Discussion One Piece's pace.

Makki

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It's not the issue of content, it's the issue of irrelevant content. You gotta make the distinction

The Shitjao deal (even his fight against Lao G was beyond shitty) could've been handled better and shorter, the introduction of Cool Yeti Brothers was unecessary too for example, Oda trying to make to give some semblance of " depth " to Hodi was unecessary (while completely ignoring the Fishman Karate dojo for example)

People will say, it's just panels, but when you add up all those panels you'll end up with lots of pages... People criticize Kubo for his pace/panels, and I criticize Oda for sometimes putting too much useless crap in panels

It may be rude, but I couldn't care less about some things that Oda introduced and some characters too

That's what I once thought about Laboon, old Croc and many other things WHICH later fell perfectly in place and made sense. Exactly because those characters have been introduced recently, we can't say that what has been shown was pointless and a waste of panels. All the references made by Chinjao might pan out to be relevant in the future.
Don't get me wrong, there are a load of characters I deem unnecessary and don't like them very much (Cavendish for example), but I believe since they were given so much time to show skills, character etc that they will play a role in the future.
 

MiyamotoMusashi

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That's what I once thought about Laboon, old Croc and many other things WHICH later fell perfectly in place and made sense. Exactly because those characters have been introduced recently, we can't say that what has been shown was pointless and a waste of panels. All the references made by Chinjao might pan out to be relevant in the future.
Don't get me wrong, there are a load of characters I deem unnecessary and don't like them very much (Cavendish for example), but I believe since they were given so much time to show skills, character etc that they will play a role in the future.
One of the biggest issues Oda has to deal with in the New World is to make a Luffy victory against a Yonkou credible and believable, or much more the victory against a Yonkou crew. If WB´s crew was any indication, they had 4 commanders who could at least fight Admirals for a while, and 2000 no-name crew members who were able to beat the Pacifista, something the Strawhats did with difficulty altogether.
Introducing these characters makes it obvious that they will be allies in the upcoming Yonkou battle. Chinjao has his own navy and promised their allegiance to Luffy, Cavendish has a crew, Barto has a crew, then we probably will also have the Wa No Samurai who are supposed to be strong and so on, that´s probably their role.
 

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Iv just been rereading from the end of Alabasta and found one thing that challenged me is the number of characters that had a lot of time and development put into them, like say Paulie from Galley La. He had a lot of attention, perhaps Oda did it at the time in order to confuse people on the whole "who will join the straw hats as their carpenter" debate. It gets to a point where we can build in depth bio's about every character we've seen, but there are so many who we know will never be seen ever again despite how much character development they got on the spot.
Like Senor Pink recently, has quite a back story behind him that makes me feel sad for him... But he's unlikely to return (ok maybe he will but for examples sake)
There are many others who have a weird amount of back story stacking up to a point where it plain out right confuses me, like who is where and doing what and why? Plus there are still mysteries mentioned here and there left unchecked, like when Thriller bark was over and the fog had a pair of ominous eyes, or the cave of prisoners frozen up at punk hazard. It's epic to be sure, and perhaps we are ultimately just wrong in approaching this manga on a weekly basis. As much as I can't help myself and come and read this every week anyway!
 

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It's not the issue of content, it's the issue of irrelevant content. You gotta make the distinction

The Shitjao deal (even his fight against Lao G was beyond shitty) could've been handled better and shorter, the introduction of Cool Yeti Brothers was unecessary too for example, Oda trying to make to give some semblance of " depth " to Hodi was unecessary (while completely ignoring the Fishman Karate dojo for example)

People will say, it's just panels, but when you add up all those panels you'll end up with lots of pages... People criticize Kubo for his pace/panels, and I criticize Oda for sometimes putting too much useless crap in panels

