Character Oni in retrospect

[Kaoz]

Considering that the part that Kintarou show off to #14 isn't even close to his real strength, I say it's totally possible that his peak can be at that level when he come down from the mountain.

We don't know exactly how much of his real power Tooyama kept hidden when playing Hakamada, so it not being "close to his real strength" is pushing it. For all we know, it could just refer to him fighting Hakamada head-on whereas he was actually playing smart against Oni.

 

[-Ken-]

We don't know exactly how much of his real power Tooyama kept hidden when playing Hakamada, so it not being "close to his real strength" is pushing it. For all we know, it could just refer to him fighting Hakamada head-on whereas he was actually playing smart against Oni.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v08/c091/13.html

I didn't know hiding his full power until his real match could mean simply playing smart. Now, I think that's pushing the definition. If he use 95% of his power against Hakamada, and 100% against Oni, that's not really holding back. We're not given any percentage anyhow, so it's impossible to know. But if we use Momoshiro holding back as an example, as it is the only percentage we're ever really given in the story, it's a massive amount. But even if it's 80% against Hakamada, that's still a fair amount being used.

And as I say before, this is just unrelated. The manga itself already stated that there's a massive different between each court. It doesn't matter at all.

---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 AM ----------

I think Court 5 would beat Black Jerseys.

Singles 3: Tezuka
Doubles 2: Shiraishi/Kirihara
Singles 2: Atobe
Doubles 1: Chitose/Tachibana
Singles 1: Oni
Reserve : Akutsu

I am positive that this team can beat Black Jerseys.

If you count Tezuka who just gain Tnk and Oni who just gain TnK, sure. Otherwise, Tezuka is off to Germany already and Oni really shows that he wouldn't play in court shuffle if not in reserve.

And what I need is a proof from the manga that 3rd court > 2nd court. What we are given from the page I post above is that 2nd court > 3rd court. Anything else that's not from the manga is irrelevant.

If you were to compare the two line-up, you have to use 5th court line-up Oni come up with, as that's what give the result to the current one that we're given. If 5th court can use the same line-up at the time before Black Jersey Revolution without the upgrade and manage to win over 2nd court 5-0, then that would shows that they are better. Without playing Yamato, no one will be suggesting Tezuka to play for Fun, which means no PoP.

just lining up a new line-up and say that can beat 3rd court and black jersey just doesn't prove anything. It's a new line-up already, with different characters.

 

[Ninomiya]

I think Court 5 would beat Black Jerseys.

Singles 3: Tezuka
Doubles 2: Shiraishi/Kirihara
Singles 2: Atobe
Doubles 1: Chitose/Tachibana
Singles 1: Oni
Reserve : Akutsu

I am positive that this team can beat Black Jerseys.

I sort of agree here. Its possible Court 5 would win, but factor in the conditions that are too crucial in this instance.
For instance, T Oni wouldn't put himself in the TeamShuffle for the MSers.
Its strongly implied he wasn't even the listed reserve since Jirou, Gin, Kite & Akutsu had no expections of Oni stepping up to play.
Oni just leaped up in the moment.

So the team would be without Oni unfortunately.

---

And the MSers Court 3 VS MSers Court 2

S3: Kite
D2: Shiraishi/Kirihara
S2: Akutsu
D1:Tachibana/Chitose
S1: Atobe
R: Ishida

VS

S3: Tooyama
D2: Niou/Oishi
S2: Sanada
D1: Yanagi/Inui
S1: Ryoma

It doesn't look good for MSCourt3 if I'm honest.

---------- Post added at 06:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------

And as I say before, this is just unrelated. The manga itself already stated that there's a massive different between each court. It doesn't matter at all.

There are many things the manga has said, that changed as the story went on btw.
Its like believing that the list of the 1st String was completely in order of strength.
That seriously isn't the case.

The fact that Yamato and Nakagauchi are in the Top10 of the 2ndString shows that those two were better than at least one Court1 guy.
In fact, those two were clearly better than their fellow court members (Irie doesn't count).
Irie, another example of Court 3.
So honestly, I wouldn't go as far as to say Court 3 < Court 2. We know Migihashi was the Court Leader (So basically strongest)
And Irie > Migihashi is pretty obvious.
I think Nakagauchi and Yamato suddenly revealing they aren't as weak as people thought, and Irie trolling Atobe are key elements of the Team Shuffle when measuring Court3's strength.

