Chapter Shingeki no Kyojin 139 FINALE Chapter Discussion

[Equaling Heaven]

But Eren wanted to become the demon. "He still evil" isn't a valid point anymore by the moment he chose to trample over the world.

And no. SnK end wasn't like Bleach nor FT (which isn't ended yet, btw).

 

[NoIdeaYet]

Wow. The ending was very SnK, imo. Allowing both uncertainty and hope for the future, no total victories, no total goodies, and baddies, so realistic. I mean, I saw it coming since the start of the final arc, where we get to see the destruction made by paradise island from the perspective of Marleyans, that Isayama was going to take the ''unite, talk it out and form an alliance'' road, and I was OK with it, really. And being SnK, I knew it wouldn't end without there being stakes, but I could do without Eren and Mikasa suffering this much. Eren sacrificing his freedom, his everything just to become the big bad, and Mikasa, apart from all of her comrades, living alone was depressive as sh*t. Other than the two of them, everyone from the final fight got a pretty much happy ending.

 

[lexx]

How was this weak?
Elaborate.

I mean, let me count the ways:

• Eren killed 80% of humanity with the rumbling...so no one really stopped him and saved the world. Armin et al's "we saved the world by stopping the Attack Titan" business is at least 80% bullshit.
• Eldia's still in hyper aggressive "kill them before they kill us" mode as a country - so the chain of hatred, fear, revenge etc was absolutely not broken.
• How did Ymir meeting Mikasa in the Paths alter Ymir's love for old King Fritz and her desire to continue Fritz's will (to continue giving birth to an endless Titan race/empire)? What about meeting Mikasa resulted in this change? The only character development we've seen from Mikasa is 1 - denial that her superhuman strength is genetically programmed and 2 - being really sad that she has to kill Eren. No significant changes in her other than "Whelp, my crush has become the antichrist, guess I gotta kill him".
• Eren transcends time, "Butterfly Effect" style, and can control Titans through the coordinate THROUGHOUT HISTORY, as revealed in his "I had to make Dina Fritz's Titan eat my mom instead of Bertholdt" confession. With that godlike power...he did nothing to change this weaksauce fate.

Literally the only thing Eren accomplished, at all, was putting an end to Titans and the world's fear of Eldians as man-eating monsters. Now the world fears Eldians as genocidal assholes bent on conquest via conventional means. Oh, and he saved his buddies, a worthless brat, and the other titan shifters, by letting them (letting them? really? seems he went all-out to kill them personally) defeat him and become the heroes that stopped the apocalypse...when it was 80% complete anyway.

THAT is why this was a weak end.

 

[Equaling Heaven]

80% isn't 100%.

 

[Dziumbranakas]

So if I am understanding this right eren at some point, not sure of when, used his titan powers to communicate with his friends, tell them everything, and then erased their memory. So that when the path eren took came to an end they'd remember. And if I am understanding this... it means eren also had a talk with mikasa. Which we didn't see. You'd think that would be as important, if not more, than the final bit we saw between eren and armin.

Another thing: This is nowhere near a happy ending. Eren still annihilated 80% of humanity. Potentially billions to save the 250% people in his shitty island. Eren was still the bad guy here through and through and him accomplishing his goals made the world a worst place. A corpse and disease cesspool.. While not a happy ending for the gang we should have been rooting for it humanity would have been better of if it simply buster called paradise.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2021 ---

In any case, rest in pieces Shingeki no Kyojin, you won't be missed. I hope that from whichever pit in hell you end up you look up and have a clear view of FT's ending.

Pretry much, the bitter sweet ending of AoT, just like AoT was.

Not only did Eren had the talk with Mikasa, but he "lived" with her in one of those dreams, as with his Founder and probably Attack titan combined powers(would explain why the Paradis creator Fritz couldn't make the perfect society, as he clearly hated the wars being waged) , could pretty much "run every simulation" simultaneously, as he was both omnipresent and could influence the past and go back and forth between it, well presumably.
But when he "rewinds" time, it becomes a "dream", from the human perspective nothing more than just an illusion.
This explains why he didn't know what to really do, killing billions numerious times, to find the "best scenario" and why he became so distant from everybody and dead from inside, and only when he was in the "dream" he acted almost as if he was just a child (talk with Armin in the paths).
Also would explain the chapter incostistancies when Zeke screamed.

The only truly bad part of the whole ending, or you can say actually a good one, is that we're left with interpretation of what happened.
Knowing Isayama, he must of given all the puzzle pieces we need, one only has to put them together.

 

[kkck]

Pretry much, the bitter sweet ending of AoT, just like AoT was.