It may be rude, but I couldn't care less about some things that Oda introduced and some characters too
Getting allies is irrelevant? :wonder Because no matter how much you hate Chinjao, his Happo Navy ended up helping the SHs in Dressrosa, and who knows they might also help him in the future, when the last war start, and even before that. The reason why he was shown, as well as the whole story about him and Garp is because Oda wanted to illustrate how the old generation is retiring and basically failing at whatever they're supposed to be doing, while the younger generation, Sai in this case is stepping up to take their place. That's why Chinjao was one shotted by Lao G, who later got one shotted by Sai himself. It all started with WB, Sengoku, Garp, all those long timers, who are either dead or have retired.
The other reason why Sai and Baby 5 got such attention is because I think there's a good chance the SHs might visit Flower country. And even for the sake of the universe expanding, all those NW nations had to be introduced at some point.I am sure it will come to play in the future, especially if Uholishia shows up...It might not be obvious to everyone now, but that's how Oda has been telling his story. I mean just look at Hachi, and the Fishmen and how they came up to play again in Sabaody and later on FI. All those characters who got introduced have a good chance of appearing again.
This is why I hate how some people who use the word "filler " in the manga. There is no such thing as filler in the manga, the anime yes. We can't be sure if those elements won't come to play. Because while we might see some developments as unnecessary, Oda later uses it, and frankly it would be better to have these characters now, than let's say when the war start. One of the reasons why the war at Marineford was hard to follow, is because of all these characters getting introduced, when the main concern is the war itself.
If we're supposed to feel involved in those characters then they would logically need a good amount of panel time, and when you possibly add to that a war setting it clearly becomes harder to be invested in all those characters, because there simply isn't enough time to flesh them out. If we take the example of Dressrosa, some characters got really redeemed, like Hajrudin who wasn't exactly everyone's favorite when he first appeared, because he crushed Ucy. I can say the same about Cabbage, Barto, and even Senor Pink who can be seen as an antagonist. So it's really a matter of wanting to develop those characters who have a good chance of appearing later on, and it wouldn't be the first time Oda does that. But I get that some of us simply dislike certain characters and just don't want to see their faces, period.
 
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I Am Atomic

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The build up of Chinjao's character was very great but the ending was appalling.

The fight with luffy made us think he was god tier. He had conquerers haki. That alone made us think he was DD, rayleigh and other big tier level. Him being unaffected by luffy's gear 2nd attacks made him strong. As the fight went on we knew that he was not that strong. But what surpises me is that when luffy used jet gattling chinjao was able to keep up with him using his arms. So a gattling from chinjao. We know how luffy is able to do gattling but chinjao? World was able to keep up with luffys gattling because of his df ability but no other characters could do a gattling before. So how come chinjao was able to? For your information: if chinjao could do a gattling and keep up with luffy then that means he is faster than gear 2nd luffy. So the conclusion i made was that he was crazy strong.

Then......

..... he got one shotted by lao g. What?!

Plz spare me he is old explanation. If thats the reason then dont reply. Chinjao was able to repel all of luffy's attacks so why not lao g's?

Then Sai who was shown to be a complete fodder surpasses chinjao? So he unlocked that strong haki because he was in a desperate situation? Same as bellamy did? The strawhats has been in more dangerous desperation than them and did not unlock anything.
 

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The build up of Chinjao's character was very great but the ending was appalling.

The fight with luffy made us think he was god tier. He had conquerers haki. That alone made us think he was DD, rayleigh and other big tier level. Him being unaffected by luffy's gear 2nd attacks made him strong. As the fight went on we knew that he was not that strong. But what surpises me is that when luffy used jet gattling chinjao was able to keep up with him using his arms. So a gattling from chinjao. We know how luffy is able to do gattling but chinjao? World was able to keep up with luffys gattling because of his df ability but no other characters could do a gattling before. So how come chinjao was able to? For your information: if chinjao could do a gattling and keep up with luffy then that means he is faster than gear 2nd luffy. So the conclusion i made was that he was crazy strong.

Then......

..... he got one shotted by lao g. What?!

Plz spare me he is old explanation. If thats the reason then dont reply. Chinjao was able to repel all of luffy's attacks so why not lao g's?

Then Sai who was shown to be a complete fodder surpasses chinjao? So he unlocked that strong haki because he was in a desperate situation? Same as bellamy did? The strawhats has been in more dangerous desperation than them and did not unlock anything.
He did say he didn't recover fully from his fight with Luffy, so there's your explanation. Just because a character has Haki, even CoC doesn't mean he's gonna be incredibly strong. You're just expecting too much. Conqueror's haki, as explained by Chinjao himself, can awaken in someone who wants to be a king, for Luffy it's the Pirate King. And even after awakening it, it can still be improved, that's why you have characters like Shanks who have some of the strongest Haki around. And in the NW in general, Haki is more common, that's why characters like Bellamy who are thought to be weak, can have it. In this arc in particular, we saw Usopp awaken to it, even though he's supposed to be the weakest SH, according to Oda. I think it was mentionned in the Marineford war that the more Haki users there are in a place, the bigger chance there is to awaken to Haki (not sure so if someone could confirm this).
So even if a character has Haki, it doesn't mean he's going to be a beast. Haki right now seems to be a prerequisite, and maybe Oda shouldn't have given Conqueror's haki to certain characters, but if we go by the explanation given by Chinjao, it would make sense, as long as someone wishes to be King.
So in the end it's a matter of having too much expectations, and in this case it's not really Oda's fault.
 
