Theory Special Devil Fruit

[Core D. Roy]

Beginning with Katakuri, we have the introduction of "Special Paramecia". In the mochi fruit's case, it's a base paramecia that shares aspects of logia.

I have suspicions that Luffy's devil fruit is a "Special Zoan". In the nika fruit's case, it's a base zoan that shares aspects of paramecia.

Do you think there might be a "Special Logia" that share's a trait with another fruit type? Have we already seen some "Special" class fruits before and it's going to be another haki/awakening debate? Is this an abandoned concept that Oda made as a last minute retcon to justify Katakuri's fruit and will never be touched on again? Or was the mochi fruit reveal laying the foundation for the nika fruit reveal in its own way, and setting up a third "Special" fruit classification?

 

[Nie Li]

Beginning with Katakuri, we have the introduction of "Special Paramecia". In the mochi fruit's case, it's a base paramecia that shares aspects of logia.

I have suspicions that Luffy's devil fruit is a "Special Zoan". In the nika fruit's case, it's a base zoan that shares aspects of paramecia.

Do you think there might be a "Special Logia" that share's a trait with another fruit type? Have we already seen some "Special" class fruits before and it's going to be another haki/awakening debate? Is this an abandoned concept that Oda made as a last minute retcon to justify Katakuri's fruit and will never be touched on again? Or was the mochi fruit reveal laying the foundation for the nika fruit reveal in its own way, and setting up a third "Special" fruit classification?

I don't intend to kill the topic but I don't think there's any mystery there.

There's nothing really special about Katakuri's fruit other than being superficially attributed to the wrong classification. It should be a logia because it entirely works like one, yet it's labeled a paramecia because it's not a "natural element". Hence he tagged the special thing just to not call it logia directly.

Luffy's fruit doesn't feel like a special zoan in the same sense. His awakening alone has a paramecia trait, unlike Katakuri that was apparently fully like a logia constantly.

For all we know, turning the environment into rubber is likely just "what a strong nika does naturally", like a dragon making clouds to flight or manipulating whirlwinds.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I don't intend to kill the topic but I don't think there's any mystery there.

There's nothing really special about Katakuri's fruit other than being superficially attributed to the wrong classification. It should be a logia because it entirely works like one, yet it's labeled a paramecia because it's not a "natural element". Hence he tagged the special thing just to not call it logia directly.

Luffy's fruit doesn't feel like a special zoan in the same sense. His awakening alone has a paramecia trait, unlike Katakuri that was apparently fully like a logia constantly.

For all we know, turning the environment into rubber is likely just "what a strong nika does naturally", like a dragon making clouds to flight or manipulating whirlwinds.

There's deffo an argument to be made about Katakuri's fruit being a woopsy-doodle retcon.

Luffy's fruit doesn't make sense because his base form is immediately altered as in a paramecia, and his transformation is only available after awakening. That might be attributed to just not knowing enough about mythical zoans, but so far we've seen no mythical zoan that 1) bestows a paramecia-like affect without any transformation and 2) requires awakening to do a usual zoan transformation.

 

[kkck]

I don't intend to kill the topic but I don't think there's any mystery there.

There's nothing really special about Katakuri's fruit other than being superficially attributed to the wrong classification. It should be a logia because it entirely works like one, yet it's labeled a paramecia because it's not a "natural element". Hence he tagged the special thing just to not call it logia directly.

Luffy's fruit doesn't feel like a special zoan in the same sense. His awakening alone has a paramecia trait, unlike Katakuri that was apparently fully like a logia constantly.

For all we know, turning the environment into rubber is likely just "what a strong nika does naturally", like a dragon making clouds to flight or manipulating whirlwinds.

This is wrong. Logia literally translates to "nature system". You'd need to change the terms in the classification system to be able to properly classify katakuri's fruit as a logia. Devil fruits are classified as "superhuman system", "animal system" and "nature system". There's simply no reasonable way in which katakuri's fruit could be classified as a "nature system" merely on the fact that mochi does not exist in nature (barring there being an island that rains mochi or something). This is why BB can be a logia in spite of lacking more conventional logia traits. He still ultimately transforms into a force of nature and has it's properties.

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Regarding luffy's fruit, I think the issue here is that luffy's gears 4 variants are being reframed as zoan transformations of sorts. Hence them looking like wisdom kings.

 

[catagon87]

Beginning with Katakuri, we have the introduction of "Special Paramecia". In the mochi fruit's case, it's a base paramecia that shares aspects of logia.

I have suspicions that Luffy's devil fruit is a "Special Zoan". In the nika fruit's case, it's a base zoan that shares aspects of paramecia.

Do you think there might be a "Special Logia" that share's a trait with another fruit type? Have we already seen some "Special" class fruits before and it's going to be another haki/awakening debate? Is this an abandoned concept that Oda made as a last minute retcon to justify Katakuri's fruit and will never be touched on again? Or was the mochi fruit reveal laying the foundation for the nika fruit reveal in its own way, and setting up a third "Special" fruit classification?

Darkness seems like a special candidate. Doesn't let things pass through like other Logia.

