Society Religious Discussion and Q&A Thread

[SonOfDaws]

I may have went off on a tangent trying to explain the concept of god from the Sumerian documents or what Mauro Biglino discovered / translated via the Vatican original texts. Basically God or the deities more correctly were from another world, started civilization here, used genetic engineering to form man after the likeness or resemblance. The Judeaic Christian concept of god, it clearly originates from the Sumerian works.




The alien connection was formed when the old testament texts were known to be a dervitve of the Sumerian texts. Which leads to more of the ancient aliens theory more or less. Where god came from, what planet, who made god, what god is or was, why we were made, etc.

I think I've bits and pieces of something like that before. Certainly seems odd to me, but conversation would be pointlessly if nobody deviated from the norm.


I've got a second question for both of you though: Why does that conceptualizations matter?

It sounds like the "made in God's image" idea is particularly relevant there as understanding them anf their nature means gaining a better understanding ourselves.

Well my take on the definition of god, based on my own catholic upbringing of course (though I can't say I am too religious these days), would be something like " An omnipotent and omniscient being that transcends time and space who created everything". Of course, I can't actually fathom omniscience, omnipotence, or transcending anything and my ability to explain any of those would be limited to their dictionary definition. Now, if you want something extremely personal or anything like that then I won't have much of an answer because the bulk of this has stopped making sense to me over time and I don't feel particularly connected to it.

Thanks for the input.

Nah, it doesn't have to have a intensely personal conversion story with it or anything like that. If you want to go more in-depth, then that's up to you.

 

[Charlie]

I think I've bits and pieces of something like that before. Certainly seems odd to me, but conversation would be pointlessly if nobody deviated from the norm.


I've got a second question for both of you though: Why does that conceptualizations matter?

It sounds like the "made in God's image" idea is particularly relevant there as understanding them anf their nature means gaining a better understanding ourselves.



Thanks for the input.

Nah, it doesn't have to have a intensely personal conversion story with it or anything like that. If you want to go more in-depth, then that's up to you.

If I understood this question correctly.
I guess because we as "man" going from a the religious sides perspective, seem to have a need for a higher purpose.
A need to have a want, a meaning for existence. That we are not born from some randomness or accident. A belief in our speicalness or place in the grand scheme of things. In the Judaeo Christian side nothing can say that more clearly than we were made in Gods image, I suppose.

 

[Sanity Check]

Huh? I read a few pages of that book but it seems to be about how the bible is actually about aliens visiting earth.

Some claim Ezekiel 1 of the bible depicts spacecraft landings on earth:

Ezekiel 1:4

4 I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north—an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal,

5 and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was human,

6 but each of them had four faces and four wings.

7 Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze.

8 Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. All four of them had faces and wings,

9 and the wings of one touched the wings of another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved.

10 Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a human being, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle.

11 Such were their faces. They each had two wings spreading out upward, each wing touching that of the creature on either side; and each had two other wings covering its body.

12 Each one went straight ahead. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, without turning as they went.

13 The appearance of the living creatures was like burning coals of fire or like torches. Fire moved back and forth among the creatures; it was bright, and lightning flashed out of it.

14 The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning.

15 As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces.

16 This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel.

Keywords: wheels, wings and fire make it seem as if it could be describing the landing of an aircraft / spacecraft of some type.

It sounds to me like something out of an anime.

I think this is how for the most part how the being they refer to as the creator of all, by the gods in sumer text operates. Lives in some kind of ball o f light deminsion or something. Doesn't really interact with the creations after things were set in motion.

The old testament of the bible claims God's presence lived inside their holy temple for a time. They had a list of purification rites priests needed to follow as to be holy and pure enough to be in God's presence. They had a rope tied around the leg of the priest to pull him out in case he wasn't pure enough to be in God's presence and died.

Its been said that angels and God do not like to be around sin. Which is one explanation held up for why there isn't as much interaction today as in ages past.

 

[Raven]

I just woke up today with this thought, What if all religions are just a medium to channel spiritual energy towards something. People all over the history are wore shipping anything that seems significant to them and start praying to it until Abrahamic religions claimed to be the ultimate truth. Therefore i think we humans are programmed to channel our spiritual energy no matter what god we are using to that thing. Now with 4000 religions that divides people enegry. New religions like Jewdism, Christianity and Islam came to existence to channel people energy in 3 big mediums..

 

[kkck]

I just woke up today with this thought, What if all religions are just a medium to channel spiritual energy towards something. People all over the history are wore shipping anything that seems significant to them and start praying to it until Abrahamic religions claimed to be the ultimate truth. Therefore i think we humans are programmed to channel our spiritual energy no matter what god we are using to that thing. Now with 4000 religions that divides people enegry. New religions like Jewdism, Christianity and Islam came to existence to channel people energy in 3 big mediums..

Isn't that kinda the plot of clash of titans? Where people's prayers feed and empower gods?

 

[z.5]

Isn't that kinda the plot of clash of titans? Where people's prayers feed and empower gods?

