Discussion Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

[Hardy]

Yukimura's speed should be higher, he was able to adjust to TnMk shots, at least 4 or 3,5.

Speed isn't the only factor required to return TnMk shots. Nothing suggests that he's faster than Tezuka.

No 3rd Year in Rikkai can be at a 2,5 in Power I think.
All at 3 at least.

Remember Yagyuu, Niou, Marui and Jackal, dont remember with Kirihara, wear power wrists weights.
Remember Marui and Jackal were hitting back Momoshiro's shots, who by the Regional Finals was established as a guy who could hit powerful shots.

---------- Post added at 03:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 PM ----------

Sanada at 4,5 for Technique. FuuRinKaZanRai is amazing. It destroys nearly every MSer. There are seriously few who can last against it.
I dont think he is the same as Marui.

---------- Post added at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

Fuji Shusuke needs a 4 for Mental. He cant be at 3,5.
He is a genius. He is just seemingly pathetic as a character right now in SPoT.
I believe his Mental is slightly above Shiraishi's its just that Shiraishi is physically superior to him so Shiraishi was able to break him.

Just because they can return Momo's shots doesn't mean they are above the average in power. Fuji has 2,5 in power (average) and he would beat Momo any day.

Sanada's tech raised!

Fuji mental reaised too, I wasn't sure about his stats but no one mencioned it.
Should I raise Oshitari's mental too?

 

[Ninomiya]

Speed isn't the only factor required to return TnMk shots. Nothing suggests that he's faster than Tezuka.

You ever see Tezuka chase after a shot? No.
You see Yukimura chase after what was practically two balls far away from each other within one point? Yes.

Just because they can return Momo's shots doesn't mean they are above the average in power. Fuji has 2,5 in power (average) and he would beat Momo any day.

In this series, Superior Technique > Power. I dont really see marui and Jackal as guys with superior technique. They must have some kind of strength to be returning Momo's shots with freaking wrist weights on. With ease aswell as they hammered Kaidoh/Momo 6-1.

Fuji mental reaised too, I wasn't sure about his stats but no one mencioned it.
Should I raise Oshitari's mental too?

I would like you to, but I question Momoshiro's Mental stat who he shut down.

Oshitari Yushi needs another match. Awesome character from what we were shown.

 

[LetalHawk]

We don't know, but Tezuka's faster because of tenimuhou (aura). Yukimura is fast without using any aura, he could be way faster than he is if he achieved one. I don't think Tezuka, without aura, is faster than Yuki. Yuki perfectly returned Rai that is also a fast shot, Tezuka couldn't.

 

[Kaoz]

I dont really see marui and Jackal as guys with superior technique.

Given how precise the Myougi shots are, I would say Marui's Technique is quite good.

Even with good technique, you need power too to return strong shots, or else we wouldn't always get those power player matches.

 

[Ninomiya]

Given how precise the Myougi shots are, I would say Marui's Technique is quite good.

Even with good technique, you need power too to return strong shots, or else we wouldn't always get those power player matches.

Good point on technique. Marui's technique must be great. I dont remember why he needs to eat cake though. I think his stamina is low or something.
And yeah, he and Jackal definetely have some kind of power.

Niou's power stat is like the same as Fuji's or possibly less though. Shiraishi!Niou did a smash that Fuji was able to stop with Higuma Otoshi. So his Strength cant be higher than Fuji's.

 

[Kaoz]

Good point on technique. Marui's technique must be great. I dont remember why he needs to eat cake though. I think his stamina is low or something.
And yeah, he and Jackal definetely have some kind of power.

The cake thing was only in the anime iirc, and I don't believe it was mentioned in the databooks or PPs either (I might be wrong about that one though, I don't remember his entries very well).

Niou's power stat is like the same as Fuji's or possibly less though. Shiraishi!Niou did a smash that Fuji was able to stop with Higuma Otoshi. So his Strength cant be higher than Fuji's.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. While I agree that power is a factor in returning shots, I'd also say that there is some leeway. So for example, even though Krauser's power is higher than Atobe's, Atobe should still be able to return Krauser's shots. It's hard to say how large the gap has to be for someone to get overpowered, but I'd say maybe 2 points or so.

