Fantasy Suzaku vs Irene Belserion

[Axiomus]

Both were not at top condition, Suzaku just cut then when they were not at their best, plus cloth armor forsakes all defense for offense, difference is Selene is just a dragon, and Acno is a Magic Dragon. I don’t take what Selene says seriously when her wounds disappeared when going back into a human form, none of the dragons showed that.

So? The only reason they weren't on top condition is because they took Ls from fodder. Suzaku would never get tired fighting opponents that weak.

Suzaku broke Erza's sword, so he broke her offense anyways. Not that it matters, because he would break all her other armors too. Anything that hits harder than Jupiter would break Erza's adamantine armour, which is her best defense. Erza thought that defense is useless when going up against someone as strong as Laxus because he'll just break her armours. Suzaku hits way harder than Laxus.

Doesn't matter what Selene's wounds are doing tbh. She flat out said that he was stronger in human form. Even if Selene can heal her wounds, and draw out the fight, he's still stronger than her human form. The fact that Suzaku is anywhere close to Selene in human form already puts him leagues above everyone else.

 

[WoWfan]

fodder who use a technique that is hax worthy and annoying, Suzaku did not fight them so he wouldn't know, offense, not defense which is the opposite of what it does, Nakagami and he is finished, it dispels magic, again, not peak condition. not really since Natsu can take out a slightly weakened Dragon God in Dragon Form, and Gajeel with Brandish power staggered it.

 

[Brandish μ]

How was it not a real fight? It would be one thing if it was an outlier, and he's not able to replicate this feat. But he can. He oneshotted Natsu right afterwards, which puts consistency to what he did to Erza. Then he went on to cut some of Selene's attacks and dealt significant damage to Selene's human form, which is simply more impressive than oneshotting Erza. By all rights, stomping Erza was the LEAST impressive thing he did that day. He moved on to greater and better things.

Just keep this in mind when Erza actually fights Suzaku. Or Jellal actually fights Suzaku. Or anyone actually fights Suzaku. Natsu and Erza were not ready to engage someone that strong. They didn't notice his magic power or anything, but they weren't capable of handling him then and there in that situation.

I concede that I'm not relying on feats as much as I would like to, to be confident in my view of Suzaku, but I'm deferring to portrayal and common sense to save myself the trouble.

No, Acno can oneshot anybody if he wants to. He's fast enough to blitz and strong enough to gut. He just never made a serious effort to hit Irene, so she was able to dodge out of his explosion.

If so, then there are no feats gained against Acnologia.

There's no reason why someone of Irene's level can't react and dual Acnologia briefly, which was shown, when Acnologia isn't bloodlusted. But Acnologia did try, was evaded, then sent away for his troubles. We either accept a little bit of portrayal here and there, or hug on to extreme feats.

No it doesn't, because Selene tells us that Suzaku is superior to her human form. So everything he showed thus far still stands. It just means there's a large gap between a God Dragon's human form and their dragon form. Selene could have done that to anybody she wanted to.

It does dehype Suzaku when you consider the hype and portrayal he was given at the time, and the hype to Georg. Hype is like momentum, Selene saved it somewhat with her comments. Then again, you need to believe in Selene, someone who has Machiavellian traits. Some of her comments contradicted each other, particularly the ones about how strong/helpful people like Suzaku are.

 

[Axiomus]

Just keep this in mind when Erza actually fights Suzaku. Or Jellal actually fights Suzaku. Or anyone actually fights Suzaku. Natsu and Erza were not ready to engage someone that strong. They didn't notice his magic power or anything, but they weren't capable of handling him then and there in that situation.

I concede that I'm not relying on feats as much as I would like to, to be confident in my view of Suzaku, but I'm deferring to portrayal and common sense to save myself the trouble.

If Erza actually fights Suzaku.
If Jellal actually fights Suzaku.
If Suzaku actually loses.

We don't know how Suzaku goes down. For all we know, Selene doesn't get defeated this arc, and Suzaku is the final boss. It may take DF Natsu to take him down. He might get taken down by the 6th god dragon. For all we know, Suzaku defects to Fairy Tail because he don't like what Selene is doing, and carries Natsu against Selene. When Suzaku finally goes down, then we re-evaluate his position. But as things current stands, there's no reason not to take his feats against Natsu and Erza at face value.

