One Piece Mega Convo Thread, the 2nd Chapter

[Schabrak]

Re: One Piece 575 Discussion / 576 Prediction

Moria also lost his entire crew to Kaidou eventually so fighting evenly with him still wasnt enough. Current Kaidou would stomp Moria badly just because of the yonkou factor.

Creating your own theories of how Moria has lost is good, but who said, that anybody from Morias crew was as strong as himself. Let's not forget Kaidou could have his own crew, fighting off Morias.
Here it's also shown that the giant is as strong as Whitebeard: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/06/ :P

Stop with those **** levels please... those are titles and ranks and nothing more. Yes those people are strong but not <|>|=.

 

[Primecut]

Re: One Piece 575 Discussion / 576 Prediction

Creating your own theories of how Moria has lost is good, but who said, that anybody from Morias crew was as strong as himself. Let's not forget Kaidou could have his own crew, fighting off Morias.
Here it's also shown that the giant is as strong as Whitebeard: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/06/ :P

Stop with those **** levels please... those are titles and ranks and nothing more. Yes those people are strong but not <|>|=.

So Whitebeard AFTER being impaled by Squaddo is able to stop a two-handed swing from a giant. Whitebeard is only using one hand in that scan and destroys him a few pages later. Just shows how powerful a Yonkou really is although that wasnt your intent...

Kaidou crushed Moria's dreams of becoming the pirate King, thats the bottom line. If Moria couldnt keep his crew alive then he lost the war against Kaidou. If Moria came out on top then he wouldnt be relying on zombies. Heck, there is a reason why Moria has stitches holding him together and that reason has a name that starts with a K and he is one of the four yonkou.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/481/08/

He admits his crew were strong but still lost. Sorry but Kaidou > Moria, common knowledge and yonkou factor. Moria might have gave him a run for his money back in the day but Kaidou still came out on top. Now he's nearly as strong as Whitebeard and Shanks because he is in the yonkou club. He was even going to attack Whitebeard until Shanks intercepted him, he wouldnt be attacking WB if he was only as strong as Moria obviously.

 

[ZenoArmani]

Re: One Piece 575 Discussion / 576 Prediction

That one bold comment made all your long argument fail.

Because I've personally often said that it depends on the opponent, but also acknowledge that the author has shown us a rough general level? I.e. I'm not an extremist? No, not really.

Firstly there is a difference between a sword slash shockwave and a real encounter with sword vs sword.

Yes, that Mihawk's direct sword strikes likely do more damage is something I considered as well, and the only valid point Mihawk has in his favour, but the disadvantage shown against Joz was very considerable, and Mihawk himself treated the attack as a proper test of his personal power. In combination with the whole equal to Vista thing, we have been given a rough general scale by the author that we can then adjust depending on suitability.

Oda showing Mihawk in his neutral attitude, not really caring about the either side, should have showed you, that he has not gone on 100% all the time.

Mihawk was shown as focused and stated outright that he tested his personal power against the world's strongest man, and this slash was nothing to Joz.

His negligible comment about Vista has not really mentioned him being totally equal, just that he is a good swordsman. Here: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/562/11/ he hints to his next step, finishing of Vista because he has to take a postion between the shafot and the WB pirates, that he has to end the play. Or does it seem like something different?

So you're in all seriousness stating that Mihawk was toying with Vista, even though he stated that he would be a fool if he didn't recognise such a powerful swordsman, and shown as focused, or that Marco thought that Vista should be able to handle Mihawk? We get a clear draw between them, and you still rationalise it as him holding back? That's almost arguing just for the sake of being unreasonable.

His simple slash trying to cut Luffy with his sword split the whole iceberg. http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/561/06-07/

Yes, we all know that, but Joz was still completely unharmed by an apparently full-power strike, of at the very least comparable power to what he used against the genuinely outmatched Luffy (and hit the iceberg).

All I'm trying to say, that Mihawk is not < Vista, but one of the top 3 or 5 swords fighters of the world.

Probably true, and I never said he was weaker than Vista, just apparently almost dead-even.

