Predictions [Speculation] How the Tournament Arc Could Actually be Exciting

[Cinera]

This is but a speculation on a way the tournament might play out. I don't really endorse this speculation as a prediction.

After Baam absorbed White's power, SIU said:

Season 3 Episode 95 Blog Post

"This Nest Arc is... I think of this arc as... one where it progresses a bit more bit by bit for the sake of the conflict with the main forces...

Each wall has different enemies and different forces at play, Baam needs to level up quicker, and as the person that has to make that progression happen, this arc hurts my head, as well as make things difficult for my mentally and physically in a lot of ways.

However, if I don't do this, I do wonder if I will be able to cover the 10 Families or the Princesses of Zahard... so this is a difficult question."

Quite nicely, the tournament arc seems to be set up as the next major arc to follow the Nest.

Lilial tells Baam to join the competition and says she'll inform Traumerei:

Spoiler

Jinsung later says that even if Lilial was a Princess, she can't hold a candle to Baam:

Spoiler

And Jinsung too wants Baam to participate in the tournament:

Spoiler

And suggests that by winning the competition Baam might be able to earn his freedom:

Spoiler

Baam too reflects on this and concurs:

Spoiler

Surely, a battle of such deep significance — for freedom and the right to self-determination — to our protagonist wouldn't be a walk in the park, right? Surely, there would be some actual conflict and tension? Some actual struggle for Baam to earn his autonomy?

Jinsung has already stressed that no Regular — not even Princesses — can pose a challenge to Baam. If Baam is to have any tension if he participates in the tournament, he will need to fight against (High) Rankers.

Perhaps female High Rankers from the Great Families and Zahard Family decide to partake in this tournament? They are the only women capable of giving Baam a challenge.
(In this case, SIU's comments in S3 E95's blog post would have been lampshading their participation).


And the prize of the Irregular is something tantalising enough to get them interested. It was stressed throughout the Nest that many among the powerful in the Tower wanted to get their hands on the Irregular.

By Asensio:

Spoiler

By Maschenny:

Spoiler

By Traumerei:

Spoiler

So, we know that the most powerful people in the Tower — including the Family Leaders themselves — are interested in the Irregular. Hell, Traumerei wants to place Baam as his successor, giving him a position just below the 10 Family Leaders:

Spoiler

For a battle with the Irregular at stake — and moreover one in which the Irregular himself would be participating — is it not worth pulling out all their shots? Sending in their very best contestants? Traumerei saw Baam easily destroy Perseus' reins and knows that he has Leviathan. He should have an idea of what Baam is capable of.

If Baam participates in the tournament he should know that someone of Lilial's calibre is woefully insufficient. If he truly wants to take Baam for himself, he should sent the most capable women of Lo Po Bia to participate.






@King Dryst, @Jubei_Kibagami, @lazybum, @lianecel, @kkck.

 

[lazybum]

I'll repeat my take :

There will be 2 separate tournaments, one tournament where the winner is gonna be Baam's marriage partner, this would be where Lilial will participate in. Another tournament is I believe where it will determine the fate of Baam, whom will participate of course. This tournament is where groups who are concerned with Baam, including those who want to kill him and those who want to protect him, will be able to duke it out. Baam can earn his freedom this way (probably with conditions like leaving FUG), gets killed or be married to the winner of the other tournament. The FHs know Baam's capabilities, they will surely send very strong opponents, like Hagipherione for example.

 

[Cinera]

This is but a speculation on a way the tournament might play out. I don't really endorse this speculation as a prediction.

After Baam absorbed White's power, SIU said:

Season 3 Episode 95 Blog Post


Quite nicely, the tournament arc seems to be set up as the next major arc to follow the Nest.

Lilial tells Baam to join the competition and says she'll inform Traumerei:

Spoiler

Jinsung later says that even if Lilial was a Princess, she can't hold a candle to Baam:

Spoiler

And Jinsung too wants Baam to participate in the tournament:

Spoiler

And suggests that by winning the competition Baam might be able to earn his freedom:

Spoiler

Baam too reflects on this and concurs:

Spoiler

Surely, a battle of such deep significance — for freedom and the right to self-determination — to our protagonist wouldn't be a walk in the park, right? Surely, there would be some actual conflict and tension? Some actual struggle for Baam to earn his autonomy?

Jinsung has already stressed that no Regular — not even Princesses — can pose a challenge to Baam. If Baam is to have any tension if he participates in the tournament, he will need to fight against (High) Rankers.

Perhaps female High Rankers from the Great Families and Zahard Family decide to partake in this tournament? They are the only women capable of giving Baam a challenge.
(In this case, SIU's comments in S3 E95's blog post would have been lampshading their participation).


