Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1194 Spoiler Discussion

[kkck]

I think Oda is going to make Sanji learn that Zoro managed to use Haoushoku to beat his God’s Knight opponent to make it awaken it as part of their rivalry. I still didn’t understand how it worked here for Zoro against Sommers. The chapter translation is very unclear.

I haven't given that much thought but.. wouldn't it make more sense if both are defeated simultaneously? Luffy and loki are in enough trouble as is and if sommers is defeated before killingham then his reaction might be problematic. Whereas two knights dying simultaneously would create a much bigger reaction than when harald died and give them a much needed opening. If not get imu to retreat immediately. That said, I don't think zoro is done training yet.

--- Double Post Merged, Yesterday at 10:19 PM, Original Post Date: Yesterday at 10:12 PM ---

Hmm, the recently posted translation seems more clear cut on what mihawk was saying. Though I can't say it's too different from what we already knew.

 

[SanaNeOlm]

That make me impress more, its mean he just pure hardwork, it show u not need CoC to be elite, we do have lot right hand yonko dont have CoC, n seem most admirals also dont have it,,

Yeah but it's a trend isn't it?
First it was Devil Fruits especially Logia, then it was Haki and now CoC-Haki. There is an upward trend in power and abilities that come with it. I think only Buggy might end in end game through sheer luck without any of those.

 

[Trip_LLL]

I think Oda is going to make Sanji learn that Zoro managed to use Haoushoku to beat his God’s Knight opponent to make it awaken it as part of their rivalry. I still didn’t understand how it worked here for Zoro against Sommers. The chapter translation is very unclear.

It's because it didn't "work" for Zoro. The critical parts in the first translation are Zoro's "I didn't do anything different," and Mihawk's concluding line. In the other translation, Zoro doesn't understand what he did differently, implying he was doing the regular named attack, from his perspective.

Couple it with Zoro is almost always leaking it. Even the framing on Sanji is incorrect because Sanji already lost. Sanji heard Luffy say Zoro's leaking. Sanji had to ask Gaban. The rivalry's aspect was already at play in that sense. Heck even him being unable to sense the leakage while Luffy can should have been a big blow to the ego.

So, with Zoro, what he just realized is that he exerts Conq when he exerts strength. That's why the pound cannon just naturally applied it. Zoro already has an internal hieracrchy of attacks, and what he just realized is that the hierarchy informs whether or not Conq is there, because the hierarchy is informed by his own exertion of strength. So for Zoro it's just put more power into it and the haki will follow.

 

[aster4jaden]

Nice to see Sommers shit himself, he deserves to die painfully.

 

[AmyRose]

Nice to see Sommers shit himself, he deserves to die painfully.

Deffinetly, fact that Zoro used him as training dummy only add salt to the wound. But it's not like he didn't deserve it.

 

[Kurosaki_Minami]

Nice to see Sommers shit himself, he deserves to die painfully.

To go back to simplest basics, theorycrafting....

I think Sommers death will definitely affect Imu-sama, we saw that distribution of powers is kind of back and forth situation (Jai Garcia), following back to the God Valley.

Sommers will probably be left in slices, or (most probably) be disintergrated.

Question with Sanji also still stands, but I belive that he will somehow embrace even more of G66 powers (in conjunction with CH).

Have we seen any actual physical fighters use Conquers without a DF... ONLY Monkey D. Garp... Koby now, I guess...


P.S Read my long read in the "Special" part of the forum, would appreciate it, spent some time on it.

 

[The Trinity]

I think Oda is going to make Sanji learn that Zoro managed to use Haoushoku to beat his God’s Knight opponent to make it awaken it as part of their rivalry. I still didn’t understand how it worked here for Zoro against Sommers. The chapter translation is very unclear.

In replying to your reply, I think the constant flashback between how others used HK is to imply Zoro can only reference so much and accept his version of it. So, while Zoro might light a candle under Sanji, he'll have to figure out his own way of channeling HK. I like to think to stay consistent Oda won't let Zoro's HK progress directly be the catalyst for Sanj's awakening.

It seems like Zoro over thinking HK is an inhibitor to its use AND to his true character. While Zoro may be aloof he's dead serious as we've seen him willing to die in many confrontations up to this point. It's almost as if Oda is making HK access purely character compatible, i.e, Zoro not overthinking and just letting his HK flow because it was already at hand. Could be wrong lol

 

[Kurosaki_Minami]

In replying to your reply, I think the constant flashback between how others used HK is to imply Zoro can only reference so much and accept his version of it. So, while Zoro might light a candle under Sanji, he'll have to figure out his own way of channeling HK. I like to think to stay consistent Oda won't let Zoro's HK progress directly be the catalyst for Sanj's awakening.