Not only clash of titans - gods have to be on their toes to make sure that their worshippers don't forget them, else they might end up stripped of all their divine powers and in the body of a tortoise

 

[Sanity Check]

Therefore i think we humans are programmed to channel our spiritual energy no matter what god we are using to that thing. Now with 4000 religions that divides people enegry. New religions like Jewdism, Christianity and Islam came to existence to channel people energy in 3 big mediums..

I think religions have their own personality and vibrate at their own unique frequency.

Practitioners of religion "tune in" to these frequencies, the way they tune to internet websites, podcasts or radio stations.

With the law of attraction applying.

 

[M3J]

Not only clash of titans - gods have to be on their toes to make sure that their worshippers don't forget them, else they might end up stripped of all their divine powers and in the body of a tortoise

Is this why we have preachers to strike fear into the heart of people? "IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN JESUS YOU WILL GO TO THE HOT HELL AND BE SODOMIZED BY SATAN WHILE HE SHOWS YOU EMO SASUKE 24/7 FOR A MILLENNIA!!"

 

[Sanity Check]

Is this why we have preachers to strike fear into the heart of people? "IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN JESUS YOU WILL GO TO THE HOT HELL AND BE SODOMIZED BY SATAN WHILE HE SHOWS YOU EMO SASUKE 24/7 FOR A MILLENNIA!!"

I don't remember Jesus delivering a "follow me or go to hell" marketing shtick.

Most of what christians say and think about hell was developed later, as far as I know.

Things people say and think about hell today do not necessarily reflect the original message.

 

[M3J]

I don't remember Jesus delivering a "follow me or go to hell" marketing shtick.

Most of what christians say and think about hell was developed later, as far as I know.

Things people say and think about hell today do not necessarily reflect the original message.

I did say or imply it was the preachers who delivered that marketing schtick.

But if not for the concept of Hell, would people decades and centuries ago have been as religious as they were? If they did not fear the unknown afterlife or punishment, would they still be devout and follow the rules of their religion when convenient?

 

[Sanity Check]

I did say or imply it was the preachers who delivered that marketing schtick.

But if not for the concept of Hell, would people decades and centuries ago have been as religious as they were? If they did not fear the unknown afterlife or punishment, would they still be devout and follow the rules of their religion when convenient?

The excerpt above answers everything.

The one below (the church as well) answers everything else.

 

[M3J]

Neither answers anything. You're focused on a specific time and excerpt, while I'm looking at history as a whole based on what I've learned. And as I mentioned in the other thread, many people say that they'd rather believe in God and go to Heaven than not believe in him and go to Hell, which does show they fear punishment.

How does the "minority" have or how did it have the CHurch under its thumb when the Church ruled? At least, this was so a century or two before Einstein's time, when the Church and monarchy made science bad because they feared losing power.

 

[Raven]

One of many things about religion that bother me so much which is "Forgiveness"

like you can see someone committee many sins like theft, murder or rape and yet they can get out with it according to their religion if they had sincere repentance but what about the victims and their compensation. It's has nothing to do with god when these crimes is committed against mankind not the god.
The forgiveness should come from the person that got hurt not from the god.

The story of David is very disturbing to me and i can't accept the so called divine justice in this story at all, lol. He literally had sex with a women that ain't his despite having many wives. He realized he fucked up when the women told him that she is pregnant so David wanted to cover up his crime and asked the women to sleep with her husband when he return from battle. He ordered him to comeback and told him go to your wife and sleep with her and he refused because he didn't like the idea of him resting while his fellow soldiers die in battle. David then had another plan to make him very drunk to force him to go home but the man slept somewhere else in front of the castle door. He then ordered him to go back in battle and told his solidiers to betray him and step back when they charge and clash with the enemy, Eventually the man found himself alone and got killed. *skipping the none sense angels questioning*, David starting crying and felt guilty and god forgive him.

What David did is committing adultery, theft and murder. Yet god forgive him, And for a matter of fact, That David is supposed to be a role model to people. It's just crazy how religion make our society irresponsible because eventually you will be forgiven if only you believe in your respective religion.

I have also problem with Abraham story which is on the same level of immorality.

 

[Sanity Check]

One of many things about religion that bother me so much which is "Forgiveness"

What David did is committing adultery, theft and murder. Yet god forgive him, And for a matter of fact, That David is supposed to be a role model to people. It's just crazy how religion make our society irresponsible because eventually you will be forgiven if only you believe in your respective religion.

I have also problem with Abraham story which is on the same level of immorality.

David was a lowly shepherd who became a king.

The power, money and fame go to David's head. He embraces a satanist mentality and lifestyle(as defined by Crowley below). As many powerful, wealthy and famous do. Seducing other men's wives and killing their husbands.

Later David feels guilt and rejects the "do as thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law" path.

David isn't necessarily a role model. His story encapsulates and comments upon basic human nature, as many biblical stories do.

