Discussion Simple reason why Katakuri is not a Logia

McNuss

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Katakuri can imbue his mochi with Haki. If we go by Smoker, Logia users cannot do that. This is because Katakuri is not transforming into mochi like Logia users are transforming into their respective elements. He always is mochi. Just like Luffy is always rubber and Daz Bones is always blades.

However, Katakuri can produce mochi too, like Gal Dino produces wax or Magellan produces poison. Produced Paramecia materials can be imbued with Haki too as we know from Doflamingo. When Awakened, Haki can even be applied to produced materials without them having ever been in contact with the user, as seen by Doflamingo's God Thread and Katakuri's Peerless Donuts.

We really learned alot about both Haki and Devil fruits from that recent fight.
 

kkck

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In context logias are always their element. It is one of the reasons ace kept burning the hats he made for oars. And it's not like that even is an ability that needs to be activated. Hit a logia hard enough without haki and they simply shift. Katakuri in that regard is not different from a logia. He can mold his body like a logia and things go through him like with a logia. Heck, his body can even be split into two like a logias provided haki doesn't cut him.

That said, the haki bit you mention about logia and hardening is not entirely accurate. It makes sense that you can imbue haki into things that have no physical substance so to speak (though smoker can use hardening). However there is no reason magma, ice or sand can't be imbued with haki the same as mochi.

What I am not 100% sure of is whether katakuri can produce mochi to be honest. Mochi is elastic and he can get as much as he wants from his surroundings via awakening. The most likely scenario of course is that he can produce as much mochi as he can like any logia could produce of their element however given how things play out I think there is a very small chance he might be faking that.

Anyways, the reason katakuri is a special paramecia and not a logia is that mochi is not a natural element. Logia literally translates to "nature system" and paramecia to "superhuman system". Katakuri is a paramecia because nature is a bitch to mochi.
 

McNuss

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In context logias are always their element. It is one of the reasons ace kept burning the hats he made for oars. And it's not like that even is an ability that needs to be activated. Hit a logia hard enough without haki and they simply shift. Katakuri in that regard is not different from a logia. He can mold his body like a logia and things go through him like with a logia. Heck, his body can even be split into two like a logias provided haki doesn't cut him.
No, Logia's need to actively transform. That's how Smoker got hit when Luffy crashed into him in the bar in Alabasta. In the same arc we learn from Crocodile that he has learned to activate his ability on reflex. I believe this was even in SBS. Ace just accidently burned the hats.]
 

kkck

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No, Logia's need to actively transform. That's how Smoker got hit when Luffy crashed into him in the bar in Alabasta. In the same arc we learn from Crocodile that he has learned to activate his ability on reflex. I believe this was even in SBS. Ace just accidently burned the hats.]
Ah, you are right about that, users need to learn to transform on reflex. Still, the rest of what I said stands as far as I can tell.
 

jrummyrum

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Logia's only need to actively transform until it becomes natural and reflex. We first saw that with Crocodile multiple times throughout the series and specifically at Marineford when Doflamingo randomly cut his head off. We also saw it with Kizaru at Sabaody, where he was screwing around paying attention to literally nobody and some random pirate fodder tried to shoot him in the head. It went straight through without Kizaru even noticing until the subsequent shots.

All we see with Katakuri is something similar...incredible mastery over his DF to the point of reflex in a natural logia state, then extreme manipulation through CoO.

I don't understand why it is so hard to accept that Katakuri is a logia? I don't see the big deal with it. Yes, it's not an element but it doesn't really matter. All this shows us is that logias are more diverse than we thought.
 

HereNThere

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I don't understand why it is so hard to accept that Katakuri is a logia? I don't see the big deal with it. Yes, it's not an element but it doesn't really matter. All this shows us is that logias are more diverse than we thought.
He's a Special Paramecia. It was changed from logia in the volume release.
 

KimCorrea

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Funny thing is on last chapter h almost behaved like pika.
He turned entirely into mochi and went sliding(?) After luffy...
Like he was melting and awakening the ground and going throught it...
Maybe everyone who has the body changed by the devil fruit and awakened could do that.
 

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Maybe everyone who has the body changed by the devil fruit and awakened could do that.
What makes you think that way? Katakuri has the very same kind of ability as any other "producer" type — he creates stuff. He is called a special paramecia solely because he possesses logia-esque abilities (or rather one ability).

Look at any other food based ability — they're all about creating stuff and not turning into food. Cracker, Perospero, Opera.
 
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KimCorrea

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What makes you think that way? Katakuri has the very same kind of ability as any other "producer" type — he creates stuff. He is called a special paramecia solely because he possesses logia-esque abilities (or rather one ability).

Look at any other food based ability — they're all about creating stuff and not turning into food. Cracker, Perospero, Opera.
But he has the producer type and turning his own body mocchi *type.
We cant know for real right now what is the limited between awakened powers or not.
That is what making everyone show their opinions and discussing everything.
Let's say that luffy awakens and turn everything in to rubber, maybe he can just move around the rubbery floor like katakuri went throught the mocchi awakened floor.
For all we know pika could be a rock man (lol), and his power was just turn his body to rock. Maybe he awakened and that's why he could do what he did.






What makes you think that way? Katakuri has the very same kind of ability as any other "producer" type — he creates stuff. He is called a special paramecia solely because he possesses logia-esque abilities (or rather one ability).

Look at any other food based ability — they're all about creating stuff and not turning into food. Cracker, Perospero, Opera.
 