Toreply to you Trin, I think Zoro has that innate thing, he will be okay.

It seems like Zoro over thinking HK is an inhibitor to its use AND to his true character. While Zoro may be aloof he's dead serious as we've seen him willing to die in many confrontations up to this point. It's almost as if Oda is making HK access purely character compatible, i.e, Zoro not overthinking and just letting his HK flow because it was already at hand. Could be wrong lol

I Think we are heading in a whole new thing here, where Zoro and Sanji UNDERSTAND what they and their crew is up against. I want to believe it won't be about friendly competiton any more, but about a collaborative respect and proper (BE SERIOUS MATE, as we would say in the UK) understanding. Look at BB crew or even Shank's...

Kidd and Law failed, not because they were WEAK, it's because they didn't grasp the LVL or have Respect.... IMHO

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

It's because it didn't "work" for Zoro. The critical parts in the first translation are Zoro's "I didn't do anything different," and Mihawk's concluding line. In the other translation, Zoro doesn't understand what he did differently, implying he was doing the regular named attack, from his perspective.

Couple it with Zoro is almost always leaking it. Even the framing on Sanji is incorrect because Sanji already lost. Sanji heard Luffy say Zoro's leaking. Sanji had to ask Gaban. The rivalry's aspect was already at play in that sense. Heck even him being unable to sense the leakage while Luffy can should have been a big blow to the ego.

So, with Zoro, what he just realized is that he exerts Conq when he exerts strength. That's why the pound cannon just naturally applied it. Zoro already has an internal hieracrchy of attacks, and what he just realized is that the hierarchy informs whether or not Conq is there, because the hierarchy is informed by his own exertion of strength. So for Zoro it's just put more power into it and the haki will follow.

Not sure I agree with this, power input shouldn't be what determines using Conqueror's Haki or not, otherwise all he has to do is use his strongest attacks. He should be able to do it with a basic attack just like Luffy uses it in base form.

The issue is not the strength of the attack, the issue seems to be that he just lacks control which is natural, he is only just learning he has it, and only just learning how to control it. Zoro is unable to distinguish between his Armament and Conquerors, it seems he just needs better awareness of it, and then he will be able to control it more. He is gradually getting there by the looks of it.
On top of that, just like we saw in Wano, when Luffy tried to Force non-touch Haki, he couldn't do it, and then when he needed to do it, he did it instinctively. Zoro is trying to force it, it seems perhaps, the best way to control Conqueror's is not by forcing it, at least that might be a key to it.

What may even happen is Zoro may not kill Sommers, he might just injure him critically, and then Imu, Killingham and Sommers escape or return back to the holy Land, I'd imagine since there is a pentagram in Elbaph, that is a route of escape. Not sure a Holy Knight should die so suddenly, and more so someone who has been around for a long time during flashbacks.

We are all assuming that Zoro and Sanji defeating the Knights weakens Imu and then Luffy defeats him. I would also entertain the possibility Luffy defeats Imu, and then the Knights end up leaving and escaping as an alternative to this. Will wait for a better translation since this wasn't very clear - at least, the one I read.

 

[Kurosaki_Minami]

Not sure I agree with this, power input shouldn't be what determines using Conqueror's Haki or not, otherwise all he has to do is use his strongest attacks. He should be able to do it with a basic attack just like Luffy uses it in base form.

The issue is not the strength of the attack, the issue seems to be that he just lacks control which is natural, he is only just learning he has it, and only just learning how to control it. Zoro is unable to distinguish between his Armament and Conquerors, it seems he just needs better awareness of it, and then he will be able to control it more. He is gradually getting there by the looks of it.
On top of that, just like we saw in Wano, when Luffy tried to Force non-touch Haki, he couldn't do it, and then when he needed to do it, he did it instinctively. Zoro is trying to force it, it seems perhaps, the best way to control Conqueror's is not by forcing it, at least that might be a key to it.

What may even happen is Zoro may not kill Sommers, he might just injure him critically, and then Imu, Killingham and Sommers escape or return back to the holy Land, I'd imagine since there is a pentagram in Elbaph, that is a route of escape. Not sure a Holy Knight should die so suddenly, and more so someone who has been around for a long time during flashbacks.

We are all assuming that Zoro and Sanji defeating the Knights weakens Imu and then Luffy defeats him. I would also entertain the possibility Luffy defeats Imu, and then the Knights end up leaving and escaping as an alternative to this. Will wait for a better translation since this wasn't very clear - at least, the one I read.

