Hangout Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

[Utsune]

Ramdom question. Is it outed anywhere how RBA got into the walls in the first place? They have been pretty young (inb4 becoming a shifter completely halts aging) at the time and while the colossal was near the gate, he couldn't just go back to human form and enter the gates. What's more, none of the three had access to 3DMG so they could not really climb the walls as well.

I've been wondering about something similar for a while too. Before deciding anything, notice the 1st time Col. Titan transforms is slightly different than the 2nd time. The 1st time involves ground-shaking. The 2nd time, he just simply appears. For the 2nd time, I wouldn't doubt Isayama can easily make the ground shake like the 1st time: "After Eren finishes his monologue, the ground shakes and falls on his butt. He turns around to see the Col. Titan."

Of course, the difference of having and not having the shaking of the ground can merely be dramatic licensing instead of some profound logic, but if I had to try and explain that, I could only say, Bert must have transformed as he landed on the ground. How could he have 'landed?' Well, he must have jumped off from somewhere high.

The other difference is, Col. Titan doesn't show his face immediate the 1st time after the transformation. He shows his face immediately after the flash of light the 2nd time. If he had landed from somewhere high, it would be possibly imperative for him to land in a crouching posture with one hand on the ground for balance. Of course, it could be dramatic licensing again, though if it were supposed to have an explanation, that's what I would say.

And my last point is, I still can't figure out if Bert transformed on the ground, would he be teleported straight to the nape? Or would Titan body grow out from him, and push the head part (and therefore himself) upward? We have seen Eren's protection transformation, where bones and muscles build progressively outwards (from the centre of his body to the fingertips.) If Bert transformed on the ground, it would just be the same for him as anyone else (getting pushed upwards by the spawning of Titan body.) But I'm just curious if the ground-shaking bit at the beginning has something to do with anything at all.

Final final point, I'm also curious as to how Bert reverts back to human. If he didn't have 3DMG, then shouldn't he lie down as with the nape as close to the ground as possible to avoid falling injury?

 

[kkck]

I would think they originally entered the walls from a location in between the cities. The outer cities are meant to draw titans so that they do not have to protect the entirety of the walls. So basically they had thousands upon thousands of KMs to enter from. As for the attacks, perhaps they each had a function. Berholt had to destroy the wall, Annie had to be there to take him away as berholt would be unable to run away on his own and reyner would have to go and destroy the second gate.

I do wonder, how exactly did the scouting legion know about the female type titan? The original expedition was meant to draw annie in order to capture her... but for that they would have had to know about her. How did they ever first encounter annie?

 

[kannazuki]

I think the Scouts who were around from five years ago, or who are *very* close to Erwin all knew about her. Levi and Hange knew for sure. I strongly suspect Mike and possibly even all of *Mike's* team members knew about her. It's just a guess but I think that Erwin for sure and then at least some of the others have seen her before.

 

[ForMotherRussia]

has anyone seen the latest VG-cats comic strip?

Spoiler

 

[Utsune]

has anyone seen the latest VG-cats comic strip?

Spoiler

Waahahahaaaa way to go, Grisha, screwing over humanity.
If this really happened, I guess I'd still be reading the manga, but for a different reason

 

[kannazuki]

I bet Dot Pixis has subscriptions to those too...

 

[SarcasticIndeed]

I've been wondering about something similar for a while too. Before deciding anything, notice the 1st time Col. Titan transforms is slightly different than the 2nd time. The 1st time involves ground-shaking. The 2nd time, he just simply appears. For the 2nd time, I wouldn't doubt Isayama can easily make the ground shake like the 1st time: "After Eren finishes his monologue, the ground shakes and falls on his butt. He turns around to see the Col. Titan."

Of course, the difference of having and not having the shaking of the ground can merely be dramatic licensing instead of some profound logic, but if I had to try and explain that, I could only say, Bert must have transformed as he landed on the ground. How could he have 'landed?' Well, he must have jumped off from somewhere high.

The other difference is, Col. Titan doesn't show his face immediate the 1st time after the transformation. He shows his face immediately after the flash of light the 2nd time. If he had landed from somewhere high, it would be possibly imperative for him to land in a crouching posture with one hand on the ground for balance. Of course, it could be dramatic licensing again, though if it were supposed to have an explanation, that's what I would say.

And my last point is, I still can't figure out if Bert transformed on the ground, would he be teleported straight to the nape? Or would Titan body grow out from him, and push the head part (and therefore himself) upward? We have seen Eren's protection transformation, where bones and muscles build progressively outwards (from the centre of his body to the fingertips.) If Bert transformed on the ground, it would just be the same for him as anyone else (getting pushed upwards by the spawning of Titan body.) But I'm just curious if the ground-shaking bit at the beginning has something to do with anything at all.

