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Shounen Orient by Shinobu Ohtaka

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A bit unrelated to your current topic, but I saw the trailer of Orient and while I am not quite sure if I will watch it.. the comment section on Youtube, however, was quite a delight to read. Basically all comments where like:

''cool and all, but where is Magi season 3''

Lmao.
Yeah, that was pretty weird, even with huge databases like MAL and Anilist, most anime fans are pretty ignorant. The Orient anime has no bearing on whether the Magi anime returns or not, Orient was published by Kodansha in Weekly Shonen Magazine/Bessatsu Shonen Magazine and Magi was published by Shogakukan in Weekly Shonen Sunday. Even the producers are different, the producers behind Magi were Aniplex while Avex Pictures are the guys behind Orient.

It would be like if people kept crying under Mob Psycho 100 videos asking why OPM season 2 looks worse, just because the source material was created by the same mangaka doesn’t mean the same people are working on the anime.

If people want more Magi they should read the manga, the anime was a mediocre adaptation and since Aniplex are the producers behind it, a potential season 3 might just end up like The Promised Neverland season 2.
 

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A bit unrelated to your current topic, but I saw the trailer of Orient and while I am not quite sure if I will watch it.. the comment section on Youtube, however, was quite a delight to read. Basically all comments where like:

''cool and all, but where is Magi season 3''

Lmao.
There was a similar reaction with the Vanitas anime, a lot of fans were asking for Pandora Hearts reboot instead (prob not as much as Magi S3 since Magi is more popular). When you have a new series that comes right after a very popular one with an incomplete adaptation, you're always going to see fans asking for a sequel.

Shiro's sword looks rather small compared to the manga, doesnt it?
And voicing him is Zenitsu from Demon Slayer :tem not the voice i imagined, but then again Shiro is batshit crazy and kinda sadistic mofo, kinda like Dabi (but not as mental and gone) from MHA, who is voiced by the same actor, so its an interesting choice.

I am not familiar with Nanao's VA. The only notable thing i see on MAL is Hinata from Tokyo Revengers, but i dont know the character, nor do i watch the series.
Same here but his comment on the anime website fills me with hope. Shiro does seem to be innocent/friendly at first before being a lunatic lol. At least that was my first impression of him.
 

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I was already losing interest in the anime after seeing Engoku Tengu and the Character PV didn’t really help. I don’t know if I’m gonna bother watching it. If even the first episode is this unpolished, I can’t imagine what the rest of the series looks like. That MAD was a more effective trailer than either of the two PVs so far.




I know in animation a character’s appearance will vary depending on who is drawing them and the animation director, but Musashi looks kinda off depending on the shot and most of these should be in the same episode as well. Pretty much all the shots in the first PV were fine imo, but in the character PV some shots look weird like the middle left one (4), his crossing hair bangs are way too low. His eyes are even incorrectly coloured purple in the bottom left shot, the level of detail in Musashi’s hair compared to his miner friends makes them look like they come from different shows, bottom middle using that cursed Musashi from that “fight” scene might be a bit unfair but it doesn’t look any better in motion.

The anime appears to love placing the characters in backgroundless voids, I don’t mind using this to highlight poignant moments but they’re really overusing it going by the trailers.

The first PV 0:13, 0:19, 0:21 this one even appears in the character PV with different colouring, 0:24, 0:28, 0:36, 0:38

The character PV 0:09, 0:20, 0:25, 0:27, 0:33
0:25 and 0:27 are probably the worse, that garish Red does not help the already poor animation.

Also, smaller complaints, like I mentioned before the lost of the terrified Demon face and Musashi’s insane face, changing the colour of Tsugumi’s weapons to something more boring looking, Kojiro not smoking. I believe there’s some law about showing underage characters smoking or something? I remember David Production having to black out Jotaro’s face when he smoked in Stardust Crusaders. In the new character reveals, Shirou’s crucifix necklace looks pretty weird.


https://orient-anime.jp/character/detail/?chara=05

Still curious who's doing OP/ED. I hope they don't cheap out even more and just get Yuma Uchida to do either the OP or ED
I don’t think it’s a matter of Kodansha/Avex being cheap or having no faith in Orient, it’s just manga with large scale battles like Orient are difficult to adapt and tend to get middling adaptations like Kingdom, Berserk 2016/17, Altair: A Record of Battles, The Heroic Legend of Arslan, Souten Kouro. Vinland Saga is probably the best attempt so far at animating large scale battles.

Altair was even done by everyone’s new favourite studio Mappa because of JJK and the CSM PV, but it still ended up being a poor adaptation despite having a good director Kazuhiro Furuhashi. He worked on Hunter x Hunter 1999, Dororo 2019, the Rurouni Kenshin TV series and the Trust & Betrayal OVA.

