On Break One Piece Chapter 1151 Discussion

[electricmastro]

So, is Loki actually going to fight a lot even though he has been wounded by Shamrock's little pet?

 

[Zmsp]

Just so you're aware....

Spoiler

This sounds nothing like what an immortal person says.
Chapter 1122.

Dude, what part of "I'm not advocating for any particular conjecture" did you not understand?
I quoted the fruit thing, mentioned these new satellite angles clouding the concept of "death", possibly validating passage of fruit power without "actual" death of an individual, and left it to your consideration to think, or not, about the angles that opens up. If you think it changes nothing regarding the argument you're having, fine, I'm not part of it.

I added that reminder in good faith, that's all.

--- Double Post Merged, Tuesday at 8:46 PM, Original Post Date: Tuesday at 8:38 PM ---

So, is Loki actually going to fight a lot even though he has been wounded by Shamrock's little pet?

I think his wounded state is probably the angle for falling under Imu's control. I guess he could just have a power that invalidates Imu's, "natural enemy" sort of thing, but you touched on a key aspect that people seem to be ignoring: he was actually stabbed by an underworld creature, so that should raise some eyebrows in terms of potential side change.

In fact, I think it's quite weird that Shamrock has Cerberus, Pluton/Hade's pet dog, but Imu is the one portrayed as the chief of this hellish power.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

Then how else is Luffy the Nika user? Can't have a fruit without the user having died.

More so, if he were alive, he wouldn't have had to leave Emeth with his King's Haki.

Nor would Roger have had to say "I wish I was around during your era" in Laughtale if Joyboy was still alive, and more so in Laughtale. He's almost definitely dead. It'd be extremely cowardly of Joyboy to have fled for 900 years simply to leave someone else to do his work.
Most characters are not immortal, so it's a safe assumption amongst many others to assume he's dead. It's been over 900 years.

That‘s definitely not what I meant. I don’t know which of my phrases made you assume I do think so. All I‘ve been saying is that we don‘t know exactly when Joyboy died.
I think as much as you that Joyboy is not around anymore. However, on a different note based on your naturally correct point that Luffy has Joyboy‘s fruit now: I do wonder if the AK did have the means to extract a Devilfruit from a user‘s body without said user having to die.

Edit: I guess the even if he died after the war part was misleading and I think it was stated already that Joyboy died during the Void Century, right, so never mind that part I said about him surviving the war hidden there . That said I still think his grave might be located on Laugh Tale.

 

[electricmastro]

Dude, what part of "I'm not advocating for any particular conjecture" did you not understand?
I quoted the fruit thing, mentioned these new satellite angles clouding the concept of "death", possibly validating passage of fruit power without "actual" death of an individual, and left it to your consideration to think, or not, about the angles that opens up. If you think it changes nothing regarding the argument you're having, fine, I'm not part of it.

I added that reminder in good faith, that's all.

--- Double Post Merged, Tuesday at 8:46 PM, Original Post Date: Tuesday at 8:38 PM ---

I think his wounded state is probably the angle for falling under Imu's control. I guess he could just have a power that invalidates Imu's, "natural enemy" sort of thing, but you touched on a key aspect that people seem to be ignoring: he was actually stabbed by an underworld creature, so that should raise some eyebrows in terms of potential side change.

In fact, I think it's quite weird that Shamrock has Cerberus, Pluton/Hade's pet dog, but Imu is the one portrayed as the chief of this hellish power.

In any case, I presume Loki heavy injury will lead into more of the Straw Hats contributing. Oda hasn’t given them power ups for nothing after all.

 

[kcd]

Gunko Imu has gotten many demon giants at her side at this point. Will be interesting to see what Gaban says to counter this, since they still have immortality.

I’m not too hopeful about Gaban’s trick since its effects didn’t last long. But if Luffy can improve on it, that would be great.

Normally, Zoan users regain consciousness quickly after being knocked out with Armament Haki, however, Conqueror’s Haki seems to keep them down longer. Maybe if Luffy combines Gaban’s method with Conqueror’s Haki, the effect could last even longer?

--- Double Post Merged, Tuesday at 10:01 PM, Original Post Date: Tuesday at 9:59 PM ---

In any case, I presume Loki heavy injury will lead into more of the Straw Hats contributing. Oda hasn’t given them power ups for nothing after all.

Seems he's like Luffy after eating meat.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

In any case, I presume Loki heavy injury will lead into more of the Straw Hats contributing. Oda hasn’t given them power ups for nothing after all.

I think we‘re going to witness Loki‘s full powers in battle. He has all the reason to fight and I take it he can deal a lot of damage even if not fully recovered.

 

[electricmastro]

Also, I can’t help but laugh at the people complaining over Yamato doing mundane things in the cover story, even citing the Germa story as a high point in what cover stories should be.