Garp is clearly as strong as any of the admirals or else Oda would not have shown him as such in the Strong World chapter.

Agreed. We have been told that Garp was able to fight Roger in multiple confrontations, and Whitebeard did the same thing. Both apparently lost, but to even be able to pose a challenge to Roger is impressive.

How can you even judge their power based on max 10. panels... ? We would have to see them fight more than once, against different characters to be able to do it right.

All that I'm saying is that we have to go by what we have been shown, and not do our best to rationalise and ignore it.

PS: THERE ARE NO CLEAR POWER LEVELS IN ONE PIECE!

Calm down. I'm not an extremist remember? I've stated myself in the past that this doesn't work like Dragonball, but there is a major difference between that and stating that there are no general gauges whatsoever, which there very much are, or you wouldn't even be arguing for Mihawk's sake.

 

[Primecut]

Re: One Piece 575 Discussion / 576 Prediction

IMO, Kaidou was much much more stronger than Moria, same for his crew too

Here is Moria admitting he lost. So much for them being equals according to that other poster.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/456/10/

 

[Razh]

Re: One Piece 575 Discussion / 576 Prediction

He admits his crew were strong but still lost. Sorry but Kaidou > Moria, common knowledge and yonkou factor.

Praying that this term doesn't get picked up by others.

Seriously though, where are the mods? It's been going into circles for a while, with Mihawk's slash showing that Joz is stronger than him, then that Mihawk is on par with Whitebeard, then that Shanks is stronger than Mihawk...

Better stop it before it becomes really annoying.

 

[vader7476]

Re: One Piece 575 Discussion / 576 Prediction

The one thing to consider about Mihawk's slash is that Joz had to transform into diamond to take it(And it wasn't aimed at him, he intercepted it). If you recall, Mihawk's first strike on Das Bones did nothing to him. So it's pretty safe to assume that cutting Joz isn't as simple as a slash attack, and would need to be dealt with specifically(Like when Zoro learned to cut metal, it couldn't even cut a tree leaf).

Now, can Mihawk actually cut diamond? We have no idea. But I don't think that one encounter is enough to accurately gauge anything at all. Mihawk has the title of the world's strongest swordsman. Until I see him beaten by another swordsman, I'll assume that the title is correct and that no one can best him in a sword fight.

Vista and Marco went against Akainu, and we don't know the outcome of that either, or if their haki attacks did anything or not. Since Vista can use haki, I think it's safe to assume Mihawk is capable of it as well. I mean, it seems at the level these guys are at, if you can't use haki you're pretty much boned.

All in all there's not too much to go on, so I'm not totally confident in saying how strong anyone is, especially when it seems certain people match up better than others. Or how we don't know details, like how exactly Mihawk and Shanks used to duel. Was it strictly in swordplay, or would they go all out, or what?

Basically, I'm clueless, but Mihawk is pretty dang strong.

 

[ZenoArmani]

Re: One Piece 575 Discussion / 576 Prediction

The one thing to consider about Mihawk's slash is that Joz had to transform into diamond to take it(And it wasn't aimed at him, he intercepted it). If you recall, Mihawk's first strike on Das Bones did nothing to him. So it's pretty safe to assume that cutting Joz isn't as simple as a slash attack, and would need to be dealt with specifically(Like when Zoro learned to cut metal, it couldn't even cut a tree leaf).

Now, can Mihawk actually cut diamond? We have no idea. But I don't think that one encounter is enough to accurately gauge anything at all. Mihawk has the title of the world's strongest swordsman. Until I see him beaten by another swordsman, I'll assume that the title is correct and that no one can best him in a sword fight.

Vista and Marco went against Akainu, and we don't know the outcome of that either, or if their haki attacks did anything or not. Since Vista can use haki, I think it's safe to assume Mihawk is capable of it as well. I mean, it seems at the level these guys are at, if you can't use haki you're pretty much boned.