Do appreciate you not answering to the last comment, me being new to comment here.

That out of the way I've got a few points:
1) Let's leaving the romantic bit there - I don't think Zoro will leave some person hurting kids and families alone - it's not his way - we say in Wano
2) Zoro's natural fk everything I will persevere started from Thriller Bark
3) Zoro surerly understands that Imu is still back there with Luffy and Loki
4) Zoro believes in Sanji, they are bros
5) We don't know to the end how Pentagrams (edit here) work
6) Sanji ?

Share your thoughts please

P.S I just don't understand how you guys through Manga haven't seen the strings and knots of this C Haki being there on Wano, andnow we are talking about their development...

 

[baditz]

[/QUOTE]

Yeah but it's a trend isn't it?
First it was Devil Fruits especially Logia, then it was Haki and now CoC-Haki. There is an upward trend in power and abilities that come with it. I think only Buggy might end in end game through sheer luck without any of those.

Thats why he make it special, no DF no CoC, only him n his sword, i like if Mihawk dont have it, just rock lee like naruto, but Mihawk reach top tier spot just with hardwork, no BS boost from DF, no need destini having CoC since born.

 

[Federicoxxx]

I think Oda is going to make Sanji learn that Zoro managed to use Haoushoku to beat his God’s Knight opponent to make it awaken it as part of their rivalry. I still didn’t understand how it worked here for Zoro against Sommers. The chapter translation is very unclear.

Honestly ,,, it is so VAGUE,, not even Zoro Knew,,except until the last page, there's a text who says he pull it of, and Sommer's scary face...

I think there's a difference between simply EXPEL IT,,as Shank's did on WB ship,, or Luffy did it so many times without Knowing... and literally coating your weapons on it, Luffy's have no need to use it on swords cause he don't use them,, as much he does it on his own body.

 

[Trip_LLL]

Not sure I agree with this, power input shouldn't be what determines using Conqueror's Haki or not, otherwise all he has to do is use his strongest attacks. He should be able to do it with a basic attack just like Luffy uses it in base form.

The issue is not the strength of the attack, the issue seems to be that he just lacks control which is natural, he is only just learning he has it, and only just learning how to control it. Zoro is unable to distinguish between his Armament and Conquerors, it seems he just needs better awareness of it, and then he will be able to control it more. He is gradually getting there by the looks of it.
On top of that, just like we saw in Wano, when Luffy tried to Force non-touch Haki, he couldn't do it, and then when he needed to do it, he did it instinctively. Zoro is trying to force it, it seems perhaps, the best way to control Conqueror's is not by forcing it, at least that might be a key to it.

What may even happen is Zoro may not kill Sommers, he might just injure him critically, and then Imu, Killingham and Sommers escape or return back to the holy Land, I'd imagine since there is a pentagram in Elbaph, that is a route of escape. Not sure a Holy Knight should die so suddenly, and more so someone who has been around for a long time during flashbacks.

We are all assuming that Zoro and Sanji defeating the Knights weakens Imu and then Luffy defeats him. I would also entertain the possibility Luffy defeats Imu, and then the Knights end up leaving and escaping as an alternative to this. Will wait for a better translation since this wasn't very clear - at least, the one I read.

To be fair, Hannibal, I struggled putting my thoughts into words, and I don't think I really disagree with you.
I'll try by using your words to further express my thoughts.

power input shouldn't be what determines using Conqueror's Haki or not-->
I agree. What I'm more saying is like... what makes that tiger attack he used different than the pound cannon. It's not necessarily the power itself, but rather the implicit recognition of a hierarchy of attacks.
I know you believe there is a hierarchy of attacks. So I'm sure that you would agree that Zoro is capable of threat assessment of "I should try harder" for this situation.
I think it's the instinct to know when he needs to exert more strength. So not necessarily just power input, but it will look like that because the "recognition" that he has to use more power will drag the Conq out.

So that would be how I would correct my previous statement. The recognition of an internal hierarchy, or recognition of one's own power and the application of it, is what's pulling the Conq out. And I think that pairs better with Mihawk's rhetoric.

So, just as Sommers was observing, when Zoro needs to do something like cut the vines, he will know he has to put oomph in it, and that mental process will pull the conq out naturally.
When he needs to use Pound, he knows it requires a certain amount of muscle strength, and in doing so, the conq will come out.

Maybe we can sum it to, when Zoro recognizes he needs to exert himself more, the conq will naturally follow. And again, that fits with the phenomenon we're seeing.
And I do think it's a subconscious thought. Not a loud thought, which is why Zoro might be having trouble picking it out.

