Second Round: Battle Royale 3

[Kazu-Sama]

I understand all this "non-feats" stuff and people assuming it will just end up Roger vs Shanks based on reputations, but to be honest, voting for someone just because they haven't visually displayed their feats, though we have solid grounds for a basis of their strength and abilities, would be wrong. In this group, I can't put it any other way in my mind: Roger and Mihawk. With Vista a close third and then Shiki. Mattiaildivino's logic here would be wrong, voting for Shiki "as he was an emperor almost at Roger's level"... because based on what we have seen, and as people have said, Shiki was beaten by pre-timeskip Luffy. Facts vs reputation here show us that Shiki was not faster than a flying duck/bird/electric eel hybrid. He couldn't dodge or deflect Luffy's Thor. He didn't stand up after getting hit. Even Zoro managed to get up after Enel's attack and I think that would have been on the same level of current (it's current that kills you once you go above a certain voltage. You could have 10,000V and like... (cant give a value) but minimum current and feel nothing). So Shiki was shown to be beatable imo by Mihawk and Vista.

Now, if it was Roger vs Akainu, I would vote Akainu. I haven't seen anything from Roger or heard of, that would let me think he could win. Magma > Strength. Haki doesn't take away the DF ability, you will still burn... Akainu got up after those epic blasts from WB... I think Strength + Haki + Earthquake is possibly stronger than Roger's fist. Roger may be strong and undefeated, but it doesn't mean he is a mass killing machine. He just doesn't go down so easy

I believe that this Royale group was just unfortunate to be very straight up when comparing abilities. We've seen enough from the rest of the group to conclude our own opinions. This isn't a matter of reputation.

I fail to see how this isn't a matter of reputation. The fact that people like Rogers, Shanks (+ crew) and even Big Mom were even in this to me seems wrong. How can we compare what we can't see? Reputation and force alone don't necessarily account for wins - Luffy was definitely weaker than Enel in the Skypeia arc, and even in this tournament Killer had a much better reputation than Buggy, however the fact of one piece is that the stronger pirate doesn't always win. Now, I'm not saying Roger would lose this fight - he WAS the pirate king, after all - but voting Roger/Shanks mindlessly seems pointless. I enjoy debating strengths and weaknesses, being able to analyse how two abilities would match up, and Rogers/Shanks are basically an automatic win button. It just ruins the whole point of this tournament. Ask anyone who watches/reads One Piece who they think the strongest pirate ever was, and odds are they'll say either Whitebeard, Shanks or Rogers. We already know that - why have a tournament to show what we already know?

Now, back to the fight - I think Luffy was fortunate against Shiki - during the first encounter he effortlessly defeated Luffy, Zoro, Usopp, Sanji and Chopper, at the same time. Following that, he beat Luffy again, using water this time. Now, were it not for Billy the baby Zapdos electric bird, the trick by Usopp and Nami to draw Shiki into a storm cloud, AND the fact Shiki, upon seeing Luffy place his foot into a storm cloud was anticipating Luffy being electrocuted as opposed to using it to power a kick, Luffy would have lost again. The mere fact that Zoro survived Enel's attack shows us that Enel wasn't being 100% serious, as he definitely expected to be able to kill Luffy with electricity, and may I point out that the kick that beat Shiki was a lightning-imbued axe with enough power to destroy an entire floating island! Remember that lightning Enel used to strike down Zoro? When he grasped the swords and ran a current through them? Yeah, that didn't even leave a scratch on the floating island they were on. Saying 'Shiki must be weak because he was beaten by Luffy's kick when Enel didn't kill Zoro' is like saying 'Shanks must be weak because he lost his arm to a sea-king and even pre-SH Franky managed to beat one of those!' While the incidents mentioned are technically true, there was a lot more going on than the gross over-simplification that you've used. Shiki is - at the very least - similar to Crocodile in terms of strength - both beat Luffy twice, easily, before underestimating the SHs and losing. Now, the only reason I think Mihawk is stronger than Shiki is that Shiki's main weapons - swords and very very large things - are both the areas where Mihawk excels. Just the Don Kreig arc alone showed that - an entire battle fleet was taken out in one swing, and Zoro - who even then was a famous swordsman - was taken out with immense ease by Mihawk, who wasn't even trying AND using a dagger he normally uses for cutting up his food. Both are incredibly strong - in my opinion stronger than most characters we've seen in one piece short of the Yonkou, Rayleigh, and possibly some of the admirals - and as strong as Vista is the mere fact alone that Mihawk has the title of 'strongest swordsman' shows who'd be the victor in their battle... As for Pekoms, he's strong, has Haki, and good defences. He is one of the top of a Yonkou's crew, but at this level of the tournament that doesn't mean a great deal...

 

[DEATHBOTT]

are people forgetting shiki beat the whole straw hat crew except nami without trying? luffy beating him at the end was for the plot. and without biri luffy would have lost and probably the reason shiki didnt get up after the last attack was because he was kicked into the ocean if they were above land i think he would have not been fine but not ko'ed either. not to mention he fought garp and sengoku at the same time and battled against roger. he is defiantly above vista and pekoms. i would put him in the same catergory as mihawk but i would vote mihawk over him still.