All in all there's not too much to go on, so I'm not totally confident in saying how strong anyone is, especially when it seems certain people match up better than others. Or how we don't know details, like how exactly Mihawk and Shanks used to duel. Was it strictly in swordplay, or would they go all out, or what?

Basically, I'm clueless, but Mihawk is pretty dang strong.

I liked that post. It is reasonable enough. There are probably going to be plenty of new revelations later that will have us reconsider lots of times, like when Boa Hancock suddenly "upgraded" by wiping the floor with several pacifistas at once in hand-to-hand combat, but until then I think that we should just take things mostly at the face value the author has presented, and move on. As Raz said, it's turning repetitive, and we're not likely to say anything particularly new.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

Re: One Piece 575 Discussion / 576 Prediction

All I'm trying to say, that Mihawk is not < Vista, but one of the top 3 or 5 swords fighters of the world.

Probably true, and I never said he was weaker than Vista, just apparently almost dead-even.

A useless discussion when Oda explained clearly that Mihawks was THE strongest swordman of the world.

Mihawk was shown as focused and stated outright that he tested his personal power against the world's strongest man, and this slash was nothing to Joz.

Come on, the fact that Mihawks'strongest slash cannot cut Joz's body does not mean it would have not been able to cut WB's body. This is actually the contrary : if the slash had met WB's body, he would have been cut in two parts.

We all know that WB would have not died with this strongest slash because he'd have done something. The question is what would he have done : would he have been able to stop (make totally disappear) the slash or would he have changed its direction ? That's the answer Mihawks wanted to know ; he wanted to test WB's abilities.

And about the slash being stopped by Joz's body, it is only because his body was of diamond.
We already learnt in Alabasta that Zoro'strongest slash or hit with the blade of his swords could not cut through Mr 1's metal and yet, Zoro was able to cut through metal with a less strong attack : raw strenght was not the answer to cut through metal.
I think the same works for diamond. Even if Mihawks'strongest slash cannot cut diamond, that does not mean that Mihawks cannot cut through diamond with a slash or a hit with the blade of the sword.
Actually, Mihawks can use a different attack that can only cut through diamond, like Zoro did with metal.

 

[Xenos3421]

Re: One Piece 575 Discussion / 576 Prediction

And about the slash being stopped by Joz's body, it is only because his body was of diamond.
We already learnt in Alabasta that Zoro'strongest slash or hit with the blade of his swords could not cut through Mr 1's metal and yet, Zoro was able to cut through metal with a less strong attack : raw strenght was not the answer to cut through metal.
I think the same works for diamond. Even if Mihawks'strongest slash cannot cut diamond, that does not mean that Mihawks cannot cut through diamond with a slash or a hit with the blade of the sword.
Actually, Mihawks can use a different attack that can only cut through diamond, like Zoro did with metal.

Well, except for it being a "less strong attack", i pretty much agree!

yeeeah, right, right, right, It's all a matter of "knowing" what they're going to cut and being being focused enough to do so.

I think of it like when a karate guy is about to chop a cinder block in half he has to mentally prepare for the strike and follow thorugh. BUT if at the last second somebody tosses a plank ontop of the cinder block the guy'll break his hand, cuz he wassn't thinking about spliting the board too.

Its the same when Joz jumped in the way of whitebeard AND its the same when Mr 1. jumped in the way of luffy!

Both times Mihawk was thinking about slicing flesh/rubber up and probably didn't put in the followthrough powa! and I'm sure if mihawk tried he could've cut Joz down with his second strike (like he did with Mr. 1).

 

[hy4k]

Re: One Piece 575 Discussion / 576 Prediction

what do you mean by fighting skill ? you mean karate or something he uses a bisento which is as effective as a sword how does that make him less skilled than mihawk or it could depend on how you define " fighting skill "

I've never really gotten the impression that whitebeard was a particularly skilled fighter like mihak and shanks. i doubt he'd be able to deflect a bullet with his bisento for example

however he is far beyond mihawk thanks to his increidbly destructive devil fruit, his insane strength, endurance and kings haki. shanks may be a more skilled fighter but as a yonkou he needs something more than that to place him beyond mihawk

if whitebeards crew join shanks' than his crew would be over powerful dont you think?
most likely marco will be captain

blackbeards packing 4 of the heaviest hitters in impel down right now on top of a bunch of other guys, i think it'd be fine. but you guys are probably right. they'll probably splinter off into smaller crews or something

We all know that WB would have not died with this strongest slash because he'd have done something. The question is what would he have done : would he have been able to stop (make totally disappear) the slash or would he have changed its direction ? That's the answer Mihawks wanted to know ; he wanted to test WB's abilities.