Final final point, I'm also curious as to how Bert reverts back to human. If he didn't have 3DMG, then shouldn't he lie down as with the nape as close to the ground as possible to avoid falling injury?

You have some good points. I always found it weird that in the first appearing of the Colossal titan he had to sort of "climb" the wall, say, hold onto it with his hand so he could stand upright. But if this was from transforming during a jump, where could he have jumped from? The only way I around this is that he actually jumped from the wall, which means he could somehow climb them without the 3DMG. Or maybe he was inside them before? I really do not hunderstand how this could have happened.

Another point, I don't see how could he get into the walls and later get to the academy. To get into the walls, he would have to go human and walk through the hole he made, which would make him noticed by other people and draw the hordes of rushing titans towards him. Not very practical, I think.

A way around it I can think of it is that he threw R and A over the wall (just tossed them) and then they formed a titan shield (not complete, just a small skeleton) to enter the walls. I think that's a bit too far fetched though o.o I really don't see how it is possible.

Also, random thought while thinking about this. Are the remaining three protrusions from the outermost wall safe? Their walls to the inwards of the wall should not be broken...

 

[kannazuki]

There are a few ways they can get over an intact wall, I'd expect. Probably several more variations on top of the two scenarios I can imagine: R or A could have thrown B; or he could have given them a lift as a titan while they were in their human forms, then they'd give him a lift up in his own human form. Remember they could have done it in the middle of the night at a part of the wall no one pays attention to.

 

[SarcasticIndeed]

There are a few ways they can get over an intact wall, I'd expect. Probably several more variations on top of the two scenarios I can imagine: R or A could have thrown B; or he could have given them a lift as a titan while they were in their human forms, then they'd give him a lift up in his own human form. Remember they could have done it in the middle of the night at a part of the wall no one pays attention to.

Yeah, but right after B destroyed the outermost gate, how did he get in? No one seemed to be on top of the wall. Though I guess it is possible they did it later.

 

[kannazuki]

Oh, sorry. My guess is he escaped with Annie at first (she would have guarded his human form like Reiner is now), without entering Maria until they were farther away. Meanwhile everyone's attention was on Reiner, who smashed the inner wall.

 

[Utsune]

Concerning kkck's point about the thousands of km of possible entrances, as well as kannazuki's elaboration, that is definitely doable. Annie can climb walls as far as we have been shown. The only disadvantage is leaving behind climb marks aka evidence.

My number one concern is, whether the normal Titans target RBA like they are humans... Judging from their recent conversation, I really think they would get attacked even in their Titan forms. If this were the case, the situation would be more complicated.

If Reiner and/or Annie are already on standby, she could've collected Bert as soon as he gets out of his Titan form. Also, Annie could be the one who leads all the Titans over, so she's already in her Titan form. Whether the Titans follow her out of obedience or gluttony, I don't know. For now I'm saying the Titans that are being led switch their target from Annie to humans after breaking through the main gate.

The moment Reiner breaks through the inner gate, they're all set. All they have to do is walk away (with Reiner carrying BA) to some place where no-one would see them transforming back. Also, during Reiner's attack, for all we know BA could've been inside his mouth (although I doubt this myself, this is definitely viable.)

Of course, this is assuming they're doing everything in one go, and entered right away. What SarcasticIndeed said about entering later is also an option, but walking away from the main gate risks drawing the attention of the normal Titans, not saying they would prioritise targetting RBA over humans. Also, Reiner appears very early on, the turn of event is:

0) Gate broken
1) Eren runs back to house
2) Eren gets carried away
3) Eren gets on boat
4) Reiner destroys gate

The time between (2) and (3) could have taken a while, but seeing Eren getting on the same ship as Armin even with all those people trying to get on makes me think he at least gets prioritised because he's a kid, i.e. the period between (2) and (3) is minimal. Under this logic, Reiner would quite literally have to enter very soon after breaking through the first gate, also meaning either (at least) Bert is on top of the outer wall, or Bert is with Reiner, unless Annie is with/transporting him somewhere, as part of kannazuki's suggestion.

I try to talk about Reiner because there's only so little time for them to do anything in my prediction. Just to summarise, the only possibilities are, Annie is either transformed or not transformed. In case she is transformed, she probably keeps Bert safe (also suggesting she takes Bert in right after kicking down the first gate.) In case she is in human form, BA are either on top of the outer wall (which requires climbing and is unlikely,) or with Reiner (which is more likely if you consider (1) Reiner takes in Bert after going back to human, (2) Reiner takes in Annie after completing her leading task, and (3) they move in together with Reiner transformed.) So really the only two options according to this logic are either (1) BA are with Reiner, or (2) Reiner and Annie are both in transformed state.

I just realise I'm stating a lot of obvious lol. Meh whatever.

