Chapter Shingeki no Kyojin 123 Chapter Discussion

Do you support Eren's ideal and plan?


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Farfalla

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Hey guys, let's leave the Spoiler thread for official images, script and the likes ONLY so it's easier for all of us to find them now, otherwise we have to skim through comments. We can comment about them as much as we want in the Discussion Thread. Ty!~ Farfalla-that-never-posted-in-this-thread-by-mistake-as-well
 
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AriesNoShion

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If the Treaty of Versailles Germany signed at the end of WW1 wasn't evidence enough, Germany's standing in the world after the war was pretty terrible, but for better or for worse, they broken the Treaty, increased their military power, and had the allies bowing to them. Bare in mind, the EU wasn't doing so hot, but Germany was by far one of the worst off. However, they were an extremely dominant force while devoting an significant portion of their resources to the Holocaust. However, their actual strength in the war aside, they were already leading negotiations with the nations that defeated them before fighting much at all.

Relative to the rest of their respective worlds, Eren now controls vastly more power than Germany did then. He had other options.

Another example, China, nations all around the world were taking advantage of China's resources and people. They rose in power and now they're a world power, to say the least. Now, they have a number of other nations on a leash.
I don't see, at all, what you verison of this has to do with SnK.

Again, Eren/Eldians didn't need more "power", they needed time. What other options?

China? When China has been the target of the rest of the world? I fail to understand how you can compare all these things to SnK and the situation Eldians are in.
 

SonOfDaws

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Moral greyness? There is no such thing for me. You're confusing judgement with morality. Morality is absolute however complex it may be. Our judgement changes depending on what data we have about the facts, that's the point of view. For example, yes I understand how Eldians from Marley can think Waldians are evil, but WE, knowing what is happening everywhere in this world, understand these Waldians are innocent people. That's the all story of Reiner and Gabi: learning a new point of view that changes their judgement.

Do we even know if Eren can control the Titans from the world long enough? What will happen when he will die?
The problem of Eldians is not ressources, it's time. Even without Marley surprise attack. They don't have enough time to do all the things you mention.
None of the countries you speak about had the entire world against them at some point.

And yes Germany is a big inspiration for a lot of SnK but not for the things you mentioned...
Indeed, perfect truths and perfect judgements are there, but not for anyone to grasp. However, I'm not talking to the source of absolute truth and knowledge: I'm talking to another person making a judgement call. So, the language should reflect that. For example, no, we don't know everything that's going on in SnK's world just like we don't for ours. From the limited 3rd person perspective the story is written in, it wouldn't make sense for us to have absolute truth about that world either, again, invaliding those claims you're making.

How long do you think it'll take to walk across the global and kill all life on it?... At least a couple days, no?

As for the last part, just saying something is wrong isn't really going to cut it.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I don't see, at all, what you verison of this has to do with SnK.

Again, Eren/Eldians didn't need more "power", they needed time. What other options?

China? When China has been the target of the rest of the world? I fail to understand how you can compare all these things to SnK and the situation Eldians are in.
Late 19th century, early 20th. Of course, it wasn't the entire world going for China, but again, that's unrealistic.

Edit: Actually, China was the target of a lot of imperialism for a lot longer than that, going as far back as the 18th century. Africa too, but they didn't bounce back quite as much, for a number of reasons. Actually, funnily enough, China's been digging their claws into Africa more and more, but in different sorts of ways.
 
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Athrin

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So were all the people sacrificed by Zeke - which Eren essentially allowed - really worth it? Were those not his own people? I've always thought Eren's desire of freedom only led to destruction, whether it's to himself or as a consequence of his actions, and this is par the course. Thank goodness Armin isn't dead, because that means hope isn't lost.
 

requiem46

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So were all the people sacrificed by Zeke - which Eren essentially allowed - really worth it? Were those not his own people? I've always thought Eren's desire of freedom only led to destruction, whether it's to himself or as a consequence of his actions, and this is par the course. Thank goodness Armin isn't dead, because that means hope isn't lost.
Now that Eren has the founder, he might have made Pixis and the others go back to being human. We have seen lots of colossal titans, but nothing about the standard ones for now
 

SonOfDaws

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Well, no matter which way you slice it, Eren's hurting, taking advantage of, and taking the freedom away from his own people along with the rest of the world.
 

