Character Shigaraki Discussion Thread

[KingAzureRequiem]

For a character people insist isn't interesting I can't think of another current villain in shounen manga that has made this level of discussion.


This is irrelevant to the discussion, he pretty much said something that was blatantly untrue and got called out for it also the exact same argument can be used in reverse so its a pointless gesture to assume everything popular isn't also well-received. Worthless post.


And this doesn't even make sense. If I can outline a character and how much they grew through the story or how much will know about the character then that is by definition character development whether if you disagrees that's your problem.



You literally did not explain what makes either character interesting having charisma isn't the same as being interesting or well-written. I mean I understand Shigaraki completely so I guess he's well-written. I mean the fact that he's a generic villain who just wants to destroy the world just proves you pretty much speedread through the manga or didn't pay attention.

Shigaraki isn't that interesting at all and a lot of the discussion about that is people trying to defend him. Whatever character development he gets doesn't matter because he still has the same generic goals of destroying everything for real reason. Who cares if shigaraki is Deku final opponent because their conflict is so shallow any other villain could take his place and it wouldn't matter to Deku.

 

[Sir Isley]

He's a boring version of FFVI's Kefka. Has zero charisma, incompetent as all hell, decent characters were wasted in favor of him.

 

[HereNThere]

I find him more interesting than Deku.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Shigaraki isn't that interesting at all

In your opinion

and a lot of the discussion about that is people trying to defend him.

Nope most of the discussion are people like you trying to discredit him anyway you can. If Shiggy wasn't interesting why is it talked about more than Muzan, Peter, Orochi, Geto, etc. Your tripping over your own logic. If Shiggy wasn't interesting there would be no actual discourse to him and people like you would have written him off as yet another generic villain. Hell literally any time there's a debate in regards to Shigaraki you always end up on the losing end because you're hellbent on your stance to the point you have to lie constantly/

Whatever character development he gets doesn't matter because he still has the same generic goals of destroying everything for real reason. Who cares if shigaraki is Deku final opponent because their conflict is so shallow any other villain could take his place and it wouldn't matter to Deku.

And when you say stupid shit like this it just showed me you didn't actually read it.

 

[KingAzureRequiem]

In your opinion


Nope most of the discussion are people like you trying to discredit him anyway you can. If Shiggy wasn't interesting why is it talked about more than Muzan, Peter, Orochi, Geto, etc. Your tripping over your own logic. If Shiggy wasn't interesting there would be no actual discourse to him and people like you would have written him off as yet another generic villain. Hell literally any time there's a debate in regards to Shigaraki you always end up on the losing end because you're hellbent on your stance to the point you have to lie constantly/


And when you say stupid shit like this it just showed me you didn't actually read it.

Look at it like this. Why are people so instant on certain characters being the traitor? Because it creates personal stakes and could set a plot line about the conflict with a hopeful decent resolution. But the thing about shigaraki conflict with Deku is that is bland and Deku hardly has personal stakes against shigaraki or at the very least more than anyone else. Since shigarki goal is to destroy everything everyone wants a piece of him and the only thing connecting the two is the fact that they have their masters quirks.

What reason does Deku have to treat shigaraki as anything less than the simple minded monster that needs to be taken down? Since shigaraki acts like a simple minded monster the only way shigaraki can develop Deku's character is to have kill someone important to him but that only won't make the dynamic interesting.

 

[nectar]

Do I find Shigaraki interesting? Yes. Is he an overly complex character. Not really.

Thankfully, Horikoshi has built up Shigaraki in terms of power and personality (maybe not as much as his power but he's grown) so I do care how he got to be where he is and where he's ultimately going as a character.

 

[UchihaHunter]

I suppose. There are two ways this could play out IMO:

1.- Shigaraki gets influenced by AFO to the point where he becomes interesting.

2.- Shigaraki's decay theme continues and AFO's will within him gets eroded and then basically a plot dud if you will.

so looks like we might be moving toward #2, although i disagree that that's necessarily a plot dud...horikoshi has shown that he can write interesting characters and decent plot, so i'm willing to give him time to flesh it out

also, gotta say, the last couple of chapters have a done a lot to make hands more interesting to me! the addition of new quirks makes for more interesting fights (the idea of combining the radio waves and the air cannon was well done) and the idea of him moving beyond afo, denying what afo is influencing him to do is also a nice turn.

