Semifinal Reinhard van Astrea vs. Vegeta

Who wins?

  • Reinhard van Astrea

  • Vegeta


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Lambu

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Ok, couple things here. That was actually pretty informative, and I appreciate that. But there are couple things I'm going to have to ask you to clarify. And you seem quite tired of doing that. Oh well. :amuse

First. When you cite a source you need to reference where it's from. If it's a web novel just mark down the chapter. If it's a LN a volume and page number. The point being so that I, or anybody else, can look it up.

Second. The snippets of dialogue your quoting there don't actually support what your saying. I don't see anything in there that supports your statements about the nature of Od Laguna and a scope of his dragon sword attack.

Quote 1: Soul of world. Got it.
Quote 2: People go insane if they see it but it takes their magic to another level beyond what Od Laguna is cool with. Got it.
Quote 3: Od Laguna is the consciousness that rules over everything in the ReZero world. Got it.

None of this points to destroying it being the same as destroying the universe. Or even that it's exists independently of one planet? The text of the Roswaal quote you said the author confirmed specifically says "world". I don't know how big the ReZero universe is but I'm not sure how to even write a fraction small enough to express what one world would be in the scope of a universe. Just one galaxy can have like 100 billion stars in it.

Is there something that says it extends to all of reality somewhere? I understand that there is some dimensional travel going on or something from somebody since Subaru was Isekai'd and jumps timelines or travels through time. Even if destroying Od Laguna destroys all version of that world it doesn't necessarily destroy the universe. Small ripple in a big pond.



Sidenote but this made me laugh...

Roswaal: “Make sure you don't misunderstand. This possibility is present because it is her. There is no way to bring back lives that have met a conventional death. The Od Laguna would never permit such convenient magic as resurrection.”

That is an impressively ironic statement after discussing Reinhard. Poor Roswaal is in for a shock someday.:XD
What I meant to show is that Od Laguna is what sets the rules. Reinhard having access to all its powers on demand can make him "cheat" through almost anything. Wanna become untouchable? Sure. Wanna walk on clouds or water? Easy. Its having the creator on your side.

It doesn't have seas or oceans yes, but it does have islands. You can even see the gladiator islands at the bottom of the map and also floating islands on the Great Waterfall. :P

On the topic of Od Laguna, I do disagree with the Lambu's claim that it's the source of the whole universe as nothing like that has ever been said anywhere but saying destroying the Re Zero 'planet' would deprive Reinhard of his blessings is false. The Od Laguna is not a physical object or creature and doesn't have a material form.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Me too tbh. I love looking at fictional world maps, don't know why but it stimulates my imagination. :p
I have to argue against this. I know you read the novel but its actually explained.

The Re:Zero World is formed and sustained on mana, living and non living beings alike. The practice of controlling mana is called Magic. This was explained by Roswaal in Arc 2 iirc.

Souls (or Od) are also "made" of mana but a lot more complex for possessing a consciousness and memories. They are directly connected to the nexus/origin of mana through something named Gate. The greater the Gate the more mana the Od can handle and store in their physical bodies. Souls that dont possess physical bodies but materialize by using their own mana are called Spirits. Those that are too weak to do that are called Lesser Spirits.

Od Laguna means "Pool of Souls", its where all mana comes from and returns too, all while keeping the eternal cycle of materialization working eternally. Anything in the World of Re:Zero is an extension of Od Laguna's creation and this is proved when Gluttony's Authority, by removing the concept of a person's existence, results in Od Laguna morphing the entire world and the memories of all the Souls under its control (Subaru is exempt of it).
When Rem was erased by the White Whale all traces of her existence were erased with her, including her belongings in Roswaal Manor. The entire flow of events and history were changed to fit Rem not existing. This is not work of Gluttony itself, its the work of Od Laguna "filling the gaps".

Of course some of these "edits" on reality by Od Laguna are not perfect. Ram having her Od directly connected to Rem's for being twins has like feelings of "deja vu" and similar instances of conection to the idea of "not being alone" at some point of her life (remember the flashback of the burned village in Arc 4, how there were memories of "someone" being there with her when she made the deal with Roswaal).

But Im derailing, what I mean is that reality is proved to be sustained by Od Laguna, as mana is what sustains the Re:Zero Universe. Its an entity beyond timelines too (as you correctly pointed out with the Hall of Memories) so it really is the ruling "God" of that Universe. What is unknown is whether it has an actual consciousness or not. Tappei said it doesn't and only works like an eternal engine, comparing it to "the Sun", but at the same time it has a set of rules that actively forbids.

This also explains how Divine Blessings are above any form of mana manipulation, setting powers as exceptional rules. Witch Authorities are the only known thing capable of countering Od Laguna's designs.
 

Seven777

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Oh great, another Jammin...



Being able to bust concepts allows to destroy things that are conceptually impossible to be destroyed, like the sky or your stubbornness.

For example, Reid being able to slash concepts would make him capable of easily beheading Regulus, a singularity in which time doesn't exist and a slash cannot be possible. Reinhard needs the Dragon Sword to perform this feat.