Mappa was juggling too many projects at once Altair, Kakegurui, Shingeki no Bahamut Virgin Soul, Inuyashiki and Garo Vanishing Line. I believe the director was also working on a movie around the same time as well. So Altair suffered in terms of animation, it also rushed through the source material to the point even animeonly people noticed and skipped a pretty important navel battle to avoid animating it.

Orient not only has large scale battles, but ones where most of the soldiers are capable of flight, detailed monster designs, those crystal constructs when people use their powers. There are also crazy set pieces like a bunch of demons banding together to form a tsunami on land that proceeds to destroy a castle while the main characters ride their motorcycle through that madness to save someone in the nick of time, imagine trying to animate all this.

I got these screenshots from someone that saw that Crunchyroll expo thing, and the producer does mention that they talked with various companies so it’s not like A.C.G.T was their first choice.


Most studios and directors probably figured it would be a daunting task trying to adapt this manga and passed on it, this probably kept on happening until it reached A.C.G.T a studio way too small, who hadn’t headed the production of an anime in years and even the anime they had worked on in the past were no where near the scale of Orient.

Unfortunately, this studio chose to accept this task despite it being way beyond their capabilities. Similar to how most studios turned down doing the Final Season of Attack on Titan because of the insane schedule and having to live up to Wit Studio’s amazing work on the series until Mappa a studio known for taking on too many projects at once and burdening their animators chose to pick it up.

Berserk is a hugely successful and influential series yet with its most recent anime adaptation it got a studio that had never been in charge of a full anime production before (GEMBA) and one that only worked on a gag series with limited animation (Millepensee). I guess some manga are just not meant to be animated.
 

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I was already losing interest in the anime after seeing Engoku Tengu and the Character PV didn’t really help. I don’t know if I’m gonna bother watching it. If even the first episode is this unpolished, I can’t imagine what the rest of the series looks like. That MAD was a more effective trailer than either of the two PVs so far.




I know in animation a character’s appearance will vary depending on who is drawing them and the animation director, but Musashi looks kinda off depending on the shot and most of these should be in the same episode as well. Pretty much all the shots in the first PV were fine imo, but in the character PV some shots look weird like the middle left one (4), his crossing hair bangs are way too low. His eyes are even incorrectly coloured purple in the bottom left shot, the level of detail in Musashi’s hair compared to his miner friends makes them look like they come from different shows, bottom middle using that cursed Musashi from that “fight” scene might be a bit unfair but it doesn’t look any better in motion.

The anime appears to love placing the characters in backgroundless voids, I don’t mind using this to highlight poignant moments but they’re really overusing it going by the trailers.

The first PV 0:13, 0:19, 0:21 this one even appears in the character PV with different colouring, 0:24, 0:28, 0:36, 0:38

The character PV 0:09, 0:20, 0:25, 0:27, 0:33
0:25 and 0:27 are probably the worse, that garish Red does not help the already poor animation.

Also, smaller complaints, like I mentioned before the lost of the terrified Demon face and Musashi’s insane face, changing the colour of Tsugumi’s weapons to something more boring looking, Kojiro not smoking. I believe there’s some law about showing underage characters smoking or something? I remember David Production having to black out Jotaro’s face when he smoked in Stardust Crusaders. In the new character reveals, Shirou’s crucifix necklace looks pretty weird.


https://orient-anime.jp/character/detail/?chara=05



I don’t think it’s a matter of Kodansha/Avex being cheap or having no faith in Orient, it’s just manga with large scale battles like Orient are difficult to adapt and tend to get middling adaptations like Kingdom, Berserk 2016/17, Altair: A Record of Battles, The Heroic Legend of Arslan, Souten Kouro. Vinland Saga is probably the best attempt so far at animating large scale battles.

Altair was even done by everyone’s new favourite studio Mappa because of JJK and the CSM PV, but it still ended up being a poor adaptation despite having a good director Kazuhiro Furuhashi. He worked on Hunter x Hunter 1999, Dororo 2019, the Rurouni Kenshin TV series and the Trust & Betrayal OVA.

Mappa was juggling too many projects at once Altair, Kakegurui, Shingeki no Bahamut Virgin Soul, Inuyashiki and Garo Vanishing Line. I believe the director was also working on a movie around the same time as well. So Altair suffered in terms of animation, it also rushed through the source material to the point even animeonly people noticed and skipped a pretty important navel battle to avoid animating it.