Right, as if a cover story focusing mostly on Caesar stumbling around and briefly focusing on a kidnapping that the main story could touch on just fine without it is an actual high point. lol

 

[zetsu banned]

So, is Loki actually going to fight a lot even though he has been wounded by Shamrock's little pet?

I assume the whole Luffy-forced-healing-technique is going to be the gigantic handwave for that. He's going to be able to fight, but he's going to be at a mortal injury handicap. Oda loves giving a super strong character a handicap so the reader eventually has "full power" to look forward to, and I think Loki is the most recent example. We already saw what he could do just barely being able to stand up at all and still having an ankle cuffed.

It's a Zoro-in-Arlong-Park situation for Loki.

--- Double Post Merged, Wednesday at 3:28 AM, Original Post Date: Wednesday at 3:16 AM ---

I think we‘re going to witness Loki‘s full powers in battle. He has all the reason to fight and I take it he can deal a lot of damage even if not fully recovered.

I think we'll see his half-or-so power in this fight. I don't think we'll see his full power until much later when the whole Alliance/Fleet/Whatever is utilized at once

 

[electricmastro]

I think we‘re going to witness Loki‘s full powers in battle. He has all the reason to fight and I take it he can deal a lot of damage even if not fully recovered.

And maybe still slow down to the extent that he won't be able to dodge Gunko Imu's arrows in time.

We'll have to see. In this state, I'd be willing to believe Loki can take on like three demon giants all at the same time, but would be surprising if he could take on much more.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

It's a Zoro-in-Arlong-Park situation for Loki.

We also have Wano Zoro with all bones are broken but drugs too. Heck Chopper just arrived so maybe both Loki and Gyaban will be getting some drugs to fight again. No better way for Luffy to learn than by live example on the trick to hurting immortals

 

[electricmastro]

I assume the whole Luffy-forced-healing-technique is going to be the gigantic handwave for that. He's going to be able to fight, but he's going to be at a mortal injury handicap. Oda loves giving a super strong character a handicap so the reader eventually has "full power" to look forward to, and I think Loki is the most recent example. We already saw what he could do just barely being able to stand up at all and still having an ankle cuffed.

It's a Zoro-in-Arlong-Park situation for Loki.

Except, instead of being against a few fishmen, Loki would be against dozens of demon giants + nightmare creatures + Gunko Imu, who also blasted through a giant with a shotgun.

In any case, once again, hopefully Loki doesn't get in the way of the other straw hats' spotlight. At the end of the day, it's Luffy's crew who's meant to back up Luffy the most, so while he can do attacks, he'd better not steal all the spotlight.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Except, instead of being against a few fishmen, Loki would be against dozens of demon giants + nightmare creatures + Gunko Imu, who also blasted through a giant with a shotgun.

In any case, once again, hopefully Loki doesn't get in the way of the other straw hats' spotlight. At the end of the day, it's Luffy's crew who's meant to back up Luffy the most, so while he can do attacks, he'd better not steal all the spotlight.

Oh come on...it's clearly relative strength. Zoro at that point in the story is the fodder of today's fodder so of course he wouldn't be up against anything strong by today's standards.

And of course Loki is going to be more relevant to the rest of this arc than most of the strawhats. They just can't cut it when it comes to combat. Dorry and Broggy already outshined most of the SHs in Egghead for the same reason.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

I think Usopp will lie so hard that the now comically evil giant pirates will turn around and be even more evil, when they defeat imu. So he is saving the day.

 

[Rjbtv]

Oh come on...it's clearly relative strength. Zoro at that point in the story is the fodder of today's fodder so of course he wouldn't be up against anything strong by today's standards.

And of course Loki is going to be more relevant to the rest of this arc than most of the strawhats. They just can't cut it when it comes to combat. Dorry and Broggy already outshined most of the SHs in Egghead for the same reason.

we are getting to the part of the story where the strongest of the strongest make their moves or become involved. They have to be at least as strong if not stronger than the strawhats. Weaker would not make sense.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

we are getting to the part of the story where the strongest of the strongest make their moves or become involved. They have to be at least as strong if not stronger than the strawhats. Weaker would not make sense.

From this point on in the story I agree. I don't think the non combat heavy portions of the SH crew will get fighting glory. They will likely get some task that is important to the narrative a la Chopper curing virus. In this arc I'd guess the weaker SHs will be given the goal of rescuing the kids while the strong ones do all the fighting.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Dude, what part of "I'm not advocating for any particular conjecture" did you not understand?
I quoted the fruit thing, mentioned these new satellite angles clouding the concept of "death", possibly validating passage of fruit power without "actual" death of an individual, and left it to your consideration to think, or not, about the angles that opens up. If you think it changes nothing regarding the argument you're having, fine, I'm not part of it.