The irony of this statement when defending DragonBall... :rofl
But yeah, Rein tends to spare his opponents whenever he has the chance. As for why he didnt make it, because Elsa was almost by Subaru when he started moving and he can't teleport. Thats really the explanation.
The name of the guy close to lightspeed is Cecilus.



What Im telling you: You can't understand how Reinhard would hold back in a fight in order to not kill the people nearby by accident.

But you can easily understand an attack meant to kill a SS Blue hit the ground and just make an explosion. Solar System level btw, 100% proved through scaling that they hold back their ki to not destroy the planets, even the villains do it cause they are softies in the inside.

:lambirb



Do you mean the Time chamber scene? Buu and Gotenks made a rip in that dimension to come back to their dimensions. There are spells in Re:Zero that can do just that, same with time-stop and energy nullification.

If you mean the one that Blackest posted (Buu vs Vegetto) its anime filler, and if you take it as canon you are beyond help.
-Simply asking what he's cut, concept or otherwise. It should not be this hard a question to answer.

-In other words he's slow. To the point where Subaru can raise Rom's huge club faster. Reinhard even saw Elsa before Subaru too.

-He can hold back, that's fine, he still should have stopped Elsa. Vegeta would have, no nukes required.

-Who said anything about solar system busting? I didn't. Who said anything about ki blasts being held back? I didn't. But as I recall you don't believe either of those things, do you? Because it's an inconsistency or some such. And yet.... you're completely fine with Reinhard against Elsa, and simply explain it away as him holding back despite his friend being in mortal danger.... Looks like I've stumbled upon a big old double standard :toc

-Yep, the time chamber scene. No spell, no technique, just raw power tearing through reality. Means about as much as the "reality cutting" you still havent provided an example of...
 

Asako

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One could think i was reading a mafia game thread....
We already pass 20 pages of debates smh...

This became a comedy show by now for everyone else...
How did you guys even do it
 

Elessar

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One could think i was reading a mafia game thread....
We already pass 20 pages of debates smh...

This became a comedy show by now for everyone else...
How did you guys even do it
It's a tragedy show.
 

Sachsenhesse

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You guys are just jealous of our super saiyan swagger.
 

Static

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-Simply asking what he's cut, concept or otherwise. It should not be this hard a question to answer.

-In other words he's slow. To the point where Subaru can raise Rom's huge club faster. Reinhard even saw Elsa before Subaru too.

-He can hold back, that's fine, he still should have stopped Elsa. Vegeta would have, no nukes required.

-Who said anything about solar system busting? I didn't. Who said anything about ki blasts being held back? I didn't. But as I recall you don't believe either of those things, do you? Because it's an inconsistency or some such. And yet.... you're completely fine with Reinhard against Elsa, and simply explain it away as him holding back despite his friend being in mortal danger.... Looks like I've stumbled upon a big old double standard :toc

-Yep, the time chamber scene. No spell, no technique, just raw power tearing through reality. Means about as much as the "reality cutting" you still havent provided an example of...
To be fair, I do think him not reacting to Elsa on time is probably a plot hole / inconsistency since he has been to shown to react to much, much faster attacks and people later on in the series.

As for the first point, he hasn't done anything like that yet but Reid, the first Sword Saint and Reinhard's ancestor has actual feats of being able to through the concept of an Authority and the concept of space as well, and the Dragon Sword Reid (which is named after him) possesses the same capability as far as I know. Reinhard can't normally cut through concepts but he can do so with the Dragon Sword.
 

Lambu

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-Yep, the time chamber scene. No spell, no technique, just raw power tearing through reality. Means about as much as the "reality cutting" you still havent provided an example of...
:shootme
 

Sachsenhesse

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how long will the voting go anyway?
 

Seven777

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To be fair, I do think him not reacting to Elsa on time is probably a plot hole / inconsistency since he has been to shown to react to much, much faster attacks and people later on in the series.

As for the first point, he hasn't done anything like that yet but Reid, the first Sword Saint and Reinhard's ancestor has actual feats of being able to through the concept of an Authority and the concept of space as well, and the Dragon Sword Reid (which is named after him) possesses the same capability as far as I know. Reinhard can't normally cut through concepts but he can do so with the Dragon Sword.
Certainly could be the case, but if we're gonna lowball dbz characters because ki blasts don't always bust planets, I don't see anything wrong with lowballing Reinhard by saying he's slow as fuck due to Elsa.
As for cutting concepts, sure, but what does that mean? He can cut hax or something? What has he actually done with all this concept cutting? Is it impressive? Because I'm not seeing anything impressive. Simply being able to cut a loosely defined term like "concept" doesn't equal being able to cut vegeta, or even scratch him a little, not unless we've actually seen him hurt or kill some really powerful and durable people with it. Best I've seen of Reid is killing Puck, and as good as that is, it's not in the same weightclass as even early dbz
:pjsalt :pjsalt :pjsalt
 
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