Discussion Shinsoo manipulation and properties

[Demonspeed]

Atributes can be specified by shape and/or elemental properties.

The attributes we know so far are Orb, Needle, Shield, Spear, Sword and Vine IIRC. Not sure how I should call Androssi's.

Fire, Electricity, Ice, Rock, Plant, Wind, Water(?), Gold. We know that Orb maximizes Shinsoo, what do you think are the abilities of the others? I guess Shield is obvious but for the others, not so much.

SIU said that that the Gold attribute from Zahard is like some special metal unique in TOG more similar to diamond IRL.

Now we have Miseng's Shinsoo Boost and Evankhell's Inferno which is a rare Orb attribute. I need to make a good list about them.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

I have been thinking about something, which is How Shinsoo behaves like air or water If It is denser or lighter. Someone pointed out when I Said It that rock could be way denser than water, making a solid Shinsoo. It got me thinking How does this all work. And eventually I've assembled a possible list of density of Shinsoo.

At first, I thought How Air is volatile, and How fire should be less dense than Air. Then I remembered Ice (Aguero) and Light (I suppose Dark Scales from Quant and White Light by Charlie the Ranker are forms of light bending). Then Bam's void and Jahad's Gold, and lastly electricity as standalone middle term between Water and Air (remember that this is Shinsoo, not real life substances), since Jeonsulsa can shape It fluidly and yet get fixed shapes. Here is what I came up with:

Void (emptiness is negative density, sucks all)
Light (untouchable)
Fire (hot)
Air (opposite of water)
Thunder (middle element)
Water (opposite of air)
Ice/Crystal (cold)
Earth/Rock (dark)
Gold (so dense It has its own light, like a sun)

It doesn't make sense in light of some Shinsoo types tho: living Shinsoo, like Baek Ryun's, or spiritual like Michael's. Maybe they can't all be listed like this by a single feature. Its Just some thought that came to my mind.

 

[kkck]

What the lore tells us is that shinsoo's behavior changes with concentration. At lower concentrations it behaves like a gas and at higher ones it behaves like a liquid.

As for the actual physics or quantum physics of this... who knows. I don't think even SIU knows. My guess, which is no more than a guess, is that shinsoo is made out one or more fundamental particles and depending on the structure they take they become different things. Kinda like how neutrons, protons and electrons make up conventional matter. And going further down the crack hole my crackpot theory about shinwonryu was that it was the equivalent of quantum level manipulation of shinsoo.

Anyways, one way or the other I think it is a moderately safe bet to say that shinsoo is simply TOG's alternative to matter. And it can be shaped into many things in much the same way that matter can take many different properties.

 

[TheLastMartian]

Anyways, one way or the other I think it is a moderately safe bet to say that shinsoo is simply TOG's alternative to magic. And it can be shaped into many things in much the same way that magic can take many different properties.

Clearly the characters are not made out of shinso so I fixed your post xD

 

[kkck]

Clearly the characters are not made out of shinso so I fixed your post xD

The characters actually are made out of shinsoo. Nothing else exists within the tower after all. At least according to the lore. The only exceptions would apparently be irregulars. Granted that it hasn't been explicitly said but for the most part its the most reasonable explanation as the series has made the point that everything within the tower is shinsoo.

 

[TheLastMartian]

The characters actually are made out of shinsoo. Nothing else exists within the tower after all. At least according to the lore. The only exceptions would apparently be irregulars. Granted that it hasn't been explicitly said but for the most part its the most reasonable explanation as the series has made the point that everything within the tower is shinsoo.

From what I understand shinso is the atmosphere and not all matter. There is no indication that characters, the warships, the floating buildings, etc, are made of shinso. Shinso is simply the air of the tower but unlike air it can be manipulated by people in various ways. Sort of a mix of air and Chakra from Naruto.

 

[Ripcord]

From what I understand shinso is the atmosphere and not all matter. There is no indication that characters, the warships, the floating buildings, etc, are made of shinso. Shinso is simply the air of the tower but unlike air it can be manipulated by people in various ways. Sort of a mix of air and Chakra from Naruto.

From what I understand shinso is the atmosphere and not all matter. There is no indication that characters, the warships, the floating buildings, etc, are made of shinso. Shinso is simply the air of the tower but unlike air it can be manipulated by people in various ways. Sort of a mix of air and Chakra from Naruto.