Also that's when talking about their nationals versions, since I think it's fair to say that Fuji's power isn't greater than Atobe's, whereas Niou's seems to be (see when he broke through Ochi/Mouri's defense where Atobe wasn't able to; not to say it's much higher since I believe it was mostly the surprise factor, but a little at least).

 

[Ninomiya]

Also that's when talking about their nationals versions, since I think it's fair to say that Fuji's power isn't greater than Atobe's, whereas Niou's seems to be (see when he broke through Ochi/Mouri's defense where Atobe wasn't able to; not to say it's much higher since I believe it was mostly the surprise factor, but a little at least).

I guess your right here. Nationals!Niou was weaker than Fuji while Current Niou is a lot stronger.

---------- Post added at 12:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 PM ----------

The cake thing was only in the anime iirc, and I don't believe it was mentioned in the databooks or PPs either (I might be wrong about that one though, I don't remember his entries very well).

Makes sense. I watched the Rikkai arc up to Singles 3 then was told to stop and switch to Manga many years ago.
So I saw the Marui/Jackal anime version where it was a close 7-5 finish to marui/Jackal against Momoshiro/Kaidoh.
So stamina isnt an issue for anybody in Rikkai really.

---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ----------

I wouldn't necessarily say that. While I agree that power is a factor in returning shots, I'd also say that there is some leeway. So for example, even though Krauser's power is higher than Atobe's, Atobe should still be able to return Krauser's shots. It's hard to say how large the gap has to be for someone to get overpowered, but I'd say maybe 2 points or so.

You think Atobe will return Southern Cross? I know Kirihara isnt even near Atobe's level but he was raped by just Hopping Ball.
Nakagauchi is stronger than Atobe yet he couldnt return Southern Cross or handle Krauser's power.

I think the reason Atobe will return Southern Cross would be a combination of his Mental and Technique simply being better than most of his opponents.
Same with all the top tier players.
The reason why you know how good somebody is when they can return something like Big Bang without being phased or moving much.
ie. Tezuka, Yukimura.

Same way even the fodder No.s 11-20 must have been good. Remember Tooyama's Super Volcano Serve was returned easily by Hakamada. Meaning his technique just has to be good.
Or how Taira has to be pretty strong or have great technique as he effortlessly returns Jack Knife with one hand. Although... Mukahi and Amane are amongst other fodder to return it with one hand. So I dont even know how effective Jack Knife is anymore.

 

[Kaoz]

You think Atobe will return Southern Cross? I know Kirihara isnt even near Atobe's level but he was raped by just Hopping Ball.
Nakagauchi is stronger than Atobe yet he couldnt return Southern Cross or handle Krauser's power.

I was referring to normal shots, not HB/SC. Atobe is stronger than normal!Kirihara, who got completely overpowered as you said, but after Kirihara's power went up in DM, he didn't have any trouble with Krauser's shots anymore.

That being said, Atobe seems to be flexible enough by now to avoid HB the same way Nakagauchi did at least, and Insight might help with SC.

 

[Hardy]

Revealed Stats (out of discussion)

Spoiler

Atobe Keigo
Power: 3.5
Speed: 3
Technique: 4
Stamina: 5
Mental: 3

Irie Kanata
Power: 1
Speed: 6
Technique: 6
Stamina: 2
Mental: 7

Kirihara Akaya (Devil Akaya)
Power: 2.5 (4)
Speed: 4 (5)
Technique: 3 (1.5)
Stamina: 3 (0.5)
Mental: 1 (5)

Liliadent Krauser
Power: 5
Speed: 3
Technique: 3
Stamina: 2
Mental: 2

Matsudaira Chikahiko
Power: 4
Speed: 5
Technique: 3
Stamina: 4
Mental: 3

Miyako Shinobu
Power: 5
Speed: 2
Technique: 4
Stamina: 4
Mental: 5

Nakagauchi Sotomichi
Power: 4
Speed: 2.5
Technique: 5
Stamina: 5
Mental: 3

Shiraishi Kuranosuke
Power: 3.5
Speed: 3.5
Technique: 3.5
Stamina: 3.5
Mental: 3.5

