Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1196 Spoiler Discussion

[Rein Avara]

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[animeangryfan4]

So no awakening haki yet, but the first stage of overcoming his "emotional weakness" is done? or is there more to it. And why did people think Sanji should "come out as an Okama", there is a limit to outrageous theories out there you know, is what I want to say, but so many wanted Cesar to be an nakama so anything can happen. Got to admit some of Ivankov words confused me a little. Sanji saying he would die for Nami and Robin yet Ivankov saying that is not strenght. Sometimes, I wonder if a King Haki user is one that do not sacrfice themselevs at all, because some that has it is shown to not be sacrficical rather unbreakable walls to protect thoose they care for or wish to. So should they be a protector with the intent to remain unbreakble ratehr tehn a protector ready to die any day? Eitehr way, as usual Sanji get the slower treatment. And now its break again as expected. One or two chapters left maybe, then finally Sanji soar like the King he should be.

 

[Zmsp]

The problem of having a weakness is that you might be never aware of it; until someone tell you about it.. and you begin to try to fix it..

I have no idea if Erasing this weakness might unlock supreme coc on him...but it seems supreme coc is tied to a certain mental state or clarity to awaken it... considering you have it first of course... Some's do it by instinct like happened with Luffy in Marineford or Fishman island.. and others needs to clean their own mental blocks and inner weakness for it.

Mate, we're talking about someone with low self esteem/not valuing himself/whatever Oda is going for, likely due to a traumatic upbringing.

Sanji suddenly realizes that Iva once told him he doesn't value himself, so he suddenly values himself and gets whatever powerup he's about to get (coc ou not) to beat his opponent.

We all love Oda, but how's this not shitty narrative?

 

[Federicoxxx]

Mate, we're talking about someone with low self esteem/not valuing himself/whatever Oda is going for, likely due to a traumatic upbringing.

Sanji suddenly realizes that Iva once told him he doesn't value himself, so he suddenly values himself and gets whatever powerup he's about to get (coc ou not) to beat his opponent.

We all love Oda, but how's this not shitty narrative?

Mostly cause we cant have another train skip
.of zoro lets say meditating non stop to unblock it... to give it more sense.. to find himself..

mostly cause it cant be achieved trough training

 

[Trip_LLL]

Mate, we're talking about someone with low self esteem/not valuing himself/whatever Oda is going for, likely due to a traumatic upbringing.

Sanji suddenly realizes that Iva once told him he doesn't value himself, so he suddenly values himself and gets whatever powerup he's about to get (coc ou not) to beat his opponent.

We all love Oda, but how's this not shitty narrative?

I think we can all tell that these realizations are coming quickly because of rushing, especially in this era of extremely frequent breaks. So I think most of us can acknowledge that.
But I can tell you how it's not a shitty narrative from the perspective of an editor in a business.
1. In real life, is it impossible for people to have sudden epiphanies/break throughs during extremely dire circumstances? No. In our world, many people position their turnarounds coming at the worst moment in their lives. There's generally an instinct that people have that fiction should be a certain neat and tidy way, when the reality is that life is more varied and messy.
2. In Shonen Jump, is there a history of battlefield epiphanies? Yes. Some series link battles in the external world to the internal world very often.
3. Do the series that do in battle realizations prosper? Generally, yes. Battles are character development vehicles for battle shonen. There is no editorial reason to push back on in-battle realizations because that type of writing succeeds with the target demographic.

So fundamentally, with the struggles of maintaining One Piece in mind, this is the narrative they've chosen to do.
Now Im going to be honest. I think there's a bigger problem with the sequencing of all the POVs right now, which makes everything feel worse.
But again, I think Oda's not actually focused on Elbaf. This all reeks of setting up positions and states for the final arcs.

Also, I think part of the struggle is coming from how Oda set up the pieces before, how not neat and tidy they were, and how to some degree, it relies on annoying incompetence.
For example, Zoro forgot what Mihawk told him, except, not really. Zoro just didnt understand the significance of it.
Sanji meanwhile purposefully tried to ignore Iva, which speaks to incompetence of the self.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

Now the subsequent big elephant in the room that makes my head spin: is Sanji’s rule to never fight a woman an excuse to justify getting hit? Zoro has a very strong approach on not hitting a woman yet he never ended up in the same kind of situations where he gets beaten and about to die like Sanji with Kalifa or Black Maria. If Zoro cannot leave and needs to hit a woman to survive, he will do it because it is necessary. The whole situation at Punk Hazard and his final speech to Monet and Tashigi was very enlightening, and it is an interesting case to approach Sanji’s weakness.