If so, then there are no feats gained against Acnologia.

There's no reason why someone of Irene's level can't react and dual Acnologia briefly, which was shown, when Acnologia isn't bloodlusted. But Acnologia did try, was evaded, then sent away for his troubles. We either accept a little bit of portrayal here and there, or hug on to extreme feats.

Acnologia wasn't trying though. If he was trying, he'd just run up to her and rip her apart.

It does dehype Suzaku when you consider the hype and portrayal he was given at the time, and the hype to Georg. Hype is like momentum, Selene saved it somewhat with her comments. Then again, you need to believe in Selene, someone who has Machiavellian traits. Some of her comments contradicted each other, particularly the ones about how strong/helpful people like Suzaku are.

Except nothing Selene did or said contradicts anything Suzaku did. We just find out that Selene's dragon form is much stronger than her human form.
The only argument here is whether or not we should trust Selene's evaluation at face value. But here's the thing, Selene has no reason to lie about how strong Suzaku was. She was going to get what she wanted anyways. Telling Suzaku that he was stronger than her human form doesn't help further her cause.

Also, think about why Selene took up an interest in Natsu in the context of her recent explaination. Selene was interested in Natsu because of what he did to Aldoron. She was probably planning to use him to fight the other god dragons. If Selene is moving forward with Suzaku, doesn't that mean she's finding him as impressive as she thought DF Natsu was going to be?

 

[Brandish μ]

Also, think about why Selene took up an interest in Natsu in the context of her recent explaination. Selene was interested in Natsu because of what he did to Aldoron. She was probably planning to use him to fight the other god dragons. If Selene is moving forward with Suzaku, doesn't that mean she's finding him as impressive as she thought DF Natsu was going to be?

I think this is fairly possible. Suzaku does have more plot relevance (with him absorbing Selene's son's powers), I tend to think he sides with FT against Selene... but it could her way of attracting Natsu to each DG by use of a Diabolos rivalry of sorts.

If Natsu can defeat a nerfed Aldoron, that might be more impressive than defeating a human Selene, given the established gap.

 

[WoWfan]

I think this is fairly possible. Suzaku does have more plot relevance (with him absorbing Selene's son's powers), I tend to think he sides with FT against Selene... but it could her way of attracting Natsu to each DG by use of a Diabolos rivalry of sorts.

If Natsu can defeat a nerfed Aldoron, that might be more impressive than defeating a human Selene, given the established gap.

And considering that Aldoron while nerfed is still close to his original power, so if Natsu was serious he would be able to put up more of a fight against Suzaku.

 

[Ramen]

Suzaku wins.

 

[grey matter]

Irene did have more intent, given that she had U1 up her sleeve. She wasn't stumbled upon by a random Acnologia, it was kinda the opposite. So it's reasonable that she performed well. Acno reacted with force but didn't touch Irene. I can concede he didn't have murderous intent like he did with God Serena.

August would've been oneshotted if Acno wanted to, in that moment. But if he was going after Acno and had the confidence to do so, I don't think he gets oneshotted.

Let me ask you something. Serious human Acno vs serious Eileen. What happens?

For me, Eileen being serious or not is completely irrelevant here if Acno is serious. It's an instant one shot. She can have U1 or whatever up her sleeve, perp'd etc. At the end of the day, Acno is too fast for her to comprehend and he has enough attack power to tear her in half.
Human Eileen's stats are moreso comparable to x792 Erza. Erza, even after Wendy went down, was fighting well against human Eileen (this time Eileen was angry AF, so "Eileen was jobbing" isn't applicable). Are you telling me that serious human Acno wouldn't be one shot x792 Erza tiers?

And no, August doesn't have the confidence to do so cause he knows he's an insect to Acno. He literally shat his pants when Serena got one shot. Even if he had confidence and planned something, nothing would change, he'd still get one shot
Eileen's only saving grace was Acno being in jobbing mode and didn't realize she was a DS, basically plot armour. The same reason Jellal also didn't get one shot.

This is kind of my point.

Erza and Natsu were not "protect my guild" serious. It's similar to calling Acno playful. In the sense he didn't "Serena" Irene.

