Discussion Ranking the Sins

[Holt]

Mel's reflected attack was not on par with ST at all. The reflected was still not that big, and it can't be that the Albions blast has 5500 since that is the total amount of strength and physical power combined, so i wouldn't say it's most powerful blast was probably around 3500 at most. And it got divided into 5, which would make them each have 700 of power, wich should be slightly less than what I'm assuming is the maximum for each clone to handle. The reflected attack was more likely 7000 than 11000. And half of that power came from the albion itself. And the shield and holy knights were more defensive than Mel, who just deflected to of Albion's attacks, one of which was directed at him specifically. And hadn't it been for Merlin's floating mama hawk and Diane's throw Meliodas could probably not have even managed to reach Albion's arm. So, there you have it, Mel only did half the work, while King has taken as many strikes from an Albion as Merlin's shield, plus the energy blasts and unlike Mel. Also, Mel and Merlin knew about Albion beforehand and how to deal with it, while King was appearantly a complete stranger to the situation. Mel had several strategic advantages from the start, so if anyone outclassed anyone it was King who outclassed Meliodas.

The stat doesn't mean anything because we cannot confirm the strength behind both attacks. Infact, there's never really been an instance where attacks are given a stat level. We are only given the stats of the fighters.
See the pics here:

Spoiler: The attacks

King's attack:

Mel's attack:

That's why I said comparable. Firstly, we have to take into account that the fat albion is several times bigger than the thin. When we adjust their sizes and compare, Mel's attack might have even been larger than King's. Mel took out everything from the head to halfway of its stomach. King took out from below the neck to the waist. Both attacks are about the same level. Even if Mel hadn't reached the arm, he could have just cut up the legs and thus bring it to the ground and finish it off. King can fly so it's basically the same thing. Also, king was fighting on home ground so he also had an advantage.

Mel's knowledge about Albion wasn't anything extraordinary. Sure he knew about it, but even without said knowledge, he can still cut it and reflect its attacks. I don't see how the knowledge changed anything in regards to the attack. The most you could say is that he aimed for the core but it is perfectly normal to aim the head and chest areas in a fight. What one should ask is, if King had known about albion, what would have changed? Nothing.

 

[overlordpringerx]

The stat doesn't mean anything because we cannot confirm the strength behind both attacks. Infact, there's never really been an instance where attacks are given a stat level. We are only given the stats of the fighters.
See the pics here:

Spoiler: The attacks

King's attack:

Mel's attack:

That's why I said comparable. Firstly, we have to take into account that the fat albion is several times bigger than the thin. When we adjust their sizes and compare, Mel's attack might have even been larger than King's. Mel took out everything from the head to halfway of its stomach. King took out from below the neck to the waist. Both attacks are about the same level. Even if Mel hadn't reached the arm, he could have just cut up the legs and thus bring it to the ground and finish it off. King can fly so it's basically the same thing. Also, king was fighting on home ground so he also had an advantage.

Mel's knowledge about Albion wasn't anything extraordinary. Sure he knew about it, but even without said knowledge, he can still cut it and reflect its attacks. I don't see how the knowledge changed anything in regards to the attack. The most you could say is that he aimed for the core but it is perfectly normal to aim the head and chest areas in a fight. What one should ask is, if King had known about albion, what would have changed? Nothing.

Albion's seem to have really hard cores if explosions that big are needed, and we didn't know for sure where or how big the core is, it could have been a tiny, pebble for all we know. And the fat Albion is wider but shorter than the slim albion so they have the same mass. And Albions seem to be at will, so cutting down the legs might not have worked out and it could have caused Merlin's shield to break quicker only for the Albion to crush everything as it falls down. Also, King being in the fairy forest doesn't influence his powers. Helbram could use the roots in lyoness, far far away. And as I already said with Meliodas part of that explosion was caused by Albion itself. So given the circumstances, I'd say they are even right now.

 

[Holt]

Albion's seem to have really hard cores if explosions that big are needed, and we didn't know for sure where or how big the core is, it could have been a tiny, pebble for all we know. And the fat Albion is wider but shorter than the slim albion so they have the same mass. And Albions seem to be at will, so cutting down the legs might not have worked out and it could have caused Merlin's shield to break quicker only for the Albion to crush everything as it falls down. Also, King being in the fairy forest doesn't influence his powers. Helbram could use the roots in lyoness, far far away. And as I already said with Meliodas part of that explosion was caused by Albion itself. So given the circumstances, I'd say they are even right now.

