Discussion Shinsoo manipulation and properties

[Jack Van Burace]

Yep, all matter behaves like a fluid below boiling point and above freezing point. Even glass isnt really solid and Air does behave like a fluid on the right temperature. Shinsoo isnt really water, its like "Aether", the greek mythical element. But this element behaves like a fluid and works the same as water do for fish but for the Shineuh. So air, fire, water, all these things exist within the Tower. They are different manifestations of Shinsoo.

 

[kkck]

Irure and her uncle were definitely using wind.

We didn't get any names or descriptions of their techniques though. I am not sure the way it looks is conclusive enough regarding it being wind.

 

[Ripcord]

We didn't get any names or descriptions of their techniques though. I am not sure the way it looks is conclusive enough regarding it being wind.

Do you propose that Irure used something other than a gust of wind to push over the tower that the quest monster was hiding in? While shinsoo doesn’t behave like air it doesn’t behave exactly like water either.

I mean, Gustang and Bam were standing in the waterfall and yet they didn’t get “soaked” and they could breathe and hold a conversation. I would guess that shinsoo behaving like fire is different than fire because.... fire means components of air (oxygen) combine with a material (fuel) and release energy. There is no oxygen in the shinsoo so flames shouldn’t exist either. Yet they do.

My point is that shinsoo isn’t a perfect replacement for all these things but it can mimic them decently.

Regarding Arie and their blade I am pretty sure it’s just spatial/shape manipulation of the shinsoo and not wind.

 

[kkck]

Do you propose that Irure used something other than a gust of wind to push over the tower that the quest monster was hiding in? While shinsoo doesn’t behave like air it doesn’t behave exactly like water either.

I mean, Gustang and Bam were standing in the waterfall and yet they didn’t get “soaked” and they could breathe and hold a conversation. I would guess that shinsoo behaving like fire is different than fire because.... fire means components of air (oxygen) combine with a material (fuel) and release energy. There is no oxygen in the shinsoo so flames shouldn’t exist either. Yet they do.

My point is that shinsoo isn’t a perfect replacement for all these things but it can mimic them decently.

Regarding Arie and their blade I am pretty sure it’s just spatial/shape manipulation of the shinsoo and not wind.

Shinsoo actually does behave like water quite often. There are lots of situations where it straight up looks like a fluid or liquid moving rapidly. And there are many shinsoo attacks that end up looking like water splashes.

 

[Ripcord]

Shinsoo actually does behave like water quite often. There are lots of situations where it straight up looks like a fluid or liquid moving rapidly. And there are many shinsoo attacks that end up looking like water splashes.

That’s my point, sometimes shinsoo acts very much like water, or fire, but it doesn’t completely.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 3, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 3, 2018 ---

Taken from an extra area in the Wiki about shinsoo. I don’t know the real source though.

Externally manipulating Shinsoo to change the environment, to attack an opponent or to carry out other actions, such as flying or levitation, is known as Shinsoo manipulation (신수 조작 (神水 操作), shinsoo jojahk; "divine water manipulation"). Depending on the group or region, it also goes by several other names such as "water mastery" (수역 (水役), sooyeok; "to make water a servant") or "wind technique" (풍술 (風術), poongsul; "wind skill").

 

[Demonspeed]

We didn't get any names or descriptions of their techniques though. I am not sure the way it looks is conclusive enough regarding it being wind.

I don't see how it could be anything other than wind. If it's not wind, then what it is?

 

[kkck]

I don't see how it could be anything other than wind. If it's not wind, then what it is?

Regular shinsoo blasts being thrown in an ordinary manner

 

[Jack Van Burace]

Well we saw with Rak that there are indeed elements within the tower, and I find It hard for an author that delves into these features to exclude a classic element such as 'wind' from its roaster. We definitely have fire, Earth and Steel, so its not simply water variants.

About Hoaqin, I have a hope that Wind+Spell results in Soul Manipulation. Each family head has a couple of affinities: Edwan has at least 3 qualities, and we Can guess them to be Lightning, Water and Ice, for instante. Arie Hon sacrifices people to empower his sword, he might have one foot in spells and another in Wind, making Arie linked to Ghosts and the Undead, "floating immaterial beings that manifest on physical realm". Ghosts do have a link to Air in a Sense.

 

[Ripcord]

Well we saw with Rak that there are indeed elements within the tower, and I find It hard for an author that delves into these features to exclude a classic element such as 'wind' from its roaster. We definitely have fire, Earth and Steel, so its not simply water variants.

About Hoaqin, I have a hope that Wind+Spell results in Soul Manipulation. Each family head has a couple of affinities: Edwan has at least 3 qualities, and we Can guess them to be Lightning, Water and Ice, for instante. Arie Hon sacrifices people to empower his sword, he might have one foot in spells and another in Wind, making Arie linked to Ghosts and the Undead, "floating immaterial beings that manifest on physical realm". Ghosts do have a link to Air in a Sense.

We know that Hoaquin used souls to artificially increase his strength. There isn’t anything that says Arie Hon did the same. It’s certainly possible since Hoaquin found the book of ancient spells, but nothing official. And there is no confirmation that their element is wind, only that they’re able to control the shinsoo around them in the shape of a blade.

In Naruto wind chakra could cut as well as push things (kinda weird but ok) and that may be the case in ToG also but as far as we know wind pushes and the Arie sword is made of something else.