That doesn't change their durability though. E
And Suzaku wasn't even exerting himself that much. It was a swift and casual one shot. You could see later on, Suzaku actually powering up against Selene.

Also Natsu was furious that Suzaku cut down Erza badly, so he indeed had the 'intent'. Natsu was 100% serious. And nothing changed, Suzaku still one shotted him

And it's 100% not similar to Acno being playful.
There is a difference between
- being playful. Eg: Acno against Jellal/Eileen
- being serious. Eg: Erza against Ajeel/Neinhart/Laxus, Natsu against Jacob/Jackal/Aldoron
- being on POF. Eg: Natsu DF against Mard/savage flames against Zeref, Erza without sense/broken bones

If you want to count POF BS, that's an entirely difference scenario. Natsu with POF is above even FH Zeref, before whom August/Eileen are no diff materials. We're not discussing POF here
Being serious is the actual power of the MCs.

We saw Selene legit oneshot Georg, which undoes some of Suzaku's portrayal from the Natsu/Erza oneshot.

No it doesn't.
Because it was explained away as dragon Selene >>>> human Selene, and that Suzaku > human Selene.

Even if this wasn't the case, portrayal from Natsu/Erza one shot still stands because he still had the pure attack power to one shot both of them, and speed which they couldn't react to.

- Suzaku and the knights are high tier wizards of his continent, maybe the top tier. They were below Georg.
- Suzaku is (minimum) one tier above the other 3 in Diabolos. The weakest of them was easily defeated by Laxus, but not oneshotted... the other two held their own against Mira and Elfman.
- Kiria did not help portray Suzaku well, but that could be her personality.
- Suzaku defeated human Selene. The conflict here is that Selene was the one to admit it, there's a reasonable possibility that she is lying.
- Erza's statement about Suzaku's power being beyond reason, which was followed by a statement about taking Diabolos down.

He's certainly strong, but we're not talking mind altering portrayal. I think he'll end up developing more strength though.

- ok
- Suzaku would one shot everyone there, including Laxus (he isn't as durable as Erza).
- Kiria went straight to Selene after George was one shot lol
- I don't see why Selene would lie in this instance, but a retcon is certainly possible considering who's the author. But regardless, he had the attack power to significantly injure her, even if Selene is lying and in reality threw the fight. None of the x792 characters can even scratch a human Acno tier if they decide to stay put and allow free hits.
- Can't comment on that since I'm taking a break from the series. But I guess it went around something like "This dude is powerful beyond reason. But if they cross us, we will take them down". This is just typical Erza, I don't see any conflict here

*****************************************

And finally, I wonder. Why are any of this relevant to Suzaku vs Eileen?

These are facts:
1. Suzaku one shotted Natsu and Erza within a span of seconds. Gray recognized the massive difference in PL and decided that there is nothing to do there except run. Neither August nor Eileen could even dream of replicating this against a MUCH weaker Natsu and Erza (x792 versions), regardless of preparation.
2. Suzaku dealt significant damage to human Selene.
- Best case scenario for Suzaku: Selene is telling the truth and there won't be any retcons. This puts Suzaku at a level where he convincingly one shots Eileen. Should really be no question here
- Worst case scenario for Suzaku: Selene jobbed and is lying. In which case, he still demonstrated attack power to deal good damage against a human Acno tier as if they were caught off guard. Not a single character in x792 has demonstrated such a high attack power. At the very least it puts him at a level where he can low diff August/Eileen instead of one shot range

How does Eileen take this?
Because Suzaku will eventually lose? Yea to a much stronger version of good guys than what Spriggans faced, who will likely get a powerup soon as well. The idea clearly is to get some of the good guys to a level where they can put resistance against at least human DGs

This is like arguing Serena is Bluenote tier because both were portrayed as Gildarts tiers. Or Torafusa with Bradman since Gajeel faced them

The idea of power creep is very simple and crystal clear here.
In x792, you could do nothing except run from human or dragon Acno. Or hope that he'd be kind enough to job. Even the thought of facing them was suicide.
In x793, you are facing 5 Acno tiers, you have to face them and beat them, no running here. You can't have DGs in nerfed form (Merc), or being retarded to nerf themselves (Aldoron) every time. Eventually some characters were bound to be strong enough to at least be a threat to human Anco tiers, or else the spinoff is moot.