Tezuka Kunimitsu
Power: 3.5
Speed: 3
Technique: 5
Stamina: 3
Mental: 4.5

Yamato Yuudai
Power: 2
Speed: 2
Technique: 2
Stamina: 2
Mental: 2

Seigaku

Spoiler

Fuji Shusuke:
Power: 2,5
Speed: 3
Technique: 4,5
Stamina: 3
Mental: 4

Kawamura Takashi
Power: 6
Speed: 2
Technique: 1
Stamina: 3
Mental: 1,5

Inui Sadaharu
Power: 3,5
Speed: 2,5
Technique: 2
Stamina: 3,5
Mental: 6

Shūichirō Oishi
Power: 2
Speed: 2
Technique: 2
Stamina: 3
Mental: 3

Eiji Kikumaru
Power: 2
Speed: 5,5
Technique: 3
Stamina: 4
Mental: 2

Takeshi Momoshiro
Power: 5
Speed: 2,5
Technique: 2,5
Stamina: 3
Mental: 3,5

Kaoru Kaidō
Power: 3
Speed: 3
Technique: 3
Stamina: 6
Mental: 2,5

Ryoma Echizen
Power: 2
Speed: 4,5
Technique: 5
Stamina: 5
Mental: 4

Hyotei

Spoiler

Oshitari Yūshi
Power: 2,5
Speed: 2
Technique: 4
Stamina: 2,5
Mental: 4

Akutagawa Jirō
Power: 2,5
Speed: 4
Technique: 3,5
Stamina: 2,5
Mental: 2

Mukahi Gakuto
Power: 2
Speed: 3,5
Technique: 3,5
Stamina: 1
Mental: 2

Shishido Ryō
Power: 2
Speed: 4
Technique: 2
Stamina: 2,5
Mental: 2,5

Kabaji Munehiro
Power: 5
Speed: 3
Technique: 3,5
Stamina: 4,5
Mental: 1

Ōtori Chōtarō
Power: 3
Speed: 2
Technique: 3
Stamina: 2,5
Mental: 2

Hiyoshi Wakashi
Power: 2,5
Speed: 2,5
Technique: 2
Stamina: 3
Mental: 2,5

Rikkaidai

Spoiler

Yukimura Seiichi
Power: 4
Speed: 3,5
Technique: 6
Stamina: 3
Mental: 5

Sanada Genichirou
Power: 4,5
Speed: 3,5
Technique: 4,5
Stamina: 3,5
Mental: 3,5

Yanagi Renji
Power: 3
Speed: 3
Technique: 3
Stamina: 3
Mental: 6

Yagyuu Hiroshi
Power: 3
Speed: 3
Technique: 3,5
Stamina: 3
Mental: 3,5

Niou Masaharu
Power: 2.5
Speed: 3
Technique: 5
Stamina: 3
Mental: 4.5

Marui Bunta
Power: 2,5
Speed: 3,5
Technique: 4
Stamina: 3
Mental: 3

Jackal Kuwahara
Power: 3
Speed: 4
Technique: 3
Stamina: 6,5
Mental: 2,5

I changed the stats a little bit, see if you like them...

Shitenhouji

Spoiler

Chitose Senri
Power: 3
Speed: 3
Technique: 4
Stamina: 3
Mental: 5

Oshitari Kenya
Power: 2
Speed: 6,5
Technique: 2
Stamina: 3,5
Mental: 2

Ishida Gin
Power: 6
Speed: 2
Technique: 3
Stamina: 3
Mental: 2

Hitouji Yuuji
Power: 2
Speed: 2,5
Technique: 3
Stamina: 2
Mental: 3

Konjiki Koharu
Power: 2
Speed: 2,5
Technique: 3
Stamina: 2
Mental: 6,5

Zaizen Hikaru
Power: Ask Konomi
Speed: Ask Konomi
Technique: Ask Konomi
Stamina: Ask Konomi
Mental: Ask Konomi

Tooyama Kintarou
Power: 6
Speed: 6
Technique: 2
Stamina: 5,5
Mental: 0,5

 

[Ninomiya]

Give Yushi a 2,5 in Speed. He isnt necessarily a slow character.
DROP Ootori's power stat.

In real life, just coz your Serve is fast doesnt mean you have power at all. When your extremely tall, you tend to have an amazing serve.
Andy Roddick is an example. He is tall, amazingly fast serve, but you wouldnt say he is a powerhouse.