I added that reminder in good faith, that's all.

I understand, but my point is those things are unique to certain characters. These are not general things that can just be applied arbitrarily.
Things that are specific to certain characters are the exception, therefore, not the rule, and can't be used as basis for an argument.
Death is the same for the 99.99999% of characters, so I won't be entertaining the idea is all I'm saying.
And the VIZ outright states Joyboy is pretty much dead.

Saturn is not 99% of character, VP isn't 99% of characters, these are extremely individual and unique circumstances where death is not as straight forward.
One is alive due to magic, and the other pretty much put his brain in a tank in order to have androids/clones take on his thoughts.
There's literally no other characters in the series whose death is philosophical.

You can't take something that's not a standard, and then apply it as a standard. VP and the Gorose's circumstances are simply not a standard. It doesn't really change the general concept of death in the series. Roger's dead, Whitebeard is dead, we don't look at them and say "hmmm Saturn's mortality changes everything.... are they really dead?"... we know they're dead because they are not like them.

 

[zetsu banned]

Except, instead of being against a few fishmen, Loki would be against dozens of demon giants + nightmare creatures + Gunko Imu, who also blasted through a giant with a shotgun.

that's just how the story's scaled up since East Blue. at the time, fishmen were literal monsters and power scaled by the author himself to be "ten times the strength of a human". that was wild shit when the world was so small.

either way what i meant was "ridiculously strong character is handicapped early on with equally ridiculous wounds so they can show off how strong they are despite it and also lead the reader to wonder how strong they are without the wounds handicap"

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

From this point on in the story I agree. I don't think the non combat heavy portions of the SH crew will get fighting glory. They will likely get some task that is important to the narrative a la Chopper curing virus. In this arc I'd guess the weaker SHs will be given the goal of rescuing the kids while the strong ones do all the fighting.

I do wonder if Usopp‘s fears are going to manifest and become a real threat to the other Strawhats. I can also picture Jinbei and Brook getting their chances in battle and maybe Usopp lands another lucky punch comparable to how he became a gamechanger on Dress Rosa.
Also I do wonder if some of the Strawhats are going to be turned into demons. At least I totally can see Loki turning into a demon even though we expect him to have blocked / survived Imu’s spell once already 14 years ago. But as we still pretty much know nothing about what happened back then it‘s naturally pure speculation on the Loki is immune to Imu‘s spell part.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I do wonder if Usopp‘s fears are going to manifest and become a real threat to the other Strawhats. I can also picture Jinbei and Brook getting their chances in battle and maybe Usopp lands another lucky punch comparable to how he became a gamechanger on Dress Rosa.
Also I do wonder if some of the Strawhats are going to be turned into demons. At least I totally can see Loki turning into a demon even though we expect him to have blocked / survived Imu’s spell once already 14 years ago. But as we still pretty much know nothing about what happened back then it‘s naturally pure speculation on the Loki is immune to Imu‘s spell part.

That would be interesting. I think Oda has a gag opportunity here where Usopps nightmares are too much for Killingham to manage or control causing him to have to focus on his own combat skills instead. As for lucky shot I don't think that applies here since Sugar was weak and would be 1 hit KO with Trebol guarding her but these guys are the exact opposite in that they're immortal and strong, so hitting them isn't the problem.

As for the SHs and others turning into demons that would be interesting to see. Could be cool if Luffy's first curing of this demonization is his own crew. On the other hand if Imu tries it and it fails could end up being like the BM Soul Pocus where certain mental state is required for the demonization to work and the SHs don't end up meeting that.

 

[zetsu banned]

I do wonder if Usopp‘s fears are going to manifest and become a real threat to the other Strawhats. I can also picture Jinbei and Brook getting their chances in battle and maybe Usopp lands another lucky punch comparable to how he became a gamechanger on Dress Rosa.
Also I do wonder if some of the Strawhats are going to be turned into demons. At least I totally can see Loki turning into a demon even though we expect him to have blocked / survived Imu’s spell once already 14 years ago. But as we still pretty much know nothing about what happened back then it‘s naturally pure speculation on the Loki is immune to Imu‘s spell part.

It's not 'pure speculation' when Gunko was just there torturing him to join the Gods Knights. Now we know that was likely Imu torturing him, there's no reason for them to be doing that if they could just turn Loki into a demon. It's evidence for me at least that Harald, and by extension Loki, were not "true kings" in the way that Imu's contract works. Dory and Broggy however, fit the bill.

Really makes me wonder about Dalton. Maybe the 20 kingdom lineage curse only works through a blood contract with Imu during the Void Century, and these new "kings" like Dalton "don't count". Conversely, Dory and Broggy could be from a kingly bloodline and were therefore subject to Imu's curse.