 

[blueframe]

Roger winning the group is a no brainer for me. As for the second place, I'd give it to Mihawk after a really tough battle with Shiki.

 

[scott1uk]

Thanks Kazu,

Your post does put it into a bit more perspective. I guess I am an example of using facts to portray a distorted truth, though in the end our opinions are similar; in terms of ordering of this group, even if our reasons aren't! Having read your post though, I could say I see things differently now. Shiki beating all of the strawhats together was circumstantial as well; him having the advantage of "pre-touching" the surroundings and the SH's of not knowing what they are dealing with. Shiki did state that he was surprised that they could fight at "his" level, which is saying something. It's not like the SH's together were at Kuma's level... It wasn't the same type of annihilation. I think a gear 2 luffy would have a much better shot at Shiki with the increased speed and power.

A lot of the fights throughout the manga have been circumstantial, but we try to see through that when assessing these fights. I still don't believe that Shiki is as strong as his reputation assumes. He didn't necessarily battle Garp and Sengoku, it could have been fending off their attacks and evading. Something Luffy has also done when caught up on sea or at the war. It's hard to deal damage with their attack types and Shiki moving everything around him is a real pain. The stack of fodder marines that he was seen upon is no less comparable to pre-ts Luffy as well.

Either way, I try to be fair from what I see and take into consideration all attacks from all sides and play it out in my head. I just don't see anyone in this group hurting Roger and then I see Mihawk coming out on top vs the rest. But it will be tight in this royale, as everyone can hold up quite well in general.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

He didn't necessarily battle Garp and Sengoku, it could have been fending off their attacks and evading.

Is that what u call fending off? ^^

 

[Donkquixote]

I don't see anything about it in the rules, but I can't vote for Roger to win, because he's dead.
From the Rules:

Because the plot is moving forward and certain characters are being developed, they can only be considered as they have been "shown" (pic or text) capable of in the manga, except for the few characters that have been given a limit.

In my opinion, this can be interpreted as Roger fighting is his current state, i.e. a corpse.

Shiki is not confirmed dead, but he did fall in the water, so I don't want to vote him in either.

Plus, as stated by many above, lack of feats makes for a boring debate.

This leaves Mihawk, Pekoms, and Vista. Both Mihawk and Vista are shown to be high level Haki users and excellent swordsmen. I think they take it Pekoms no problem.

 

[Cyrs]

I don't see anything about it in the rules, but I can't vote for Roger to win, because he's dead.
From the Rules:


In my opinion, this can be interpreted as Roger fighting is his current state, i.e. a corpse.

Shiki is not confirmed dead, but he did fall in the water, so I don't want to vote him in either.

Plus, as stated by many above, lack of feats makes for a boring debate.

This leaves Mihawk, Pekoms, and Vista. Both Mihawk and Vista are shown to be high level Haki users and excellent swordsmen. I think they take it Pekoms no problem.

This is actually a very valid point.

So I think from now on, I'm just going to vote for characters who are alive, haha.

 

[Akainu]

That is actually not the way this rule is intended to work. The last state we saw Roger in is the moment of his execution, sick but still alive iirc.
Even though I would support a Mihawk/Vista movement, just because ;D

 

[darkprince0521]

That is actually not the way this rule is intended to work. The last state we saw Roger in is the moment of his execution, sick but still alive iirc.
Even though I would support a Mihawk/Vista movement, just because ;D

so we should rule out Whitebeard then? because the last state we saw him, he was dead. if that's how the rule applies, i don't want to waste my vote next time. an answer will be much appreciated.

 

[Akainu]

As I just wrote, no. dead is not a state. If at all you could say he's heavily wounded, but that's his state at the end of when we last saw him. WB was old and sick as well I believe, at least he was always on some kind of doflas "medication".

In the end it's up to you whom to vote for anyway. If you see your vote as "wasted" because it goes to the loser, we might run into problems ^^;

 

[darkprince0521]

As I just wrote, no. dead is not a state. If at all you could say he's heavily wounded, but that's his state at the end of when we last saw him. WB was old and sick as well I believe, at least he was always on some kind of doflas "medication".

In the end it's up to you whom to vote for anyway. If you see your vote as "wasted" because it goes to the loser, we might run into problems ^^;

no. when i say wasted; i don't mean that. what i mean is; if the rule means that we should count the dead characters at the ability of a corpse; then voting for a dead character is a wastage.

and you made it even more confusing. so we should count the injuries sustained by the characters at the last shown time?

 

[Akainu]

If you want to *shrugs*

As I said, the rule wasn't made for the few dead people that are still in there. Just assume they are alive. It's not their selves from twenty years ago in their prime though - except if that's where they were last seen :x

 

[darkprince0521]

If you want to *shrugs*

As I said, the rule wasn't made for the few dead people that are still in there. Just assume they are alive. It's not their selves from twenty years ago in their prime though - except if that's where they were last seen :x

i was hoping for an answer like this.