Orient not only has large scale battles, but ones where most of the soldiers are capable of flight, detailed monster designs, those crystal constructs when people use their powers. There are also crazy set pieces like a bunch of demons banding together to form a tsunami on land that proceeds to destroy a castle while the main characters ride their motorcycle through that madness to save someone in the nick of time, imagine trying to animate all this.

I got these screenshots from someone that saw that Crunchyroll expo thing, and the producer does mention that they talked with various companies so it’s not like A.C.G.T was their first choice.


Most studios and directors probably figured it would be a daunting task trying to adapt this manga and passed on it, this probably kept on happening until it reached A.C.G.T a studio way too small, who hadn’t headed the production of an anime in years and even the anime they had worked on in the past were no where near the scale of Orient.

Unfortunately, this studio chose to accept this task despite it being way beyond their capabilities. Similar to how most studios turned down doing the Final Season of Attack on Titan because of the insane schedule and having to live up to Wit Studio’s amazing work on the series until Mappa a studio known for taking on too many projects at once and burdening their animators chose to pick it up.

Berserk is a hugely successful and influential series yet with its most recent anime adaptation it got a studio that had never been in charge of a full anime production before (GEMBA) and one that only worked on a gag series with limited animation (Millepensee). I guess some manga are just not meant to be animated.
Honestly the Tengu was probably the best part from the first PV. It looked quite good and much better than expected so I may be lenient on that side. The announcement trailer was more effective tbh and you can tell when the anime announcement garnered more attention than the anime PV itself.

The void backgrounds seems like a direction choice by Tetsuya. Iirc he did that quite a lot for DxD, it honestly makes the anime look very dated and looks like its struggling.

I mean it's cheap if they just have Yuma to do the OP/ED. I think the best way to sum up Orient's anime is that it's mismanaged. If Kodansha didn't care about Orient then it wouldn't get an anime period.

I think you're overestimating how difficult Orient is to adapt, sure it is difficult but would argue not as hard as you may think. AoT is much harder to adapt imo with the frequent titan battles and adapting the ODM gear's movement. Also Kingdom S3 is actually good, plus there's been war arcs/anime in shonens like in Naruto/OP that looked good. I don't see that as much of an excuse and let's be honest most of Awaji were battles against humans and not so much against demons. Honestly the first battle in the first arc, final battle in Daito/Awaji would be the hardest to adapt.

The producer is a cunt lmao. I don't believe that dipshit for a second when he said he was a fan of Ohtaka's work and that they settled with ACGT. That's unbelievably disrespectful to Ohtaka. ACGT is quite literally one of the worst picks and highly, highly, highly doubt that studios like MAPPA/JC Staff would reject Orient. It's very clear that they haven't looked that far if they're settling with ACGT, a studio that hardly produces anime and most of their anime in the past aged terribly. The producer had zero experience on the animation side iirc as he mainly worked on the music side of anime. This is why it's mismanaged and not so much that a bunch of studios rejected it. I wouldn't believe him for a second lol
 

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Honestly the Tengu was probably the best part from the first PV. It looked quite good and much better than expected so I may be lenient on that side. The announcement trailer was more effective tbh and you can tell when the anime announcement garnered more attention than the anime PV itself.
You must have been expecting Berserk 2016/17 quality if this exceeded your expectations, they stripped Tengu down until it was barely more than a silhouette.


Obviously, that amount of detail isn’t feasible in animation, it’s more the colour scheme that bothers me, I know Engoku Tengu is referred to as a Red Demon but in the manga it seemed like a living volcano or something (especially in that double page spread below) but in the anime it looks more like a giant slime/goo monster. I don’t mind the simplified design if Tengu is animated well, but it’s looking doubtful that is going to be the case.

Eh the announcement trailer itself wasn’t impressive, it got more attention because it was exactly that an announcement that Orient was getting an anime.

I think you're overestimating how difficult Orient is to adapt, sure it is difficult but would argue not as hard as you may think. AoT is much harder to adapt imo with the frequent titan battles and adapting the ODM gear's movement. Also Kingdom S3 is actually good, plus there's been war arcs/anime in shonens like in Naruto/OP that looked good. I don't see that as much of an excuse and let's be honest most of Awaji were battles against humans and not so much against demons. Honestly the first battle in the first arc, final battle in Daito/Awaji would be the hardest to adapt.
Gotta disagree there






































Outside of the Armoured Titan, Colossal Titan and Beast Titan, the other titans aren’t that complex they’re just giant naked people. Also the uniformity of the Titans mobs probably helps, once you get the hang of animating them you’re good to go since they’re mostly similar looking, while the Demons in Orient come in different shapes and sizes, so you’d have to learn how to draw each of the different designs as they appear. Wit Studio struggled to animate the AT and CT during season 2 which is why the latter is CGI and the former doesn’t move that much. 15:12-17:02 for the video below.