 

[KingAzureRequiem]

so looks like we might be moving toward #2, although i disagree that that's necessarily a plot dud...horikoshi has shown that he can write interesting characters and decent plot, so i'm willing to give him time to flesh it out

also, gotta say, the last couple of chapters have a done a lot to make hands more interesting to me! the addition of new quirks makes for more interesting fights (the idea of combining the radio waves and the air cannon was well done) and the idea of him moving beyond afo, denying what afo is influencing him to do is also a nice turn.

AFO is overall the better villain so it's not a bad thing if Shigaraki gets taken and honestly to take over shigaraki. Everything shigaraki has was given to him without earning it.

 

[kkck]

so looks like we might be moving toward #2, although i disagree that that's necessarily a plot dud...horikoshi has shown that he can write interesting characters and decent plot, so i'm willing to give him time to flesh it out

also, gotta say, the last couple of chapters have a done a lot to make hands more interesting to me! the addition of new quirks makes for more interesting fights (the idea of combining the radio waves and the air cannon was well done) and the idea of him moving beyond afo, denying what afo is influencing him to do is also a nice turn.

That's basically a bet on horikoshi making shigaraki into something very different from what horikoshi has been very overt about doing with shigaraki. As in turning him into a saturday morning cartoon villain. I suppose the author could still change course and add a shred of nuance to shigaraki but that's not where I'd put my money. I mean, shigaraki is already bad enough that him getting influenced by AFO was the superior alternative to shigaraki just doing his very uninteresting thing. I think this comes down to accepting that horikoshi is not bent on doing a nuanced story with complex characters with clear goals and motivations. Deku just wanted to be a hero because he just oozes goodness. Shigaraki wants to be a villain because he was born evil (and maybe because AFO warped him). Horokoshi is doing just a saturday morning cartoon in manga form. And that is fine.

 

[NegaiFreak]

AFO is overall the better villain so it's not a bad thing if Shigaraki gets taken and honestly to take over shigaraki. Everything shigaraki has was given to him without earning it.

I highly disagree with that last statement. The Meta Liberation Army arc is a prime example of Shigaraki proving to the Doctor that he deserved that power he has now.

Now, is Shigaraki an interesting villain in my opinion? He could be. Is he right now? I don't know. I've never really looked at Shigaraki thoroughly enough to make a fair judgment call on whether or not he's interesting enough for readers.

Is he cool to me? Definitely.

 

[kkck]

I don't really agree with shigaraki not earning anything. It's not even about that.... AFO warped him, then shigaraki exploited stain's ideals and got followers who even now stick with him. With the MLA, the issue is not about shigaraki deserving anything. The issue is that the MLA army joining with the villain alliance makes exactly zero sense. They were unrelated organizations with unrelated goals. And the series simply went on to pretend they were competing somehow. The organizations having things in common is basically a fallacy where they take extremely superficial rhetorical similarities and pretend they amount to significant similarities.

 

[KingAzureRequiem]

I don't really agree with shigaraki not earning anything. It's not even about that.... AFO warped him, then shigaraki exploited stain's ideals and got followers who even now stick with him. With the MLA, the issue is not about shigaraki deserving anything. The issue is that the MLA army joining with the villain alliance makes exactly zero sense. They were unrelated organizations with unrelated goals. And the series simply went on to pretend they were competing somehow. The organizations having things in common is basically a fallacy where they take extremely superficial rhetorical similarities and pretend they amount to significant similarities.

AFO has gives him a bunch of stuff and as we see from the MLA arc he has to live like a murder hobo. Stain's influence brought in the main LOV members not his own ability to attract followers. Then he stole overhauls work by doing jack shit until the end. Gigantomachnia, the army, and even his power upgrades were all given to him without putting in much work of his own. Shigraki is a a leech of villain that takes a way the potential of half-decent villains. Villains that actually bother having a goal and motivation and despite all that he never actually grows as a character. At very least he should have just stole the goals of other villains because at the very least he would have some kind of motivation.

 

[kkck]

AFO has gives him a bunch of stuff and as we see from the MLA arc he has to live like a murder hobo. Stain's influence brought in the main LOV members not his own ability to attract followers. Then he stole overhauls work by doing jack shit until the end. Gigantomachnia, the army, and even his power upgrades were all given to him without putting in much work of his own. Shigraki is a a leech of villain that takes a way the potential of half-decent villains. Villains that actually bother having a goal and motivation and despite all that he never actually grows as a character. At very least he should have just stole the goals of other villains because at the very least he would have some kind of motivation.