And about the slash being stopped by Joz's body, it is only because his body was of diamond.
We already learnt in Alabasta that Zoro'strongest slash or hit with the blade of his swords could not cut through Mr 1's metal and yet, Zoro was able to cut through metal with a less strong attack : raw strenght was not the answer to cut through metal.
I think the same works for diamond. Even if Mihawks'strongest slash cannot cut diamond, that does not mean that Mihawks cannot cut through diamond with a slash or a hit with the blade of the sword.
Actually, Mihawks can use a different attack that can only cut through diamond, like Zoro did with metal.

there's a lot of conjecture in your post. you're assuming that mihawk CAN cut diamond even though he was unable to do so with what he called his strongest attack. your assuming that whitebeard WOULD have be split in two when he has took ten times as much punishment while remaining on his feet.

mihawk cant be on the same level as whitebeard, and by extension shanks. whitebeard is the top dog in the whitebeard pirates and the pirating world at large. mihawk is just one shichibukai amongst a handful that were summoned to fight whitebeard, and the shichibukai aren't exactly on the same level as the top marines

i agree with what you're saying in that a lot of it depends on the oponent but i dont think a "government dog" can realistically be put on the same level as an emperor thatr rules a quarter of the new world and commands legions of men.

 

[PH3000]

Plus he's 88 years old. BTW, in the German anime the panty jokes have been censored to ... silken ankle socks. You want to switch to that kind of "jokes"?

i saw not that much of the new german anime but they fouled many things^^ how did they show the part with zoro and kuma? i fear watching that episode

 

[Fox666]

Doflamingo?

 

[ZenoArmani]

Re: One Piece 575 Discussion / 576 Prediction

A useless discussion when Oda explained clearly that Mihawks was THE strongest swordman of the world.

The only way not to make this comparatively useless in-story hearsay, similar to Moria=Kaidou, is if Oda said so in an interview or letter column, and even then we were later shown outright through pracical demonstration that Mihawk and Vista are equals, so then Oda would have changed his mind. I definitely don't have any favourism towards the unknown Vista compared to Mihawk, but don't see the need to find any grasping rationalisation for how awesomely unbeatable Mihawk or any other character is. I tend to go with what the author explicitly shows to attempt to find some sort of comparisons.

Come on, the fact that Mihawks'strongest slash cannot cut Joz's body does not mean it would have not been able to cut WB's body. This is actually the contrary : if the slash had met WB's body, he would have been cut in two parts.

We all know that WB would have not died with this strongest slash because he'd have done something. The question is what would he have done : would he have been able to stop (make totally disappear) the slash or would he have changed its direction ? That's the answer Mihawks wanted to know ; he wanted to test WB's abilities.

Again speculation, rather than going by blatant author intentions of showing us that Mihawk only equal to Whitebeard's 5th commander, but from what we've seen of WB's capabilities, he should have been easily able to block Mihawk. MIhawk himself also stated there to be major power difference between them.

And about the slash being stopped by Joz's body, it is only because his body was of diamond.

[quoteWe already learnt in Alabasta that Zoro'strongest slash or hit with the blade of his swords could not cut through Mr 1's metal and yet, Zoro was able to cut through metal with a less strong attack : raw strenght was not the answer to cut through metal.
I think the same works for diamond.

Possible, or it could have been further reinforced by haki (that Joz used against Crocodile) or some other mystical mumbo-jumbo that comes with the manga territory similar to how Marco blocked Kizaru's blast. The point is that Joz and Vista each shown in comparison with Mihawk are together still an explicit power gauge, which is what I tend to go by.

