question about logia powers

[kkck]

From what I gather we have seen instances of both scenarios. Smoker was seen being pushed back by ace's physical body during alabasta and from that point onward I think we have seen several instances of people just transforming into their element reflexively. Wasn't this said to be an issue of fruit mastery so to speak?

 

[RichardMNixon]

Well, I like my explanation for that and that is that Aokiji knew it won't hurt him and chose not to activate his power.

The other camp here would probably explain it with logia ability itself deciding it wouldn't hurt Aokiji and choosing not to intervene. As if it's intelligent or something.

I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive. You could train yourself to disperse reflexively (like a fight-or-flight response) while still having conscious control over yourself when you choose to.

 

[Azuma]

Well the Main Problem i have with your theory, that a Logia User must be aware of an attack to doge it through elemental changing, is, that this implies that ANYONE can really hurt a Logia user if the Logia user is just not paying attention and/or didnt see any attack coming. So any good sniper can Kill a Logia User wth a good shot if the User wasnt aware of an attack. But Such thing never happened in One Piece, so i dont believe it.
Also i dont believe that every Logia User automaticly has CoO to doge any attack better.

I beliee, and i have no reason to dont believe it, that the Elemental Form is omnipresent.
But that a Logia User cant Touch anything is something which was never a Role in One piece, dont know why u came up with this.
All that we know is - A Logia User can Touch anything he wants. Like if he is giving a Hand Shake or eating something.
And what we also know is, that every time a Bullet or Sword attack comes to a logia User, it will go through.

The Alabasta example with Smoker is nice. But its like the only time something like this happens, and it goes against all the 'Rules' we learned about Logia in the Whole Plot til that time and from that time on to present day.
Maybe someone needs to ask Oda why Smoker was Pushed away by Luffy insdead of Luffy slipping through. Then we can have a clear answer.

Maybe he would say its the Tension of an upcoming Battle between Smoker and Ace.

The problem with the theory that it's omnipresent is the fact that they can touch objects though. There is no difference between you being punched in the face and you touching something. In both cases, a force is applied on you. One possibility is that the Logia fruit doesn't really come into effect until the force applied is large enough to force it to do so. There are several issues with this too though.

The most logical conclusion is that they have to activate it manually, which also seems to be the most plausible one given that there are a handful of examples showing the Logia user being touched.

 

[Razh]

I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive. You could train yourself to disperse reflexively (like a fight-or-flight response) while still having conscious control over yourself when you choose to.

Well, that's just like training your reflexes, so that you can react to a fast movement or attack. Like in tennis for fast balls, or martial arts with kicks and punches. The only difference here is that instead of moving/dodging, logias activate ther power. I'd say it's like when you touch a cactus with your finger and your hand just twitches back. With enough training, you could say the body reacts on it's own, because the user is well prepared for attacks.

 

[KuroKarasu]

Well it's been a while but the matter of Logias is still not clear to me. I've always thought that in order to let an attack pass through you, you have to be aware of it. Unless you trained yourself to activate the power on reflex. That would also explain the handshake matter - it's not a Reflex if you touch something on purpose so there is no reason why you would turn into the element.

But there is one Thing I don't understand. As far as I know Luffy was only able to hit Enel because he was made of Rubber. But if the Reflex theory is true then Enel could have been hit by Luffy's attacks even without him being rubber - just by punching against the wall and making the attacks unpredictable. That could actually work against every Logia then. Unless of course Enel did train the reflex thing aswell. So I'm not sure what to believe anymore.

Also I have a second question and I would love to hear an answer to this one: It was stated that Logias are easier targets if they increase their body volume. But why? If a Logia turns completely into his element does that mean that EVERY inch of the fruits substance (for example smoke) is basically one tiny part of the user's body and you can therefore hit him even if he doesn't have a body shape anymore? Or if there is a huge Logia wall like in the Ace vs. Aokiji fight. If ace had transformed himself into fire WHILE the wall was there then there would have been no way to hit him right? Because the wall had nothing to do with his body and he could hide himself in the "created" fire. Just confusing to me.


PS: Logia without Haki -> Caribou

 

[Seafarer]

Until we're shown otherwise by Oda I will consider that logia powers activate automatically whether the user is aware of the attack or not. The moment harm should come to their body, it transforms and the damage is ignored, period. If anyone could negate the logia's physical immunity by simply taking them unaware, it wouldn't be that great a power.
As for situations such as Smoker & Ace in chapter 158, I think they should be shrugged off in the name of comic relief.

Regarding your second question, I think the body of a logia user transformed into its elemental form and a volume of the element created by the user as part of an attack or defense are different things.
- any part of the former can still be touched by a haki user, resulting in damage to the logia.
- whereas the later is a completely independant object. When Ace uses his fire pistol ability, he is not throwing a part of his body at his opponent.

 

[HereNThere]

But there is one Thing I don't understand. As far as I know Luffy was only able to hit Enel because he was made of Rubber. But if the Reflex theory is true then Enel could have been hit by Luffy's attacks even without him being rubber - just by punching against the wall and making the attacks unpredictable. That could actually work against every Logia then. Unless of course Enel did train the reflex thing aswell. So I'm not sure what to believe anymore.