Yeah those are 'ifs'. Like I said, the outcome and methods used to defeat albion in both cases are logical and would have been done with or without said info, hence why I said it isn't a big deal.
As for the albions, that was my point. The attacks were comparable seeing as Mel (effortlessly) reproduced a similar attack which took every ounce of King's ability to muster and even tearing him up in the process. As for albion producing part of the explosion, that's just mel's ability so there's nothing wrong with that. Yes I'm aware they can use the powers anywhere but you've been bringing up 'advantages' Mel had which didn't affect the battle nearly as much as you are suggesting. King being in the fairy forest most likely has advantages though.

As for them being equals, that's debatable but obviously the sins are tough. In a general sense, they are about the same but the manga hints numerous times that Mel is superior. Anyway my issue was with you claiming King completely outclassed Mel against albion. That was what I refuted.

 

[lightningsha]

I agree Mel had a way easier time defeating the albion with his full counter and St special ability. That's why we can say he outclassed King who struggled more with it.

However the bulk of the power output used to defeat the albion in Mel's case came from the albion itself. King's power level and attack jumped to 10-11k. All of which came from himself. If you look at it from that perspective, King definitely became about 3x more powerful than Mel himself during that battle. We now know Mel needs to release his demon power in order to move his PL past 3.3k.

Currently both characters have difficulties around the 10k power level as we've seen so far. King's body apparently can barely handle that amount and Mel has some major control issues involving his state of mind when going demon mode. Of course we know that Mel's potential rivals or exceeds Galan at full power, but currently he is restricted by control issues, possibly being rusty, and missing whatever Merlin took from him.

 

[Holt]

However the bulk of the power output used to defeat the albion in Mel's case came from the albion itself. King's power level and attack jumped to 10-11k. All of which came from himself. If you look at it from that perspective, King definitely became about 3x more powerful than Mel himself during that battle. We now know Mel needs to release his demon power in order to move his PL past 3.3k.

Currently both characters have difficulties around the 10k power level as we've seen so far. King's body apparently can barely handle that amount and Mel has some major control issues involving his state of mind when going demon mode. Of course we know that Mel's potential rivals or exceeds Galan at full power, but currently he is restricted by control issues, possibly being rusty, and missing whatever Merlin took from him.

Fair point. However a few things to be considered. It's quite clear that King's release is a sort of demon form for him but it is a one time thing which leaves him drained afterwards. Mel's demon power on the other hand is constant (and possibly increases as the battle progresses). If they were to fight alone and all out, then Mel doesn't have to fight to remain in control. He can just give in like he did in byzel. The control thing is a problem when he has friends to protect/worry about and so tries to keep his sanity. In a straight one on one brawl, he doesn't need to fight it.

 

[lightningsha]

Fair point. However a few things to be considered. It's quite clear that King's release is a sort of demon form for him but it is a one time thing which leaves him drained afterwards. Mel's demon power on the other hand is constant (and possibly increases as the battle progresses). If they were to fight alone and all out, then Mel doesn't have to fight to remain in control. He can just give in like he did in byzel. The control thing is a problem when he has friends to protect/worry about and so tries to keep his sanity. In a straight one on one brawl, he doesn't need to fight it.

I also agree Mel has no problem containing the power and in fact his demon mode body seems to naturally keep accumulating powers almost as if was spreading a virus. Very dangerous. All in all Mel will definitely have the easiest time out of everyone achieving those heights as long as he resolves those issues described.

I don't know enough about what we saw with King to make any strong conjectures. All we know is that him attaining that level or power was brief and it damaged his body. He clearly can't handle it the way he was now. What's interesting about this is that it could suggest he could pull out even more power if only he could handle it. People have suggested him having a possible final fairy form with wings and such. That could possibly solve this problem. Otherwise I don't see him ever being able to maintain that level of power or higher for a long period of time.