Even if Mihawks'strongest slash cannot cut diamond, that does not mean that Mihawks cannot cut through diamond with a slash or a hit with the blade of the sword.

Yes, I already mentioned that direct strikes are the only possibility Mihawk has in his favour, but again the power difference shown was not marginal, so until we see new explicit comparisons later on in the story, what we have to go by is still Mihawk is more or less = to Vista, who is two steps lower ranked than Joz.

Actually, Mihawks can use a different attack that can only cut through diamond, like Zoro did with metal.

I don't remember it as some kind of special attack for a specific material only, but as Zoro simply reaching a higher level of cutting power for his sword stikes.

 

[Schabrak]

Re: One Piece 575 Discussion / 576 Prediction

As you wont give up with your "equal-theory", why not stop it already? Being a wiseacre, not giving up on your thougths, it's getting tiresome. Showing one single frame where it's shown or mentioned that they are equal would be enough, but you can't. Just as Mihawk never tried to use one of his stronger "Eye-zooming" attacks on Vista. Additionally my neglected clue on his words "Time to finish this" should be indication enough, of how serious he was. Kizaru and Rayleight did fight for some time too, does that make them equal too? Definitly not in the long run. Ah it's getting to off topic. Stop it or let's go into the Convo thread. :/


Will Oda really end the arc in the middle of an new volume? The new one just started with the last chapter.

 

[deffkryz]

i saw not that much of the new german anime but they fouled many things^^ how did they show the part with zoro and kuma? i fear watching that episode

Actually, that was pretty awesome: Dialogue was good so far, but still not totally perfect (I don't like Kuma's german voice). Completely uncensored when Tele5 showed it the first two times (premiere and repetition the day after), either in scenes or dialogue.

Most of the episodes shown by Tele 5 have been aired uncensored so far up to episode 389 which is quite ... unbelievable.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

Polnareff ! I never thought about him.

In a way, it makes sense because he was one of the first one to advocate for freedom beyond the norms/laws of society. Also because of a depression, he gave to someone the management of his business and this person was a drain on his resources. It is a bit like the Slave business that Doflamingo gave to Disco because he was not interested in it anymore (and at the end the business collapsed).

Anyway, I don't think he finds the chaos as funny as Doflamingo does.

 

[Razh]

Re: One Piece 575 Discussion / 576 Prediction

I just had kicks reading about how Mihawk's "strongest slash" couldn't hurt Joz.

They obviously meant that it's the slash from the strongest swordsman. You can't discern that it's his "strongest slash" by observation alone. It's hardly his "strongest slash" because it didn't seem like he was really trying.
When we see him taking some space, then picking up his sword with both hands, then charging forward and swinging so hard that it leaves sweat drops on his face, then it's going to be the "strongest slash".
What he sent to Whitebeard was just something to test out his enemy. You can see a lot from the way your initial attack gets handled. In the case of Joz, Mihawk probably realized that aerial slashes won't be enough to cut through him.

Please stop referring to that Mihawk's slash as the "strongest slash". It was more or less just his regular slash. He didn't put more effort into it than he put into slicing up Krieg's ship.

 

[Raysen_ht]

Question...

Is there any kind of onformation about the other 3 blues?? Like in an SBS or databook or something?
I'm really curious about the life on the other blues...

 

[Gcat88]

The only information we have is who comes from there, the name of some islands, and that East Blue is the weakest out of all the Blues.

 

[PH3000]

Actually, that was pretty awesome: Dialogue was good so far, but still not totally perfect (I don't like Kuma's german voice). Completely uncensored when Tele5 showed it the first two times (premiere and repetition the day after), either in scenes or dialogue.

Most of the episodes shown by Tele 5 have been aired uncensored so far up to episode 389 which is quite ... unbelievable.

Joo really unbelieveable
guess the last episode will be either roger & rayleigh or the sh defeat... the last one would be hard for those who only watch german anime