Let this cook your noodle a bit.

All the characters have to me made of something. When baby Koon eats food in the Tower that food is converted in part into his body to make it bigger. Meaning the shinsoo is converted into parts of baby Koon to make big AA that we know today.

@Jammin had this great idea that Bam attacks the shinsoo at the heart of something, not the object itself. Meaning that if Bam attacks a fire shinsoo attack with a water shinsoo attack, it’s not as if Bam is countering fire with water (which is what happens for most tower residents). Rather, Bam’s attack dismantles the shinsoo itself.

This is why he was able to hurt Kallavan. Kallavan is made of shinsoo and Bam’s attack goes right at that. Now for irregulars, are they partially made of shinsoo? Or convert to all shinsoo... well that’s a weird thought.

For most Tower residents though they absolutely have to be made of shinsoo. What else could they be made up of? Atoms? If so then where did those atoms come from?

 

[TheLastMartian]

Let this cook your noodle a bit.

All the characters have to me made of something. When baby Koon eats food in the Tower that food is converted in part into his body to make it bigger. Meaning the shinsoo is converted into parts of baby Koon to make big AA that we know today.

@Jammin had this great idea that Bam attacks the shinsoo at the heart of something, not the object itself. Meaning that if Bam attacks a fire shinsoo attack with a water shinsoo attack, it’s not as if Bam is countering fire with water (which is what happens for most tower residents). Rather, Bam’s attack dismantles the shinsoo itself.

This is why he was able to hurt Kallavan. Kallavan is made of shinsoo and Bam’s attack goes right at that. Now for irregulars, are they partially made of shinsoo? Or convert to all shinsoo... well that’s a weird thought.

For most Tower residents though they absolutely have to be made of shinsoo. What else could they be made up of? Atoms? If so then where did those atoms come from?

Food in the tower is not made of Shinso...

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2019 ---

Shinsoo (신수 (神水), shinsu, literally "divine water") is a substance that flows through and is produced by the Tower. Each Floor has areas of varying amounts of Shinsoo density, increasing with each Floor. In lower concentrations, its density makes the substance act like a gas, but in higher concentrations, it behaves like a liquid.

Shinsoo's most significant difference to air is the laws by which it operates. Unlike air, which uniformly conforms to the laws of pressure when flowing, shinsoo has no unifying laws. It flows entirely differently in different places and Floors, at both it's own whim and that of the Guardian of the floor. The flow of shinsoo determines its qualities, allowing it to appear as water, fire, light and other phenomena and materials. Shinsoo has no singular property or feature, and is rather the very basis of all energy and things within the Tower.

Shinsoo is essential for living in the Tower, as it allows for breathing and provides moisture for the inhabitants. Lero-Ro stated that within the Tower, Shinsoo replaces air and carries out all the processes that air would.

 

[kkck]

Shinsoo (신수 (神水), shinsu, literally "divine water") is a substance that flows through and is produced by the Tower. Each Floor has areas of varying amounts of Shinsoo density, increasing with each Floor. In lower concentrations, its density makes the substance act like a gas, but in higher concentrations, it behaves like a liquid.

Shinsoo's most significant difference to air is the laws by which it operates. Unlike air, which uniformly conforms to the laws of pressure when flowing, shinsoo has no unifying laws. It flows entirely differently in different places and Floors, at both it's own whim and that of the Guardian of the floor. The flow of shinsoo determines its qualities, allowing it to appear as water, fire, light and other phenomena and materials. Shinsoo has no singular property or feature, and is rather the very basis of all energy and things within the Tower.

Shinsoo is essential for living in the Tower, as it allows for breathing and provides moisture for the inhabitants. Lero-Ro stated that within the Tower, Shinsoo replaces air and carries out all the processes that air would.

That bold part certainly sounds like shinsoo is pretty much what everything is made out of.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

Shinsoo is spawned everywhere, reason why people won't suffocate even If underwater or under a cave-in, like Aguero. I suppose It makes up everything, yes. What changes is how one can shape It.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2019 ---

The fact Baek Ryun can make life with Shinsoo proves that life is also comprised of Shinsoo.