And the prize of the Irregular is something tantalising enough to get them interested. It was stressed throughout the Nest that many among the powerful in the Tower wanted to get their hands on the Irregular.

By Asensio:

Spoiler

By Maschenny:

Spoiler

By Traumerei:

Spoiler

So, we know that the most powerful people in the Tower — including the Family Leaders themselves — are interested in the Irregular. Hell, Traumerei wants to place Baam as his successor, giving him a position just below the 10 Family Leaders:

Spoiler

For a battle with the Irregular at stake — and moreover one in which the Irregular himself would be participating — is it not worth pulling out all their shots? Sending in their very best contestants? Traumerei saw Baam easily destroy Perseus' reins and knows that he has Leviathan. He should have an idea of what Baam is capable of.

If Baam participates in the tournament he should know that someone of Lilial's calibre is woefully insufficient. If he truly wants to take Baam for himself, he should sent the most capable women of Lo Po Bia to participate.






@King Dryst, @Jubei_Kibagami, @lazybum, @lianecel, @kkck.

The main arguments against (High) Rankers participating in the tournament are:

1. SIU suggested the Lo Po Bia Twins were going to be really important to a future arc:
Season 2 Chapter 212 Blog Post

Lilial and Shilial hold the key to one of the two big upcoming story arcs so they appeared ahead of the power curve.

The specifics will be revealed in the later stories.

The events in the aftermath of the Nest suggest that the forthcoming tournament may be said future arc. It's hard for Lilial/Shilial to hold the key if they are overshadowed during the Tournament by the presence of (High) Rankers, especially Ranker Princesses.


2. More generally, the tournament was an opportunity for Regulars to get involved and become important again. We are already seeing signs of this;

• Reintroduction of the Lo Po Bia Twins
• Reintroduction of Rachel (and her crew)
• Reintroduction of Endorsi (and Anaak)
  • Endorsi should receive the news of the upcoming tournament
• Foundations for AA and Rachel drama

The Regulars will get shafted really badly if the tournament is dominated by more High Ranker fights.

 

[kkck]

Realistically speaking only people pretty high up the pecking order could pose a threat to bam in direct combat That said, there are still people among tower residents that would ultimately foderize bam as an afterthought.

On the regular front I don't rule out the possibility of someone being a threat to bam but it would take special regulars, other irregulars or substantial BS. Maybe skills that ignore power levels. Not really sure of how the tournament would manage to adjust for power levels in case you have both rankers and regulars competing. I think it's possible that the tournament has some manner of handicap system or perhaps it won't be just straight fights.

As for the arcs overall importance, I think there is a bit that has been overlooked in the discussion. Traumerei made the point that he will send invitations to every family head so that they can send their family's representative to participate. Basically, every single family and presumably zahard himself will have a role in the tournament. An event where the 11 most powerful figures in the tower have a hand in. That alone makes this an event which dwarfs the nest war in significance and importance. Of course, it's possible some families sit this one out.

Another important plot point... gustang's pick for the tournament. Imagine if he sends rachel...

 

[Shadowlord123]

Regardless of what happens, I believe the next chapters are going to be of vital importance to establish the form this arc takes. Whether Baam is going to participate or not, whether (High) Rankers will participate or not, and the type of rules and dynamics this tournament will follow. All of this will dictate whether this arc can shape up to be something really interesting and exciting, or on the contrary, dumb garbage. So far, the arc hasn't had a good start for me, but I acknowledge it has some potential. It all depends on what SIU chooses to do and my guess is that we'll find the answer very soon, probably in the next or the next few chapters.

 

[King Dryst]

I don't know about High Rankers (especially of the Zahard's Princess variety). Like, they have some degree of autonomy that the likes of Lilial don't. Stepping down from that position to marry Baam would be a downgrade in prestige for someone like Maschenny or Hagipherione.

I do think (if Baam is allowed to compete, which has not been set in stone as we've yet to see Traumerei consent to it) that we will have some variety of Rankers thrown into the mix. And Baam will take it upon himself to protect the Regular girls that have gotten drawn in, because this whole affair is ultimately his fault. Having to do that provides Baam enough of a 'handicap' to keep things interesting. And it's the kind of thing that would make the girls involved fall for him, if that's something SIU cares about doing. That still shafts the Regular girls into being nothing but distressed damsels for Baam, and is a scenario that would be best avoided. The ideal will still be that Traumerei shuts down the idea of Baam participating. It just makes no sense.

I also think that he might be joining Lo Po Bia of his own accord regardless, because it will get back to him that Po Bidau are mistreating Koon and his other friends. He wins the right to choose, and he chooses violence. Make the devil's deal with Traumerei, agree to wed Lilial and obliterate the Ark of Knowledge together. But all of this is just spitballing right now, as we're but two chapters into the new arc.