Do note that my post was mostly about this not being about shigaraki earning stuff or not. Sure, shigaraki is a leech. But leeching is still doing something. He exploited stain's ideals but it was ultimately shigaraki who managed to sustain his followers. And shigaraki did steal from overhaul... but how does that take from shigaraki? That I would argue is a prime example of villainy on his part. As for shigaraki not earning his strength... I mean, he didn't exactly become powerful while sitting on his sorry ass. He probably did train on his own and was pretty capable of taking on most average heroes on his own. His powerup while fighting redestro in that sense was not exactly unearned.

But otherwise, I agree, shigaraki doesn't grow as a character. He isn't meant to grow or be interesting. He is simply meant to be a saturday morning cartoon villain. He is just meant to be evil for the sake of evil and cackle maniacally.

 

[KingAzureRequiem]

Do note that my post was mostly about this not being about shigaraki earning stuff or not. Sure, shigaraki is a leech. But leeching is still doing something. He exploited stain's ideals but it was ultimately shigaraki who managed to sustain his followers. And shigaraki did steal from overhaul... but how does that take from shigaraki? That I would argue is a prime example of villainy on his part. As for shigaraki not earning his strength... I mean, he didn't exactly become powerful while sitting on his sorry ass. He probably did train on his own and was pretty capable of taking on most average heroes on his own. His powerup while fighting redestro in that sense was not exactly unearned.

But otherwise, I agree, shigaraki doesn't grow as a character. He isn't meant to grow or be interesting. He is simply meant to be a saturday morning cartoon villain. He is just meant to be evil for the sake of evil and cackle maniacally.

I still don't think Shigraiki earned his way to becoming a respectable villain but the point still stands that all he is just a generic doomsday villain nothing more nothing less. The problem is when he fanbase acts like he is one of greatest on most developed villain in shounen manga. He not even the most interesting or well developed villain in this series. It doesn't really matter if AFO takes over his body and everyone might be better for it.

 

[Jammin]

I don't find him interesting personally. At least not in the role the story has given him.

Like his basic story of a child abused, neglected, and who blames heroes for not saving him from that. So wants to tear down a hero based society. Isn't terrible. The problem is you need to have the connections between him and other minions/villains in order to make him an effective "big bad". And I think that's where Shirigaki really fails for me. Because why would anyone fight for him or with him?

He doesn't have his own ideas or his own relationships or even his own powers. All of these things are given to him. Which is fine in like a one off villain of the week sort of deal. But for a main villain. I want a bit more than that. He's just kind of a maniac. He has no charisma or any reason for people to respect him or work with him. He's like a powerful kid throwing a tantrum.

 

[animeangryfan4]

uh no. He is nto intresting. It does nto matter if he had character development. to me he is still an extreme unforgving villian
the one thing that is great about him, that he turend from a psoiled and angy manchild, itnoa socipathich nihlist complete monster. He blames everyhting, and that is extremely selfish. He has truly become
Hatred.

 

[crystalblade13]

I don’t understand why people want him to have some grand noble goal for the world. He feels that the hero system that the entire world is based on is fundamentally flawed, as he and many others people regularly go unsaved. A lot of the hero’s think about lining their pockets and pat themselves on the back while many suffer from prejudice, mental illness derived from their quirks, and various other problems that the hero society absolutely does not address. Shigaraki has a lot of reason to hate the hero’s and reject them to the fullest extent of his abilities.

He’s gained followers who have similarly been rejected by the system, and who find solace among others like themselves, and Shigaraki has been shown to care for them and he tells them what they want to hear. He has carisma, as he’s learned it from stain, overhaul, and re destro.

Hes unforgiving, has fun/ great one liners, takes zero shit, and is a tremendous threat. And he’s changed and grew throughout the whole series, which is something you basically never see in main antagonists from shounen.

He’s a phenomenal villain, and he doesn’t need to be sympathetic for that to be a fact. Easily the best currently running jump villain

 

[Jammin]

Well I'd say the issue isn't so much his lack of a grand noble goal. He's a villain. Noble intentions aren't expected. As for the "grand" part I'd say he has that. He wants to bring down hero society.

It's his motivations that are problematic. Because at the core of his motivations is the idea that "he was failed" right? The problem there is that isn't a motivation to destroy society but rather fix it. Because the trauma that shaped him is that "heroes aren't good enough" as opposed to "heroes are bad", which the series acts like is his motivation. The only way to make that work would have been to make it a specific person that failed him who he's trying to kill. Something more personal. But it's not personal with him. It manifests as something like an ideology but, unlike with Stain, his ideology doesn't really make a lot of sense. Even by crazy character internal logic.

I think it would honestly be better if his motives were non-ideological, like money or personal power, because those at least make sense. And can serve a counterpoint to selfless heroes.