 

[Keeper of Jericho]

All this conqueror's haki bullshit, when I'd be happy just having one instance of Nami with some armament haki having a decent one-on-one with someone, anyone. (Not saying Nami should start punching things, but to up her defence stats with coa while keeping her climatact for the offense.)

 

[NAMELESS]

I'm really liking the character development Sanji is getting in this arc. After what happened to him in WCI, I'm looking forward to seeing a more mature and emotionally stable Sanji.

 

[ViscountVivaciousVirtuoso]

kind of lame if that's all there is to the big "revelation" regarding Sanji ... about protecting his face ...

it's like saying he was boxing without holding guard

 

[AmyRose]

Sanji: Ok, now I will dodge.
*proceeds to run circles around killinham*
Sanji: Still no idea of how conqueror haki works.

Ha, good one. But we'll see about that if by the end of the chapter Sanji will have black lightnings around like Zoro in previous one. Ehh, couldn't raws come bit faster this time?

 

[TitaniumOxide]

I think we can all tell that these realizations are coming quickly because of rushing, especially in this era of extremely frequent breaks. So I think most of us can acknowledge that.
But I can tell you how it's not a shitty narrative from the perspective of an editor in a business.
1. In real life, is it impossible for people to have sudden epiphanies/break throughs during extremely dire circumstances? No. In our world, many people position their turnarounds coming at the worst moment in their lives. There's generally an instinct that people have that fiction should be a certain neat and tidy way, when the reality is that life is more varied and messy.
2. In Shonen Jump, is there a history of battlefield epiphanies? Yes. Some series link battles in the external world to the internal world very often.
3. Do the series that do in battle realizations prosper? Generally, yes. Battles are character development vehicles for battle shonen. There is no editorial reason to push back on in-battle realizations because that type of writing succeeds with the target demographic.

So fundamentally, with the struggles of maintaining One Piece in mind, this is the narrative they've chosen to do.
Now Im going to be honest. I think there's a bigger problem with the sequencing of all the POVs right now, which makes everything feel worse.
But again, I think Oda's not actually focused on Elbaf. This all reeks of setting up positions and states for the final arcs.

Also, I think part of the struggle is coming from how Oda set up the pieces before, how not neat and tidy they were, and how to some degree, it relies on annoying incompetence.
For example, Zoro forgot what Mihawk told him, except, not really. Zoro just didnt understand the significance of it.
Sanji meanwhile purposefully tried to ignore Iva, which speaks to incompetence of the self.

I think you're very on point with this analysis.

Personally though, I think it isn't so much that fortifying his mind after an epiphany and subsequently unlocking a powerup is why people are having such a huge gripe with this. And while I 100% agree that the way Oda is putting all the different narratives together is not helping the situation...I feel that that also is not the main reason why people is not enjoying this because Oda has done this before...jumping from character to character. He does it a lot so we have already dealt with that.

I think it is because CoC is involved in the powerup. I can't say for sure but a different powerup not involving CoC might vibe better with people. Like I said before, this feels forced. Sanji should get this upgrade but not like this. Oda could easily use the same situation and have Sanji realize self love and thus his passion burns even hotter to the point it melts metal.

Oda really should have handled this differently imo, rush or no rush. The good news is that this only affect Sanji but overall, I am enjoying the shit outta Elbaph.

 

[Trip_LLL]

I think you're very on point with this analysis.

Personally though, I think it isn't so much that fortifying his mind after an epiphany and subsequently unlocking a powerup is why people are having such a huge gripe with this. And while I 100% agree that the way Oda is putting all the different narratives together is not helping the situation...I feel that that also is not the main reason why people is not enjoying this because Oda has done this before...jumping from character to character. He does it a lot so we have already dealt with that.

I think it is because CoC is involved in the powerup. I can't say for sure but a different powerup not involving CoC might vibe better with people. Like I said before, this feels forced. Sanji should get this upgrade but not like this. Oda could easily use the same situation and have Sanji realize self love and thus his passion burns even hotter to the point it melts metal.

Oda really should have handled this differently imo, rush or no rush. The good news is that this only affect Sanji but overall, I am enjoying the shit outta Elbaph.