Abused children in society, often go on to become abusers themselves. The only way to defeat the vicious cycle may be to forgive abusers. Forgiving them helps ensure that we do not become like them.

 

[Raven]

David was a lowly shepherd who became a king.

The power, money and fame go to David's head. He embraces a satanist mentality and lifestyle(as defined by Crowley below). As many powerful, wealthy and famous do. Seducing other men's wives and killing their husbands.

Later David feels guilt and rejects the "do as thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law" path.

David isn't necessarily a role model. His story encapsulates and comments upon basic human nature, as many biblical stories do.

Abused children in society, often go on to become abusers themselves. The only way to defeat the vicious cycle may be to forgive abusers. Forgiving them helps ensure that we do not become like them.

Was it mentioned that these stories are commenting on basic human nature? Or it's just scholars explaination just Because I don't think human nature can be straightforward like this. Not all kings act like that and not all humans do the bad based from their nature.

Whether you forgive them or not, it doesn't matter when god allowed their forgiveness without taking your opinion about it. Because they simply believe in him. Like in Christianity all your sins including murder, theft, etc are being forgiven, same goes to Islam but a bit harder. Doing haj. Basically the same concept.

 

[Sanity Check]

Was it mentioned that these stories are commenting on basic human nature? Or it's just scholars explaination just Because I don't think human nature can be straightforward like this. Not all kings act like that and not all humans do the bad based from their nature.

Whether you forgive them or not, it doesn't matter when god allowed their forgiveness without taking your opinion about it. Because they simply believe in him. Like in Christianity all your sins including murder, theft, etc are being forgiven, same goes to Islam but a bit harder. Doing haj. Basically the same concept.

There are bible verses which state a person must meditate on the word of God day and night to make sense of it. Which seems to indicate there are hidden meanings and contexts lurking beneath the surface. Joan of Arc and other historical figures spent countless hours meditating on the bible etc.

I think being forgiven doesn't imply a person doesn't receive negative karma or punishment for harming others. It moreso means not holding a grudge or retaining hatred or resentment towards a person for something. David might still have received punishment of some type for what he did.

 

[shionoro]

There is a catch. God knows what is in your heart (at least believers think that).
God knows whether you honestly beg for forgiveness or not.

Obviously, the church made a thing out of it (because it is such a sweeter catch) that all is forgiven if you pray a bit and give them some money. But god knows whether you are making an honest effort or not.
That is also why it doesnt matter, looking at the discussion above, whether a victim forgives or not. The victim has no right to even judge someone. Only god has. The victim's life is from god, if god wants them to suffer, they should suffer and be happy about it, because if they do, they will be rewarded.

In monotheistic religion, any hardship can quickly become a test.

 

[Raven]

In monotheistic religion, any hardship can quickly become a test.

Or curse.

like if they see someone having hardships and it's against their believes, It's a curse from god.

If they have these hardships, It's a test.

 

[Sanity Check]

That is also why it doesnt matter, looking at the discussion above, whether a victim forgives or not. The victim has no right to even judge someone. Only god has. The victim's life is from god, if god wants them to suffer, they should suffer and be happy about it, because if they do, they will be rewarded.

In monotheistic religion, any hardship can quickly become a test.

In considering events like the holocaust, it might be said a lack of forgiveness leads to high saturation of hate which make those types of atrocities possible. If hate and a lack of forgiveness leads to events like the rwandan genocide, then perhaps the importance of forgiveness becomes more evident.

It may be accurate to say God allows people to individually decide if they suffer and to what extent. It is the choices people make individually and collectively which determine the extent of our own suffering.

Or curse.

like if they see someone having hardships and it's against their believes, It's a curse from god.

If they have these hardships, It's a test.

People tend to struggle with the same difficulties until they learn to overcome them.

The hardships aren't necessarily a test but whether someone learns positive lessons from hardships might be.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 29, 2020 ---

This is interesting. Yeh.

 

[M3J]

There is a catch. God knows what is in your heart (at least believers think that).
God knows whether you honestly beg for forgiveness or not.

Obviously, the church made a thing out of it (because it is such a sweeter catch) that all is forgiven if you pray a bit and give them some money. But god knows whether you are making an honest effort or not.
That is also why it doesnt matter, looking at the discussion above, whether a victim forgives or not. The victim has no right to even judge someone. Only god has. The victim's life is from god, if god wants them to suffer, they should suffer and be happy about it, because if they do, they will be rewarded.

In monotheistic religion, any hardship can quickly become a test.

are you sure? Many believers think that as long as they pray or go to a church every week, they have a chance of going to Heaven no matter how horrible they are. I highly doubt believers think that God knows what's in anyone's heart.

ANd honestly, it seems like God is too egotistical to even care if someone's praying to him or not out of genuine belief or desire, he seems to rather want to prove to Satan that people will prostrate themselves to him no matter what, feeding his ego. It's quite cruel to make someone suffer horribly just to test them, and if they pass then they'll be rewarded. Makes God a psychopath.