Otherwise I agree with you that there are elements throughout the Tower and wind is one of them.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

There isn’t anything that says Arie Hon did the same. It’s certainly possible since Hoaquin found the book of ancient spells, but nothing official.

"So son, no matter how hard you try, it is impossible for 'you' to surpass your 'father' here. From the servants, wives and countless sons of the family - their flesh, bones and blood have gathered to create the great, one and only Arie blade. And above all of this I, your father, tower as the ruler. Son, if you wish to become part of this sword, grow and sacrifice yourself in my arms. However, if you really wish to surpass me, then leave this place. Leave and return as a demon." (Arie Hon to Young Hoaqin)

Indeed, It seems like he uses bodies, not Souls. But somehow similar I would say.

 

[kkck]

"So son, no matter how hard you try, it is impossible for 'you' to surpass your 'father' here. From the servants, wives and countless sons of the family - their flesh, bones and blood have gathered to create the great, one and only Arie blade. And above all of this I, your father, tower as the ruler. Son, if you wish to become part of this sword, grow and sacrifice yourself in my arms. However, if you really wish to surpass me, then leave this place. Leave and return as a demon." (Arie Hon to Young Hoaqin)

Indeed, It seems like he uses bodies, not Souls. But somehow similar I would say.

When reading that I didn't get the impression he was talking of something similar to what hoaquin did for power in any context. What I took from this at the time was that "the great arie" blade is his family itself. A family that is enslaved to him and to make him greater. I guess it is plausible he does something like hoaquin though I find the idea that an irregular like him could power up from his family's meaguer souls weird.

 

[Demonspeed]

Huh, no I don't think Hon did anything like that. What I understood by this is that he meant that there was no way for any of his descendants to surpass him. So he told Hoaqin to do the unthinkable to have a chance, Hoaqin's solution was spell. Hon is far more talented than his descendants.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

I see Hon as Very talented yes, but I get this feeling of maniac from him as well. I thought It was possible to be a figured speech too, but If we consider sons usually follow parents' virtues and vices with equal chances, and that mythical figures often devour their siblings, I took It literally. Both Chronos and Uranos, father and grandfather to Zeus respectively, did exactly that. But we have to wait and see what SIU Will have to say, I agree. These are just impressions I get every now and then, maybe I'm Reading too much into It.

 

[kkck]

If hon could increase his strength via devouring his children then wouldn't he have already surpassed zahard? Hon isn't like hoaquin after all, an ordinary desperate tower dweller bound by his birth to arbitrary tower rules.... Who got a the smallest of crumbs of power from absorbing billions upon billions of tiny souls... He is an irregular with virtually no restrictions powerwise who appeared to be second to zahard from time immemorial. If on top of that he was absorbing the power of his family, the strongest family... It sounds like he shouldn't be second to anyone within the tower. Except phantaminum of course.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

Maybe with his Blade he is above Jahad. The "Souls and Bodies" are perhaps in that sword, not in himself. Or maybe Jahad knows How to nullify the effects of this Spell(?) and in a fight with him this kind of power, although immense, wouldn't work, or against skilled Spell users/irregulars? Only SIU will answer this imo. I definitely think that sword is the ultimate Power in the tower because of some sacrifical Mojo, same as with 13 months' but even farther than theirs.

 

[Demonspeed]

Zahard is against spells in the first place. There is no way Hon would be allowed to do this. Hon, just like all the other Heads isn't normal. I think it's been made clear that they are freaks.

SIU said he used the Greek Gods as inspiration for them and that Dionysus was the model for Eduan. For Zahard, it must be Zeus and probably Poseidon for Hon.

 

[kkck]

Zahard is against spells in the first place. There is no way Hon would be allowed to do this. Hon, just like all the other Heads isn't normal. I think it's been made clear that they are freaks.

SIU said he used the Greek Gods as inspiration for them and that Dionysus was the model for Eduan. For Zahard, it must be Zeus and probably Poseidon for Hon.

I don't remember zahard taking issue specifically with spells. Not to mention several of the heads seem very familiar with them and there are many spell users outside of the family heads.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

Thx for that info. But Arie is likely inspired on Aries, the Spartan's God of War. They had long hair which was never cut in order to show how they had never been defeated in battle (unlike that horribly innacurate movie '300').

Judging from this perspective, Yeon would be Hestia, goddess of home and fireplaces (only noticed the relation to fire when I finished writing, lol). Hestia was a virgin, just like Yeon Hana.

Yurin is likely Athena. But Poseidon, he possesses the biggest Kingdom of all, and is father to Monsters/aberrations. Maybe Bloodmadder suits him more.

V for Hades, ofc.

 

[Demonspeed]

I don't remember zahard taking issue specifically with spells. Not to mention several of the heads seem very familiar with them and there are many spell users outside of the family heads.

Garam said that Zahard forbid spells, of course the Heads know about them, Arlen was even an expert at this. But under Zahard's reign, spells are forbidden. It doesn't mean that there are no people who break this rule.

 

[kkck]

Yurin is likely Athena. But Poseidon, he possesses the biggest Kingdom of all, and is father to Monsters/aberrations. Maybe Bloodmadder suits him more.

Going by that poseidon would make more sense for lo po bia. They are the anima after all.