 

[Holt]

I don't know enough about what we saw with King to make any strong conjectures. All we know is that him attaining that level or power was brief and it damaged his body. He clearly can't handle it the way he was now. What's interesting about this is that it could suggest he could pull out even more power if only he could handle it. People have suggested him having a possible final fairy form with wings and such. That could possibly solve this problem. Otherwise I don't see him ever being able to maintain that level of power or higher for a long period of time.

Well yeah, I believe he'll come to be able to control this power and possibly sustain it for long periods on battle. If he can manage this, he'll certainly be a force and one who could potentially match a commandment but he doesn't have that for now hence why Mel is likely superior.
King could end up being among the top 3 strongest (alongside Mel and Escanor) eventually but I still think Merlin is slightly above him as of now.

 

[Demonspeed]

Mel's reflected attack was not on par with ST at all. The reflected was still not that big, and it can't be that the Albions blast has 5500 since that is the total amount of strength and physical power combined, so i wouldn't say it's most powerful blast was probably around 3500 at most. And it got divided into 5, which would make them each have 700 of power, wich should be slightly less than what I'm assuming is the maximum for each clone to handle. The reflected attack was more likely 7000 than 11000. And half of that power came from the albion itself. And the shield and holy knights were more defensive than Mel, who just deflected to of Albion's attacks, one of which was directed at him specifically. And hadn't it been for Merlin's floating mama hawk and Diane's throw Meliodas could probably not have even managed to reach Albion's arm. So, there you have it, Mel only did half the work, while King has taken as many strikes from an Albion as Merlin's shield, plus the energy blasts and unlike Mel. Also, Mel and Merlin knew about Albion beforehand and how to deal with it, while King was appearantly a complete stranger to the situation. Mel had several strategic advantages from the start, so if anyone outclassed anyone it was King who outclassed Meliodas.

Meliodas's allies have not been that important, they were fodders, just like King's subjects. Merlin used her barriers to protect the city and he intervened to protect the soldiers and citizen, he was not the target of its attack, he then had to go protect Arthur, excluding Merlin they were more of a burden. How would he be unable to reach Albion when he can jump very high? When he attacked Albion he was not on Mama Hawk. King used Sunflower, Increase, Guardian, Bumblebee, it was ineffective but once Mel got his ST he easily cut Albion's arms, and no matter the size of the core, Meliodas's reflected attacks were overkill too, he said it himself. His slashes had more power than all the attacks King used, and he was perfectly fine after this fight,

I agree Mel has no problem containing the power and in fact his demon mode body seems to naturally keep accumulating powers almost as if was spreading a virus. Very dangerous. All in all Mel will definitely have the easiest time out of everyone achieving those heights as long as he resolves those issues described.

I don't know enough about what we saw with King to make any strong conjectures. All we know is that him attaining that level or power was brief and it damaged his body. He clearly can't handle it the way he was now. What's interesting about this is that it could suggest he could pull out even more power if only he could handle it. People have suggested him having a possible final fairy form with wings and such. That could possibly solve this problem. Otherwise I don't see him ever being able to maintain that level of power or higher for a long period of time.

Kign will have to become much stronger than this to fight the Commandments so he will learn to maintain that level of power somehow.

 

[lightningsha]

Well yeah, I believe he'll come to be able to control this power and possibly sustain it for long periods on battle. If he can manage this, he'll certainly be a force and one who could potentially match a commandment but he doesn't have that for now hence why Mel is likely superior.
King could end up being among the top 3 strongest (alongside Mel and Escanor) eventually but I still think Merlin is slightly above him as of now.

Yeah this is where I stand on the rankings and endgame predictions. As of now I can see Merlin defeating King in a match. She simple has too many tricks packed to the brim up her sleeve which we haven't seen yet to state otherwise. I know that her repertoire at least will exceed any of the Sins. I don't like making any strong conclusions about a character if we haven't seen enough of what they can do, so I'll stop here with her. I have to say Merlin is my favorite female character and I eagerly await her unleashing more of what she's capable of. It's why I'm hoping she is part of some ruse happening in the most recent clusterfuck chapter.

 

[Leoat12]

We will have to take in consideration Meliodas demon power, which makes him the first place easily, if activated. The ranking above I'm supposing that it is inactive.

