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Pirate Queen

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Ironic since Sanji being a Prince makes him a possible King in the future. Ruler of the Germa Kingdom in title even though he doesn't want the title. It would be cool seeing him command the family that made him suffer. Judge would hate it lol
 

Kuroiyaiba

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There were weird hints that he might be infused with genes from the lunarians. I'd like that to be highlighted
You‘re right with him being genetically modified anything is possible. I always thought him setting his own leg on fire was just about his burning passion and rage, but there might be a scientific explanation after all. Speaking of rage, Oda could as well just use his will to be stronger than Zoro as his natural drive qualifying him to be a CoC user.
Ironic since Sanji being a Prince makes him a possible King in the future. Ruler of the Germa Kingdom in title even though he doesn't want the title. It would be cool seeing him command the family that made him suffer. Judge would hate it lol
Judges facial expression would be like:


And yes him simply being of noble / royal blood could be another explanation. So we better brace ourselves for CoC Sanji incoming soon.
 
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Lord Rayleigh

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The only strong will /determination I can see in that one is his undying will to make himself a random woman‘s slave.
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But it looks like Oda wants us to buy Sanji being a CoC user soon.
Sanji constantly fighting Zoro is the oldest foreshadowing for Sanji to have CoC. This has skyrocketed with Oden’s flashback when we learnt that people with COC tend to fight each other (Rocks Pirates) and that’s why WB didn’t want Oden to join his crew. It is high time for Sanji to unleash it (I thought he would have done it to save Bonney when Saturn used his power on him and Vegapunk but Oda used Kuma instead) as we are already in the final saga since the end of Wano.
 

DeadlyBeast

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If this is true guess it will be like I'd guessed, CoC has two levels of advanced application. What Luffy learned in Wano is just level 1 aCoC. I'm also still thinking that CoO also has a second advanced level that Luffy will need to learn in the future (whatever Shanks is doing to block Future Sight).
 
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kkck

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Hmmm, I used to think that the vinsmokes would end up affiliated to the strawhat crew since most members aren't approved by luffy to begin with, they simply follow luffy willingly. That said, considering imu and the history behind kings I am thinking that perhaps they will be targeted by imu for recruitment. In theory kings in the story are the lineages that took over once original kings ascended to tenryubito meaning that the vinsmokes probably have that background. Imu may well see the vinsmokes as his direct subordinates. Let alone that their cloning technology combined with his ability to flip people into demons has insane potential.

Also, Vinsmoke might be an arrogant ass but I am pretty sure he would acknowledge Sanji's strength at the end of the WCI arc at least. Let alone that sanji ascended to high ranking yonko executive shortly after. It's also likely that Judge seeing how his sons were all "lol, I guess that's it" at the prospect of dying at big mom's hands probably reconsidered some things.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

If this is true guess it will be like I'd guessed, CoC has two levels of advanced application. What Luffy learned in Wano is just level 1 aCoC. I'm also still thinking that CoO also has a second advanced level that Luffy will need to learn in the future (whatever Shanks is doing to block Future Sight).
Strictly speaking we didn't see Gaban damaging god knights, sommers didn't die. What we saw is that his regeneration was temporarily stopped.
 

DeadlyBeast

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Hmmm, I used to think that the vinsmokes would end up affiliated to the strawhat crew since most members aren't approved by luffy to begin with, they simply follow luffy willingly. That said, considering imu and the history behind kings I am thinking that perhaps they will be targeted by imu for recruitment. In theory kings in the story are the lineages that took over once original kings ascended to tenryubito meaning that the vinsmokes probably have that background. Imu may well see the vinsmokes as his direct subordinates. Let alone that their cloning technology combined with his ability to flip people into demons has insane potential.

Also, Vinsmoke might be an arrogant ass but I am pretty sure he would acknowledge Sanji's strength at the end of the WCI arc at least. Let alone that sanji ascended to high ranking yonko executive shortly after. It's also likely that Judge seeing how his sons were all "lol, I guess that's it" at the prospect of dying at big mom's hands probably reconsidered some things.
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Strictly speaking we didn't see Gaban damaging god knights, sommers didn't die. What we saw is that his regeneration was temporarily stopped.
On the Judge and Sanji relationship, maybe Judge seeing that Sanji beat up Queen will make him happy since they were rivals at one point. Could be a point of pride for Judge even if he will never acknowledge it to Sanji.