>Breaking Down Attack on Titan's (All Seasons) Incredible Animation | Animator Spotlight

19:10-19:36
Apparently the fight between Levi and the Beast Titan took one month to storyboard and three months to animate, and that’s just a fight between one dude and a giant creature. Compared to the battle with Engoku Tengu, where it’s the Takeda army all flying around Tengu, getting into formation along with Musashi also trying to fight it and the other demons trying to get in his way. He even caused a landslide to knock Tengu on its ass. There’s a lot of movement here and these characters don’t have simple designs.

Ohtaka herself couldn’t keep up with a weekly publication after a while, I don’t know the exact reason why, but if I had to guess, it’s probably because drawing some of these designs and large scale battles weekly just wasn’t feasible. While the series was weekly she also apparently never had time to do new colour pages instead reusing volume covers. I believe the same thing happened to Makoto Yukimura while working on Vinland Saga which also started off in Weekly Shonen Magazine before moving to a monthly publication.

Speaking of Vinland Saga, the people at Sakugablog also mention that anime struggles with large scale battles.

https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2019/07/02/summer-2019-anime-preview/

“To raise that bar even higher, Yukimura’s stunning drawings also happen to focus on plenty of elements that hand-drawn anime often struggles to depict; sprawling uncoordinated crowds during battles, large solid structures like boats, and the constant waves rocking them about.”

Kingdom S3 isn’t really that noteworthy from an animation standpoint, they’re not using CGI for mundane things like people just talking anymore, the characters are on model, but the actual animation isn’t really that impressive most of the time, similar to Berserk 1997. But I guess it’s better than what Orient is shaping up to be.

Long running anime like Naruto and One Piece have very fluctuating quality, admittedly it has been a while since I watched them, but I doubt they were anything more than passable with the occasional highlights here and there like when Naotoshi Shida showed up to animate Luffy standing off against the three Admiral or when Ace was freed.

Besides Marineford and the Fourth Shinobi World War aren’t really wars in the same way as those other series I mentioned, they’re mostly just a collection of small fights between named characters, not really huge armies all moving at once. The only noteworthy part of the FSWW I recall that captures the feeling of a large scale battle and is well animated is Naruto Shippuuden Episode 322.

This is probably just cope, but it’s seriously surprising that the first episode is this unpolished I mean they announced the anime was in the works in January (it was in production before then) and it has been almost a year since that announcement. So maybe they’re not animating the episodes in order, and instead prioritizing the more animation demanding episodes? That Canipa Effect video mentioned how Imai asked to get a head start on animating the difficult scenes, so maybe something similar is happening here. Like even some of the most inadequate anime productions at least manage a decent first episode before they fall apart.

The producer is a cunt lmao. I don't believe that dipshit for a second when he said he was a fan of Ohtaka's work and that they settled with ACGT. That's unbelievably disrespectful to Ohtaka. ACGT is quite literally one of the worst picks and highly, highly, highly doubt that studios like MAPPA/JC Staff would reject Orient. It's very clear that they haven't looked that far if they're settling with ACGT, a studio that hardly produces anime and most of their anime in the past aged terribly. The producer had zero experience on the animation side iirc as he mainly worked on the music side of anime. This is why it's mismanaged and not so much that a bunch of studios rejected it. I wouldn't believe him for a second lol
Then why else would anyone pick them? I mean it’s not even like these guys are all that well known. So that makes it hard to believe that could be anyone’s first choice, even if the producer is new that still doesn’t explain the choice of studio, he’s still a part of a company and no doubt has someone overlooking him or other people to seek advice from. Besides, according to him it was Kodansha that looked for the studio to animate Orient not Avex Pictures so that producer didn’t pick them.

A.C.G.T are a really obscure studio, if you asked a bunch of people to name all the anime studios they know you’d never hear their name. You’d have to go out of your way to get them for this project. Nanatsu no Tazai season 3 and One Punch Man season 2 were both rushed out the gate and they got DEEN (Marvy Jack) and J.C. Staff, both of which seem more like “we didn’t look very hard” choices. Both studios are fairly well known despite the mediocre quality of their output and both seem intent to tackle multiple projects at once while spreading their staff too thin across those projects.

Mappa is probably pouring as much of their resources as they can into Chainsawman, apparently Shueisha is the only other company on the CSM production committee apart from themselves so Mappa stands more to gain if the anime is a huge success. Don’t know about J.C. Staff.
 