Do you realize your saying Ootori is stronger than Shiraishi and Tezuka? He definetely isnt haha.
A fast Serve just means he has an amazing serve. His power is so so. His technique is so so. He just has an amazing serve.

Without his serve, what does he have? He has nothing lol.

---------- Post added at 10:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 AM ----------

In no way is Ishida Gin stronger than Kawamura anymore.
Both of them have a limit of 108 degrees as far as the story is concerned. They are currently equal as far as Konomi has told us.

---------- Post added at 10:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ----------

So Ishida Gin's stat should be the same as Kawamura's.

---------- Post added at 10:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ----------

Chitose needs a 5 in Mental, he can use SKnK. His knowledge on Data is also strong.
He is a tactical player.

Hiyoshi cant have a 2 in Technique.
Do you realize you have Hiyoshi weaker than Ootori and Shishido?
When the storyline states Hiyoshi > Ootori. And Ootori bt Shishido in the tie-breaks.

Hiyoshi was never awful. He respectfully lost to Ryoma 6-4 who went all out.
He lost to Inui/Kaidoh while paired with Mukahi. Had he been paired somebody better than Useless-As-A-Tennis-Player-Mukahi things could have been different.
He can return Tannhauser serve with ease, he no longer has bad stamina, as Atobe had helped him fix.

His stamina should be 3, his Techniques should also be 3.
He is better than Ootori and Shishido haha, the story says so.

Your stats are good for everything else btw though lol.

 

[Hardy]

Give Yushi a 2,5 in Speed. He isnt necessarily a slow character.
DROP Ootori's power stat.

In real life, just coz your Serve is fast doesnt mean you have power at all. When your extremely tall, you tend to have an amazing serve.
Andy Roddick is an example. He is tall, amazingly fast serve, but you wouldnt say he is a powerhouse.

Do you realize your saying Ootori is stronger than Shiraishi and Tezuka? He definetely isnt haha.

That's so true, never thought about comparing Chotarou with Tezuka, already changed them.
Roddick is kinda powered though, but this is no place to discuss real tennis lol.

In no way is Ishida Gin stronger than Kawamura anymore.
Both of them have a limit of 108 degrees as far as the story is concerned. They are currently equal as far as Konomi has told us.

Maybe, but I still think that Gin is stronger that Kintarou. So I should raise Taka and Gin to 6,5 or drop the little caveman's power to 5,5.

Chitose needs a 5 in Mental, he can use SKnK. His knowledge on Data is also strong.
He is a tactical player.

At first I had him at 5, then I changed it to 4,5 because I really don't see him smarter than Tezuka. But yeah, he's a tactical player so his mental is changed.

Hiyoshi cant have a 2 in Technique.
Do you realize you have Hiyoshi weaker than Ootori and Shishido?
When the storyline states Hiyoshi > Ootori. And Ootori bt Shishido in the tie-breaks.

Hiyoshi was never awful. He respectfully lost to Ryoma 6-4 who went all out.
He lost to Inui/Kaidoh while paired with Mukahi. Had he been paired somebody better than Useless-As-A-Tennis-Player-Mukahi things could have been different.
He can return Tannhauser serve with ease, he no longer has bad stamina, as Atobe had helped him fix.

His stamina should be 3, his Techniques should also be 3.
He is better than Ootori and Shishido haha, the story says so.

And he also lost to Kirihara in the newcomer Tournament.

I'm raising his Stamina to 3, but his Tech I don't know... Momo and Kaido have a 2,5 , I don't see him superior (nor equal) in technique to this guys.

I already know he beat Ootori, that doesn't mean that he has better stats...

 

[Kaoz]

I may have missed or forgotten this, but why are we determining mental based on intelligence?

 

[Hardy]

I may have missed or forgotten this, but why are we determining mental based on intelligence?

intelligence seems to be an important factor in Mental. Of course, it's not based only in that (we're not saying that Ryoma is 3 times smarter than Taka). That's why, at first, I had Momoshiro with a somewhat high Mental ( the fact that he overcomes difficulties is named like 3000 times since the first episode of PoT) but it didn't look fair that he had the same Mental as Yuushi.
Although you are right with that, mental in the definition given by you is "How much someone is affected by the opponent's actions." . I'm actually thinking that mental is affected by 2 main facts: how much the player depends on his brains in his gameplay (and how good he is while playing in that way) and how the player makes a way out to the problems in the field.