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HereNThere

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Haki was never said to awaken when someone is among others. The only thing about Haki awakening mentioned in Marineford was when Coby awoke his and it was mentioned that severe shock can awaken it.

I kind of agree that Chinjao didn't really deserve CoC Haki. I mean, him being the leader of his own Naval Force, it makes sense, but it just seems like a waste on him. There is sort of an expectation with folks who have CoC. They are supposed to be cream of the crop of pirates, but Chinjao didn't really make an impression, in my opinion. His backstory did him no favors either.

Anywho, One Piece's pacing. I only have a problem with it when it focuses too much on the secondary character on the current arc's island. This past arc went above and beyond in introducing a ton of characters I cared nothing for and, yet, gave them so much focus. A fodder Giant got nearly an entire chapter dedicated to him fighting. Yeah, I understand that Donflamingo had a pretty large crew and they needed to be taken out, but come on now. I would have preferred if Ideo at least took out Machvise instead of that guy. The characters really brought this arc down for me. I also understand that we need to further set the groundwork for Luffy's influence, but these characters were not interesting and I really wasn't sympathetic to their problems.
 

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Haki was never said to awaken when someone is among others. The only thing about Haki awakening mentioned in Marineford was when Coby awoke his and it was mentioned that severe shock can awaken it.

I kind of agree that Chinjao didn't really deserve CoC Haki. I mean, him being the leader of his own Naval Force, it makes sense, but it just seems like a waste on him. There is sort of an expectation with folks who have CoC. They are supposed to be cream of the crop of pirates, but Chinjao didn't really make an impression, in my opinion. His backstory did him no favors either.

Anywho, One Piece's pacing. I only have a problem with it when it focuses too much on the secondary character on the current arc's island. This past arc went above and beyond in introducing a ton of characters I cared nothing for and, yet, gave them so much focus. A fodder Giant got nearly an entire chapter dedicated to him fighting. Yeah, I understand that Donflamingo had a pretty large crew and they needed to be taken out, but come on now. I would have preferred if Ideo at least took out Machvise instead of that guy. The characters really brought this arc down for me. I also understand that we need to further set the groundwork for Luffy's influence, but these characters were not interesting and I really wasn't sympathetic to their problems.
Well in the NW there seems to be more Haki users, unless they all went through shock I don't think that fully explains why there seems to be so much users in the NW. But that's offtopic anyway.
Again it seems like the problem is that certain characters weren't liked, hence it wasn't deemed necessary to develop them. But then again OP is known for having many characters, whether they are allies or villains, and with the Kaido arc possibly starting right away, it's understandable to have these characters introduced now, whether we like them or not.
 

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Getting allies is irrelevant? .
Getting allies isn't irrelevant, wasting panels on shit characters with shit motivation is irrelevant
Notice I didn't even talk badly about Sai, because I actually liked him and his development... But Shitjao is the ultimate loser pirate, worse than Moria, with an uninteresting backstory and PATHETIC, who got one shotted in A COMICAL WAY ffs

I don't hate Barto, or Cavendish, I don't even hate Rebecca that much, I like Kyros... But Shitjao was ridiculous, I was expecting something out of him, only for Oda to hype him for nothing

It's simple, Oda hyped to be a legendary pirate ? Then let him act as one, not as a whiny old man who couldn't beat Garp and decided to take his grudge on Luffy
 

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Lol yeah thanks for proving my point. If the readers don't like a certain character, they don't think he deserves panel time, it's rather immature. Even if you don't like a certain character, you should learn to see beyond your bias, perhaps you could see that he serves a purpose. I happen to not like all of the characters, some of which are even thought to be possible SHs. And by that I mean Rebecca, who is nothing more than a damsel in distress and a crybaby.
But that didn't make me think she shouldn't have been introduced at all, and it certainly didn't prevent me from enjoying the manga.:heh

Anyway let's not turn this into a ranting thread. I just want to add that this is not the first time we discuss OP's pace. This is actually the second thread that deals with it. So it's not something unique to Dressrosa,even the older arcs who are now seen as some of the fan favorites like Alabasta, were thought to be dragged while they were published. The quality of the arc definitely improves with time, and through re-reads. Perhaps something can be done about that, to prove once and for all that this arc isn't half as bad as some want to think.
 
