints on how to treat Loki .

at this point in IRL what would luffy’s dreams be like ? That would be something interesting to see

He's not seeing the future, he's done this or something close enough literally every arc after he sets out to sea. Loki has a direct parallel to Zoro being tied up when Luffy first met him, and immediately came to the same conclusion. Luffy doesn't have book smarts. Or street smarts. But he does have S-tier emotional intelligence and is basically a supernaturally good judge of character. Shit he was picking fights with Lucci before even Oda knew who all of the villains were for Water 7/Enies Lobby.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

That's prob the thing, Kid himself prob can't be classified as a traditional villain since he was willing to ally with Luffy, the hero, despite what he did later.

I dunno, I guess I'm saying that if Oda is trying to write Loki with Kid in mind, then I think it would make more sense why Oda is writing things this way.

Well I should have phrased it like this: it‘s too early to tell if Loki is actually guilty of the crimes he‘s blamed and had been chained up for and thus too soon to call him a villain or to compare him to Kid. I think the Zoro comparasion is a better fit.

Thinking about Shanks and his motivation for catching Loki and taking plus eventually chaining him to Elbaf(the Adam‘s Tree), I‘m inclined to believe that Shanks had an ulterior motive for said actions which might have been to protect Loki (as he might have made himself a target while roaming the seas) and thus ensuring that he would be there to meet up with Nika eventually. I can see Shanks having deeper knowledge from another prophecy or something comparable.

 

[Zmsp]

Interesting connection: 1043 was the chapter that introduced us to Nika, and 1143 is our next chapter in line, so perhaps we might get to see Loki's "version" of the Sun God. Oda loves these things.

In fact, he loves them enough for this to be the chapter where Luffy finally frees Loki, the "Sun God".

1142/2 = 571

Guess what happens in chapter 571? Luffy frees Ace, the "original" sun god.

 

[wing_gundam]

Interesting connection: 1043 was the chapter that introduced us to Nika, and 1143 is our next chapter in line, so perhaps we might get to see Loki's "version" of the Sun God. Oda loves these things.

In fact, he loves them enough for this to be the chapter where Luffy finally frees Loki, the "Sun God".

1142/2 = 571

Guess what happens in chapter 571? Luffy frees Ace, the "original" sun god.

that's a bit of a stretch

 

[Zmsp]

that's a bit of a stretch

The Ace part? Perhaps, but not really:

- Loki is royalty, Ace was pirate royalty being the son of the Pirate King.
- Ace refused to join the Warlords, Loki just refused to join the God Knights.
- Not the best relationship with their fathers, ugh?
- Loki in chains are similar panels to the ones we saw Ace in during Impel down.
- Treasure Weapons (Hammer/Dagger).

I mean.. Ace's ultimate move was pretty much a small scale sun (Entei or w/e).

 

[wing_gundam]

The Ace part? Perhaps, but not really:

- Loki is royalty, Ace was pirate royalty being the son of the Pirate King.
- Ace refused to join the Warlords, Loki just refused to join the God Knights.
- Not the best relationship with their fathers, ugh?
- Loki in chains are similar panels to the ones we saw Ace in during Impel down.
- Treasure Weapons (Hammer/Dagger).

I mean.. Ace's ultimate move was pretty much a small scale sun (Entei or w/e).

It's a pun. Luffy is rubber.

Well I tried.

 

[WILDCARD 1 7]

Well I should have phrased it like this: it‘s too early to tell if Loki is actually guilty of the crimes he‘s blamed and had been chained up for and thus too soon to call him a villain or to compare him to Kid. I think the Zoro comparasion is a better fit.

Thinking about Shanks and his motivation for catching Loki and taking plus eventually chaining him to Elbaf(the Adam‘s Tree), I‘m inclined to believe that Shanks had an ulterior motive for said actions which might have been to protect Loki (as he might have made himself a target while roaming the seas) and thus ensuring that he would be there to meet up with Nika eventually. I can see Shanks having deeper knowledge from another prophecy or something comparable.

You know as I read this I can actually see Loki having something to do with Blackbeard as well. Maybe he has something to do with BB and Shanks fight that gave him his scar.

Though I still put Loki in the redeemable antagonist category.
And depending on how things went with him and Lola he might be more closer to Kidd ( and his relationship with Victoria) than anything.

And to play devil's advocate to your Shanks protecting Loki thing. Keep in mind Shanks didn't kill Kidd either a man who as you said killed a lot of civilians as you said.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

You know as I read this I can actually see Loki having something to do with Blackbeard as well. Maybe he has something to do with BB and Shanks fight that gave him his scar.

Though I still put Loki in the redeemable antagonist category.
And depending on how things went with him and Lola he might be more closer to Kidd ( and his relationship with Victoria) than anything.

And to play devil's advocate to your Shanks protecting Loki thing. Keep in mind Shanks didn't kill Kidd either a man who as you said killed a lot of civilians as you said.

Alright going to adress your post point by point, to some points I agree and to some not.

Shanks had his scar already when meeting Luffy (13 years ago) while Loki did roam the seas untill six years ago so for me it‘s diffucult to see a connection there.

IMO it‘s still too early to call Loki an antagonist right now as he currently did not seriously wrong anyone on Luffy‘s side, at least not since they entered Elbaf.
Truth to be told I still see him as the misunderstood prince who needs Luffy‘s help (we‘ve had tons of these cases most of the time the royals in need were females) that‘s why I‘m refusing to see him as an antagonist, at least with our current knowledge. I can even see some Ace parallels as Ace was hated for who’s son he was born and Loki is hated for being an evil prince by birth (foretold by a prophecy).
Your post helped me further understand why some users are drawing the Kid parallel but IMO the Victoria situation is a bit different from Lola and Loki. Lola had obviously no interest in Loki while we still don‘t know for sure in Victoria‘s case, I mean they just were children back then (and I take it that she did die as a child / early teen) so it‘s not certain if she still would have been opposed to being with him once both were grown ups.

Regarding Shanks, I know lots of people are currently suspecting him of being evil, ploying treacherous things and / or being in cahoots with Mary Geoise, while I easily can see where these suspicions come from I still think Shanks is ultimately on Luffy‘s side as he obviously choose to take the Nika DF away from the WG.
That said I think he has the same habit as Luffy, rather than killing his foes Shanks crushes their ambitions.

 

[SanaNeOlm]

[snip]

Regarding Shanks, I know lots of people are currently suspecting him of being evil, ploying treacherous things and / or being in cahoots with Mary Geoise, while I easily can see where these suspicions come from I still think Shanks is ultimately on Luffy‘s side as he obviously choose to take the Nika DF away from the WG.
That said I think he has the same habit as Luffy, rather than killing his foes Shanks crushes their ambitions.

In my case I don't think Shanks is "evil" in that sense but is actually just a pirate through and through. Not the Kid type but one who values his own goal before anyone else's. If others are not a threat to that goal he is willing to overlook many things and even be friendly but if one is to cross him the wrong way I'm sure he is non-forgiving and fatal.

Imo he will not be the self sacrificial pure good like "I did all that only for you" or be the secretly abhorrently evil guy some are suspecting.