To be clear, I have mixed feelings about this back half of Elbaph, and I think you would know that since we've spoken before, but just to be clear.
Anyway, I want to reply properly. For the first paragrpah, I would agree. I would suggest maybe that the first paragrahp in conjunction with the rest is making things a little worse. If we were to guage fatigue, we are kind of in a different situation than say, even Egghead.
This time, we have more Gear 5 fatigue, and we also have characters actually just standing around. In Egghead, EVERYONE was in motion. Vegapunks were being wiped out, Franky was oneshotting a Vice admiral, the giants were better utilized. Chopper blocked a Gorosei while Brook cut off his leg and so and so. Combine with the first paragraph, and the more frequent breaks and I think we're in a rougher spot, psychologically.

Second paragraph, I agree that I think CoC--and the way its venerated within the community--is a bigger mental hurdle.
I think, that right now, it is fair to say that Oda does not value CoC as much as the readers do, in a sense. And honestly, this should not be a controversial thing to say. Oda had the luxury of always knowing what CoC was. But the readers created a bigger myth about this thing over the years . I really cant stress it enough. The impact that something has in your own internal valuation system, one person probably has it all figured out after a month of thought, but the readers had to deal with Conq development dripfeed that lasted years. The myth of Conq exceeds the reality of Conq.
And even in the late game, there were still people who didn't understand the genetic component. But while we all here getting excited about who had Conq and who didnt, to Oda, Conq was the cost of entry to the final fights.

Regarding your solution, I am all for unique solutions and welcome yours. Zoro, meanwhile, should just have cut Sommers up, taken the metal heart, and tied up the rest of the pieces. Problem solved. He could have been off discovering Conq while clashing with Imu's conq.
But again, here is the problem. Blue flames, logically, can melt many metals. Sanji's already at the point that he can logically solve this problem just like Zoro is. If Sanji revealed he could melt metal, Oda would have the real world backing him up, due to the nature of ifrit jambe.
But what does that tell us? If Conq is the solution, then Oda is just laser-focused on Conq being the cost of admission.

Regarding your final paragraph, I'm a little split. If this was a development written in the notebooks, then I agree. But on the off chance that something changed for Oda in May(roughly when the altered breaks began and Oda began taking more actual restful weaks), and different choices had to be made I cannot fault him for the rush. It's also possible that he's trying to give himself more time right now by delaying the plot reveals on all the plots.
For example, what he is doing in the Chopper plot has bought him weeks of finetuning what the final result actually is, regarding that box.
Some people might think that's weird, but that's a strategy you can use when you need to spin wheels on a weekly release, but in One Piece's case, the utilization of the plot delay strategy indicates an unfortunate situation behind the scenes.
For the record, Oda does use the sillohuette strategy to give himself more time to flesh out designs. Generally, shonen jump encourages this. Dr Stone was another manga that I recall using it, off the top of my head.


For me, I was happy with Elbaph. I'm just ready to move on. The strawhats and luffy are going to be okay, there's going to be a party, we're going to Lodestar. There is no time dilation on Elbaph. The bragman's warning was just going to be a joke. Would be cool to be wrong, but I still think this is more likely than not.

 

[XXGenesis]

Why does Sanji have the longest and one of the best character development arcs in One Piece?!?! Kudo’s to the characters and all but damn if only we got some of this for the other SH .

My Oda glaze has a limit. The CoC development for the wings imo haven’t been executed well . The bread crumbs for Sanji after WCI is good writing but just like with destroying the RS against Queen, Zoro again had to re-learn or re emphasize what he developed in the last arc..

The whole not valuing yourself, & acquiring unnecessary damage; I’m not entirely mad at. Given CoC definition, reshaping one’s psychology of self in the manga world, gives immediate results lol…just again why does Sanji have the longest character arc

 

[Prince13333]

I've always been a Sanji enjoyer, but this has to be one of the shittiest character development moments in the whole manga.

I have this huge flaw, but from now on I will not have it anymore... BOOM! KICKS THE SHIT OUT OF KILLINGHAM.

??

Thing is he’s not kicking the shit out of Killingham , It’s a back and forth fight, infact This is probably Best Sanji fight in the series in terms of Action and Choreography. The Character stuff isn’t bad either. Sometimes it’s the little things that hold us back.