Arjuna

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@Farfalla just remembered Armin crossed the ocean so Colossal Titans crossing the oceans is not far fetched

 

Shad

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@Farfalla just remembered Armin crossed the ocean so Colossal Titans crossing the oceans is not far fetched

I agree they can cross the ocean because we saw that in the season 2 ending, but armin actually was already on marley, he came with the other survey members.



~~~~

At this point I can't see an ending where both humans and titans can live together on this planet unless Eren makes the eldians into normal humans and somehow everybody forgets about ymir and eldians, similar to how only humans survived while all other sentient species on earth were either killed or assimilated, eldians can't be assimilated because their species 'overrides' any other. basically i don't believe 2 different species that see each other as equal can share the same space, because they both see each other as an existential threat.

I still hope Eren can find a different/believable solution.
 

Jedidiyah

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I am surprised that after Eren's previous shtick ("I am with Zeke and his eutanasia") just turned out to be a play people take this one at face value. Eren did not turn out to be bad, or at least the Eldian sterilizer, after all. Zeke's ideas about Ymir and how she functions also did not work out as announced. Now Eren is addressing "all of Ymir's subjects" to tell them that his plan is to exterminate "all life outside this island", most of them included. Why? So they can say their prayers? Violence itself is not nearly as effective as a credible threat of violence, delivered as broadly and vividly as possible. Nothing like a threat of mass extinction to shock people into changing their minds en masse. For that matter, "trampling all the Earth", literally, can't happen. Most of Isayama's inverted Earth isn't land, it is oceans, and they are deeper in many places than the Paradis walls, so even some of the land is unreachable.
 

SonOfDaws

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Eren could take a note from Zeke and start poisoning water supplies, maybe using the wall titans to infect large swathes of land and its water.

People wealthy, knowledgeable, and lucky enough to get access to clean water could stay uninfected, but the vast majority of people in any society all get there water from a hand-full of sources. Plus, in the chaos of a titanic apocolyse, who could say what's happening where? Regardless, If enough people get infected and made to forget their transformation abilities, then eventually things will work itself out from there. After all, what's a nation without its people?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Oh, yeah, Armin is most likely going to be a hero at the end of the day.
 

Arjuna

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I agree they can cross the ocean because we saw that in the season 2 ending, but armin actually was already on marley, he came with the other survey members.



~~~~

At this point I can't see an ending where both humans and titans can live together on this planet unless Eren makes the eldians into normal humans and somehow everybody forgets about ymir and eldians, similar to how only humans survived while all other sentient species on earth were either killed or assimilated, eldians can't be assimilated because their species 'overrides' any other. basically i don't believe 2 different species that see each other as equal can share the same space, because they both see each other as an existential threat.

I still hope Eren can find a different/believable solution.
Correction even though Armin arrived with rest of the Survey Corps he transformed in water





 

nyan

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I think this confirms that Eren isn't the father of Historia's baby. He decided to follow Zeke's plan after leaving Paradis which forced the SC and Historia to follow as well. Doubt he set his mind before this trip, he looked sad and probably hoped for some miracle that the UN-like meeting would go well.

His question to Mikasa also shows that he sill hasn't decided, he didn't want to believe the Ackerman bond Zeke told him about. 'is it because you owe me for saving you or because my dad took you in?' I'm rephrasing, but I can see why he was still sad after hearing her answer, didn't seem enough to make him not believe Zeke and therefore the 'I've always hated you' comment seemed necessary to him in order to break the bond. She seemed to regret not telling him more or what he really is to her.

I hope this isn't going to be a 'let's unite against a common enemy' cliche ending, Eren being the enemy. So overused and Eldians are already the world's common enemy, but the story seems to head that way. I hope either Eren stops himself from killing everyone or he actually goes with his original plan. Would hate to see him taken down by his own friends to save the world. Would rather they talk to him than killing him, tho, I believe he is going to die, regardless.

I suspected last month that Eren's body is fused to the titan, same like a mindless titan, rather than a human inside a titan's nape. Here, he is all skeleton, we don't see a nape to cut to try to kill him. If that is the case, I think his titan will evaporate and him with it after he is done with the plan. Seems weird, but that's a crazy thought I had. :P

Just a reminder that Zeke is still missing half of his back and butt, probably dying since Ymir ain't his slave anymore and hopefully won't bother to heal him. :P
 
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