On the immortality, yes agree it won't be harming them, just slowing/stopping regeneration. Could be the case Gyaban himself hasn't mastered the skill enough to do permanent damage or the best you can do is make them unable to regenerate to the point they get un-summoned or something. Kind of like how Mars ended up back in Marijeose when Luffy sent him flying like Team Rocket.
 

kkck

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On the Judge and Sanji relationship, maybe Judge seeing that Sanji beat up Queen will make him happy since they were rivals at one point. Could be a point of pride for Judge even if he will never acknowledge it to Sanji.

On the immortality, yes agree it won't be harming them, just slowing/stopping regeneration. Could be the case Gyaban himself hasn't mastered the skill enough to do permanent damage or the best you can do is make them unable to regenerate to the point they get un-summoned or something. Kind of like how Mars ended up back in Marijeose when Luffy sent him flying like Team Rocket.
Oh yeah, I didn't think of the queen thing even though his backstory at mads became pretty relevant during the fight. I suppose there's two scenarios considering queen's skillset, either judge is happy someone beat the crap out of queen or he resents sanji defeating a guy wielding the combined might of his technology.

Hmm, if it's conqueror haki that is somehow able to disrupt the regeneration I would think that there's still a chance it could be used to permanently shut it down. If the mechanism is something like the black magic is somehow impeded by conqueror haki then it could still be the case that it could be used to permanently damage the seals on their bodies. I suppose the contracts with imu could be harder to break though.
 

Ero-Sanji

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Yeah, Sanji honestly doesn’t seem like the the type who’d want to have a grand title or be above everyone else. He doesn’t want a title like Pirate King or Greatest Swordsman, but just find All Blue.
I don't think we should focus on the dreams as much as the personalities of the ones who carry this ability. WB, Chinjao, Gaban and Katakuri all lacked dreams of gaining a title or standing above others, Yamato's dream was to be a whole other person, and yet they all had that disposition. This is what separates Law from Kid. When Law butts head with Luffy he always submits, always. But when Kid is doing the arguing it's a stalemate, even when it's pretty clear that Luffy's the strongest.

I think this is the strongest argument to why Sanji will unleash the ability besides Gaban having it. Sanji is a natural born leader, who others put their trust in and who never hesitates to shoulder that trust.
 

electricmastro

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I don't think we should focus on the dreams as much as the personalities of the ones who carry this ability. WB, Chinjao, Gaban and Katakuri all lacked dreams of gaining a title or standing above others, Yamato's dream was to be a whole other person, and yet they all had that disposition. This is what separates Law from Kid. When Law butts head with Luffy he always submits, always. But when Kid is doing the arguing it's a stalemate, even when it's pretty clear that Luffy's the strongest.

I think this is the strongest argument to why Sanji will unleash the ability besides Gaban having it. Sanji is a natural born leader, who others put their trust in and who never hesitates to shoulder that trust.
Whitebeard, Chinjao, Katakuri, and Kid had leadership titles in addition to their very determined personalities though. Gaban and Yamato are also very determined and don’t easily submit to anyone.

Meanwhile, Sanji submits to any woman. lol
 

kcd

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Luffy will surpass both Shanks and Joyboy, I can't wait to see that 😃
Absolutely bro, no doubt.

As i said some weeks ago, Haki does it all and Gaban probably told something to Luffy/Zoro.
Which makes me wonder… on what principle will this next-level CoC work? I imagine it can’t just be about projecting it outward right? And I also seriously doubt it’s about converting it from one form to another, or making it purer? I can’t see where Oda's taking this. I hope we get a solid explanation soon.

This is someone Shanks defeated in order to become an Emperor.
Shanks' Haki was comparable to Joyboy roughly.
And Gaban warned Luffy about unleashing him.
He's got to be a hell of a fighter, probably superior to Warcury imo.
He even got the invitation to become a Holy Knight.

I am going to guess he's currently superior to Luffy.
Furthermore, the fact he's caused so much commotion just from one seastone chain being removed, and the fact he can sense observation despite being bound by Haki.
I am expecting this fight to be what really brings Luffy to the level of Emperor we expect from him.