If we only base in "How much someone is affected by the opponent's actions." then Ryoma should have a 9999, we all know he will win official matches no matter what, and that's not the case. So, at least to me, intelligence IS very important to determinate someone's Mental.

My English is sucking so bad lately, First C isn't enough. Sorry if you didn't understand something I tried to say.

 

[Ninomiya]

I may have missed or forgotten this, but why are we determining mental based on intelligence?

Why shouldnt intelligence factor?
We are not basing it entirely on intelligence either.

---------- Post added at 05:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------

Maybe, but I still think that Gin is stronger that Kintarou. So I should raise Taka and Gin to 6,5 or drop the little caveman's power to 5,5.

Dont drop Tooyama. Tooyama can return Black Jack Knife easily.
It is said that Tooyama's Super Megaton Deluxe... is more dangerous than 108th Hadoukyuu. So why you think Gin is stronger than Tooyama is groundless.

At first I had him at 5, then I changed it to 4,5 because I really don't see him smarter than Tezuka. But yeah, he's a tactical player so his mental is changed.

And he also lost to Kirihara in the newcomer Tournament.

He did well according to Yanagi.

I'm raising his Stamina to 3, but his Tech I don't know... Momo and Kaido have a 2,5 , I don't see him superior (nor equal) in technique to this guys.

I see what you mean. Do you think 3 is too high for Momo and Kaidoh however?

I already know he beat Ootori, that doesn't mean that he has better stats...

Wait what?
He is signficantly stronger than Ootori, but his stats arent better? Im not following.
Hyotei in order of strength: Atobe, Yushi, Akutagawa, Kabaji, Hiyoshi, then the others.

 

[Hardy]

The three power houses have 6 in power now.

Do you really think that Chotarou´s stats that I made are way better than Hiyoshi´s?

Spoiler

Ōtori Chōtarō
Power: 3
Speed: 2
Technique: 3
Stamina: 2,5
Mental: 2

Hiyoshi Wakashi
Power: 2,5
Speed: 2,5
Technique: 2
Stamina: 3
Mental: 2,5

They are kinda balanced with each other, but one is focused in doubles and the other in singles.

 

[Kaoz]

Why shouldnt intelligence factor?
We are not basing it entirely on intelligence either.

Well, why should it be? I haven't seen anything pointing towards it. On the other hand, just recently we got some evidence confirming that it's indeed linked to how well someone handles psychological pressure (Kurobe's comment about having to increase Atobe's mental stat after seeing his performance against Ochi).

 

[Ninomiya]

Well, why should it be? I haven't seen anything pointing towards it. On the other hand, just recently we got some evidence confirming that it's indeed linked to how well someone handles psychological pressure (Kurobe's comment about having to increase Atobe's mental stat after seeing his performance against Ochi).

But wait, so your saying a player who is really intelligent could have a low Mental?
I dont see how you can prove they are not related.

 

[Kaoz]

But wait, so your saying a player who is really intelligent could have a low Mental?
I dont see how you can prove they are not related.

Why not? An intelligent person can cave in under pressure and a less intelligent one may be able to handle it better.

Also you're the one who's claiming something that's not supported by the manga, so I believe it's on you to show why it should be a major factor.

 

[Ninomiya]

Why not? An intelligent person can cave in under pressure and a less intelligent one may be able to handle it better.

Also you're the one who's claiming something that's not supported by the manga, so I believe it's on you to show why it should be a major factor.

Show me where a player who is known to be intelligent has caved in under pressure.

 

[Kaoz]

Show me where a player who is known to be intelligent has caved in under pressure.

Yanagi was affected by Inui's setup and started double guessing himself. Same thing the other way around during the nationals, neither immediately shrugged it off like Tezuka did with Rai. Chitose's Saiki couldn't predict Abare Dama because he was scared of it and he also looked pretty shocked when Tezuka broke the absolute prediction and achieved Saiki. If you count Niou as intelligent, Hoshi Hanabi is another example. Yanagi against Mitsuya before Inui talked sense into him.

On the flipside you have guys like Kawamura who are never said to be intelligent, but will go on no matter what. For that matter, Tezuka isn't known for being super intelligent either (at least not on Inui level).