 

[TheLastMartian]

Shinsoo is spawned everywhere, reason why people won't suffocate even If underwater or under a cave-in, like Aguero. I suppose It makes up everything, yes. What changes is how one can shape It.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2019 ---

The fact Baek Ryun can make life with Shinsoo proves that life is also comprised of Shinsoo.

Baek Ryun can't do that....

 

[kkck]

Shinsoo is spawned everywhere, reason why people won't suffocate even If underwater or under a cave-in, like Aguero. I suppose It makes up everything, yes. What changes is how one can shape It.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2019 ---

The fact Baek Ryun can make life with Shinsoo proves that life is also comprised of Shinsoo.

It's enryu that can allegedly create life. Though baek's story does have an interesting point here: The compressed forest. Maybe urek could do that because he compressed it like he does shinsoo?

 

[TheLastMartian]

That bold part certainly sounds like shinsoo is pretty much what everything is made out of.

I disagree

 

[kkck]

I disagree

Er, why? That bit is fairly explicit in that regard. What do you think it means?

 

[TheLastMartian]

Er, why? That bit is fairly explicit in that regard. What do you think it means?

Cause the wiki can be wrong. As far as I can tell that part of the wiki comes from the first part of the series.
The part that is almost word for word in part one compared to the wiki is this:

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2019 ---

Also in Part two Wangwam had a NON-SHINSO bomb.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2019 ---

 

[LushuMine]

We can think their body as our body. We are made 70% of water, but are water? No. They also say that 60% of the human body is also Oxygen. In TOG does not exist water or air (O2), it's a shinsoo role. So they are made of shinshoo, like us are made of oxygen and water. And all other elements to be honest. The shinsoo changes its role to perfom any role that the elements would do here: carbon, for example, could be shinshoo in ToG (I would say).

 

[TheLastMartian]

We can think their body as our body. We are made 70% of water, but are water? No. They also say that 60% of the human body is also Oxygen. In TOG does not exist water or air (O2), it's a shinsoo role. So they are made of shinshoo, like us are made of oxygen and water. And all other elements to be honest. The shinsoo changes its role to perfom any role that the elements would do here: carbon, for example, could be shinshoo in ToG (I would say).

Yes and buildings and cars are not made out of water and air, neither are the warships and cities in ToG.

 

[LushuMine]

Yes and buildings and cars are not made out of water and air, neither are the warships and cities in ToG.

I think you didn't understand what I tried to say... Shinsoo is the core of everything, like the cells and molecules for us humans. It changes his attributes to perfom any role. Cars and warships are made out of shinshoo, because the core of it was made of shinshoo.

Air = Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon, Carbon Dioxide. In ToG it's only shinshoo.
Water = Hydrogen, Oxygen. In Tog it's only shinshoo.

I think in your mind they get a huge amount of energy and transform in a car. They get ToG "iron" but the iron is shinsoo... shinsoo is like a molecule that can turn to be everything. The core, as you showed.

 

[TheLastMartian]

I think you didn't understand what I tried to say... Shinsoo is the core of everything, like the cells and molecules for us humans. It changes his attributes to perfom any role. Cars and warships are made out of shinshoo, because the core of it was made of shinshoo.

Air = Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon, Carbon Dioxide. In ToG it's only shinshoo.
Water = Hydrogen, Oxygen. In Tog it's only shinshoo.

I think in your mind they get a huge amount of energy and transform in a car. They get ToG "iron" but the iron is shinsoo... shinsoo is like a molecule that can turn to be everything. The core, as you showed.

Then how is it possible to have a non-shinso bomb?

Why can't powerful wavecontrollers just take about warships or just make them explode by manipulating them? Why don't they turn the floor enemies stand on into an attack?

 

[Jack Van Burace]

Then how is it possible to have a non-shinso bomb?

Why can't powerful wavecontrollers just take about warships or just make them explode by manipulating them? Why don't they turn the floor enemies stand on into an attack?

We can split certain atoms and make an atomic bomb, but we cannot weaponize a person's body. All atoms are made of prótons, nêutrons and electrons, yet they are different. I think Shinsoo is a simplified version of atomic structure.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 27, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 27, 2019 ---

I take It that Wangnan had a raw Shinsoo bomb, while the other was a sticky gum and not an attack. For instance, all bullets carry energy, but If we had an energy gun and a bullet firing gun, that's How we would call them still, regardless of correct therms.