1) Merlin: Hawk ability already showed that she is more powerful than Meliodas, at least quantitatively. She is also a extremly skifull magician with plenty of abilites, while Meliodas is just a swordman, a very good one, but just this.

The rest is obvious, and doesn't need much explanation

2) Meliodas
3) Escanor: He would give a hard time to Meliodas IMO though.
4) King
5) Gowther: His true power is a still a mystery, but he is here so far.
6) Diane
7) Ban: If he weren't immortal, he would have died long time ago. XD

 

[felixng2011]

Based on what we have seen so far:

1) Meliodas with his demon powers
2) Escanor at full power. He defeated the vampire king who had a similar power level to Merlin with a casual attack. That is crazy.
3) Merlin. Highest base power out of the seven. Extreme hax. Definitely deserves 3rd.
4) King

Not sure about the rest.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

I realize I haven't ranked the sins.
1) Meliodas when he has his full power (demon mode)
2)Escanor mostly because of Sunshine
3)Merlin
4)Gowther
5)King
6)Diane or Ban
7)Ban or Diane
The issue I have with ranking Ban and Diane is because we haven't seen Ban use his ST since the death of Zaratras, so he's at a huge disadvantage. Plus he can always use Physical hunt like he did in Edinburgh and become stronger. Diane while she's the strongest physically haven't impressed me that much, so she ranks rather low.
And I guess the 8th spot should be for weakscanor

 

[overlordpringerx]

I realize I haven't ranked the sins.
1) Meliodas when he has his full power (demon mode)
2)Escanor mostly because of Sunshine
3)Merlin
4)Gowther
5)King
6)Diane or Ban
7)Ban or Diane
The issue I have with ranking Ban and Diane is because we haven't seen Ban use his ST since the death of Zaratras, so he's at a huge disadvantage. Plus he can always use Physical hunt like he did in Edinburgh and become stronger. Diane while she's the strongest physically haven't impressed me that much, so she ranks rather low.
And I guess the 8th spot should be for weakscanor

I am convinced King surpasses Gowther. So far, Gowther has the lowest base power level. I would even say he is the weakest after night-Escanor.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

I am convinced King surpasses Gowther. So far, Gowther has the lowest base power level. I would even say he is the weakest after night-Escanor.

Gowther seems to be indestructible, even absolute cancel cannot work on him, not to mention his ability is quite powerful.I don't quite remember but his power level was behind Merlin's, and we don't know King's but I guess it's possible that King is more powerful ,especially when he releases Chastiefol's true form. But if Gowther really managed to fool Galan then he's really something.
Also do not forget that the power level is just an indication of how powerful they are in theory, it goes without saying that the outcome of the fight changes depending on the conditions.

 

[Demonspeed]

The only reason I put King above Gowther is because of King's True Chastiefol, PL measures Strength, Magic and Spirit but the type of Magic or other factors are not included, Invasion is extremely dangerous.

 

[Holt]

Gowther is 3,100 though which is lower than Diane. I'm fairly sure king should be more than that. Stats aren't everything ofcourse but king is likely superior on paper. Also, king should be fast enough to evade gowther's arrows. I'm quite certain that Gowther got Galan because he didn't know he was there to begin with. In a one on one fight, chances of that happening are practically nil. About gowther's resilience due to being a doll, king can petrify him like he did Ban.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Gowther is 3,100 though which is lower than Diane. I'm fairly sure king should be more than that. Stats aren't everything ofcourse but king is likely superior on paper. Also, king should be fast enough to evade gowther's arrows. I'm quite certain that Gowther got Galan because he didn't know he was there to begin with. In a one on one fight, chances of that happening are practically nil. About gowther's resilience due to being a doll, king can petrify him like he did Ban.

Diane is only 3250 it's not that big of a difference, it's the same situation with Gil and Hauser kinda. And a lot of it is due to her strength stat which could be one of the highest in the group due to her being a giant. I don't think speed could be of much use against Gowther, remember how he used broadcast almost simultaneously on everyone including King? Yeah I bet Gowther is fast too.
Tbh I'm more interested in knowing how strong Ban is, and if he's really the weakest of the group. I hope we get to know his power level soon, and again power levels don't explain everything. Merlin couldn't trick Galan even though she's a mage and she is prolly the wisest of the group, but Gowther was able to thanks to his ability which clearly shows that power levels aren't everything.