Another important plot point... gustang's pick for the tournament. Imagine if he sends rachel...

Fair chance he gets excluded, don't you think? The whole rebellion and declaration of war against the Empire puts him on everyone's shit list.

 

[kkck]

Fair chance he gets excluded, don't you think? The whole rebellion and declaration of war against the Empire puts him on everyone's shit list.

Possibly? But we have the arc being set up and rachel setting her sights on aguero. The more natural direction for it all to come together so to speak is have the po bidao also participate. Ultimately both gustang and traumerei regard ever their own families as inherently worthless. Also, traumerei is the one setting this up, not the empire. I don't think he necessarily has anything against gustang.

 

[King Dryst]

Also, traumerei is the one setting this up, not the empire. I don't think he necessarily has anything against gustang.

Aside from the fact that their two Families are directly at war and allowing Gustang to get the Irregular would be the dumbest gambit ever?

 

[kkck]

Aside from the fact that their two Families are directly at war and allowing Gustang to get the Irregular would be the dumbest gambit ever?

Are you forgetting traumerei is a god damn weirdo who aims to please everyone in his own self serving manner? I stress:

1.- Traumerei does believe his family is composed of people with any intrinsic worth. Gustang does not either. It's hard to get a grasp on the full range of gustang's perspective but traumerei probably sees this as a sort of twisted game.
2.- Traumerei was barely distressed by learning gustang was at his base. Heck, returning to his family's battleship was not even his top priority after learning it. Even in that extreme scenario he was all "get bam and then lets go back home".
3.- Even now he isn't exactly distressed about the fact that he ended up at lilial's ship rather than his base where gustang was.

 

[Aliblack]

They won't definitely send high-ranker princesses. Even elders from FUG don't believe in Bam yet and Jinsung's words imply that. There's no way they will send those top-rank princesses for someone like Bam. What's more, looks like the focus is going to be on regular princesses. If they get introduced, regulars will be sidetracked. Another point is that Lilial is going to be surprised. It would be in opposition to this set-up to allow some princess rankers to enter the competition.

Rankers might be allowed to enter the competition under some conditions but I don't see any high-ranker princesses.

And Baam will take it upon himself to protect the Regular girls that have gotten drawn in, because this whole affair is ultimately his fault.

To be fair, it's not his fault. You can blame someone for something they were responsible for. The idea of marriage was forced upon him. Even the idea of the competition was Jinsung's. Yes, he might feel bad about it but that's because he's always like that. You might like to call him stupid.

Fair chance he gets excluded, don't you think? The whole rebellion and declaration of war against the Empire puts him on everyone's shit list.

Those hostages should come of use. I don't see any use for them for now. Rey's letting everyone participate in the competition without gaining anything in return. It would be a good deal for him to accept Gustang's candidate in return for freeing his rankers. Of course, it is not definite.

 

[Wha]

I already said in the chapter discussion what i think about all of this.


But if i have to think of a scenario that might not be a shit show, it can't have Regulars and Bam / High Rankers inside of it.
If Regulars participate, they should handle this business among themselfes.
It would also be a chance to introduce the likes of Yihwa again

Now, what to do with Bam in the meantime?
Since it looks like it is supposed to be a competition among the Families, that would be a great opportunity to introduce at least a few of the remaining heads, being there like VIP's, or some high ranking representatives of them.

We could finally learn more of them and their agendas and while the Regulars fight for Bam, he is involved in the politics of the heads and/or tries to get another thorn fragment/ tries to escape/.....

 

[Aliblack]

I already said in the chapter discussion what i think about all of this.


But if i have to think of a scenario that might not be a shit show, it can't have Regulars and Bam / High Rankers inside of it.
If Regulars participate, they should handle this business among themselfes.
It would also be a chance to introduce the likes of Yihwa again

Now, what to do with Bam in the meantime?
Since it looks like it is supposed to be a competition among the Families, that would be a great opportunity to introduce at least a few of the remaining heads, being there like VIP's, or some high ranking representatives of them.

We could finally learn more of them and their agendas and while the Regulars fight for Bam, he is involved in the politics of the heads and/or tries to get another thorn fragment/ tries to escape/.....

Even if we assumed high rankers participate in a parallel match, there would be another problem. The winner of that match should compete with the regular winner. How is that possible? The only way I can think of is a brain game. And that's highly unlikely.

 

[Demonspeed]

This is ToG. There will be games which aren't strictly combat related, probably team events even. The Workshop arc had many.

I think there will be Rankers because we are at a point where it's common to see them, but I am not expecting a tons. Still, if they do I am expecting some restrictions a bit like Quant in S1.