Migihashi is seemingly around the same level as Yamato and Nakagauchi if you look at the 2ndString list when the 1st String arrive.
So the fact that the rest of Court 2 is weaker than Migihashi truly implies that the gap between Court 2 and Court 3 isn't like what Tanegashima said.
I'd say the gap was possibly big for guys like Miyako, Matsudaira, Takei etc. between the rest of Court2. But not for Irie, Yamato and Nakagauchi.

The only Court that has a big gap is Court 1.
Since Tokugawa, 2ndString No.4, 5, 6 & 7, are all most likely from Court 1.

 

[-Ken-]

Well, Irie is above 3rd court level, we know that much. Yamato is also above 3rd court level, since he was hiding GYGU until then. I don't think Nakagauchi reveal anything though. He got stomp in his 1st stringer match. The only reason Nakagauchi is shown to be on the same "level" as those is because the 2nd stringer beside the court leader all go home when they lose to the black jersey. Which make sense. It's probably the court shuffle that they play. If you shuffle with someone without a court, you don't have the court in the camp. They might be doing mountain training right now, who knows. And I don't really know the 2nd court leader avoid going home either.

 

[Hardy]

We don't know exactly how much of his real power Tooyama kept hidden when playing Hakamada, so it not being "close to his real strength" is pushing it. For all we know, it could just refer to him fighting Hakamada head-on whereas he was actually playing smart against Oni.

When was it said he was hiding something at all? It looks like he played 100 % and even improved in that match.

 

[-Ken-]

When was it said he was hiding something at all? It looks like he played 100 % and even improved in that match.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v08/c091/13.html

It shows he doesn't play 100% before this match, at the very least.

 

[Hardy]

Oni was in the 1st court when Kintarou was playing Hakamada. I believe not a single person saw him playing that match. Oni is surely talking about hiding it while training.

 

[-Ken-]

Oni was in the 1st court when Kintarou was playing Hakamada. I believe not a single person saw him playing that match. Oni is surely talking about hiding it while training.

Yet Kaji play with Oni in the dark and his stats are updated. These coach are sneaky. They must have update other 1st stringer in their match too. As well as Kintarou.

And I don't believe Oni base stats is worst than Hakamada at all. If basic Kintarou can get 3 game off Oni (he only use special serve, which is return anyways, so kinda useless), that's a notice amount of improvement.

Considering the bad of a shape Kintarou was when he play Hakamada, the match look really close. If KIntarou was only slightly better than #14, I doubt he'll do this well against Oni.

 

[Hardy]

I never said that Oni had worse stats than Hakamada nor anything like that.

Hakamada without Vanish = Insta-rape from Kintarou. Kin just needed to counter that, he did, and then he easily won the match.

---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 AM ----------

Hell, Oni wasn't even playing at his 50 % when Kintarou won all those games in a row.

 

[Ninomiya]

Oni was in the 1st court when Kintarou was playing Hakamada. I believe not a single person saw him playing that match. Oni is surely talking about hiding it while training.

That's another way to look at it too.
But remember Matsudaira Chikahiko was the audience to Tooyama Kintarou VS Hakamada Izou.
In fact, every match had an audience as long as the HSer of the 2nd String was still conscious.
The only HSers to remain conscious after their ass-kicking was Suzuki and Matsudaira, whilst Washio got "revived".

So its possible Oni got info on the match from Matsudaira.
The other matches like Mitsuya's match or Kawamura's match have no witnesses since people like Takei and Miyako were out cold.

Also, taking 3 games from an Oni who only has BJK at his disposal is sort of expected from Tooyama.
Remember Nationals!Tooyama was already able to fight back against the Oni that must have faced Momoshiro when Ryoma/Kintaro took on Tokugawa/Oni.
So it could be implied Oni played the same as before to see how much Kintaro had improved since last time.

 

[-Ken-]

It wasn't until Kishin mode is use that Oni score some points from Kintarou, I think. Not even 10 ball steal points from him. And with Kishin mode, Oni power is clearly no longer at #5.

 

[Hardy]

It wasn't until Kishin mode is use that Oni score some points from Kintarou, I think. Not even 10 ball steal points from him. And with Kishin mode, Oni power is clearly no longer at #5.