Not only did Eren had the talk with Mikasa, but he "lived" with her in one of those dreams, as with his Founder and probably Attack titan combined powers(would explain why the Paradis creator Fritz couldn't make the perfect society, as he clearly hated the wars being waged) , could pretty much "run every simulation" simultaneously, as he was both omnipresent and could influence the past and go back and forth between it, well presumably.
But when he "rewinds" time, it becomes a "dream", from the human perspective nothing more than just an illusion.
This explains why he didn't know what to really do, killing billions numerious times, to find the "best scenario" and why he became so distant from everybody and dead from inside, and only when he was in the "dream" he acted almost as if he was just a child (talk with Armin in the paths).
Also would explain the chapter incostistancies when Zeke screamed.

The only truly bad part of the whole ending, or you can say actually a good one, is that we're left with interpretation of what happened.
Knowing Isayama, he must of given all the puzzle pieces we need, one only has to put them together.

Ah, right, there was that bit the last chapter. But... it wasn't like what we got this chapter with armin. It could be as you say a different path or simulation. But it wasn't something like what we got with eren and armin where there was some manner of closure between them. We just saw eren and mikasa living some fanfic and.... that's it.

I am not sure of to what extent the past could be changed. If it could be changed that much you'd think the natural conclusion to the titans would be to self destroy as early as the ymir days. It does seem like there is a limit on the extent to which the past and future can be changed.

That's sort of the thing, I don't really consider this to be a bittersweet ending. A theme in this manga earlier on was about self sacrifice for marginal gains. Which I can imagine some people would see in this but to me it looks more like eren just went and sacrificed 80% of humanity to help his own. This is just a sad ending, period.

 

[Dziumbranakas]

I mean, let me count the ways:

• Eren killed 80% of humanity with the rumbling...so no one really stopped him and saved the world. Armin et al's "we saved the world by stopping the Attack Titan" business is at least 80% bullshit.
• Eldia's still in hyper aggressive "kill them before they kill us" mode as a country - so the chain of hatred, fear, revenge etc was absolutely not broken.
• How did Ymir meeting Mikasa in the Paths alter Ymir's love for old King Fritz and her desire to continue Fritz's will (to continue giving birth to an endless Titan race/empire)? What about meeting Mikasa resulted in this change? The only character development we've seen from Mikasa is 1 - denial that her superhuman strength is genetically programmed and 2 - being really sad that she has to kill Eren. No significant changes in her other than "Whelp, my crush has become the antichrist, guess I gotta kill him".
• Eren transcends time, "Butterfly Effect" style, and can control Titans through the coordinate THROUGHOUT HISTORY, as revealed in his "I had to make Dina Fritz's Titan eat my mom instead of Bertholdt" confession. With that godlike power...he did nothing to change this weaksauce fate.

Literally the only thing Eren accomplished, at all, was putting an end to Titans and the world's fear of Eldians as man-eating monsters. Now the world fears Eldians as genocidal assholes bent on conquest via conventional means. Oh, and he saved his buddies, a worthless brat, and the other titan shifters, by letting them (letting them? really? seems he went all-out to kill them personally) defeat him and become the heroes that stopped the apocalypse...when it was 80% complete anyway.

THAT is why this was a weak end.

1. Well yes, but actually no.
If it weren't for the "shifters", genocide would have went from the 80% to the 110%.
They did what they could and managed to stop it, it is a win, regardless of the numbers slain.
Regardless of what was said by Eren in the Paths to them, that does not influence what the world will think of them.
They saved the world from the absolute, certain genocide, it is a win for the survivors regardless of the gargantuan piles of guts smashed to the soil.
2. Eren, above all else, values freedom. True, absolute freedom.
Also, he couldn't have erased or altered the memories of the Paradis residents, as the same scenario (world hating Paradis) would have continued.
Also, Paradis is building their army in order to defend, not to conquer.
Eren leveled the playing grounds, if one can say so.

"Chain of hatred" shall exist as long as humans are alive.
Don't forget, AoT is built upon complexities of human emotion, not idealism, this is not a fairy tale.

3. Ymir didn't meet Mikasa in the Paths, she saw the answer to her pain and conondrum through her actions.
Her love and devotion was IRRATIONAL, but having gained the godhood as a child, whan can you expect from someone like that..?
Also, time does not exist in the Paths, and most likely, you need to have both the Founder and Attack titan powers to "influence the past" and "run simulations", which is why she didn't get her "answer" up until Eren.

As for the "answer", one can only speculate.
Doing what must be done regardless of your own selfish (which love, in some way, is) desire, moving on or something else.
From what I understand, Mikasa gave the so much needed rest for Eren, because he was dead inside from the moment he kissed Historia's hand.

4. As mentioned above, Eren doesn't want to mendle with free will, or so it seems and would fit his character.
Also, he can only influence Eldians, and even then it is a question to how much he can do so. I doubt he would mendle with anything past the Owl (would risk of changing too much, maybe even his friends and etc. not being born). That is important because the hate towards Paradis already exists, so he can't do much either way, the only thing he can do is "ending it one way shape or form", to which even he doesn't know the answer.