And even if there are tons of Rankers I think the focus will mostly be on the Regulars.

 

[King Dryst]

To be fair, it's not his fault. You can blame someone for something they were responsible for. The idea of marriage was forced upon him. Even the idea of the competition was Jinsung's. Yes, he might feel bad about it but that's because he's always like that. You might like to call him stupid.

It is, in the sense that he swallowed the bait and went to the Nest. Whatever consequences result from that decision land on his doorstep.

 

[Fish009]

Im confused, if Lillia gonna participate, does that mean only regulars gonna be in?
LPB FH make it seems that every family/powerhouses will be sending their people in, wouldn't they be sending in rankers/hr?
If rankers/hr can participate, kinda thick skin for a regular princess to think she can join right?

Either way, im excited. Workshop battle is one of my fav, i hope SIU design some good plot for this, instead of the dogshit ruckus that we had ben seeing the past few arc

I hate it when a game was disturbed, like why bother writing the rules if youre just gonna throw them a way 3 chaps in

 

[King Dryst]

Im confused, if Lillia gonna participate, does that mean only regulars gonna be in?
LPB FH make it seems that every family/powerhouses will be sending their people in, wouldn't they be sending in rankers/hr?
If rankers/hr can participate, kinda thick skin for a regular princess to think she can join right?

Baam presents a conundrum with the logic. It really should be a Regulars only affair, but that makes it just a neg diff steamroll for Baam if he enters.

Either he should be excluded, or his part in the competition should be something a bit different. It's probably going to be a game anyway. so SIU can figure out a role for Baam that doesn't let him just crush everything. Like imagine pitting him against the field a game of tag where Baam is the 'it', but he can only dodge or defend to avoid being caught. No hitting back at the contestants trying to pin him down to win. That's just a lame and basic idea. SIU will come up with something better.

 

[Fish009]

Baam presents a conundrum with the logic. It really should be a Regulars only affair, but that makes it just a neg diff steamroll for Baam if he enters.

Either he should be excluded, or his part in the competition should be something a bit different. It's probably going to be a game anyway. so SIU can figure out a role for Baam that doesn't let him just crush everything. Like imagine pitting him against the field a game of tag where Baam is the 'it', but he can only dodge or defend to avoid being caught. No hitting back at the contestants trying to pin him down to win. That's just a lame and basic idea. SIU will come up with something better.

i like it
Baam vs regular has no tension at all, and seeing him not one shotting everything is furiating
We might actually get a chance for the side characters to progress a bit
(progress, not powerups, please no more bs powerups just to keep them “relevant”)

 

[Fiodor Pavlovich K]

Realistically speaking only people pretty high up the pecking order could pose a threat to bam in direct combat

someone didn't get the nerf memo

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 29, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 29, 2022 ---

Even elders from FUG don't believe in Bam yet and Jinsung's words imply that.

Which is bizarre really

There's no way they will send those top-rank princesses for someone like Bam. What's more, looks like the focus is going to be on regular princesses. If they get introduced, regulars will be sidetracked. Another point is that Lilial is going to be surprised. It would be in opposition to this set-up to allow some princess rankers to enter the competition.

Rankers might be allowed to enter the completion under some conditions but I don't see any high-ranker princesses.

I feel like allowing HR or rankers to participate is the community idea that to fix the mess SIU did, but it won't work as well. It is what is is. Most likely SIU will make a reason Baam can't win and he will pretend to be weak here.

IMHO the solution is simply make this tournament something secondary within the arc. letting the story develop somewhere else.

 

[sazon]

I particularly can't see a tournament with regulars and rankers here. No matter how many games are placed, if it's not a game of luck, the rankers will always have the upper hand.

Strength, speed, shinsoo control, experience (maybe).

Baam participating doesn't make any sense, in his place I would try to cause chaos and escape in the middle, but it seems like there are no neurons when AA, Hwa Ryun or Karaka are not present.

If Baam enters motivated to "be free" in this tournament (which for me is a shitty logic, because from the beginning Rei never even planned to leave him to another family, let alone free) he will have to prove his strength and go however, if SIU wants any threat, at least bring someone in the same category as Pudidy or Kallavan.

 

[Aliblack]

It is, in the sense that he swallowed the bait and went to the Nest. Whatever consequences result from that decision land on his doorstep.

It's not. When Bam was fighting White he was responsible for his comrades' lives, and when he was refusing Rey's proposal, he could be held responsible, as well. But in this case, this is only Traumerei's fault and his moral responsibility.

Moral responsibility should be distinguished from causal responsibility. You might do something and lead to something horrible but this is not enough to make you morally responsible. He might be causally responsible for this marriage but not morally responsible.