sighh..grays..

[spades]

ok. first, lemme show u guys the raw (thx Sai_the_shaman):

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6673/gintama20803ns0.jpg

i decided to practice editing grays. i'm not really concerned about the other parts of the page n this is what i got:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8041/03copysl5.png

but then!! after i finished this, i realized that you're supposed to do grays BEFORE resizing it...so i was planning to do the page all over again when i got this:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/7550/032xx0.png

when i did the grays BEFORE resizing it, it looked...HORRIBLE! IS IT SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THAT?!? AM I SUPPOSED TO SOMEHOW DODGE N BURN THE PATTERN TO MAKE THE TONE QUALITY THE SAME?!
so i thought n thought n decided to try a different gray:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4899/033ad0.png

..it turned out OK..kinda plain but it IS the proper way..no? (a noised gray)

so now i ask u guys: is a film gray better or a pattern for the gray better for the raw i had? n is doin the gray before better or after resizing better?

sighh..grays hav so many ways to edit its so hard to choose

[btw, thxs to emery for showing me the website for the patterns]

 

[hatsuharupeace]

The first edit you did looked the best, looked natural, while the other two looked like it was done by hand.

 

[spades]

woooww..
FAST reply hahaha

hmm..i c..but what about the last one? i thought the cleaning tut in MH told us to use a noised gray.

o, n btw, is doin the gray before or after better?

 

[hatsuharupeace]

Do all your cleaning before resizing, that way you have better resolution to do all the by-hand redraws if you need to. For the last one, it looks okay, but the first one still looks the best in my opinion.

 

[spades]

wait..so that means i replace the gray before resizing the page?

 

[hatsuharupeace]

Yeah, definately. There'll be loss of detail if you resize than do the cleaning.

 

[spades]

but if i replace it before resizing, it'll result to the second one i did, which is NOT nice.

sigh..grays are soo annoying

 

[hatsuharupeace]

How did you get the first gray?? Just by levelling??

 

[Esc.]

yay, Gintama!

Large raw.

Anyway, the first way you did it, the patternized grays, is the correct way of cleaning grays, since toning is all done by using patterns. A lot of people use film grains so they won't have to deal with it, but it's the proper way.

Also, yea. Do all your editing before resizing, it saves resolution and it looks way better. Plus, all the little details that you messed up on that you don't want people to see will be hidden cause it'll basically be too small to see.

Keep it up. O_O need more Gintama Manga Editors...!!!!!

 

[spades]

How did you get the first gray?? Just by levelling??

i replaced it with a pattern

aahh i c haha so do all the cleaning like normal first, then when it comes to the gray, i replace it after resizing it, is this correct?

thx.

[YAY for gintama!! haha]

 

[Vato Loco!]

Always replace grays (if you are) when you're at your final height (1200 usually) as adding them in and then resizing will resize the patterns as well. However, I really don't see the point to doing all your editing while still in high res. Doing your typesetting at that size then resizing would make it look so odd. Cleaning at that size would take much longer than cleaning at your final size. Not to mention regardless of what you do at that size the detail preservation is the same. And no, just because you work at a large resolution doesn't mean when it's resized any mistake will disappear; what's more likely to happen is that when its resized you'll have a nice little batch of mess on your image. Regardless of that, making mistakes shouldn't be a problem if you work on layers. Any experienced editor will tell you that working on the original background layer would be a bad idea.

 

[spades]

thx vato laco!

nah, i clean after resizing the page (too much wwoorrrkk haha) except in redrawing
n yes, i use layers (so that i can see how pretty i made the page lol)

YAY! now i know how to do grays properly
thx everyone

 

[Esc.]

Obviously, everyone uses layers.

But why would the detail preservation stay the same when you are working in High res to Final height. O_o Why do you think using High res is better? If you're just going to resize after leveling, then there's no point in the scanner keeping the height so large. Only if the Manga Editor wants to choose what their final height would be.

Oh well, I guess everyone has their opinion. I've done HQ cleans with high res before, and it looks way better than an average height HQ clean. I can show you the difference, though I don't have anything prepared. In my opinion the average height clean always looks blurry when finished. Not sure why.

Anyway, it's really up to the cleaner.

 

[spades]

well, for me, that page was easy. just black paw prints in the background n thats all i need to do. so there was no poiint in cleaning it in its original size . altough i did redraw it before resizing.

i choose to clean after/before resizing depending on whats on the page. for example, if its full of details n stuff, i clean then resize. but if the page is simple like the one i did above, then i resize it then clean

 

[Vato Loco!]

Obviously, everyone uses layers.

But why would the detail preservation stay the same when you are working in High res to Final height. O_o Why do you think using High res is better? If you're just going to resize after leveling, then there's no point in the scanner keeping the height so large. Only if the Manga Editor wants to choose what their final height would be.

The detail preservation is the same because rasterized images are dependent on the ppi of the image. So when you resize the image your ppi is changed meaning the amount of pixels dedicated to any given detail will be reduced. Regardless of when you do your editing. Which means your manual EDITING (not adjustment layers) won't have an affect on the detail retention of the image you're working on. Ever. However, using adjustment layers is already destruction of the pixels of the image as it is adjusting the composition of the pixel.

A high res (in this instance) does not indicate the size of the image but the number of DPI at which the image is being scanned at (though high res is being very loosely used in the first place.) Meaning that these raws that are being scanned at 300 dpi will be crisply represented on their digital counterparts (I.E. if you printed the raw image theoretically it should print at the size of the magazine page.)　A high res is better because when using adjustment layers you're working on a more detailed, crisper and larger scan. So instead of leveling and adjusting an entire pattern you're leveling and adjusting the enlarged dots of the halftone pattern being shown. But again, reg cleaning will not at all affect the quality of the image unless you're purposely going in and messing with the details.

In my opinion the average height clean always looks blurry when finished. Not sure why.

Anyway, it's really up to the cleaner.

Because of the way the image is re-sized (I.E. bicubic as opposed to sharpener or smoothener)

 

[spades]

...hahahahaha

a very detailed explanation haha
but now i understand abit more about raws