Special Move Technique vs. Technique

[Fuji Shusuke]

OK, so Pinnacle of Perfection beats all. What would happen if two people with PoP verse each other in singles?

 

[Kaoz]

As TnK releases all of the user's potential (iirc it was described that way), the one with greater potential would win.

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

Let's revive an old thread.
Next Discussion:
Sanada's Invade like Fire vs. Fuji's Kirin Otoshi

 

[FrostyMouse]

It has been a while...

I think Kirin Otoshi takes this rather clearly, but Sanada just uses Rai and hits a winner.

 

[LetalHawk]

Fuji can counter Sanada's Ka with Kirin Otoshi, sure, but then Sanada teleports, does Rai and wins.

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

Well, when Kirihara used Fire on Fuji, the Higuma Otoshi Barely managed to return it and with a broken gut. With Kirin Otoshi, will the gut break?

 

[Surprise]

the principle behind tsubame gaeshi is sound, if the other guy hits a ball with a lot of topspin the ball rolls towards you, and by slicing it you can take advantage of this to produce more slice than is normally possible, however realistically achieving no bounce is impossible, and after the ball has bounced on your side the rpm's of the ball have significantly dropped. If you are at the net and slice a high topspin ball it is possible to get an absurdly low bounce

 

[FrostyMouse]

Well, when Kirihara used Fire on Fuji, the Higuma Otoshi Barely managed to return it and with a broken gut. With Kirin Otoshi, will the gut break?

No, and we've proved this before. We came to the conclusion that one way to break Higuma Otoshi to have a power of at least 3.5, which Shiraishi has. However, Kirin Otoshi stands firm and hits a winner off of Shiraishi. That alone is your answer.

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

I bored so...

If TZ is used first, Tezuka's Tezuka Zone vs Echizen's COOL Drive.

 

[LetalHawk]

I bored so...

If TZ is used first, Tezuka's Tezuka Zone vs Echizen's COOL Drive.

If TZ is used, then Cool Drive should go to Tezuka, however, unless Echizen's Cool Drive has a significant amount of counterspin the Cool Drive will win, but if Yukimura retruned it no oroblem, tezuka will do the same with TZ.

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

If we assume the ball will return to Tezuka, will the spin from Cool Drive cause the ball to go towards his face?

 

[Phantron]

TZ doesn't seem to affect the ball in the net/backcourt axis. For example we see Tezuka's own drop shot counters his own TZ. Cool Drive appears to work similarly as a dropshot, as a shot that basically doesn't bounce needs to drop close to the net or someone can just volley it back.

 

[TheShiraishi]

Well, Yukimura returned the Cool Drive easily from the base line. (Was this like Itsuki's Sinker shot against Fuji's Tsubame Gaeshi?) Assuming Tezuka was at the baseline, he would also be able to return the shot.

But I see you mean when Tezuka and Echizen are both close to the net... I'd say he could just Hyakuren the shot.

 

[Phantron]

Cool Drive is irregular bounce which usually requires something special to hit it. Of course Yukimura can hit it just because he's Yukimura but Tezuka can't unconditionally returns shots by just invoking his name.

Hyakuren still can't return what you can't hit. Irregular bounces are drawn in a way so that you don't really see much baseline-baseline axis movement so the effect of TZone would be minimal. I guess it depends on whether irregular really means 'random' or 'not easily predicted'. If it's random bounce then he can't even predict where it'll go with TZone. If it's just hard to predict (the mountain top court has irregular bounces too but can be predicted with experience) then he'd be able to figure it out.

Note that TZone is useless if you can't predict where the ball is going, i.e. if you pull it to the right and it went right, then you don't get the intended outcome (though it would be better, because you now you get TPhantom effect, but for whatever reason this has never happened). In fact, if you can predict where the enemy is hitting so well, shouldn't you just move the ball to the right when they hit to the right corner and get a free point? I guess there's an implication that you must predict correct, i.e. pull ball to the right when you predicted hitting to left, even though being wrong, in this case, is actually even better.

 

[Kaoz]

Note that TZone is useless if you can't predict where the ball is going, i.e. if you pull it to the right and it went right, then you don't get the intended outcome (though it would be better, because you now you get TPhantom effect, but for whatever reason this has never happened). In fact, if you can predict where the enemy is hitting so well, shouldn't you just move the ball to the right when they hit to the right corner and get a free point? I guess there's an implication that you must predict correct, i.e. pull ball to the right when you predicted hitting to left, even though being wrong, in this case, is actually even better.

As much as I hate to post these lines here, Tezuka doesn't need to predict anything at all for TZone to work. I know I wrote otherwise a few months ago, but got rather recently pointed towards this page, where it basically says that TZone is just some sort of super spin that halves the spin of whatever shot the opponent uses next, and as a result the shot gets somehow pulled inwards.

Probably should have posted this sooner somewhere but oh well.

 

[Hardy]

As much as I hate to post these lines here, Tezuka doesn't need to predict anything at all for TZone to work. I know I wrote otherwise a few months ago, but got rather recently pointed towards this page, where it basically says that TZone is just some sort of super spin that halves the spin of whatever shot the opponent uses next, and as a result the shot gets somehow pulled inwards.

Probably should have posted this sooner somewhere but oh well.

It actually makes no sense. If I hit the ball COMPLETELY OUT, then the TZ shouldn't work (or he would pull the ball inwards and make it hit the line or something like that).

 

[Kaoz]

It actually makes no sense. If I hit the ball COMPLETELY OUT, then the TZ shouldn't work (or he would pulled the ball inwards and make it hit the line or something like that).

According to that explanation, it simply shouldn't work on out balls. Kaidou's shots were still affected though in the elimination matches, although you could argue that he just put a stronger spin on the zone there.

To be honest, the prediction explanation probably makes much more "sense", but what can we do?

 

[Hardy]

So, if someone forces Tezuka to hit the ball to the middle, TZ shouldn't work?

Prediction made this way more easy lol.

Wait, IIRC, didn't someone try to make a drop against Tezuka and he pulled the ball towards him?

 

[Kaoz]

So, if someone forces Tezuka to hit the ball to the middle, TZ shouldn't work?

It doesn't matter what place Tezuka hits to, he can apparently apply the zone spin regardless of shot type (e.g. he put it on the ball when he returned Hametsu e no Rondo). And if the opponent hits down the middle anyway, there's no need for a zone to change the ball's course since Tezuka stands at the center mark anyways.

Wait, IIRC, didn't someone try to make a drop against Tezuka and he pulled the ball towards him?

I do not recall any instance of that happening when the zone was out, might be wrong though.

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

Ok, let me try to make sense of this. If the spin halving thing is true, then...

Tezuka puts a strong sidespin onto the ball in advance to draw the ball in. The opponent hits it but due to the TZ spin, they can only put half of the usual spin onto the ball since the opponent's spin cancels out the TZ spin. However, the ball is drawn in towards Tezuka because when the ball is on the opponent's racquet, the ball digs into the gut and the spin pushes onto the strings to force the shot in the direction of the spin.

Ok the prediction explanation worked much better ._.

---------- Post added at 07:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 AM ----------

BTW, during Tezuka!Niou match vs Fuji, was Niou able to use TZ on Houou Gaeshi?