--- Double Post Merged, May 19, 2022, Original Post Date: May 19, 2022 ---

I don't intend to kill the topic but I don't think there's any mystery there.

There's nothing really special about Katakuri's fruit other than being superficially attributed to the wrong classification. It should be a logia because it entirely works like one, yet it's labeled a paramecia because it's not a "natural element". Hence he tagged the special thing just to not call it logia directly.

I think there's a lot of Logia that aren't really naturally recurring elements. Smoke, and swamps, for instance, aren't really elements. Also, Caesar is "gas", but that's not really an element. There's a lot of different kinds of gas, and he's just some generic gas man? His ability is weird because it seems to be the ability to manipulate gas while also being.. random gas. I never really understood why Oda went the special paramecia route with Katakuri, because I found the unique qualifier for Logia to be that they modify the user's body to become a specific thing (where a lot of the paramecia abilities modify specific parts like the legs for Bellamy, or grant unique abilities).

 

[Core D. Roy]

Darkness seems like a special candidate. Doesn't let things pass through like other Logia.

--- Double Post Merged, May 19, 2022, Original Post Date: May 19, 2022 ---

I think there's a lot of Logia that aren't really naturally recurring elements. Smoke, and swamps, for instance, aren't really elements. Also, Caesar is "gas", but that's not really an element. There's a lot of different kinds of gas, and he's just some generic gas man? His ability is weird because it seems to be the ability to manipulate gas while also being.. random gas. I never really understood why Oda went the special paramecia route with Katakuri, because I found the unique qualifier for Logia to be that they modify the user's body to become a specific thing (where a lot of the paramecia abilities modify specific parts like the legs for Bellamy, or grant unique abilities).

Darkness is indeed pretty weird, but I do kinda subscribe to the theory that Blackbeard is tangible because of the presence of light, much like Croc is when wet.

Eh... "naturally occurring" is a better description of logia. If you get minute about the definition of what is an "element" basically none of them make sense at all. Also all of them are specifically "flowing" materials. I think Oda duffed up with Katakuri because he originally had him as a logia before realizing it'd be silly to have mochi in the category that is only "naturally occurring" things, but by that point he had already shown Katakuri doing things that paramecia can't really do. His shapeshifting to avoid attacks with his observation haki was identical to the admirals at Marineford doing the same thing, and he could regrow his arm that he shoots out for Grilled Mochi.

 

[john ellis]

@zetsu banned i think thats just typical of mythical zoan's having an addtional paramecia like power. Marco can heal, yamato and kaido can breath fire and ice. the kyubi fruit can shapeshift like the clone-clone fruit. Sengoku has shockwabes similar to whitebeard's fruit to a lesser extend although. Like it's just normal for mythical zoans to be broken with zoan+paramecia like abillties.

like mythical zoans>logia's for reasons

 

[Core D. Roy]

@zetsu banned i think thats just typical of mythical zoan's having an addtional paramecia like power. Marco can heal, yamato and kaido can breath fire and ice. the kyubi fruit can shapeshift like the clone-clone fruit. Sengoku has shockwabes similar to whitebeard's fruit to a lesser extend although. Like it's just normal for mythical zoans to be broken with zoan+paramecia like abillties.

like mythical zoans>logia's for reasons

None of them have shown passive paramecia-specific abilities in their base form though. In fact none of them show their mythical abilities in their base form, at least not Yamato, Kaidou, and Sengoku. I can't recall if I've ever seen Marco regenerate when not actively using his transformation. Katarina Devon has shapeshifted in her base form though, so you're right on that one. It is a paramecia-like affect, but it needs to be activated. Luffy's is bizarre because before transformation into his mythical state, he has a normal paramecia ability at all times.

 

[Rmstorm]

None of them have shown passive paramecia-specific abilities in their base form though. In fact none of them show their mythical abilities in their base form, at least not Yamato, Kaidou, and Sengoku. I can't recall if I've ever seen Marco regenerate when not actively using his transformation. Katarina Devon has shapeshifted in her base form though, so you're right on that one. It is a paramecia-like affect, but it needs to be activated. Luffy's is bizarre because before transformation into his mythical state, he has a normal paramecia ability at all times.

Luffy is a human fruit type, which means he would not change in its unawakened state, he would just become a rubber normal human which he was. Oda said a human eating a human frui, just becomes enlightened.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

What about Tobago's fruit? The egg chicken dude. Seems special to me. I think there are just a lot of fruits that has more than one ability. It is like saying mythical zoans have logia powers because they can control different element(s). My question is, are there actually df tiers? Like Akainu's magma can burn Ace's fire (in reality I think fire can burn hotter than magma? Someone provide more info here) and Katakuri's was originally the stronger version of rubber and then now we find out that Luffy's Rubber attribute is from his Nika powers. Maybe that was just the community saying that and not actually defined in the manga. I forget but to be honest I really think Kaido is right somewhat in the fact that Haki reigns supreme and relying on your df solely like Moriah does seems like not the best idea. It is not a bad idea but developing your haki is very important and your df is only as good as the user's creativity and prowess.

