Discussion Smoker Vs Ace, who wouldve really won?

[jamarTheDem]

To be honest I would argue that smoker today would get his ass kicked by ace. The anime is irrelevant here... Anyways, ace as far as we know showed his potential for haki as a kid, way earlier than luffy, he was a haki user (though we never saw the extent of that) and overall a pirate that earned a 550 mil bounty as one of WB's commanders. Smoker from 2 years ago was cannon fodder in the grand scheme of things, he was at best a mid tier ranked marine with a strong fruit and no real strength to speak of. Smoker barely got to do anything at the war. 2 years ago the only noteworthy thing about him was his fruit, we know that is not even remotely close to enough against NW pirates. Smoker today did not even do that well against law.

Ace should of had CoA and CoC too . It's not fair to show him having Kings Haki but not having normal Haki . Even though Oda made a mistake , right after Mariah was defeated Haki should of been introduced properly . By the time Marineford was showcased , Ace should of been showed using Haki....then again I'm not Oda . Still .

Im saying Ace having Haki at 7 (I think) is crazy but they were also a child in Skypia with Mantra(Haki) . I really think it's unfair . Ace blow up fleets that's amazing . So his bounty isn't a mistake . I just wished Oda developed Haki a little earlier .

 

[I Am Atomic]

Ace would totally smoke Smoker. Haha any body the pun?

But Enel would bang the shizz out of both of them. But that's a totally different topic. But Ace fire spirt bomb technique would give him the total advantage. Plus being with Whitebeart and all the experience he's gained, its safe to assume that he is the stronger one here.

Don't forget how strong Ace is even without a devil fruit. Beat the crap out of luffy every single time

---------- Post added at 08:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 AM ----------

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MabiEztLUB0[/video] have this link . I'm pretty sure every version will say the Same thing . Smoker say they are even .

But here: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/One-Piec...Vol-018-Ch-158--Docking-at-Alabasta?id=199628 before they fought Ace said he's stronger then Smoker , which was proven differently when they actually fought . Also Ace pretty much ran away but that's because he wanted to see his brother and ultimately wanted to kill Blackbeard .

---------- Post added at 07:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 PM ----------



I'm saying . You seen all the moves Ace showcased when he was fighting Blackbeard ? Crazy . Anybody with a normal body would get murdered .

How about when Ace used flame lance and put 2 holes in bb. Why didn't that beat bb? that should have got his lungs

---------- Post added at 08:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 AM ----------

How about him being head-head against Aokiji? When DD was ready to kill Caesar Aokiji showed up and DD retreated. So the same could be said if Ace showed up or similar (ace could burn his strings). That alone shows that Ace is stronger than Smoker.

 

[Super Sonic]

It would be a draw. Their DF abilities can't seriously hurt the other although Ace could have a slight lead due to the intense heat his DF can create.

As for Ace knowing haki...simply no. Ace's huge bounty was probably due to the Marines finding out his heritage (remember that Ace had his bounty increased WHILE being part of the Whitebeard Pirates). Ace was merely born with CoC. It doesn't mean he can use the other colors.

Blackbeard, on the other hand, does strongly imply to possess both colors of haki. He managed to sense the strength of haki Luffy has (in Mock Town and Impel Down). This is pure speculation but I doubt someone could be offered to be a Commander in Whitebeard's crew without having a DF or CoA.

Also, as to Kurouzu Blackbeard stated that the technique allows him to accurately find the essence of the DF fruit. In other words, his real body.

 

[KingOfNight]

As for Ace knowing haki...simply no. Ace's huge bounty was probably due to the Marines finding out his heritage (remember that Ace had his bounty increased WHILE being part of the Whitebeard Pirates). Ace was merely born with CoC. It doesn't mean he can use the other colors.

Heritage doesn't influence your bounty. Luffy is the perfect example of that. They never increased his bounty because of his heritage; only his accomplishments.

 

[Super Sonic]

Heritage doesn't influence your bounty. Luffy is the perfect example of that. They never increased his bounty because of his heritage; only his accomplishments.

As Jinbei said: once you get a bounty of 400 million, it would very rarely increase since there would be no point. At that point, you are just someone that need to be caught yes or yes.

One of the few good things Oda has done post-Water 7. It would be ridiculous to have bounties over 500 million, much less 1 billion.

Luffy was merely lucky in the sense that his actions were spoke more for his heritage. I seriously doubt Ace or any of the Super Rookies had anywhere near the type of journey the Straw Hats had (Luffy broke in and out of all three WG facilities).

 

[KingOfNight]

As Jinbei said: once you get a bounty of 400 million, it would very rarely increase since there would be no point. At that point, you are just someone that need to be caught yes or yes.

One of the few good things Oda has done post-Water 7. It would be ridiculous to have bounties over 500 million, much less 1 billion.

Luffy was merely lucky in the sense that his actions were spoke more for his heritage. I seriously doubt Ace or any of the Super Rookies had anywhere near the type of journey the Straw Hats had (Luffy broke in and out of all three WG facilities).