 

[Zmsp]

@Federicoxxx @Trip_LLL @Prince13333

We all aknowledge the mid-fight epiphany being a classic, and I'm down for it (time constraints and all) but let us not kid ourselves: I'm talking about how it's being handled.

We've had plenty of Sanji character development in the post-timeskip, and this deep rooted trauma thing has been set up, so no problems there. The way Sanji overcomes it is what's ridiculous, at least going by the spoilers: there's no catharsis, no event that allows him to process and change his mindset... He doesn't even make any realization, at least so far, he just decides he's gonna stop devaluing himself.

I do hope this gets fleshed out a bit more and I'm being overly dramatic about the initial stages of the power-up, but so far it's a big "wtf?".

 

[korwinkrulpolski]

Lately the manga is getting worse mostly because of Oda's choice. Who forced him to make conquers haki obligatory for the strongest character? At the beginning it was the feat of the few strongest but it wasn't necessary to compete with them, at least we thought that. Now he changed the game and needed to adjust Sanji for that which Is highly illogical. Sanji was always potrateyd similar to Europe's knights - as the one who put benevolent of others higher than himself.

Now every top tier has to have conqueror's and that's just boring.

I just wish the manga had already ended. Oda is stretching it, still few good things, but I wouldn't be hook up on nowadays One Piece

And the plot, story construction, is so repetitive lately. I think we can assume that both of Zoro's and Sanji's fights will end in One Chapter, finisher on one site or something like that. I just hope Oda won't screw up anything about Void Century, if the revelation about it will be bleak...

 

[Crazytype]

Lately the manga is getting worse mostly because of Oda's choice. Who forced him to make conquers haki obligatory for the strongest character? At the beginning it was the feat of the few strongest but it wasn't necessary to compete with them, at least we thought that. Now he changed the game and needed to adjust Sanji for that which Is highly illogical. Sanji was always potrateyd similar to Europe's knights - as the one who put benevolent of others higher than himself.

Now every top tier has to have conqueror's and that's just boring.

I just wish the manga had already ended. Oda is stretching it, still few good things, but I wouldn't be hook up on nowadays One Piece

And the plot, story construction, is so repetitive lately. I think we can assume that both of Zoro's and Sanji's fights will end in One Chapter, finisher on one site or something like that. I just hope Oda won't screw up anything about Void Century, if the revelation about it will be bleak...

Sanji not only needs to awaken his conquerors haki, he also needs to master it. To me it seems more like a Luffy vs Katakuri situation where it takes several chapters until he masters it. Also with Katakuri, once he is defeated there no longer is the threat of the nightmares, so I dont think this fight will end in one chapter.

 

[Federicoxxx]

 

[Neala897]

Oda justily deserve some pretty harsh critisizm but it whats going now feel more like certain character fanbase nor handling THE TRUTH. The truth being their fave not being protagonist lol

 

[Ketimatsu]

Main problem of the development is actually all the haki stuff, not Sanji's narrative, which for some reason is one of the best, if not the best of the straw hats. Throughout the whole manga it has been pretty consistent, and this perfectly makes sense. If not taking hits deliberately, he has been throwing his life away constantly. Against Jabura, he was getting on top and still went to take an uneeded blow to finish him off. In skypiea, he got grilled by Enel, not once, but twice, while he could have arguably dodged the second time. Again, in Dressrosa, his recklessness against Doflamingo almost costed him his life and he did not seem to mind.
Plus, the use of Killingham's fruit makes the flashback totally legit: it is not like Sanji suddendly remembers words from Iva, he has actually to be confronted with it. And having a sudden realization about yourself, does have arguably an immediate change of mind and effects. In terms of power ups, by OP standards, that's far from being an asspull.

 

[Dziumbranakas]

People do not seem to comprehend what CoC stands for actually.
One thing every CoC share is their unbound drive to live and live as themselves, undying resolve to themselves.
However chivalrous one may be, if he is willing to throw his life away without a fight to keep it, his good nature and intentions are worthless, as you just allow others to step over you.
This is basically Sanji, and this is what I did not pay much attention to. He was always willing to throw his life away because he has always been, it seems, suicidal. Iva seems to be the only one who saw that and that is what Sanji is afraid - to see someone past his good intentions mask and see what lies underneath.
The moment Sanji will completely refuse to die and will own himself and his fault to a tee, when he will accept his German lineage, he will unlock CoC.

That is why every top tier in OP must have CoC - only those with such gear to them can climb to the top.