Discussion Sasuke's crusade: Justified or Not

ashher · Dec 16, 2009

special thanks goes to jdw

Let me allow to copy-paste a post of mine from hangout:

jdw said:
ashher said:

i don't think that if it turns out like that danzo killed them for treason would make it any less righteous for sasuke to avange his clan.his clan was turned into a dominion of konoha and to sasuke it would be like uchihas fought for their deserved freedom and place.

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Let us assume that treason is a crime in Konoha, just for the sake of argument. The Uchiha clan, as a founding entity, may have played a role in the direction of the village. If we make an analogy, it would be like family of a criminal taking revenge against the people who gave justice for the comissions of the crime, if it was justice. It cannot be justice to hand out punichment for crimes, and then justice for the loved ones of those who were punished to punish those who handed out justice. More simply, in an imperfect example:

* Man is robbed, he reports crime, thief arrested & jailed.
* Loved ones of the thief want to kill robbery victim & police for taking away their loved one.

It would make much more sense in terms of Sasuke's revenge if the Uchiha clan was not in fact rebelling.

the reasons i think it would be justified for sasuke to continue his hunt against konoha even if it turns out that uchihas were punished for treason:

1.the village konoha was established on the basis of equality among all the clans,that naturally means anyone worthy from any clan can become hokage or serve in any position.but the uchihas were from the time of 2nd hokage (according to madara) pushed into the special police force so that they can be kept under watch.that is what makes them a second class citizen actually.this is unjust and totally opposed to the agreement between uchiha and senju.So one would be quite right and justified to think that senjus and their followers(konoha nins) used the treaty and the village as a way to push uchiha down in shrewd underhanded way.this unfair treatment that uchiha got reached the lowest limit after kyuubi fight,when they were put in a secluded corner of the village.basically they became like a colony of konoha.

2.so the 'treason' was more than treason.in our world many countries of present were colonies of powers like england,france and many times rebellions occurred in those parts.And many times rebels failed and were executed and their act was called treason by the colonizing government.Now can we actually call those freedom figters mere criminals for wanting to establish their proper rights?this is the same with uchiha incidence.

3.in case someone wants to counter the above point saying that uchihas were not fighting for creating another country/homeland,rather was trying to usurp the power of the present system and state,then i would like to say that very often in history fight for independence has actually begun from attempts at correcting the present system.for example,my country Bangladesh was colony of pakistan under the name of east pakistan.actually when pakistan was established it was popular among ppl of this part and we called it our homeland (like the first uchihas who voted for konoha and thought konoha to be their home).However soon ppl of these parts were discriminated against (like uchihas were),and then attempts began to take place from here to correct the situation in pakistan,and when as the attempts kept failing,ppl here started to feel that pakistan is no longer their home and finally a a new nationalism grew which resulted into a new home/country.the uchiha rebellion was still prolly at the stage of 'correcting the present state' ie. konoha through a coup.

4.However after the incidence,the remaining uchiha,sasuke is now at the last stage.he can't in any way call konoha,the entity responsible for double-crossing,colonizing and finally eradicating Uhiha his home/or the home of the future uchiha that he wants to revive.

So imo,we can hardly compare Sasuke to revenge wanting sibling of a mere criminal.he is actually the second generation of an oppressed nation (clan in naruto).Just because the first generation was thwarted by the colonizing power and was labeled as traitors and criminals for treason,doesn't make them mere criminals and justify their execution even if that is the punishment for treason from the point of justice (you know law and justice can often be contradictory,for example jutice was served when US was freed from England,but surely that was great crime according to the law of the then England).

so in a nutshell,danzo's actions and uchiha execution might be justified according to konoha law,but that will never be justified from uchiha point of view,and from a neutral point of view(ie the reader's view) the latter should be felt as the right one as we can see that uchihas indeed were decieved and turned into second class citizens by konoha.

Edit: i am adding a later post of mine here for the sake of clarity:

lets try and clear this once and for all
there have been 3 questions of importance when we think about "justification" of sasuke's revenge:

1.was it understandable when he chose to avenge his clan,or would it have been more realistic if he had decided to follow itachi?(taking things that happened in manga upto the decision made by sasuke)

2.if wanting revenge was thus justified,then who should have been the target?only danzo and the culprits behind it?or the whole konoha?
once again i must ask u take into consideration of such ideals as nationalism and dealings between 2 nations,instead of being just bookishly self-righteous and uptight and take into consideration what usually happens in reality in this type of cases.
so here u must also consider whether its a mere personal revenge or a war between 2 nations uchiha and konoha?

3.i never expected this to be a question when i opened this thread,but it seems to become the most talked about topic:how should sasuke deal with the non-konoha persons?and what about civilians and those who surrender?
the reason i felt this question is of no value because in war there is no value,morality.i mean if u decide on the previous question that it indeed is more than a personal revenge and actually the last act of uchiha vs senju/konoha ancient war,then it is unrealistic and naive to expect that sauske will have special consideration for these ppl,particularly when his own clan/nation didn't receive an ounce of such morality.

SketchyPhoenix · Dec 16, 2009