This topic also gives me the thought what if someone like Sanji or King who can control heat but then they eat Aokiji's fruit lol... or if Jimbe eats the magma fruit but uses fishman karate to manipulate water? Sorry I guess this is a different topic but what I am getting at is, what if it is the user who makes the df special like how luffy thought the snot dude on Dofalmingo's crew was a logia but he just be shifting his body around and not actually a logia.

 

[kkck]

What about Tobago's fruit? The egg chicken dude. Seems special to me. I think there are just a lot of fruits that has more than one ability. It is like saying mythical zoans have logia powers because they can control different element(s). My question is, are there actually df tiers? Like Akainu's magma can burn Ace's fire (in reality I think fire can burn hotter than magma? Someone provide more info here) and Katakuri's was originally the stronger version of rubber and then now we find out that Luffy's Rubber attribute is from his Nika powers. Maybe that was just the community saying that and not actually defined in the manga. I forget but to be honest I really think Kaido is right somewhat in the fact that Haki reigns supreme and relying on your df solely like Moriah does seems like not the best idea. It is not a bad idea but developing your haki is very important and your df is only as good as the user's creativity and prowess.

This topic also gives me the thought what if someone like Sanji or King who can control heat but then they eat Aokiji's fruit lol... or if Jimbe eats the magma fruit but uses fishman karate to manipulate water? Sorry I guess this is a different topic but what I am getting at is, what if it is the user who makes the df special like how luffy thought the snot dude on Dofalmingo's crew was a logia but he just be shifting his body around and not actually a logia.

The wiki has a source that says it's zoan. It's definitely a weird fruit that pushes the boundaries of classification. Right of the bat it's weird to classify an egg as an animal. but it does end up transforming an user into an animal.

Katakuri's fruit cannot plausibly have a connection to luffy's. Katakuri transforms his body into mochi which has zero connection to rubber. And even if luffy has a zoan fruit his body is almost definitely made out of actual rubber. Evidenced by how he does not conduct electricity.

I would maintain my point that fruit classifications are mostly self explanatory here, though in some cases we might lack context. The translation for fruit types go like this:

Paramecia: Superhuman system.
Zoan: Animal system

1. Ancient zoan: Animal system ancient species
2. Mythical zoan: Animal system mythical species

Logia: Nature system


So zoans as animal systems are fruits that allow you to transform into animals. Logia as nature systems are fruits that allow you to transform into things that exist in nature. I think the definition would fit a bit more if its something like transform and generate something that exists in nature. Paramecia is still a category that pretty much gets stuff that does not fit into the other categories or otherwise grant you superhuman traits.

Regarding logia I would make the point that understanding the fruit as I mention explains BB's ability. Because the definition doesn't require logias to be intangible. It means that the generic abilities that we see from logia are circumstantial rather than universal. Fire or smoke are intangible because those are properties those have. Darkness, gravity, affords no such advantage.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Regarding logia I would make the point that understanding the fruit as I mention explains BB's ability. Because the definition doesn't require logias to be intangible. It means that the generic abilities that we see from logia are circumstantial rather than universal. Fire or smoke are intangible because those are properties those have. Darkness, gravity, affords no such advantage.

Um... Darkness is about as intangible as it gets. Even light is "more tangible" than darkness.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Darkness seems like a special candidate. Doesn't let things pass through like other Logia.

Blackbeard never said it doesn't let things pass through.

What he said is it was useless being intangible because Black Holes absorb everything from sound to pain, so changing to an ethereal form has no purpose since he will still incur damage either way.

--- Double Post Merged, May 22, 2022, Original Post Date: May 22, 2022 ---

I have suspicions that Luffy's devil fruit is a "Special Zoan". In the nika fruit's case, it's a base zoan that shares aspects of paramecia.

Luffy's fruit is simply a mythical Zoan fruit like Sengoku's.

1. Buddha is a god.
2. Nika is a god.

Both are just Hito Hito no Mi Mythical Zoan types.

There's no need for t he classification of Special Zoan since it's simply the attributes of the mythical being.
Even Marco who is a Mythical Zoan also has features that shares aspect with Paramecia such as healing, doesn't make him a special Zoan with your reasoning.
In fact, the term "Mythical" pretty much implies it's a "Special" Zoan type to begin with.

He is a Mythical Zoan, Mythical implying he has powers that are mythical and legendary.
Looks like you're overthinking and overcomplicating things.

1. If a fruit allows you to transform into a person or creature - Zoan.
2. If a fruit allows you to transform into things from nature that are intangible - Logia.
3. If your fruit doesn't fit into the above categories... Paramecia.

Seems pretty straight forward.

Do you think there might be a "Special Logia" that share's a trait with another fruit type?

There shouldn't be anything such as Special Logia, Logia is just something from Nature that's intangible.
Air, Sand, Magma, Fire, Ice.

If Blackbeard isn't a "Special Logia" as he is pretty much the most unique of the nature types, don't think there really is a basis for Special Logia to begin with. Closest thing to a Logia with odd qualities is Katakuri who ended up being a Special Paramecia.