I simply don't get the logic here

 

[WoWfan]

Well Serious Human Acno went and attacked and Irene managed to dodge, and Irene attacked him and he couldn't even dodge and blown back by the attack, with U1 left Acno somewhere out in the ocean, so there is clear closeness to their stats in that regard

 

[Sevently]

Let me ask you something. Serious human Acno vs serious Eileen. What happens?

For me, Eileen being serious or not is completely irrelevant here if Acno is serious. It's an instant one shot. She can have U1 or whatever up her sleeve, perp'd etc. At the end of the day, Acno is too fast for her to comprehend and he has enough attack power to tear her in half.
Human Eileen's stats are moreso comparable to x792 Erza. Erza, even after Wendy went down, was fighting well against human Eileen (this time Eileen was angry AF, so "Eileen was jobbing" isn't applicable). Are you telling me that serious human Acno wouldn't be one shot x792 Erza tiers?

And no, August doesn't have the confidence to do so cause he knows he's an insect to Acno. He literally shat his pants when Serena got one shot. Even if he had confidence and planned something, nothing would change, he'd still get one shot
Eileen's only saving grace was Acno being in jobbing mode and didn't realize she was a DS, basically plot armour. The same reason Jellal also didn't get one shot.



That doesn't change their durability though. E
And Suzaku wasn't even exerting himself that much. It was a swift and casual one shot. You could see later on, Suzaku actually powering up against Selene.

Also Natsu was furious that Suzaku cut down Erza badly, so he indeed had the 'intent'. Natsu was 100% serious. And nothing changed, Suzaku still one shotted him

And it's 100% not similar to Acno being playful.
There is a difference between
- being playful. Eg: Acno against Jellal/Eileen
- being serious. Eg: Erza against Ajeel/Neinhart/Laxus, Natsu against Jacob/Jackal/Aldoron
- being on POF. Eg: Natsu DF against Mard/savage flames against Zeref, Erza without sense/broken bones

If you want to count POF BS, that's an entirely difference scenario. Natsu with POF is above even FH Zeref, before whom August/Eileen are no diff materials. We're not discussing POF here
Being serious is the actual power of the MCs.



No it doesn't.
Because it was explained away as dragon Selene >>>> human Selene, and that Suzaku > human Selene.

Even if this wasn't the case, portrayal from Natsu/Erza one shot still stands because he still had the pure attack power to one shot both of them, and speed which they couldn't react to.


- ok
- Suzaku would one shot everyone there, including Laxus (he isn't as durable as Erza).
- Kiria went straight to Selene after George was one shot lol
- I don't see why Selene would lie in this instance, but a retcon is certainly possible considering who's the author. But regardless, he had the attack power to significantly injure her, even if Selene is lying and in reality threw the fight. None of the x792 characters can even scratch a human Acno tier if they decide to stay put and allow free hits.
- Can't comment on that since I'm taking a break from the series. But I guess it went around something like "This dude is powerful beyond reason. But if they cross us, we will take them down". This is just typical Erza, I don't see any conflict here

*****************************************

And finally, I wonder. Why are any of this relevant to Suzaku vs Eileen?

These are facts:
1. Suzaku one shotted Natsu and Erza within a span of seconds. Gray recognized the massive difference in PL and decided that there is nothing to do there except run. Neither August nor Eileen could even dream of replicating this against a MUCH weaker Natsu and Erza (x792 versions), regardless of preparation.
2. Suzaku dealt significant damage to human Selene.
- Best case scenario for Suzaku: Selene is telling the truth and there won't be any retcons. This puts Suzaku at a level where he convincingly one shots Eileen. Should really be no question here
- Worst case scenario for Suzaku: Selene jobbed and is lying. In which case, he still demonstrated attack power to deal good damage against a human Acno tier as if they were caught off guard. Not a single character in x792 has demonstrated such a high attack power. At the very least it puts him at a level where he can low diff August/Eileen instead of one shot range

How does Eileen take this?
Because Suzaku will eventually lose? Yea to a much stronger version of good guys than what Spriggans faced, who will likely get a powerup soon as well. The idea clearly is to get some of the good guys to a level where they can put resistance against at least human DGs

This is like arguing Serena is Bluenote tier because both were portrayed as Gildarts tiers. Or Torafusa with Bradman since Gajeel faced them

The idea of power creep is very simple and crystal clear here.
In x792, you could do nothing except run from human or dragon Acno. Or hope that he'd be kind enough to job. Even the thought of facing them was suicide.
In x793, you are facing 5 Acno tiers, you have to face them and beat them, no running here. You can't have DGs in nerfed form (Merc), or being retarded to nerf themselves (Aldoron) every time. Eventually some characters were bound to be strong enough to at least be a threat to human Anco tiers, or else the spinoff is moot.