 

[Demonspeed]

Gowther is 3,100 though which is lower than Diane. I'm fairly sure king should be more than that. Stats aren't everything ofcourse but king is likely superior on paper. Also, king should be fast enough to evade gowther's arrows. I'm quite certain that Gowther got Galan because he didn't know he was there to begin with. In a one on one fight, chances of that happening are practically nil. About gowther's resilience due to being a doll, king can petrify him like he did Ban.

Of course King can dodge Gowther's arrow and it's the same for Gowther as well, I think Gowther's PL increased when he hit Galan but that's not really important here. With one hit Invasion can, rewrite and read memories, control minds, makes you live a nightmare or other illusions etc, he can spam attacks with his Herrit Gowther's Doll body is also a big advantage, petrification is not instant, it takes time to affect the whole body and Ban let the spear affect him completely.

 

[overlordpringerx]

Of course King can dodge Gowther's arrow and it's the same for Gowther as well, I think Gowther's PL increased when he hit Galan but that's not really important here. With one hit Invasion can, rewrite and read memories, control minds, makes you live a nightmare or other illusions etc, he can spam attacks with his Herrit Gowther's Doll body is also a big advantage, petrification is not instant, it takes time to affect the whole body and Ban let the spear affect him completely.

All those abilities have a huge downside though. The memory thing can easily be undone. Nightmare teller requires close proximity to the enemy, which I dont see happenning with King. The mind control thing shouldn't be that effective either since Gowther only used it once on a weaker and relatively stupid enemy. And King should have multiple ways to kill Gowther by hitting his weak spot. We don't know how the hijacked attacks work, but my guess is, it only works if the attack involves artificial intelligience, like the golems.

 

[Holt]

Diane is only 3250 it's not that big of a difference, it's the same situation with Gil and Hauser kinda. And a lot of it is due to her strength stat which could be one of the highest in the group due to her being a giant. I don't think speed could be of much use against Gowther, remember how he used broadcast almost simultaneously on everyone including King? Yeah I bet Gowther is fast too.
Tbh I'm more interested in knowing how strong Ban is, and if he's really the weakest of the group. I hope we get to know his power level soon, and again power levels don't explain everything. Merlin couldn't trick Galan even though she's a mage and she is prolly the wisest of the group, but Gowther was able to thanks to his ability which clearly shows that power levels aren't everything.

Well its a difference of 150, which is thrice that of the diff between Gil and hauser, these are sins we are talking about so not much there anyway.
As for broadcast, it's not like the people were trying to avoid his arrows so it's a pretty different case. For example, Merlin can teleport Galan if he doesn't try to dodge (if they were on the same side for instance) but can't do so if he decides to dodge. That's a pretty extreme example but you get the point.
Human Diane did dodge his arrows after all.

About Merlin tricking Galan, why would she be able to do so? She can only play with words but she doesn't have any special magic related tricks as far as we know. It Galan didn't know she was there, I'm sure she would have been able to teleport him. Galan was not aware Gowther was there, it was something he could not account for so the circumstances are very different. Gowther's arrows cannot move faster than Merlin can teleport, if Galan had known gowther was there, the arrows would have never hit him.

I already mentioned stats aren't everything hence why I said king is likely superior on paper. I also feel he is superior in battle but that is debatable ofcourse.

Of course King can dodge Gowther's arrow and it's the same for Gowther as well, I think Gowther's PL increased when he hit Galan but that's not really important here. With one hit Invasion can, rewrite and read memories, control minds, makes you live a nightmare or other illusions etc, he can spam attacks with his Herrit Gowther's Doll body is also a big advantage, petrification is not instant, it takes time to affect the whole body and Ban let the spear affect him completely.

Gowther doesn't have king or ban's speed as far as we know. Even ban had trouble dodging the multiple chastefiol attacks when he and king sparred. As for petrification, it isn't instant but I gave it as an example of how King can incapacitate Gowther (assuming he couldn't be killed). Actually Ban didn't really let it hit him, he just didn't resist much and once he started getting petrified, I'm quite sure he couldn't have done anything. Gowther's best option would be to break or cut off the petrified part before it spreads too much. Anyway, the battle will obviously be tough, that much is certain.