Really what Boku no Hero needs is a villain who can serve as a counterpoint to the heroic worldview. To let real selfless heroism shine. Like an anarchist who believes people should be able to use their quirks without being bound by rules. Or a megalomaniac who wants to use his power to achieve world domination. Or a villain that's pretending to be a hero for his own benefit. And Shiragaki just isn't that. He's like a kid throwing a tantrum. Now matter how powerful he becomes, to me, that's just not very interesting and I'm not really sure how you fix that.

 

[KingAzureRequiem]

Well I'd say the issue isn't so much his lack of a grand noble goal. He's a villain. Noble intentions aren't expected. As for the "grand part" I'd say he has that. He wants to bring down hero society.

It's his motivations that are problematic. Because at the core of his motivations is the idea that "he was failed" right? The problem there is that isn't a motivation to destroy society but rather fix it. Because the trauma that shaped him is that "heroes aren't good enough" as opposed to "heroes are bad", which the series acts like is his motivation. The only way to make that work would have been to make it a specific person that failed him who he's trying to kill. Something more personal. But it's not personal with him. It manifests as something like an ideology but, unlike with Stain, his ideology doesn't really make a lot of sense. Even by crazy character internal logic.

I think it would honestly be better if his motives were non-ideological, like money or personal power, because those at least make sense. And can serve a counterpoint to selfless heroes.

Really what Boku no Hero needs is a villain who can serve as a counterpoint to the heroic worldview. To let real selfless heroisom shine. Like an anarchist who believes people should be able to use their quirks without being bound by rules. Or a megelomaniac who wants to use his power to achieve world domination. Or a villain that's pretending to be a hero for his own benefit. And Shiragaki just isn't that. He's like a kid throwing a tantrum. Now matter how powerful he becomes, to me, that's just not very interesting and I'm not really sure how you fix that.

Pretty much. Shigaraki is one note arc villain that got forced in to the role as final villain. The redestro would have been better if he didn't get the shaft.

 

[Newkerzy]

Well I'd say the issue isn't so much his lack of a grand noble goal. He's a villain. Noble intentions aren't expected. As for the "grand" part I'd say he has that. He wants to bring down hero society.

It's his motivations that are problematic. Because at the core of his motivations is the idea that "he was failed" right? The problem there is that isn't a motivation to destroy society but rather fix it. Because the trauma that shaped him is that "heroes aren't good enough" as opposed to "heroes are bad", which the series acts like is his motivation. The only way to make that work would have been to make it a specific person that failed him who he's trying to kill. Something more personal. But it's not personal with him. It manifests as something like an ideology but, unlike with Stain, his ideology doesn't really make a lot of sense. Even by crazy character internal logic.

I think it would honestly be better if his motives were non-ideological, like money or personal power, because those at least make sense. And can serve a counterpoint to selfless heroes.

Really what Boku no Hero needs is a villain who can serve as a counterpoint to the heroic worldview. To let real selfless heroism shine. Like an anarchist who believes people should be able to use their quirks without being bound by rules. Or a megalomaniac who wants to use his power to achieve world domination. Or a villain that's pretending to be a hero for his own benefit. And Shiragaki just isn't that. He's like a kid throwing a tantrum. Now matter how powerful he becomes, to me, that's just not very interesting and I'm not really sure how you fix that.

Agree with all of this. This is why a lot of people in the fandom believe AFO makes a better villain for the story than Shiggy, and why many also believe he’ll succeed in hijacking Shiggy, if not now, then maybe at the endgame when Deku exhausts all of his power and energy taking him out.

I would also include Dabi as well, if (for the love of god, I hope) he really is Touya. Because Dabi’s reasons would connect to the readers more than Shiggy’s would. His hatred of heroes and the system would come from a much more personal experience, and it connects better to his villainous goals. By tearing down everything Endeavor’s worked so hard to protect, he tears down everything Endeavor is, while also setting up Shouto to be the one to stop him, not just for the sake of Japan, but also for his family. Which is, ironically, is exactly why Deku calls him MC material.

What Horikoshi seems to be trying to do is write him as the Joker, but the Joker never had someone string him along, but he fully embraced his madness not because of his past, but because he’s accepted his identity. Hopefully that makes sense.

Shiggy on the other hand, was completely molded by AFO since an early age, and like any child would do, he just obeyed and heeded AFO’s words. Even his backstory was potentially fabricated. With all the power and resources AFO had, you really wouldn’t think he had a hand in the Shimuras’ deaths? That’s why Shiggy makes a less compelling villain compared to other villains of yore.

Even though he is making strides in achieving independence from AFO, everything that he does still goes back to the man.