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Character PV #2

Still more of a slideshow but at least characters look more on model this time around. There's a screening event for the first 2 episodes so I'm assuming the first arc is only 2 episodes - which is how it should be (would be better if they tease Tsugumi at the end of episode 2). Speaking of Tsugumi, hope we don't have to wait a month just for hers.

OST's are nice. I liked the OST from the anime announcement trailer the most so far but not sure if that's part of the anime.
 

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Probably the best trailer so far in my opinion, still not a lot of movement, but at least the Takeda were on model, none of those voids and the music was pretty cool. The shots of the motorcycles leaving the castle and Naotora drawing his sword were neat.

The colouring seems to be in fluctuation, like the shot of Naotora holding Tengu’s horn here depicts it as orange while in the first PV it was more blue or translucent. Also the use of red to set the atmosphere is way more intense and dreary here compared to the first PV.

I don’t think they will, but if they actually try to cram the first 8 chapters into only two episodes, then I’m definitely done with the anime. Chapter 1 was 68 pages, Chapter 2 was 48 pages, Chapter 3 was 36 pages, Chapter 4 was 37 pages. And then finally with Chapter 5 the standard page count of 20 started.
 

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Character PV

Out of all the characters Tsugumi definitely looks the best when compared to her manga counterpart, but again the animation ....
 

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Nice OST & Rie Takahashi is an excellent VA. I'm glad they're keeping those comical faces that Ohtaka is known for, I want to see more of this
 

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Some nice animation during the parts where Tsugumi is playing with those kids and using her weapons, neat sunset background in the former scene. I like the way the camera moves around the weapon as all the components snap into place. Still not black like in Ohtaka’s coloured illustrations, but better than the gray in the first PV I guess.

Wasn’t expecting Hideo and those kids to have such similar looking colour schemes to Tsugumi, pretty sure they’re not blood related. Even Musashi’s miner friends had similar reddish hair. Given the importance of colour to the battle system and the demons, I doubt Ohtaka is not being consulted, so I guess that’s how they’re meant to look.

Really weird how the first of these character PVs is the worst looking so far, especially because of the prescreening, it's also the only one that tried to show a full fight scene. Looking at the character PVs for other anime series they don’t tend to show that much.



I guess the second main PV will show if they can deliver any decent action or not. No new character reveals this month, so it does seem like it will only be one cour and the first three arcs. If so hopefully it makes the project easier to manage.
 

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New cover with all the characters, including even the Obsidian Goddess.
This season is definitely ending with Daito Mine. Probably wont go further. I am eager to see how they gonna animate Shiro doing his stuff lol :tem
 
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The designs look noticeably worse here. I'm confident that Kishida didn't do this visual which is weird and also got colored designs for Shrio & Nanano which were done by Kishida himself for reference.


Perhaps Junji Goto designed this latest key visual?
 

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How do you like the last chapter?:cheez
I'm talking about 122 and 123, where the author rolled out a lot of story lore after Kojiro was sucked into the crystal :yodawg

P.s Plus he is completely wilted after the meeting with his father in the crystal (it's funny if he will be the heir-emperor of Hinamoto, I expect an interesting reaction from Tsugumi :umad)
 

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Best animated cut we've seen by far. It does look like maybe from the OP/ED but I hope I'm wrong. Regardless looks great

It's ripped from the anime website (they added clips and this was the only new one)
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Volume 14
 

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Ohtaka drew Orient x Magi illustration
This is not a valid comparison of characters, lol

Musashi = combo of cool Alibaba+Sinbad and not Shitladin

Kojirou = combo of Alibaba+ Koen

Tsugumi = Kougyoku 2.0 with tons hillarious face expression
 

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Orient's first episode was livestreamed on twitch and it was bad. It was hardly animated and what bothered me is that they only adapted the first chapter, poor choice. The first arc was meh so they should've done what fire force has done tbh. This arc can easily be told in 2 episodes, it's mainly action..

Sadly watched it on mute so couldn't listen to the OST but overall yikes.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Nice, Da-Ice is doing the opening for Orient


Preview of illustration that'll come in celebration of volume 14/anime
 

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--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

 

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The Shiro/Nanao PV looks nice. It's the best looking PV and better than the main PV imo lol. It looks like they've ditched Kishida's designs as well


--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Nakaba Suzuki drew Tsugumi
 

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I really wasnt expecting much, but god damn the 1st episode is rough, like really really rough. I know that the Engoku Tengu arc has a mid start, but the anime made it look even less appealing. Shame Ohtaka drew the short straw with the anime adaptation.
Honestly the best thing at this moment is the OST. Its really good.
Other than that, i have a feeling we gonna see lots of power point presentations in the next episodes.
 
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