Well, I definitely agree that Oda should take it easy with the bounties.

Ace was going on all sorts of rampages. Even the WB pirates remarked that by saying "did they increase his bounty again?", which shows that he kept increasing it times and times again through his actions.

 

[amidaru312]

Hey also, keep in mind that Ace was always starting fights in the new world, and he even made crews surrender.

 

[M3J]

Ace, it seems. He was able to get away without a problem.

 

[Ricko]

It's not sure that Ace got armement Haki (even if I think he got it, maybe he was not good at it), Oda show us many time that Haki is not a "must have" to survive in new world.

- Luffy outmatched snake sister Haki user.
- Franky vaporised a door even Haki user can't damaged.
- The Funky brother resist to an Haki claded axe with only his body

Haki is undoubtly a plus, but I think that people can manage to became big player without.

Second argument about the bounty, 550.000 is great but also nothing, remember Oda said that Enel bounty should be 500.000b, it must be the base for a dangerous Logia haki user -
The threat of the mera mera fruit is great as he can burn city or a fleet in a second.

To the fight between Ace and Smoker, Ace win it easily !!!
During his fight against BB, the first attack of Ace induce that he should not work against Logia, what mean that Ace got in his sleeve Attack that work against logia with no Haki.

And just think, could a logia survive to his massive fireball ? You may not have physical form, what happen if all part of your body are blown miles away by a such big explosion ?

 

[I Am Atomic]

It's not sure that Ace got armement Haki (even if I think he got it, maybe he was not good at it), Oda show us many time that Haki is not a "must have" to survive in new world.

- Luffy outmatched snake sister Haki user.
- Franky vaporised a door even Haki user can't damaged.
- The Funky brother resist to an Haki claded axe with only his body

Haki is undoubtly a plus, but I think that people can manage to became big player without.

Second argument about the bounty, 550.000 is great but also nothing, remember Oda said that Enel bounty should be 500.000b, it must be the base for a dangerous Logia haki user -
The threat of the mera mera fruit is great as he can burn city or a fleet in a second.

To the fight between Ace and Smoker, Ace win it easily !!!
During his fight against BB, the first attack of Ace induce that he should not work against Logia, what mean that Ace got in his sleeve Attack that work against logia with no Haki.

And just think, could a logia survive to his massive fireball ? You may not have physical form, what happen if all part of your body are blown miles away by a such big explosion ?

You are right about the bounty and Ace was able to push BB to the edge which Smoker will never be able to do. Smoker is not that great if you think about it before or after TS. In the war he was not even that important. After TS he got defeated by Law, Vergo and DD in the same arc. Oda shows us how quickly strawhats are growing. First luffy couldnt do anything but now luffy can beat him blindfolded!

 

[kkck]

The new world is not the sort of place where you can make your way without haki. Ace got to get a 550 mil bounty and was one of the main crewmembers of the strongest crew in the world. His name alone inspired fear and his name alone was enough to trigger a war that has since engulfed the world in a new pirate age of unprecedented scale and violence. More importantly, haki is ultimately a generic power, specially among strong people. What particularly makes haki generic is that there is not an alternative to it, haki does not work that way. Haki is not a martial art nor something comparable to DFs. Its a generic power that either one needs. Haki cannot be replaced with something else, you either have it or not. Merely being a logia is not the sort of thing that gets you a name in the NW mainly because haki is generic. Its exactly what we saw with caribou.

We did not get a confirmation of ace using haki (it being mostly invisible and all) but we do know he was a conqueror haki user. What are the actual odds of ace making a name for himself in the NW without haki? I would argue they are astronomically low, specially within a crew like WBs. Its extremely likely ace was at least a competent haki user in the end. Its not the sort of thing someone like him could have done without. He would have ended up fighting numerous strong people through a fast paced career as a pirate without having haki, it is a more than significant disadvantage.

Smoker was a smoke user but ultimately his strength was not really more than those of the rookies. He was nowhere near even a VA back then (they are all haki users). That smoker, a captain and then a commodore could have had a shred of a chance against the likes of ace. Ace was at the time a world class pirate, someone who had already been offered a position as a shichibukai. Even if we were talking about smoker today he should have the sort end of the stick.

 

[Ricko]

I'm not agree with the requirement of Haki, we saw some big names who fighted without

- Magelan
- Iva
- Crocodile
- Moria
- Jimbei (but not sure because of his fight against ace)

They may not be top tier but they are strong veterans fighters who build their name without haki.
The most use of Haki is against Logia, but against any other oppenent pure fighting skill is enough.

Observation haki is useless if your opponent is way faster than you.
Armement Haki will not save you from Sand sand deshydrating power or Poison, or perhaps if you have world class haki skill.

But i'm agree with you, Haki is what made a top tier fighter, top tier.
But you can manage your way in New World without it, there is less logia than Haki user
And you don't need haki to beat haki.

 

[I Am Atomic]

I'm not agree with the requirement of Haki, we saw some big names who fighted without

- Magelan
- Iva
- Crocodile
- Moria
- Jimbei (but not sure because of his fight against ace)

They may not be top tier but they are strong veterans fighters who build their name without haki.
The most use of Haki is against Logia, but against any other oppenent pure fighting skill is enough.