SoulAuron

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In context logias are always their element. It is one of the reasons ace kept burning the hats he made for oars. And it's not like that even is an ability that needs to be activated. Hit a logia hard enough without haki and they simply shift. Katakuri in that regard is not different from a logia. He can mold his body like a logia and things go through him like with a logia. Heck, his body can even be split into two like a logias provided haki doesn't cut him.

That said, the haki bit you mention about logia and hardening is not entirely accurate. It makes sense that you can imbue haki into things that have no physical substance so to speak (though smoker can use hardening). However there is no reason magma, ice or sand can't be imbued with haki the same as mochi.

What I am not 100% sure of is whether katakuri can produce mochi to be honest. Mochi is elastic and he can get as much as he wants from his surroundings via awakening. The most likely scenario of course is that he can produce as much mochi as he can like any logia could produce of their element however given how things play out I think there is a very small chance he might be faking that.

Anyways, the reason katakuri is a special paramecia and not a logia is that mochi is not a natural element. Logia literally translates to "nature system" and paramecia to "superhuman system". Katakuri is a paramecia because nature is a bitch to mochi.

i think there is more to it, you may be onto something with katakuti possibly not producing mochi and instead just using his awakening to transform stuff into more mochi for him to use, but even without that there is another fundamental diference between the mochi mochi no mi and logias, although you need to turn your body into your element so attacks pass through you if you are a logia, if your oponent hits your body directly after you have transformed into your element it will still not be hit, unless the attack had armament, but with katauris fruit even if the oponent doesnt have haki an attack that hits his mochi body will in fact hit him, what he does is to not just transform his body into mochi, but modify its shape at the last moment so the attacks dont actually hit the mochi, only glance it, that way he takes no damage, a logia would only need to do that agaisnst an oponent who has haki, like kuzan did with whitebeard, but katakuri needs to do this regardless of wether his oponents have haki or not, provided that the attack is actually capable of harming him that is.
this is actually another jojo reference i believe, some people probably know that katakuri had a jojo reference when he said what luffy would say before luffy said it, wich is a reference to joseph joestar, but this ability would be a reference to the pillar men, when they where awakened the protagonists tried to use hamon against them, hamon being the ability that lets people harm the pilar men in the first place, but one of the things the pilar men did was deform their body out of the way of the attcks, so the hamon infused attacks never even hit them, this is like that, but instead of the pillar men its katakuri, and instead of hamon its haki.
 

Beagopa

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In context logias are always their element. It is one of the reasons ace kept burning the hats he made for oars. And it's not like that even is an ability that needs to be activated. Hit a logia hard enough without haki and they simply shift. Katakuri in that regard is not different from a logia. He can mold his body like a logia and things go through him like with a logia. Heck, his body can even be split into two like a logias provided haki doesn't cut him.

That said, the haki bit you mention about logia and hardening is not entirely accurate. It makes sense that you can imbue haki into things that have no physical substance so to speak (though smoker can use hardening). However there is no reason magma, ice or sand can't be imbued with haki the same as mochi.

What I am not 100% sure of is whether katakuri can produce mochi to be honest. Mochi is elastic and he can get as much as he wants from his surroundings via awakening. The most likely scenario of course is that he can produce as much mochi as he can like any logia could produce of their element however given how things play out I think there is a very small chance he might be faking that.

Anyways, the reason katakuri is a special paramecia and not a logia is that mochi is not a natural element. Logia literally translates to "nature system" and paramecia to "superhuman system". Katakuri is a paramecia because nature is a bitch to mochi.
Didn’t he produce mochi ear plugs for his family? Out of thin air.
 

kkck

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Didn’t he produce mochi ear plugs for his family? Out of thin air.
Well, if katakuri literally produced the ear plugs out of thin air then he is absolutely outside a logia's norm as logias normally produce elements directly from their bodies. Kinda like how akainu produced magma during the war. My big of doubt is because we have not seen katakuri produce mochi quite like that so far.
 

Beagopa

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Well, if katakuri literally produced the ear plugs out of thin air then he is absolutely outside a logia's norm as logias normally produce elements directly from their bodies. Kinda like how akainu produced magma during the war. My big of doubt is because we have not seen katakuri produce mochi quite like that so far.
Well he can increase his mass as is evident by him creating new limbs or copying the elephant gun. Him producing limbs is kind of like producing his element from his body but I see your point.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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There are just 2 requirements to being a Logia:
  1. Be able to take on a form that isn't solid in order to be intangible.
  2. Be related to an aspect of physical nature.
Katakuri can take a form that's not solid, but he's not related to an aspect of physical nature, therefore, he's a Paramecia.

Producing is really not relevant in determining a Logia, but Katakuri does produce Mochi. If production outside of one's body is what qualifies one as being Logia, then it means Caribou who is mud/swamp isn't a Logia nor is Smoker as neither have produced their powers outside of their body.
 

iddo

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you guys all wrong! the reason katakuri is paramecia is because his awakening! maybe the writers stil wasn't idea for the awakening of the logia, so they make him paramecia to make him capable to use the awakening ability of paramecia. the awakening of paramecia is to transform what surronding their to the something they can create or do, and in katakuri's case, it's mochi, and this is why he is paramecia. because this is awakening ability, the awakening ability of the paramecia.
 

XXGenesis

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lol I m assuming anime fans have fina;;y hit this hurdle...Sorry us manga goers have debated this out already...He's a special Parmecia that's it....
 

Grandmaster Woro

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He's a Special Paramecia. It was changed from logia in the volume release.
yeah this. I remembered reading that katakuri is a logia from the weekly scan
 
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