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Zehahaha

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Lol yeah thanks for proving my point. If the readers don't like a certain character, they don't think he deserves panel time, it's rather immature. Even if you don't like a certain character, you should learn to see beyond your bias, perhaps you could see that he serves a purpose. I happen to not like all of the characters, some of which are even thought to be possible SHs. And by that I mean Rebecca, who is nothing more than a damsel in distress and a crybaby.
But that didn't make me think she shouldn't have been introduced at all, and it certainly didn't prevent me from enjoying the manga.:heh
He doesn't serve a purpose, what purpose did he serve this arc or will he even serve in the next ones since his grandson has taken his role as leader of the Happo Navy ?

It seems you really didn't catch what I wanted to say, so I'll say it again : Oda introduced him as a legendary pirate, and we ended up with a pathetic pirate who got defeated by Garp in comical manner, got trashed by a weak character (Lao G) with Oda using half assed excuse (I'm old and tired bla bla), I know characters who took way more damage than him and still fought hard... Let's not forget that his grandson one shotted the same opponent

TL;DR : Oda introduced him as a legendary pirate ? Make him act as one

I don't recall Oda introducing Rebecca let's say as A SUPER LEGENDARY GLADIATOR or what not, so ofc I wasn't disappointed by her at all
Kyros was introduced as such, and lived up to the hype
Barto was introduced as a crazy ass pirate, and lived up to the hype

There are a lot of characters who may be useless storywise, but because they weren't stupidly hyped, well they served whatever small purpose they had and didn't take much panels overall
 

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One problem I had with this arc besides the amount of attention given to mediocre characters is how Oda handled the battles. He had no problem showing us every detail of each character's struggle to reach a certain point. When it came time for the actual battles, he was tired of this arc and wrapped everything up with one shots. It lessened the depth of the combat. Why could no one take a hit? Not to mention Zoro and Luffy's battles against the strongest enemies were mostly off screen. I wouldn't mind if he let Luffy sit this one out, then have him come back when it's time to fight the Yonkou. Kinda like Goku during the Frieza saga.

He should keep it a little simpler. Like the good old days.
 

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One problem I had with this arc besides the amount of attention given to mediocre characters is how Oda handled the battles. He had no problem showing us every detail of each character's struggle to reach a certain point. When it came time for the actual battles, he was tired of this arc and wrapped everything up with one shots. It lessened the depth of the combat. Why could no one take a hit? Not to mention Zoro and Luffy's battles against the strongest enemies were mostly off screen. I wouldn't mind if he let Luffy sit this one out, then have him come back when it's time to fight the Yonkou. Kinda like Goku during the Frieza saga.

He should keep it a little simpler. Like the good old days.

The one hit KO was a good one. First, the arc was taking such a long time and Doflamingo was being too much of a douche so everybody (including myself) just wanted the arc to come to an end already. And second, it's an ironic nod at how Luffy one hit KO Bellamy back in Jaya arc. Like Master, like student.
 

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The one hit KO was a good one. First, the arc was taking such a long time and Doflamingo was being too much of a douche so everybody (including myself) just wanted the arc to come to an end already. And second, it's an ironic nod at how Luffy one hit KO Bellamy back in Jaya arc. Like Master, like student.
Its not just Doflamingo who was one shotted. Dellinger, Lao G, Diamante, Trebol, Bellamy, Buffalo, Machwise and possibly Gladius were all down in one hit.
 

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Its not just Doflamingo who was one shotted. Dellinger, Lao G, Diamante, Trebol, Bellamy, Buffalo, Machwise and possibly Gladius were all down in one hit.
Well Diamante wasn't really one shotted IMO, a one shot would be something overwhelming like Zoro vs Pica, or Kyros one shotting Buffalo
Same for Machvise

Lao G was one shotted, Trebol meh it's just Oda who wanted to keep him around more, Dellinger one shotted by Hakuba, Bellamy too,
 

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^ Bellamy? He for the best part got off shotted XD that's even worse than one shotted!
 

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^ Bellamy? He for the best part got off shotted XD that's even worse than one shotted!
Lmao that's true... It was pathetic but whatever, hope I won't see him again for a long time at least
 
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