Oni with BJK and 10 balls ain't #5 power either, otw he wouldn't had used Kisihin against Kaji.

Also, taking 3 games from an Oni who only has BJK at his disposal is sort of expected from Tooyama.
Remember Nationals!Tooyama was already able to fight back against the Oni that must have faced Momoshiro when Ryoma/Kintaro took on Tokugawa/Oni.
So it could be implied Oni played the same as before to see how much Kintaro had improved since last time.

Yup, I totally agree.

I said it before, Kintarou was beter than Hakamada but he couldn't return his Vanish. Once he did, he owned. He wasn't hiding any potential.

I don't think that a Hs would tell Tooyama off btw, lol

 

[-Ken-]

Oni with BJK and 10 balls ain't #5 power either, otw he wouldn't had used Kisihin against Kaji.

Oni without Kishin is #5. That's the number Konomi given to us. It's his number ever since the beginning of the manga when he first appear and introduce himself. Why bother risking 7-6 when you can dominate Kaji with Kishin? So if Oni without BJK and 210 ball isn't #5, what is? Give example. Oni with Kishin is sure as hell not #5.

Kaji is in the medical room and is unlikely to play again. That means he got dominated.

 

[Hardy]

Oni with 10 balls and BJK but without Kishin is a strong guy with unkown potential as he (as far as we know) never played against a decent rival this way, and when he did he was getting "destroyed" by Tooyama. Kishin dominated Kaji, yes... so? It's a godlike Aura, good enough to beat Byoudouin ffs, dunno what's your point there.

Kishin Oni might be above #5, but on the other hand 10 balls and BJK isn't good enough for tthat spot.

---------- Post added at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 PM ----------

210 balls seems op btw ^^

 

[Ninomiya]

Oni without Kishin is #5. That's the number Konomi given to us. It's his number ever since the beginning of the manga when he first appear and introduce himself. Why bother risking 7-6 when you can dominate Kaji with Kishin? So if Oni without BJK and 210 ball isn't #5, what is? Give example. Oni with Kishin is sure as hell not #5.

You're right that Oni with 10 Ball Strike is the No.5, however Oni wasn't playing at his 10BallStrike level against Tooyama when he conceded 3 games.
He didn't play at that level in the camp until he crushed Kaji and til he brought it out against Tooyama and then the court went on fire.

 

[-Ken-]

You're right that Oni with 10 Ball Strike is the No.5, however Oni wasn't playing at his 10BallStrike level against Tooyama when he conceded 3 games.
He didn't play at that level in the camp until he crushed Kaji and til he brought it out against Tooyama and then the court went on fire.

The thing is that 10 ball Oni doesn't exactly win points against Kintarou either. And thus, I doubt Kintarou was using his full strength when he's playing against Hakamada. Hakamada is probably died to 10 ball.

---------- Post added at 07:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 PM ----------

Oni with 10 balls and BJK but without Kishin is a strong guy with unkown potential as he (as far as we know) never played against a decent rival this way, and when he did he was getting "destroyed" by Tooyama. Kishin dominated Kaji, yes... so? It's a godlike Aura, good enough to beat Byoudouin ffs, dunno what's your point there.

Kishin Oni might be above #5, but on the other hand 10 balls and BJK isn't good enough for tthat spot.

---------- Post added at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 PM ----------

210 balls seems op btw ^^

I think BJK Oni is below #5 spot, but add 10 ball and I think that's pretty much where the spots lies.

 

[Philia]

I think BJK Oni +10 balls can defeat Ohmagari.
So, I think usual Oni is #5. Kishin Oni is much higher.

 

[floman]

I think BJK Oni +10 balls can defeat Ohmagari.
So, I think usual Oni is #5. Kishin Oni is much higher.

Definitely when Oni uses the 10 ball strike, Ohmagari says "do you want to destroy the guy you have been training." I always thought that showed that Ohmagari would have trouble returning the 10 ball strike.

 

[Phantron]

Since the coach on the mountain did say you can beat Oni if you can do 10-ball, it stands to reason that Oni normally keeps his power level at below the 10-ball level.

 

[floman]

Since the coach on the mountain did say you can beat Oni if you can do 10-ball, it stands to reason that Oni normally keeps his power level at below the 10-ball level.

He said you won't be able to beat Oni or Tokugawa till you can return 10 balls. So basically if you cannot return ten balls, you will lose for sure.