We expect Shanks and Luffy to fight, but it could be that Luffy defeating Loki proves he's equal to Shanks while Shanks possibly gets defeated by Blackbeard... I think that fight has to happen. Such a scenario is 2 birds one stone, Luffy proves equal strength to Shanks without fighting him, and Shanks and Blackbeard get to have their foreshadowed showdown.... I think that fight has to happen.
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Ahh... of course it's King's Haki which was my guess and most people's.
This is why I got really annoyed at the fact Usopp and Chopper were acting like "hmmm.... what's the secret to hurting these guys".... as if they were going to figure out something just to find out.... they're not even in the conversation since they can't even use basic armament.

I think I just have to accept the top 4 outside of the crew are not really fighters, they're just there to do their specific roles and should not be relied on for anything combat related.

With this as my new insight, I don't think they will participate much against Blackbeard, I think Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Jimbei and one of his allies will be the ones to take on Blackbeard's crew. The rest will just be there to do what they do besides be forces to be reckoned with.
I see, you really do rank him high on the power scale. Personally, I see Loki just below Luffy and around that level, but we'll see what happens if they clash directly or go all-out against Imu. One thing we can agree on though is that Luffy seriously needs training, both in armament and stamina, but especially stamina. It's not fun when you're one pump in but Luffy's stamina still manages to finish before you. Doesn’t cut it anymore at this stage, lol.

Ahh... of course it's King's Haki which was my guess and most people's.
This is why I got really annoyed at the fact Usopp and Chopper were acting like "hmmm.... what's the secret to hurting these guys".... as if they were going to figure out something just to find out.... they're not even in the conversation since they can't even use basic armament.

I think I just have to accept the top 4 outside of the crew are not really fighters, they're just there to do their specific roles and should not be relied on for anything combat related.

With this as my new insight, I don't think they will participate much against Blackbeard, I think Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Jimbei and one of his allies will be the ones to take on Blackbeard's crew. The rest will just be there to do what they do besides be forces to be reckoned with.
Man, no hope for the lower end fighters anymore, and I was rooting for Robin. Even Sanji’s Power of Love might need to be upgraded to a special form of CoC at this point, just to keep up.
 

electricmastro

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Honestly, if Sanji is going to get Conqueror’s, can Franky and Jinbe get it too?
 

kkck

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Sanji will get conqueror haki just to mirror gaban. And from a plot point of view the strawhats probably need more than two people capable of taking on god knights. On the pirate side of things there's still very few people capable of contending with imu's curses... The actual yonko, beckham also seems like a candidate for yonko level fighter... Meanwhile 9 god knights, the gorosei and Imu makes for an absurd force.
 

electricmastro

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Sanji will get conqueror haki just to mirror gaban. And from a plot point of view the strawhats probably need more than two people capable of taking on god knights. On the pirate side of things there's still very few people capable of contending with imu's curses... The actual yonko, beckham also seems like a candidate for yonko level fighter... Meanwhile 9 god knights, the gorosei and Imu makes for an absurd force.
Well when you put it like that, then good, since that means there would be four Conqueror’s users on the Straw Hats like there was with the Roger Pirates.
 

Kuroiyaiba

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Honestly, if Sanji is going to get Conqueror’s, can Franky and Jinbe get it too?
Sanji will get conqueror haki just to mirror gaban. And from a plot point of view the strawhats probably need more than two people capable of taking on god knights. On the pirate side of things there's still very few people capable of contending with imu's curses... The actual yonko, beckham also seems like a candidate for yonko level fighter... Meanwhile 9 god knights, the gorosei and Imu makes for an absurd force.
And I still think it‘s a shame that Jinbei as the strongest (known) fishman is a non CoC user. I just hope he‘s going to be a late bloomer and unleash it at some point.
 

electricmastro

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“Luffy asks Loki to join his crew”

Oh, so Loki will join the Straw Hats then? Interesting choice.
 

kkck

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Well when you put it like that, then good, since that means there would be four Conqueror’s users on the Straw Hats like there was with the Roger Pirates.
Who is the fourth? as far as I can tell the roger pirates had 3 cladding users.
 
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