I'm just putting more thoughts into word:
What is the thought process Zoro goes through to decide if he needs Armament or not for an attack? Within that thought process is the key intention the Conq is following. Like its, it's the recognition of I have to be stronger or exude more strength/attack power/cutting power.

Maybe he has to be thinking at all times that he needs to exude strength, even if the attack he is executing doesn't have the high base power of something like pound cannon.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

The 4 panels before the last is just so badass.

Sommers better come up something far better than his stupid vine cannons and dragons because if his maki wasn't able to stop Zoro before, he is basically cooked af one way or another.

 

[NAMELESS]

This chapter was alright.

 

[Federicoxxx]

The 4 panels before the last is just so badass.

Sommers better come up something far better than his stupid vine cannons and dragons because if his maki wasn't able to stop Zoro before, he is basically cooked af one way or another.

The man is a GK,, Got a DF, Got Infinite Regen, Got Buffed, got a Mystical Sword.... cmon men... how many addons do you need!?.. if i were Imu's and he cant beat zoro...fk him ....too bad his death it is also goin to affect him...

 

[669ako]

In replying to your reply, I think the constant flashback between how others used HK is to imply Zoro can only reference so much and accept his version of it. So, while Zoro might light a candle under Sanji, he'll have to figure out his own way of channeling HK. I like to think to stay consistent Oda won't let Zoro's HK progress directly be the catalyst for Sanj's awakening.

It seems like Zoro over thinking HK is an inhibitor to its use AND to his true character. While Zoro may be aloof he's dead serious as we've seen him willing to die in many confrontations up to this point. It's almost as if Oda is making HK access purely character compatible, i.e, Zoro not overthinking and just letting his HK flow because it was already at hand. Could be wrong lol

I thought people think zoro have flow emission armament.

Why he struggle to coat his swords with conqueror. Lol

 

[XXGenesis]

My last complaint, as everyone deservingly so is. Zoro stopped King’s sword from grabbing his blades with ACoC emission to bounce him back……Any ways, Best exposition from this chapter for me is that Zoro’s power is inconsistent! & Using CoC is about having a Sense of Self. Kool both make sense. Still dislike how Sommers is combat wise despite buff’s….Still one of my fav characters but damn, Oda really made bro more analytical but slow asf!!!

 

[AmyRose]

I love that Sommers failed to notice that he REALLY is just practice dummy for Zoro. And what's even more hilarious is that only immortality keep him alive. Zoro basicaly "killed" him few times already and that STILL didn't gave Sommers idea that mayby he should start dodging just in case. Btw, Sommers said his thorns are as hard as iron. Well, then they wouldn't do shit to Zoro because he was able to cut iron since Arabasta. Anyway, I'm absolutly NOT cheering on Sommers but honestly if he want to survive he should be serious. Because at this pace he'll be dead before next chapter will be half way through but mayby that would be good. More time for Sanji or mayby Luffy and Loki if we would get lucky. That "Huh" when Luffy tried to maintain his G5 form still bothers me.

 

[Federicoxxx]

I love that Sommers failed to notice that he REALLY is just practice dummy for Zoro. And what's even more hilarious is that only immortality keep him alive. Zoro basicaly "killed" him few times already and that STILL didn't gave Sommers idea that mayby he should start dodging just in case. Btw, Sommers said his thorns are as hard as iron. Well, then they wouldn't do shit to Zoro because he was able to cut iron since Arabasta. Anyway, I'm absolutly NOT cheering on Sommers but honestly if he want to survive he should be serious. Because at this pace he'll be dead before next chapter will be half way through but mayby that would be good. More time for Sanji or mayby Luffy and Loki if we would get lucky. That "Huh" when Luffy tried to maintain his G5 form still bothers me.

Im pretty sure He CAN'T DODGE,,or BLOCK even if he wanted it... the only thing keeping him alive it is his crazy REGEN,,,and using GRAM added to all of that, it is still not enough...Zoro is lost in toughts about how he can improve himself.. in the past chapter,, he was even grabbing his CHIN thinking while surrounded by THORNS,,,thats how much "Worried" he is from Sommer's... he doesnt only want to beat Sommer's , now that he have an inmortal dummy,, he need to take the chance,,to understeand how COC, coating works.... that's the only worry, and he seems he pull it off in the last panel...even Sommer's realize it. ...even using GRAM.. Combined with his DF. Sommer's swordmanship IT IS ABSOLUTLY DOG SHIT HORRIBLE....

Unless something else happens...Sommer's is finished... dead man walking by the next chapter.