Eren is a human, shackled by his omnipresent God-like powers. He is flawed, just like all humans are. It's too much for one to bear...
I mean there are people who can't wait to die as they lived for too long, and having the space where all IS, where you have literally, from your perspective, eternity...?
Who knows how much he spent there.
Years? Decades? Eons..?

After all, he is a HUMAN. Not a God.

 

[Farfalla]

How did Ymir meeting Mikasa in the Paths alter Ymir's love for old King Fritz and her desire to continue Fritz's will (to continue giving birth to an endless Titan race/empire)? What about meeting Mikasa resulted in this change? The only character development we've seen from Mikasa is 1 - denial that her superhuman strength is genetically programmed and 2 - being really sad that she has to kill Eren. No significant changes in her other than "Whelp, my crush has

Imo it was precisely the "welp gotta kill my piece of shit crush" the reality check and example Ymir needed to witness - since she was also in love for a genocidal piece of shit and couldn't find it in herself to let go of it.

 

[Equaling Heaven]

Guys, barricades lyrics makes even more sense now. I'm sad.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2021 ---

The difference between King Fritz and Eren is that one was always a pig. The other became a monster to save a woman in love with a tyrant and her people.

 

[Purity of Magi]

*Meanwhile somewhere in Japan Isayama is a millionaire, eating a sandwich, playing some videogames and going to enjoy his spa time soon. GG ez*

 

[Farfalla]

but to me it looks more like eren just went and sacrificed 80% of humanity to help his own. This is just a sad ending, period.

I disagree, with the titans around, humanity as a whole would always live in fear and was bound to have some dominant ones abusing the power to oppress others. That was the repeating history and, as the Owl said, it was gonna stay the same. That's not a supernatural loop, it's humans being dumbasses with any kind of power in hand. That same Paradis that "massacred 80% of humanity" (let's put it this way, tho it was the act of a single person) ended the series building military forces, yes, but also traveling around to work on negotiations. Now the world can't fear another rumble or titan nukes, they'll have to administrate conflict on a more equal level.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2021 ---

Guys,

Gotta check that one xD

 

[Dziumbranakas]

Ah, right, there was that bit the last chapter. But... it wasn't like what we got this chapter with armin. It could be as you say a different path or simulation. But it wasn't something like what we got with eren and armin where there was some manner of closure between them. We just saw eren and mikasa living some fanfic and.... that's it.

I am not sure of to what extent the past could be changed. If it could be changed that much you'd think the natural conclusion to the titans would be to self destroy as early as the ymir days. It does seem like there is a limit on the extent to which the past and future can be changed.

That's sort of the thing, I don't really consider this to be a bittersweet ending. A theme in this manga earlier on was about self sacrifice for marginal gains. Which I can imagine some people would see in this but to me it looks more like eren just went and sacrificed 80% of humanity to help his own. This is just a sad ending, period.

It is a "bitter sweet" to the protagonists, and well kinda the world.

No more Titan powers, I mean as insanely powerful as it is, in the wrong hands, one is pretty much a God, a hive mind organism.
To be frank, having killed 80% of the population, for the potential use of the Titan powers, is a rather small price to pay tbh.
Well it is from my point if view, regarding the price for the dissapearance of the Titan powers.

If Eren could mendle with the past that far away, neither he, his friends, his family would have been born, so he couldn't really do much.

As for the "simulation", I mean look, how long did Zeke ans Eren wandered, how long did he talk with Armin and etc...?
Thats just a theory, but I'd say from what we've seen, it is not far fetched to think so.

 

[Equaling Heaven]

Had any person other than Eren got their hands on the founder, the 80% would become 100% in no time.

 

[POW]

Can't believe the journey is over but here we are at last the end. I have to say the ending is about as positive as an ending as one can expect from a a story this gritty.

This will be remembered as one of the best mangas of all time. Now if only Berserk would hurry up so we could see it's ending as well.

 

[uberfayt]

I don't like that the poll doesn't have a simple "I like it" option...

 

[meeedoooz]

First reply since Naruto ended. SNK is an awesome manga and one of my all time favorites. But this chapter is very rushed and leaves so many unanswered questions. Overall it leaves a bad taste and ruins the experience.

 

[XXGenesis]

So there’s thing that I love about this chapter.
-The convo between Eren & Armin via Bird
-Levi’s reconciliation with the dead Survey Corps

Things that I don’t like of course, but most of all I’m grateful. SNK was a fun ride.

I believe FMA is as close I’ve seen to a perfect ending and I’m wondering how did the author manage to end it almost so perfectly.....Its all on what themes and conflicts the author is trying to wrap up. SnK I think did a good job at addressing it’s themes and conflicts but didn’t do a good job at wrapping it up.