It's never been stated whether or not Enel had trained his fruit to activate on reflex. Making the attacks unpredictable possibly could have worked, but since Enel was in a fight, I see no reason for him to deactivate his intangibility so if Luffy wasn't rubber, his attack still would have just phased through. Remember he only did that to mess with Enel's predictions.

Seafearer answered your second question pretty well I believe.

Until we're shown otherwise by Oda I will consider that logia powers activate automatically whether the user is aware of the attack or not. The moment harm should come to their body, it transforms and the damage is ignored, period. If anyone could negate the logia's physical immunity by simply taking them unaware, it wouldn't be that great a power.
As for situations such as Smoker & Ace in chapter 158, I think they should be shrugged off in the name of comic relief.

I disagree. I think it's perfectly fine to think that a Logia user could be taken unaware easily if they are in human form. I don't think their minds should automatically adjust to activate intangibility reflexively.

 

[vasilis]

i think JUST for crocodile that even haki wont hurt him
i mean, people can touch him already, he is just sand

he isnt ethereal like fire, or lightning or something
he is solid

 

[HereNThere]

Ice and snow isn't ephemeral either but both were effected by haki. Crocodile was hit by Jozu and was damaged. People can touch sand, but you can't damage Crocodile.

 

[TheLuffySmile]

I'll just put these pages here and take my leave

Here's ace

 

[Greasybuttsex]

yep, posted then realized the above has the same thing there u go

 

[Schabrak]

i think JUST for crocodile that even haki wont hurt him
i mean, people can touch him already, he is just sand

Akainu is a magma-man and haki attack's did hit him, but his own CoA seemed to be stronger the the attacking person, so it didn't matter. Borsalino's light might not be physically touchable, but he made it solid anyway. Your concept of logia powers seems to be a bit faulty.

 

[TheLuffySmile]

Akainu is a magma-man and haki attack's did hit him, but his own CoA seemed to be stronger the the attacking person, so it didn't matter. Borsalino's light might not be physically touchable, but he made it solid anyway. Your concept of logia powers seems to be a bit faulty.

Quite so if I may say sir
People have to remember that many of the ways some elements interact/work in real life is very different from that of the Logia's in One piece, hence why bullets which are also physical just breeze trough Sir Croco like it's no biggie

 

[BurnSchulz]

I'll just put these pages here and take my leave

Spoiler

Here's ace

Maybe because Luffy hit Smokers Jitte? Since we know that inside his Jitte is Seastone.

 

[Seafarer]

Could be. Either way, I stand by the superior need for comic relief, which excuses the occasional infringement: the scene would have played quite differently if Luffy had simply crashed through Smoker and Ace.

 

[TheLuffySmile]

Maybe because Luffy hit Smokers Jitte? Since we know that inside his Jitte is Seastone.

Smoker also pushes Ace's face down into the ground. And to me, it looks like Smoker-san's Jitte is more fastened across his back rather than being fastened along it, hence Luffy is hitting him directly from behind.

 

[BurnSchulz]

Smoker also pushes Ace's face down into the ground. And to me, it looks like Smoker-san's Jitte is more fastened across his back rather than being fastened along it, hence Luffy is hitting him directly from behind.

Exactly.. he hits him from behind. And on his back is his Jitte. Thats why i came up with this idea.
But i believe what Seafarer said could be the main reason here.
If every other explaination fails, and truly this is the only time something like this happens with Logia type, we need to ask oda.
But i sadly dont know anyone who would ask him directly. All the ones who sending him questions for the SPS are making troll or fun questions...

 

[TheLuffySmile]

Exactly.. he hits him from behind. And on his back is his Jitte. Thats why i came up with this idea.
But i believe what Seafarer said could be the main reason here.
If every other explaination fails, and truly this is the only time something like this happens with Logia type, we need to ask oda.
But i sadly dont know anyone who would ask him directly. All the ones who sending him questions for the SPS are making troll or fun questions...

Gaaah... You can clearly see that Luffy hits him in the lower regions of his back, and his Jitte is positioned across his back not along it... But whatever. Would Oda-sensei really compromise the integrity of the Logia fruits just for some comic relief? I don't think so, but we wont know for sure unless we ask Oda-sensei himself. And you still ignored my point of Smoker-San pushing ace face down into the ground when Ace is focused on Luffy and not watching his back. And since those two examples are actually the only ones we have been given (I know u mentioned it as well) concerning Logia's being vulnerable when careless, I'd say that my point still stands.

 

[See Mohn]

Come to think of it, Luffy's perhaps got the weirdest fruit in the whole series. As in, it's a paramecia type, but it grants a permanent change to his body. As far as I'm aware, no other fruit power can be passively activated- by a third party, even- underwater. (Arlong arc, remember). No logia fruit can do that (as far as we know so far).

 

[vasilis]

since we speak about smoker and ace
i have to say, smoke seems a promising fruit, i mean it lacks the firepower most logia have but its power like that as far as i can think, smoke has no "real weakness"
its pretty much neutral, so assumping smoker gets some real haki boost and explores his fruit (he still uses it in a very limited way) he will be a very fierce opponent