I simply don't get the logic here

Imagine a BDSK is defeated by Wendy with 50 or 100% Irene power, would you still say that they are stronger than Irene & August?

 

[grey matter]

Imagine a BDSK is defeated by Wendy with 50 or 100% Irene power, would you still say that they are stronger than Irene & August?

So many IFs with zero acknowledgement of current feats and statements. The absolute state of Eileen defenders

I'll comment on that if/when it happens. IT depends on the execution.
But yes, if Wendy with 50% or 100% Eileen power solo a BDSK clean, who isn't some fodder with hax (like Doom seed), then yea.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Let me ask you something. Serious human Acno vs serious Eileen. What happens?

For me, Eileen being serious or not is completely irrelevant here if Acno is serious. It's an instant one shot. She can have U1 or whatever up her sleeve, perp'd etc. At the end of the day, Acno is too fast for her to comprehend and he has enough attack power to tear her in half.
Human Eileen's stats are moreso comparable to x792 Erza. Erza, even after Wendy went down, was fighting well against human Eileen (this time Eileen was angry AF, so "Eileen was jobbing" isn't applicable). Are you telling me that serious human Acno wouldn't be one shot x792 Erza tiers?

And no, August doesn't have the confidence to do so cause he knows he's an insect to Acno. He literally shat his pants when Serena got one shot. Even if he had confidence and planned something, nothing would change, he'd still get one shot
Eileen's only saving grace was Acno being in jobbing mode and didn't realize she was a DS, basically plot armour. The same reason Jellal also didn't get one shot.



That doesn't change their durability though. E
And Suzaku wasn't even exerting himself that much. It was a swift and casual one shot. You could see later on, Suzaku actually powering up against Selene.

Also Natsu was furious that Suzaku cut down Erza badly, so he indeed had the 'intent'. Natsu was 100% serious. And nothing changed, Suzaku still one shotted him

And it's 100% not similar to Acno being playful.
There is a difference between
- being playful. Eg: Acno against Jellal/Eileen
- being serious. Eg: Erza against Ajeel/Neinhart/Laxus, Natsu against Jacob/Jackal/Aldoron
- being on POF. Eg: Natsu DF against Mard/savage flames against Zeref, Erza without sense/broken bones

If you want to count POF BS, that's an entirely difference scenario. Natsu with POF is above even FH Zeref, before whom August/Eileen are no diff materials. We're not discussing POF here
Being serious is the actual power of the MCs.



No it doesn't.
Because it was explained away as dragon Selene >>>> human Selene, and that Suzaku > human Selene.

Even if this wasn't the case, portrayal from Natsu/Erza one shot still stands because he still had the pure attack power to one shot both of them, and speed which they couldn't react to.


- ok
- Suzaku would one shot everyone there, including Laxus (he isn't as durable as Erza).
- Kiria went straight to Selene after George was one shot lol
- I don't see why Selene would lie in this instance, but a retcon is certainly possible considering who's the author. But regardless, he had the attack power to significantly injure her, even if Selene is lying and in reality threw the fight. None of the x792 characters can even scratch a human Acno tier if they decide to stay put and allow free hits.
- Can't comment on that since I'm taking a break from the series. But I guess it went around something like "This dude is powerful beyond reason. But if they cross us, we will take them down". This is just typical Erza, I don't see any conflict here

*****************************************

And finally, I wonder. Why are any of this relevant to Suzaku vs Eileen?