 

[Demonspeed]

Ramdom question. Is it outed anywhere how RBA got into the walls in the first place? They have been pretty young (inb4 becoming a shifter completely halts aging) at the time and while the colossal was near the gate, he couldn't just go back to human form and enter the gates. What's more, none of the three had access to 3DMG so they could not really climb the walls as well.

I don't think you should assume they had not access to 3DMG. We know that they were trained to fight at a very young age, they call themselves warriors. In a world infested by titans I don't think they just trained in martial arts. Isn't it suggested they entered right after the wall destruction in the anime fillers?. They could have just pretended to be refugees. Or maybe be there is a spy among the higher ups or whatever who helped them enter.

 

[SarcasticIndeed]

Yeah, there are definite possibilities right now. For a first, Armored Titan was the first titan to breach the inner wall. He could have easily held the other two in his mount and shifted back to human after the breach. He'd be the first to have a chance to get on the boat to safety.

And I definitely think RBA attract titans. We have seen that titans are maybe even more attracted to shifters than to normal people. Good point about Annie, though I think a 60m tall lump of flesh followed with a large earthshaking appearance would attract a lot of titans anyway.

EDIT: Where did R and B tell Eren they come from when they were still training to be soldiers.? I can't remember... This may resolve this somehow.

 

[kannazuki]

I also think shifters probably attract regular titans more than regular humans do, but large number of humans surely matter too. However, if Annie could hold her own against Eren, she can handle at least as many titans as he did when he was mindless. Probably more. If the crowd of titans was big enough, they'd just have to make sure they notice the large populated area and pick the most opportune time to escape.

Bert was talking about a village to the south of Wall Maria. I thought it was a typo, the first time I read that. Then I didn't know what to make of Reiner's "overreaction" to Bert making up a story about them "running all the way to Wall Rose."

That reminds me, was it a river they escaped on, or a lake? If it was a river, it would go out through the walls somewhere, wouldn't it?

 

[Yumpo]

@SarcasticIndeed
They said they came from a mountain village southeast of Wall Maria. Kinda think its still the truth, in English I guess. I mean they didn't say southeast inside Wall Maria or something. XD

Bert was talking about a village to the south of Wall Maria. I thought it was a typo, the first time I read that. Then I didn't know what to make of Reiner's "overreaction" to Bert making up a story about them "running all the way to Wall Rose."

That reminds me, was it a river they escaped on, or a lake? If it was a river, it would go out through the walls somewhere, wouldn't it?

What's actually worse is that Bertolt, in the manga, didn't say that they ran up to "Wall Rose." He said they ran up to "Wall Sina"....I dunno if it was a typo or if it is actually what he really said(If he really was lying...)...But I wonder why nobody caught that. The Wall Maria refugees' destination is normally just up to Wall Rose. Why go up all the way to Wall Sina?

The river thing was actually a "town nearby a river." Bert was comparing how late the news came to their mountain village about the titans coming than that of the "prosperous river town." I'm wondering if this "river town" is a stand-in for something....Interesting.

 

[Utsune]

Sorry to break your discussion (I've yet to re-read that part to contribute anything )

But can anyone explain this part to me?

Spoiler

The middle two panels, what are they referring to?

Or is it not as deep as I think it is?

 

[kannazuki]

Sorry, I think the main "trite old custom" they're referring to is how they handle securing the populace against the titan threat. That's why the MPs being moved directly to the wall is a sign of changing times. At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised if there really is a deeper meaning here but it seems if so, it's something vague and shadowy and not something we could guess from this passage alone.

 

[Utsune]

Sorry, I think the main "trite old custom" they're referring to is how they handle securing the populace against the titan threat. That's why the MPs being moved directly to the wall is a sign of changing times. At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised if there really is a deeper meaning here but it seems if so, it's something vague and shadowy and not something we could guess from this passage alone.

I can't believe this completely skips me Thanks.

Just a small point: interesting to note this is the first time we see direct conversation between these two (if I haven't missed anything again lol,) unlike in the anime where they specially show a filler scene of them before Eren's trial, most likely to reinforce the idea of their similar mindset (also Armin's flashes of thoughts when he talks about the courage to sacrifice in his conversation with Jean.)

 

[chilibun]

I do wonder, how exactly did the scouting legion know about the female type titan? The original expedition was meant to draw annie in order to capture her... but for that they would have had to know about her. How did they ever first encounter annie?

The Legion didn't know about Annie specifically. They suspected that the special titans (ie: armored, colossal) were really human controlled titans like Eren, so they used him to bait out the enemy. It could have been anybody.

 

[kkck]

I don't think that makes sense. I would think the plan was specifically meant to draw out annie simply because the plan would not have worked with the armored or collosal titans. They knew the colossal titan was slow and he was too big for them to capture with the harpoons as they did with annie. In turn reyner's titan would have simply tanked the harpoons, they would not have gotten past his armor. The only titan they could possibly catch with that plan was the female type one.