Observation haki is useless if your opponent is way faster than you.
Armement Haki will not save you from Sand sand deshydrating power or Poison, or perhaps if you have world class haki skill.

But i'm agree with you, Haki is what made a top tier fighter, top tier.
But you can manage your way in New World without it, there is less logia than Haki user
And you don't need haki to beat haki.

Jimbei doesnt use haki. He controls the water in the body of the opponent and when he hits them it connects.

 

[suraj5898]

ace win

there is no need to ask this question

ace is/was on deferent lvl then smoker

 

[kkck]

I'm not agree with the requirement of Haki, we saw some big names who fighted without

- Magelan
- Iva
- Crocodile
- Moria
- Jimbei (but not sure because of his fight against ace)

They may not be top tier but they are strong veterans fighters who build their name without haki.
The most use of Haki is against Logia, but against any other oppenent pure fighting skill is enough.

Observation haki is useless if your opponent is way faster than you.
Armement Haki will not save you from Sand sand deshydrating power or Poison, or perhaps if you have world class haki skill.

But i'm agree with you, Haki is what made a top tier fighter, top tier.
But you can manage your way in New World without it, there is less logia than Haki user
And you don't need haki to beat haki.

I would argue Iva is likely a haki user. He is a top class fighter who was able to give kuma a run for his money. And sanji himself walked away from his hell training with haki. With ivankov being the strongest of the newkama apparently and a high ranking member of the revolutionaries it would be weird for him to not have haki. His position is actually comparable to that of a commander or a shichibukai. Moria is perhaps not a good example, they even killed him off because he was too weak for his position. Crocodile does seem to not have haki. With jinbe we do not have confirmation one way or the other although he to is in a position where it would make sense for him to have advanced haki. Magellan does not seem to have haki, that much is true. Although even that is weird considering level 6 prisoners do seem to have haki for the most part. Perhaps he would actually be able to make his way without it since touching him actually means death. On the other hand, it might be the reason why he ended up half dead by the end of the war.

Also, I find the idea of beating haki without haki weird. Granted we saw it with luffy and the boa sisters however that is not really a common scenario. Haki is something that seems to come naturally to people with the sufficient talent or experience. Luffy and ace had insane talent for it. Coby and ussop awakened it under their own circumstances. Overall people who naturally awaken it seem to be people who get to some level of strength, skill or experience. Its a natural result of power itself. Haki improves offense and defense significantly. Most people are not like the kuja pirates who train to have it but rather awaken it naturally as far as we can tell. If that is the common scenario, does it make sense for someone without haki to beat someone with it in a traditional scenario? If awakening haki requires talent and experience then someone having superior power without haki would imply him not having haki in spite of having presumably significantly more power and experience. Which is kinda what happened with luffy and the boa sisters although in most cases the situation would be far more extreme. Can you imagine the sheer amount of power required to beat a VA without haki?

 

[Ricko]

Haki user don't have to be beast in fighting, just see the little girl in Skypea she's noway talented or experienced.
And follower of Enel also got Haki but were all defeated by raw power.

It's sure that it's not anybody who can beat Vice-Admiral (hopefully !!!) and maybe only powerfull devil fruit allow it :
I think that even without haki Ace would beat easily any Vice-admiral with his skill combat and his powerfull fruit.
Bartolomeo stomp one without proof he got Haki.
Oz beat a giant VA with sheer power.

And VA are not the standard level of haki user, they are all experienced and skillfull fighter, they is also guy like Boo who even with Haki get stomped by Funky Brother combo.
The King of Prodence don't seem to have Haky too but his fist have the reputation to knock a Yankoo (it has too be proven ) but he may have defeated many other haki user.

What I want to say it's not because you got haki you will beat anyone who don't have it (even with Haki Usopp would loose in close fight against most opponent).
You can be a beast without it (fruit, geant size, special skill).
But If you are strong and you got haki, you have all the element to become a Top tier player in One piece Universe wich is unreachable without Haki.

 

[Starrk]

He was the second commander of the Whitebeard pirates. It would be ridiculous if he wasn't capable of using Haki. So what if he didn't use it in the war? A lot of people didn't.

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Portgas_D._Ace#Haki

He's still a freaking Logia who's mastered his DF. Not everyone needs Haki in the same respect as many Haki users don't need a powerful DF

On another note, do you guys think Smoker after the Timeskip (and Ace clearly being unable to get stronger) would make a difference?

 

[TheLuffySmile]

He's still a freaking Logia who's mastered his DF. Not everyone needs Haki in the same respect as many Haki users don't need a powerful DF

On another note, do you guys think Smoker after the Timeskip (and Ace clearly being unable to get stronger) would make a difference?

Hello and welcome to the forum!
To answer your question: Yes I do think it would have made a slight difference. Smoker is a lot stronger now than he was pre-timeskip. Ace IMO would still stomp him pretty hard because again IMO Ace>Law>Smoker.