These are facts:
1. Suzaku one shotted Natsu and Erza within a span of seconds. Gray recognized the massive difference in PL and decided that there is nothing to do there except run. Neither August nor Eileen could even dream of replicating this against a MUCH weaker Natsu and Erza (x792 versions), regardless of preparation.
2. Suzaku dealt significant damage to human Selene.
- Best case scenario for Suzaku: Selene is telling the truth and there won't be any retcons. This puts Suzaku at a level where he convincingly one shots Eileen. Should really be no question here
- Worst case scenario for Suzaku: Selene jobbed and is lying. In which case, he still demonstrated attack power to deal good damage against a human Acno tier as if they were caught off guard. Not a single character in x792 has demonstrated such a high attack power. At the very least it puts him at a level where he can low diff August/Eileen instead of one shot range

How does Eileen take this?
Because Suzaku will eventually lose? Yea to a much stronger version of good guys than what Spriggans faced, who will likely get a powerup soon as well. The idea clearly is to get some of the good guys to a level where they can put resistance against at least human DGs

This is like arguing Serena is Bluenote tier because both were portrayed as Gildarts tiers. Or Torafusa with Bradman since Gajeel faced them

The idea of power creep is very simple and crystal clear here.
In x792, you could do nothing except run from human or dragon Acno. Or hope that he'd be kind enough to job. Even the thought of facing them was suicide.
In x793, you are facing 5 Acno tiers, you have to face them and beat them, no running here. You can't have DGs in nerfed form (Merc), or being retarded to nerf themselves (Aldoron) every time. Eventually some characters were bound to be strong enough to at least be a threat to human Anco tiers, or else the spinoff is moot.

I simply don't get the logic here

facts.

answer.

So many IFs with zero acknowledgement of current feats and statements. The absolute state of Eileen defenders

I'll comment on that if/when it happens. IT depends on the execution.
But yes, if Wendy with 50% or 100% Eileen power solo a BDSK clean, who isn't some fodder with hax (like Doom seed), then yea.

Won't ever happen I think.

Irene lost all of her power.

she'll never have her own power again.

if she inhabits a body which is OP then it won't be her power but from the one she posseses.

 

[WoWfan]

yet Doom Seed is still a part of Aldoron's power afterall.

That would mean that Wendy's lost her trump card which if she beats a BDSK on her own, that would change.

 

[grey matter]

Won't ever happen I think.

Irene lost all of her power.

she'll never have her own power again.

if she inhabits a body which is OP then it won't be her power but from the one she posseses.

Logically yea, she used up all her residue. But this is Mashima, so...... I've seen Mashima do more retarded shit, so I wouldn't put it past him

 

[Demon Hunter]

Logically yea, she used up all her residue. But this is Mashima, so...... I've seen Mashima do more retarded shit, so I wouldn't put it past him

Hiro will pull her corpse out of her grave, saying how she is still active because she is a dragon which would completely butcher the story of GMG dragons graveyard

 

[WoWfan]

Well this sequel has been one big inconsistency after another for the most part Unless they can be explained away (though it would be a massive assumption)

 

[sharkai]

Let me ask you something. Serious human Acno vs serious Eileen. What happens?

may i ask what will happen if serious EIleen human Selene come across serious human acno?

 

[Hexbend]

may i ask what will happen if serious EIleen human Selene come across serious human acno?

They'd basically have an even match up until Acno's magic resistance comes into play so high-extreme diff for either

Can't say the same for Irene sooooo what was the point of switching around the question for him?

 

[WoWfan]

Acno would very likely take down Selene knowing she's a dragon.

 

[Axiomus]

I think this is fairly possible. Suzaku does have more plot relevance (with him absorbing Selene's son's powers), I tend to think he sides with FT against Selene... but it could her way of attracting Natsu to each DG by use of a Diabolos rivalry of sorts.

If Natsu can defeat a nerfed Aldoron, that might be more impressive than defeating a human Selene, given the established gap.

Maybe, but Natsu is going after each of the other god dragons because of the 100YQ....And Selene likely knows this. So the fact she's moving forward with Diabolos after seeing Suzaku still tells us that Suzaku met whatever expectations Selene was putting on Natsu.

That's a bit of a gray area. Mercphobia's words indicated that Selene was simply stronger in terms of MP, but Natsu managed to damage Aldoron's dragon form. Maybe DF Natsu can beat Suzaku, but again Suzaku is still meeting whatever expectation Selene was putting on Natsu. I think it's a safe bet to place Suzaku at least near the level of DF Natsu, even if DF Natsu is stronger.