Mostly because I believe the major conflict of SnK is humanity vs humanity. The author leaves us with no real answers to the troubles and problems that humanity creates for itself. But did a great job at underlining them throughout the series....War, Ethnicity, Nationalism, etc

I love SnK, this final chapter and it’s ending in its entirety, I do think is missing something, that may be owed.

 

[grey matter]

I mean, let me count the ways:

• Eren killed 80% of humanity with the rumbling...so no one really stopped him and saved the world. Armin et al's "we saved the world by stopping the Attack Titan" business is at least 80% bullshit.
• Eldia's still in hyper aggressive "kill them before they kill us" mode as a country - so the chain of hatred, fear, revenge etc was absolutely not broken.
• How did Ymir meeting Mikasa in the Paths alter Ymir's love for old King Fritz and her desire to continue Fritz's will (to continue giving birth to an endless Titan race/empire)? What about meeting Mikasa resulted in this change? The only character development we've seen from Mikasa is 1 - denial that her superhuman strength is genetically programmed and 2 - being really sad that she has to kill Eren. No significant changes in her other than "Whelp, my crush has become the antichrist, guess I gotta kill him".
• Eren transcends time, "Butterfly Effect" style, and can control Titans through the coordinate THROUGHOUT HISTORY, as revealed in his "I had to make Dina Fritz's Titan eat my mom instead of Bertholdt" confession. With that godlike power...he did nothing to change this weaksauce fate.

Literally the only thing Eren accomplished, at all, was putting an end to Titans and the world's fear of Eldians as man-eating monsters. Now the world fears Eldians as genocidal assholes bent on conquest via conventional means. Oh, and he saved his buddies, a worthless brat, and the other titan shifters, by letting them (letting them? really? seems he went all-out to kill them personally) defeat him and become the heroes that stopped the apocalypse...when it was 80% complete anyway.

THAT is why this was a weak end.

I agree with you on Miakasa/Ymir dynamics, and think this entire time travel fiasco was a disaster. But to address first two points, and your conclusion.

1. Without the "alliance", it would've been 99%, not 80%. So no, not bullshit

2. Because that wouldn't be realistic? The UN of their world pretty much declared war on Paradis, with the intent to genocide everyone there. It was mentioned that the rest of the world treated Eldians worse than Marleyans did. You think it's realistic that the rest of the world would stay idle, after rumbling at this point? Yes, Eren destroyed all the military technology, but it's only a matter of time before they would build up their military again,

You think Paradis should just sit there and wait for their demise? Or do they, like everyone else, have instincts of self preservation and can act in accordance with that?
Paradis isn't building up their army to invade anyone for thee purpose of conquest. They build it up for self preservation.

3. I agree Eren's goal was insufficient, he shouldn't have allowed the 'alliance' to do as they please, and eliminated them himself to complete the rumble. That is really the only way to secure the future generations of Paradis, in the setting Isayama gave us. Lelouch 2.0 was an utter disaster, I agree.
Eldians aren't looking for conquest, their army is for mere self preservation, if other countries think that way and attack Paradis anyway, Paradis has the natural right to act in their self preservation and destroy them.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 9, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 9, 2021 ---

Had any person other than Eren got their hands on the founder, the 80% would become 100% in no time.

Not everyone, there are defects who like alliance traitors (indirectly), Karl Fritz, Tyburs and Zeke who would use the founding powers against their own people lmao. But yea, vast majority would've taken it to pretty close to 100%.

Imagine Flosh having the founding titan lmao

 

[Ratedhook522]

Wow. The ending was very SnK, imo. Allowing both uncertainty and hope for the future, no total victories, no total goodies, and baddies, so realistic. I mean, I saw it coming since the start of the final arc, where we get to see the destruction made by paradise island from the perspective of Marleyans, that Isayama was going to take the ''unite, talk it out and form an alliance'' road, and I was OK with it, really. And being SnK, I knew it wouldn't end without there being stakes, but I could do without Eren and Mikasa suffering this much. Eren sacrificing his freedom, his everything just to become the big bad, and Mikasa, apart from all of her comrades, living alone was depressive as sh*t. Other than the two of them, everyone from the final fight got a pretty much happy ending.

For real Mikasa at least deserved a better ending than that shitty one living alone on that island. As for the bird wrapping the scarf around her neck, I take that as Eren no longer being alive physically but in paths watching over Mikasa.

 

[Equaling Heaven]

The entire point of Mikasa having a bittersweet ending is to show Ymir that sometimes you have to pick reason/logic over feelings/emotions. Something Ymir herself couldn't accomplish.
SnK was never supposed to be a tale with heroes being forever happy in the end. Nobody is truly happy (not totally). No total victory was achieved.